Jacket for men necessary in Paris

My husband has never taken a jacket to Paris and we eat in nice places. If you are going to a Michelin rated dining place he will need a jacket but for most restaurants a nice shirt or sweater has been sufficient. We like nice food and nice places but choose not to dress up and "dine" when we are on vacation and we have had some truely memorable meals. Have fun in one of my favotire cities.

ditto

You do not need a jacket for any of the cafes or even the nicer medium priced restaurants. But when in Rome... er Paris.. do as the Parisians do. Many Parisian men will where a jacket when they go out to dinner. Jeans are fine but a jacket is a nice touch. So you don't need to but why not make every night or at least several nights in Paris seem like a special occasion and where the jacket? How often do you get to dine in Paris??? And packing the jacket does not need to be a big deal, turn it inside out, fold it along the main back seam, then fold it in half. It will hardly wrinkle..may not wrinkle at all if you add some tissue paper.

I agree, you don't need a jacket to dine in Paris, unless you age dining in a Michelin rated restaurant or you are a part of the Nieman Marcus crowd.

In all my trips to Europe, the only time I wore a jacket was in February when someone told me that I needed one for lunch at Altitude 95. I wore a jacket and turtleneck, but didn't really need one from looking at others. Maybe it got me a window seat.

Not necessary - but what was going to wear in the evenings?? Most likely he will need a jackey or sweater of some sort anyway - so he can be a big boy and take a jacket.

Not necessaary in casual places but he will feel more comfortable in one if you go someplace nicer (not suit and tie but some sort of jacket - even leather and a decent shirt or nice sweater with slacks - not jeans).

Also - wn are you going - and what type of jacket will he need just bsed on the weather?

Wearing a jacket is not a sign of being a "big boy". How he conducts himself with others and how well he treats his partner are much better indicators of whether or not he is a "big boy". Luckily my "big boy" passes the test nicely and doesn't have to wear a jacket on vacation, when he has to wear one to work every day, to prove it.

CHINOS??? OMG, ROTFLMAO!!!

Who writes this drivel, anyway?

I've been traveling to/living in France for 30+ years and have never ONCE seen a French man I know wearing a pair of Chinos. That's just too funny!

A jacket isn't necessary, either. Most well-dressed French men will wear a nice shirt or classy sweater at all but the stuffiest of restaurants. It's not the actual clothing items that count, but the ability to wear clothes with style and panache. Good-quality items - nice shoes, a cashmere sweater, a tailored shirt - those count for way more than "putting on a tie and jacket."

StCirq, i'm afraid i have to say i know of one frenman wearing chinos (sometimes) : my father - but he is over 70 and wears them for gardening only !

If he doesn't wear them at home then any jacket he possesses is bound to be out of the ark and as such will look a great deal trampier than what he'd normally wear. I always think a jacket is good practise for a man in the evening, it makes an outfit look far more polished. A brilliant example of this is a t-shirt with skinny jeans worn during the day, the addition of a nipped in waist, short cut black jacket add edge and makes the outfit suitable for the evening.

There's no point in you trying to look like a couple of locals, it quite simply isn't going to happen. I suppose your question is asking if it's necessary, and other people have answered it really in saying that if it's somewhere smart then yes, but if it's a casual cafe/bistro then you can pretty much wear what you want!

Hi GP,

It's not de rigeur, but makes a good impression.

He doesn't have to pack the jacket, he can wear it.

It's always easier to take a jacket off if it is not appropriate than to put one on if you don't have it.


I won't mention that a gentlemen always wears a jacket when dining in public.

To answer your original question, NO. Your husband does NOT NEED to pack a blazer for dinners. I did not wear a jacket in Paris and did not feel out of place. I am a gentleman. I wear nice dress shirts or nice sweater and slacks. We had a window seat at Jules Verne for lunch and I did not have a jacket.

Thanks to all who replied. We're going in early May. I'd rather not pack it so if he decides to take one, he'll have to wear it! So no chinos, huh?? Looks like Paris for Dummies is off track!

Americans will wear chinos or dockers, not the Europeans. There is nothing wrong with wearing chinos either. If you are an American and tourist that is what you are, be it and be proud, but not ugly and loud.

If that book told you that most diners will be wearing chinos, I would trash the book. You really have to take care with some of the advice offered by so-called experts! As I used to remind my dear Nana when she would send me all sorts of dubious articles clipped from various 'womens' magazines and tabloid newspapers, "Just because it is in print does not make it true!"

More important than the issue of the actual jacket is the total effect...clean, well-pressed clothes, no garish colors or patterns, good leather shoes, etc.
A man in a good cotton shirt and black cashmere sweater will present a much more pleasing appearance than a guy in a bright plaid sports jacket and ill-fitting denim pants.

Well, that is the extent of my fashion advice. In the end, it does not matter all that much. Men do not seem to enjoy wearing ties and jackets...after fighting that fight for a while, I just let the matter rest. The exception to this would be the very top tier of restaurants with multi-Michelin stars and even then, a great sweater and shirt and good pants would not be awful, either. He can always borrow the restaurant's jacket if they insist.

Emergency page for Margiela and thingorjus.

Please pick up the white fodors courtesy phone for an emergency fashion question.

I agree that you should wear what you feel comfortable in. A lot of what you feel comfortable wearing depends on where you live and your age, as well as where you plan to go and what you plan to do.

I, too, will be in Paris the first week in May, and I wouldn't even consider not wearing a jacket, but I live on the East Coast, where many men wear jackets, and I am 62 years old. I would wear the same thing in Charleston or New Orleans if I were going to the same kinds of places.

At Bofinger last time for lunch, I was in the middle of the crowd, sartorially -- plenty of types in sweaters and turtlenecks and plenty of others in Jacques Chirac suits. I felt comfortable.

I learn a lot in this forum. I looked up wikipedia what "chinos" are. Sounds VERY American. I doubt if such trousers are available in Europe.

I usually wear smart jeans, polo shirt and jacket in a European restaurant, but have developed a feeling that this combination is unusual in the USA.

Men in restaurants wearing suits and ties are usually business people in their working uniforms. When they go into the same restaurants together with friends and families they would wear jeans too. However, what counts in Europe is the total impression, matching colours, elegant shoes etc.

"It's not the actual clothing items that count, but the ability to wear clothes with style and panache. Good-quality items - nice shoes, a cashmere sweater, a tailored shirt - those count for way more than 'putting on a tie and jacket.' "

Wow, I guess I'm screwed no matter what I bring then. I don't think I've ever been close to having style and panache.

But the key I glean from this thread is to wear what you'd be comfortable wearing in a similar restaurant at home.

Anyone who worries about such things should dress "properly". Anybody else is probably oblivious and will get by just fine.

It should be noted that the expensive restaurants are mostly interested in how much money you will spend, not how you look. The waiters certainly don't care. The other customers will either not notice or will feel superior. Hooray for them.

No blazer for your husband. Jeez, some of these questions....!

I guess the one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that when my wife takes the time to dress nicely for a restaurant meal in Paris, why wouldn't I do the same? I feel better, too. For me that means a jacket and turtleneck or sometimes a shirt and tie.
I agree wiyh Budman that it usually gets us a good table. I wear it on the plane because it is easier than packing it. According to the ground personnel, the way we were dressed is what got us bumped up to First Class.

>It should be noted that the expensive restaurants are mostly interested in how much money you will spend, not how you look.<

Not really. They do have to keep their regular clientele happy.

It is absolutely amazing what people will "endure" in terms of what other customers are/are not wearing if the restaurant's service and food are good, isn't it?

Dockers..yes, people in Europe do wear them. Of course, they cost a lot more than they do in the US.

Early May? He needs to take some sort of coat/jacket for the evenings, but it doesn't need to be a formal one.

Blazer? The very word makes me think of 80 year old retired military types

Oh and Chinos were popular in parts of Europe around 20 years ago.

OK, allow me to review:
No blazer
No chinos
No ill-fitting jeans
No non-leather shoes
No ill-fitting shirts
Must have panache
Must be a big boy
Black cashmere -- yes
Plaid -- no

Got it. Packing just got a lot easier.

>Must have panache.

I buy all of my clothes from Land's End or LL Bean.

Where do I get a panache?

ira asked: "Where do I get a panache?"

Try a bar in any French-speaking place.

I would like to know what Chinos are ...because in Spanish Chinos are the people from China....

The French dress much better than we do, certainly the women always seem to be "turned out". I always wear a sportcoat or blazer (never with metal buttons). Chinos are a sixties thing; Gap still sells them....and look what has happened to their stock. The better you are dressed, the better you will be treated in a bistrot or restaurant; cafes don't count. Buy your husband a Travelsmith sportcoat; they have all kinds of hidden pockets etc. Tell him it's a security thing.

<<The better you are dressed, the better you will be treated in a bistrot or restaurant.>>

In a truly excellent establishment, that is not true. The staff know how to look beyond the clothing and thank god for that -- Russian mafia types, Lebanese arms merchants, African dictators and various other sleazeballs are always extremely well dressed in Paris, with the most magnificent and expensive garb that money can buy. The best establishments treat them as they deserve to be treated. However, there is a certain type of establishment that will fawn over them and their wallets. I hope that you are not a regular at these establishments, oakglen.

Hi kenderina,

Here's a picture of some chinos for you!

http://tinyurl.com/2rre79

oakglen wrote: "The better you are dressed, the better you will be treated in a bistrot or restaurant".

Truly, I have never noticed that. I think it is sufficient to be clean and tidy. After that, treating people in a courteous way suffices (and that IS important).

There may be a small number of places that are more stuffy, but I have yet to wander into any of them (and if I did, I would wander out again -- who needs that?).

Funny thing, but in the past I've often gotten into the argument here and said that while we're in Paris we never seem to wear our jackets we take. We don't do "starred" restaurants, but nice family run bistros, restaurants, and the usual brasseries. A nice shirt and slacks are fine, and without AC in many places, that's all I want to wear. But this year, during our 10 days in July it was quite cool, and we ended up wearing our casual linen sportjackets (that we bought IN Paris last summer) nearly every single night. We wore them more for warmth than for being dressed up. If it's hot he won't be out of place in or out of one at any but the fanciest of places. But it's sure nice to have one "just in case".

Padraig and kerouac - could it be that if you never have dressed the part you wouldn't know...

Well, I have to say that I understand if a place has a jacket required rule, and that they certainly wouldn't serve you if you weren't wearing one or if you were seated might treat you differently.

But to be perfectly honest if a place without such a rule treats a man in a sport coat in a different way than they treat a well-dressed man without one -- then I'd prefer to find another restaurant. That's just plain silly.
Particularly if the man without the sport coat was better dressed than the man with one -- yes, I said that right and it is quite possible.

Hi NP,

>...treats a man in a sport coat in a different way than they treat a well-dressed man without one...<

Please define "well dressed" when dining in public.

From what I have garnered on this forum, I suggest the following:

Semi-casual - bathing trunks and flip flops
Resort casual - the above with a tee shirt
Golf course casual - the above with a polo shirt
Casual - the above with long pants
Semi formal - the above with shoes
Formal - the above with a sports jacket

Well dressed without a sportcoat. Think Will on Will and Grace.

Less well dressed with a sportcoat.
Think Jerry Stiller on the King of Queens.

Simply wearing a sportcoat has LITTLE to do with being well dressed.
Trust me on this. I live in Florida surrounded by some of the worst polyester leisure suits and hot pink silk sportcoats worn with plaid pants and white patent shoes you've ever seen. And I'm also surrounded by trendy restaurants where hardly anyone would wear a sportcoat, but designer shirts, great looking slacks, and designer shoes abound.

And while I agree with ira's description for "levels" of formality, I don't think any of those have anything to do with the term "well-dressed". A person can be in resort casual and be a far better dressed person than someone in formal attire.

Hi NP,

>A person can be in resort casual and be a far better dressed person than someone in formal attire. <

Please define "formal attire".


Do you mean that a guy in a "full Chicago" in Florida is no longer well dressed?

Neo - It happens all the time, everywhere in the world. Somebody has to get that table by the window or get bumped to First Class.

I can't even respond to most of this. However, in Paris last winter we did have reservations for a very special meal at a Michelin starred restaurant. DH, who is a casual guy, wore a very nice cashmere and camel hair blend, dark navy, single breasted contemporary cut sports jacket. He looked good.

My brother is a very hip dresser and wore a very modern suit. He looked good.

Otherwise, they both wore their normal clothing every place we went. They both looked good.

This was the first time my husband EVER took a jacket on vacation, and it was because of the Michelin starred reservations. He wore it on the plane as we pack very light.

I think this is all so silly. I know some European men that are good dressers and some that are horrible dressers. I know more American men that are bad dressers, but then, I know more American men.

If your clothes are clean, modest and acceptable, you ought to be welcome wherever you go. My two cents.

I have been to Paris eight times. I have never worn a sport coat or blazer, nor have I ever brought one.
Wait, I did bring a blue blazer when I was a kid and went with my folks in the 60s, and I did get a great burger at Wimpys. Coincidence, I think not!

I have never been relegated to restaurant Siberia by not having the aforementioned attire. In the winter, my sweater and overcoat have always seemed to be fine, and we had some nice tables.

In the summer, a decent button down shirt or, dare I say, short-sleeved golf-type shirt have been fine at the many bistros and brassieres we have frequented. I have never been taunted (at least to my face) by one of our servers.

I don't go to Michelin-rated restaurants, as I would like to have some money left in my retirement fund and spending $500 for dinner is not my type of enjoyment.

That said, I think it is wonderful that many of you put on a sport coat or even a tie to go out to dinner. I'll even compliment you on your wardrobe should we have tables next to each other.

I guess being a Southern California native has hindered my sartorial selection and taste, but I am comfortable with it. My wife, who has extremely good taste (except maybe for her choice of husbands) is my compass, and if she thinks I look fine, that's all I need to know.

Anyway. Do you need to pack a blazer for Paris? No.

Hi M,

>I don't go to Michelin-rated restaurants, ... spending $500 for dinner is not my type of enjoyment.<

If you choose carefully, you could get away for less than 1/2 that.

And your wife might even say that you look good in your sports jacket.

Author: robjame
Date: 08/16/2007, 04:58 pm
Neo - It happens all the time, everywhere in the world. Somebody has to get that table by the window or get bumped to First Class.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Robjame, I don't think you're reading my post right.
I TOTALLY agree that a well dressed man (or couple) are likely to get better service than a not so well dressed couple.

What I DON'T agree with is that a man will get better service simply because he's wearing a sport coat. A sport coat wearing man is NOT necessarily a better dressed man than one without one.

I repeat my examples above. Will from Will and Grace enters a restaurant in his usual designer casual attire -- long sleeve designer shirt, nice slacks, great shoes. Next to him is the character from King of Queens played by Jerry Stiller wearing a sportcoat. If the restaurant seats Jerry Stiller in the better seat and gives him better service just because this horrible dresser happens to be wearing a sport coat, then that is NOT a restaurant I'd want to patronize.

Is that clearer?

"And your wife might even say that you look good in your sports jacket."

I look even better in a tux. That doesn't mean I like to wear one. Some business and social events call for sport coat and tie or even tux. Paris, for me, does not require my wearing a sport coat.

Maybe when I'm 60.

NO

<<Maybe when I'm 60.>>
ira - I guess that puts us in our place!!

I think it depends what you are comfortable in.
What does your wife wear maitai?
Is it necessary - probably not.

robjame, was my last post clearer?

Uh-oh, now I'm really worried. As I said this summer was the first time I've worn a sport coat every night in Paris. It was also my first time in Paris being over 60. Is there a significant connection there?

<<If your clothes are clean, modest and acceptable, you ought to be welcome wherever you go. >>

Well, yes and no. A "destination" restaurant with formal service deserves consideration about dress - If you've saved up for a special night out, gotten dressed up and settled in at an elegant restaurant, do you expect other guests to be dressed in bermuda shorts and tank tops? Or even in polo shirts they'd also wear for a golf game? Restaurants spend a lot of time and attention on creating atmosphere - and a standard level of dress is part of that. You can call it snobbery, but it's calculated to serve the customers.

Dress for the vacation you want to have. If that doesn't include occasionally wearing a jacket, cool. As for me, I don't get to go to fine restaurants that often (or to the opera, for that matter, another place I'd wear a jacket), so when I do go, I like to dress it up a little. For my sake, no one else's, to make it more an event. I rather feel that way about Paris, too. I take a jacket - I even take TIES!! Alors!!

By the way, restaurants certainly will notice how customers are dressed (in particular the customers they don't know) when accomodating them. Along with manners (general decorum included), intelligence, beauty ... these are things that are attractive to other customers, believe it or not. (even in the most casual places, who hasn't said to himself, "This place draws a nice-looking crowd ..." If you haven't, think about it next time.) So given the choice, a host will put "attractive" customers (that whole mix of qualities) where others will see them, and will want to put the loud, the tired-looking, extremely under- or over-dressed, etc where they don't send out an undesired message. This is purely business. It may only happen in 5% or fewer of all restaurants, or maybe more ... but it's hardly rare or strange.

Who doesn't appreciate someone going to a little effort?

"ira - I guess that puts us in our place!!"

robjame - As a card carrying member of AARP, I'm not too far from 60. I told Tracy if I ever wear shorts with wing tips and black shorts it's time to put the gun to my head.

"What does your wife wear maitai?
Is it necessary - probably not."

She doesn't wear a sport coat either.

Neo - yes LOL - see your "classical references" were lost on me. I totally misread what you were saying. Sorry.
As long as we don't uses fellow Floridians as examples of how to dress.

I think we "older folks" still enjoy getting dressed up a little for dinner (a three hour event for us). I have no quarrel with those who don't agree.

"wing tips and black shorts "

black SOCKS. See robjame, I'm already losing it. A sport coat can't be far behind. Look at poor Neo, he has already started the over-60 trend.

And while I want to defend my wearing the sport coat this summer by saying "because it was cold", I have a horrible fear that I only thought it was cold due to my advancing years. Oh dear.

I guess formal is what you are used to.

We're from so. calif. and we were going to a very formal fancy restaurant in Philly.
I called to find out what the "dress code" was and they said nice and informal.
My husband put on a suit and tie (he said that is what they meant by informal.)

My daughters and I wore t-shirts and blue jeans because that is informal in the beach community we live in.

Boy were we out of place with the suits/and "formal" wear worn by men and women!!!!! At least I didn't wear my flipflops.

I find it amusing how many people seem to think that if you don't "dress up" it means you are wearing shorts and flipflops. I guess people with absolutely no sense of measure have to dress as well as possible because they just can't gauge what is appropriate.

I still get upgraded to 1st class quite often without wearing a jacket and tie anymore. Of course I have also been airline staff long enough to know what charms the check-in staff and the station manager.

Well, NP, all our years are advancing at the same pace, 365 days each, one day at a time!

On that note: a well-fitted jacket serves another purpose beyond "formalizing" = it makes those of us with less-than-perfect proportions look instantly in better shape! This could be the reason the tailored suit has survived so long ... it can give a man a youthful waistline and straight shoulders. No surgery or exercise required.

Here's a memory that just came back:

One hot summer night about 15 years ago I was at an off Broadway theater. In walked Douglas Fairbanks Jr. He'd have been about 75 then. Beautiful light gray suit, white shirt and dark necktie. The rest of us, save for maybe his friends, were summer-in-the-city ultra casual. At intermission I couldn't help but be fascinated at the utter "comfort" he displayed. He didn't look hot, for one thing, and clearly didn't think twice about how he was dressed - he had done that long before, found his standard and was sticking to it.

In a world where "being comfortable" seems to equate with seeing what you can get away with, I like to remember photos of my grandfathers, in their suits and straw hats, looking like gentlemen - not movie stars, but with their own dignity.

kerouac-
you have insight into what gets one into first class!!

you MUST share with us.

we will tell no-one else promise.
you secret is safe with us.

Hi Kerouac, I do love these discussions. Now that I am retired and no longer officed in Paris, and more importantly, missing my expense account, my search for great Parisian dining centers more on Bib Gourmand type restaurants. And I confess that perhaps I lived too many years in Boston and NYC. Nevertheless, I believe that proper attire and a bit of "attitude" works well in Paris. Not in other parts of France, where politeness and a kind word is all one needs.

kerouac??
we're waiting!

nicely put tomassocroccante
Your last paragraph is right on

It's after midnight in France, so perhaps kerouac has gone to bed. Or maybe he's out partying. I don't think he's over 60 like some of us old codgers. We may have to wait for morning for a response.

"So given the choice, a host will put "attractive" customers (that whole mix of qualities) where others will see them."

Like I said, I guess I'm screwed no matter what I pack! I can't say I look anything like Jerry Stiller, but the coming out scene in the Elephant man comes to mind.

What's funny about this kind of thread is that to some extent it's absurd, but what it's really about is "When I go to a nice restaurant in Paris, am I OK if I dress like I do in New York, or is it more formal, like Philadelphia or D.C.?" Not necessarily an easy question to answer.

You're right, that's not easy to answer. But for me, usually eating at a lot of restaurants in the Hell's Kitchen area of New York and similar cost restaurants in the Latin Quarter or St. Germain areas of Paris, I'd say
overall people dress "better" or more stylish in those Paris places.

neo patrick
over 60 doesn't make you an old codger!!
just wiser and more sensible!!

It is largely a matter of the place you are in. An example was when we retired and moved from D.C. to a small town, north of Seattle.

We joined a service/social club, and were invited to a function. The invitation said "Formal", so we dressed as we would in D.C.; DW in a long gown, and me in my Tux. We arrived a bit late, and walked in just as all the guest rose to the opening ceremonies.

There was not a single man in the room in a tie, and many jeans and even shorts were in evidence. The women were dressed equally casually.

We were later told that "dress up" in this town means "Clean blue jeans". "Formal", means "Clean blue jeans with no paint spots -- big belt buckle optional".

I'm still taking a jacket to Paris in October, just because I feel more comfortable in a formal setting with one. Besides, we are renewing our wedding vows, and I don't feel flip flops are appropriate.

Maitaitom: I just have to defend my always tightly budgeted self: our lunch in Paris at le Grand Vefour was 75 Euro each. My brother had a glass of some sort of sparkling wine that was 15 Euro for the glass. This was a big splurge for all of us, and we had always wanted to try a Michelin starred restaurant. Well, I did, and my brother did. I don't think my husband really wanted to, but we three enjoyed the experience.

It was a splurge, and I later saw a dress I wanted in BHV that cost about a lunch and a half, and couldn't get the dress. A definite trade off.

As I said, it was a splurge. I should have said earlier that we bought the jacket at Marshall's so that DH would have one for the restaurant. I was afraid I'd get hooted off Fodor's for having a husband without a sport jacket. :">

You crack me up, zooey.

<<We were later told that "dress up" in this town means "Clean blue jeans". "Formal", means "Clean blue jeans with no paint spots -- big belt buckle optional".>>

Well, Nuke, those people are maroons. I think it's great if they want to have a blue jeans event, I'd love to be invited. But to write "formal" on the invitation - that's idiotic, unless it was supposed to be a joke! And obviously it wasn't helpful to their guests!


Footnote: When "semi-formal" was first devised it meant the "dinner jacket" or "tuxedo" route. That is, half as formal as white tie and tails.

I'd write "black tie" on an invitation if I were in charge, rather than the confusing "formal." (Unfortunately, I'm not in charge.)

So true. Back in my high school and college days, even our proms were called "semi-formal". That meant most of the guys wore white dinner jackets and the girls mainly wore knee length rather floor length gowns.
And NO, our proms were not held inside the cave.

<<I believe that proper attire and a bit of "attitude" works well in Paris.>>

As the most visited city in the world, Paris provides just about every imaginable experience that people request (It is also the sex club capital of the world -- you should see the listings and descriptions in the weekly Pariscope, which are not even exhaustive. People usually go to these straight from their fancy restaurants, because there's just something special about getting down and dirty when you are wearing your finest.)

But it is all just role playing, like getting past the doorman at exclusive clubs. Everybody knows that how you are dressed is not a criterium as much as the ferocity of your eye contact. (Strangely enough, the provinces are much more strict, as it is often indicated on a sign: "athletic shoes not allowed.")

So I will concede that restaurants will often lay it on thick to customers who are overdressed, and you can barely see their smirk ('going to a sex club later?) -- this might be what some of you are perceiving as "better" treatment by the staff in such places. Have any of you see the French movie "The Dinner Game"? It might help to explain the 'fun' that Parisians have with certain people. When they find a true 'prize' couple, they will certainly put them in the most visible table in the restaurant. Just something to think about.

[No, I hadn't gone to bed yet. I read oakglen's intervention but went on to other pursuits on the net. I'm sorry to say that Fodor's in not my principal 'debate' site.]

It is true that local gents in neighborhood restaurants will likely be wearing jackets (no matter how hot the weather) with slacks - whether you call them chinos, dress twills, etc. In my observation, men who don't care to wear jackets to dinner don't care if they're the only one in a restaurant not wearing one.

You will see anything and everything on other tourists and they will be patronizing all sorts of dining establishments.

It's no more necessary for your husband to pack a blazer for dining than for you to pack a little black dress, short black skirt and lacy camisole, linen suit, or strappy high heels and expensive handbag.

However, my husband brings a blazer (wool/silk in a subtle pattern) that goes with black or tan slacks, and I pack a black skirt and dressy tops and low heeled pumps, along with a silk or wool (black) blazer. A jacket is handy, no matter the forecast (even for a chilly plane). And, we prefer to dress "nicer" for "nicer" restaurants.

But, for "the most casual places", casual attire is just fine. The locals, I think, tend to be more dressed up because a) they are on their way home from work, and/or b) they just have more formal, rather than casual, wardrobes.

kerouac - After reading the above plus some of your other observations,
I have come to the conclusion that "your Paris" is not "my Paris".
I don't mean that unkindly - I just think that I frequent different areas (you might say touristy) and see Paris through different colored glasses.

Absolutely no offense taken, robjame -- obviously a resident and tourist will never see a city the same way or follow the same rules. And although I try to help when possible, I would not want visitors to do all of the same things that I do. The vast majority of tourists overpay and overdo everything (through no fault of their own -- being in unfamiliar territory and having a limited time to have to most 'fun' imaginable leads all of us to act differently from at home). This is a great thing for residents, since the extra money not only fuels the economy but also helps to keep prices low out of the tourist areas.

But of course, living in the #1 tourist destination in the world is both a blessing and a curse. I would say that the number of visitors has at least doubled in the last 20 years, diminishing the enjoyment of the residents while filling their pockets.

I know the feeling, having lived in San Francisco for 25 years. Many of the "must see" attractions and destination restaurants for visitors are not places frequented by locals. But I've stopped trying to tell visitors to avoid, say, fisherman's wharf. Instead I do encourage people to add some local flavor to their visits.

But back to topic, I would tell a visitor that at most of the nicer restaurants in San Francisco you see very few ties, that many of the men wear jackets but they generally won't feel out of place without one, and that I wouldn't suggest wearing your picnic attire even though you will see some who do. And if you see someone sitting at the tiny table between the kitchen and the bathroom door wearing large clown shoes, an enormous polka dot bow tie, and white pancake makeup, that would be me.

zooey, how are your balloon-animal-making skills? Are you for hire?

Incidentally, I was reminded of a restaurant here that used to have a jackets required rule for gentlemen. But they were very stingy with the air-conditioning. So on any given night you could look around the room and see that out of maybe 50 men, perhaps 35 of them had their jackets off and draped over their chairs. What was the point?

It was a scheme to get out of reupholstering the chairs ...

Just try to appreciate Paris while you can. 800,000 Chinese tourists this year in Paris. Within 2 years, that will be 2 million, and it will keep rising. It will change the face of tourism in France as we all know it (note: the Chinese who come to France go to just two regions at the moment - Paris and Alsace). And since Chinese tourists spend more money per person than any other group, prepare to be squeezed out of a lot of places that you know and love.

An important observation, Kerouac.

The other day someone was mentioning visiting Dubai, and how incredibly expensive they found it, that they wondered if the "tourism mecca" that seems to be the goal there could succeed. I suggested maybe some of the millions of future Chinese and Indian tourists might make it a "nearby" attraction.

As a New Yorker, I certainly understand the effect of thousands upon thousands of tourists crowding the streets of a city with millions of its own inhabitants trying to get around and enjoy their home town. (On that note, I recently read an apartment listing for Paris in which the owners admitted that the popularity of your town was the reason they would be traveling, making their apt available!)

I should have added, that couple said they needed to get away from the crowds and enjoy someplace else for a while.

"note: the Chinese who come to France go to just two regions at the moment - Paris and Alsace"

Interesting. I've never heard that. Why Alsace?

I forget if it was due to a novel or a Chinese mini-series that took place (partially) in Alsace, but apparently some sort of item of popular culture gave the Chinese a passion for seeing Alsace.

In terms of the countries the Chinese want to see in Europe, the list is: 1. France 2. Switzerland 3. Greece 4. Italy

I remember when visiting New Brunswick, Canada one summer there were seemingly thousands of Japanese tourists. It seemed so strange. It ended up that there is a huge stage show about Anne of Green Gables, which just happened to be the most popular book among young Japanese girls.

It's interesting what makes people want to visit a certain place.

I'm comfortable in a sports coat just about anywhere. If nothing else it is a place to park my wallet and a mini camera. I think that if you wore a tux to a top restaurant in Paris you would be mistaken for a waiter.

NeoPatrick, I am for hire, but I take offense with your stereotyped question about balloon-animal-making on behalf of all clown shoe, big bow tie, white pancake wearing people throughout the globe.

Gee. I'm sorry you're offended, but let's get to the point. You are for hire? But if you aren't good at balloon animals, I'm just going to have to look elsewhere!!

Sorry, I don't have the dexterity.

I'm for hire as a travel/fashion consultant. I'm waiting to hear back on my proposal to the travel channel: Extreme Makeover: Traveler Edition.

I'm thinking of starting with Jerry Stiller.

The Anne of Green Gables play took place in Prince Edward Island, in Charlottetown, and the novel by LM Montgomery was set in Cavendish, not in New Brunswick. The earlier comment is like saying that many of Stephen King's novels are set in New Hampshire instead of Maine.

That said, it was very popular with the Japanese, who have read the book, and I even observed a wedding party at the National Park site of "Green Gables" when we visited the Island a few summers ago.

Back on topic, my husband did not wear a dinner jacket in March, but he did wear his leather bomber-style jacket. No comment was made, other than when we went to visit the Altitude restaurant at the Tour Eiffel on St. Patrick's Day - he was wearing his green T-shirt and the maitre d' consented to him leaving on the leather jacket instead of removing it as a "coat".

A jacket is not "necessary" but if he (and you) feel more comfortable with him wearing it and you will be going to restaurants rather than bistros and brasseries, by all means, go for it

Zooey, you wear a nice sportscoat with your bowtie, right? Please post a link to your pic.

No, but maybe that's why they sat me at such a bad table!

No pictures. I have more than a passing resemblance to a public figure of dubious stature, and don't want to be mistaken for him.

Duh. Guess I flunked Canadian Geography. Yes, of course it was Prince Edward Island where we visited the Green Gables and saw the musical as well, sharing the audience with a couple hundred Japanese girls and young women.