Dayle

i hope some of the German Fodorites and experience travelers might give me some suggestions on the short German part of my May 2017 trip. Visiting Amsterdam and surrounds for a week, then have a visit to the Mosel and Rhine River valleys planned.

Right now I have Haus Lipmann in Beilstein booked for 3 nights. While there, I hope to visit Burg Elz, take a little river cruise, explore a couple of the Mosel towns and do some wine tasting.

I plan to then travel over to the Rhine where I have two hotel options booked and awaiting a final decision: Hotel Rhinfels in St. Goar and Burghotel auf Schonburg in Oberwesel. Here I plan to cruise on the river and visit a couple more towns and castles. 3 nights.

I have 2 nights left before I fly back out of Amsterdam. Any suggestions for another city or town visit that would make logistical sense? Am I spending too long in the Rhine River valley? I would like to visit Rothenberg, but it seems too far for the time I have available. I like history, architecture, love medieval towns, and sometimes an unusual specific interest museum. Not into WWII stuff at all.

I was originally planning to pick up a rental car (perhaps in Koblenz) and return it in a city along the way that would provide a convenient train connection to Amsterdam. Some are advising that this German itinerary can easily be done via train and bus, but I don't think it would be easy to get to Schonburg Castle hotel without a car. Any first hand experience with this?

Thanks so much in advance!

PalenQ

Trains are great but dd not go to Beilstein -buses and seasonal boats do - if staying there a car is a good choice.

If staying in Cochem and Rhine towns it is not. anyway for lots on that area and trains if interested check www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

I think 3 days on the Rhine would be for me a day too much (though you could spend days there- it is a small area with things pretty much the same IMO.

But a day in Koblenz itself could be great -visit the imposing fortress across the Rhine.

Or go up to Cologne for a day - see the great cathedral and ditch the car and go by train from there to Amsterdam.

Fussgaenger

With both Auf Schönburg and Beilstein in the mix you've been cornered into the car option for outings. If you opt for Hotel Rheinfels and overnight in Cochem or another Mosel town with a train station, I'd go with the train - less expensive, less trouble - you'll walk to Burg Eltz instead of driving however.


For me, Beilstein is hands-down too tiny for a 3-night base town. I think of Beilstein as a nice cruise outing from Cochem - one hour there, a couple in town, one hour back.

"Here I plan to cruise on the river and visit a couple more towns and castles. 3 nights."

That wouldn't be a problem for me. I've been there several times and still have a couple of things I'd like to see/do. For an "unusual museum" check out the open-air museum in Bad Sobernheim (not ON the Rhine but upstream from the Rhine along the Nahe River.)

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti...neland_Pa.html

Rheinfels and Markburg are your best Rhine castle options.

Linz is north of Koblenz - lovely town.

The Rhine Castle trail along the cliffs between Oberwesel and St. Goar is breathtakingly pretty.

http://www.romantic-germany.info/index.php?id=2942

Just above the vineyards north of Oberwesel is the Günderodehaus - great view, good place for refreshment

http://www.christiane-geldmacher.de/...in2014-003.jpg

Lots of people enjoy taking the chairlift in Ruedesheim for a walk with views and eventually over to Assmannsausen (or take the lift above A'hausen down into town.)

http://www.seilbahn-ruedesheim.de/fi...anderkarte.pdf

PalenQ

I'd go with the train - less expensive, less trouble - you'll walk to Burg Eltz instead of driving however.>

Well if you want -take a train to Moselkern and take a taxi up to Burg Eltz or if want do a lovely few-mile uphill walk thru forests to the castle. You do not have to walk.

Great great advice on this area from Fuss, as usual.

If I had a car in Beilstein I would drive one day up the Mosel to Bernkastel- arguably the most scenic part of the sinuously snaking Mosel Valley- lots of little wineries en route

Or drive to Zell or Traben-Trarbach -both cute towns.

but yes Beilstein is a wide spot in the road -good for a base but many prefer more of a town -like Cochem, which I love -in May there will not be a flock of tourists as in July and August.

hetismij2

Beilstein is a great base for exploring. Yes it is small, but you want to see more than just the village in which you are staying. The hotel is lovely - when we stayed we ate there every night (also 3 nights), and had their set menu which was good.
Be sure to walk up to the castle and the Jewish cemetery in Beilstein.

PalenQ

folks have raved for years now about the Haus Lipmann in Beilstein. And Beilstein may be tiny but that lets it sit amongst some very very lovely Mosel Valley scenery -vineyards carpeting south-facing slopes. Great for motorists not train travelers.

Dayle

Thank you all for such great input. This is exactly what I was hoping for. Beilstein just sounds like my kind of place and I tend to like smaller towns. Definitely plan to visit others along the river.

Thanks for the links. I've been checking them out. The Rudeshiem lift and hiking sounds fun.

I've check out Linz, but it seems lodging there is limited, at least from what I've found on TA and booking.com. I booked a hotel in Ramegen on the river that looks nice and should be fine for 1 night.

If anyone has a good recommendation for Linz, it would be appreciated!

Think I'll start looking into a car now. Picking up in Koblenz and dropping? Linz is north of Koblenz. Wouldn't mind dropping back in Koblenz. Not sure how large of a city I need to use for pick up and drop. I will use AutoEurope as I have for past trips.

Do German cities and towns have ZTLs like in Italy?

Thanks again for all the help. Visiting a country for the first time makes you feel like a newbie (which I am)!

MichGuy

Can you book an open jaw flight - in to Amsterdam and out of Frankfurt? If you can, dropping the car at the Frankfort airport would work well.

I'd cut your Rhine valley time by a day after all that time on the Moselle. Instead visit Rothenburg ob der Taube, or Heidelberg, or even Nuremberg.

bilboburgler

note the conflict with driving and wine tasting. Germans not only do morning alcohol checks, but also random secondary road checks especially near any borders.

You will also find the concept of local bar/restaurants run by a series of local producers during the year very interesting for wine tastings. These normally change hands every 30 days or so and offer very much home cooked wonders.

PalenQ

En route to Amsterdam by train it is easy to stop off in Cologne for a look at the world-famous cathedral, smack dab right next to the train station -put bags into storage in station,

Dayle

Mich, no Frankfurst was not availavle using FFmiles unfortunately. That would have been my preference.

So does everyone think I am spending too much time on the river valleys? I think it will take most of a day to get betweem Amsterdam and Beilstein. If I have tome to wander around tiny Beilstein a bit after checking in, that's my first nt. second full day get up to Burg Eltz and maybe visit Cochem if time. Third day do a cruise and maybe go as far south as some other town recommended or do some wine tasting.


Im a real sipping taster, not drinking. Should be fine driving. Still playing with the options on trains or car.

If I did shorten the time on the Mosel and Rhine, i could include Rothenburg. Just dont want to be rushing. After a few trips to Europe, Ive finally learned that less is more.

Dayle

Also, staying in Cochem to allow train travel would maybe be OK, but it seemed the appealing places were all booked up already. Must have a non smoking hotel. Any recommendations?

bilboburgler

I think the Mosel is one of the most magical places to stay. So shortening it seems like a mistake to me.

Cochem is for those big city folk, try some of the smaller towns with train access like Traben and Trabach or one of the villages such as Urzig.

PalenQ

Im a real sipping taster, not drinking. Should be fine driving. Still playing with the options on trains or car.>

If spending some days on the Mosel a car is neat - I've driven and biked the valley from Luxembourg to Koblenz many times (when running bike trips thru it) and though trains can get you to a few places and there are buses along it having a car where you can just stop and relax and take in the views is neat.

And to get to the Rhine you can do a thrilling road up and over the hills and not have to go thru Koblenz.

Now on the Rhine I think a car is more a hassle than anything - parking can be problematic in small towns and the roads seem much busier than those along the Mosel - probably because the Rhine Gorge is a gap thru which main roads and railroads pass constantly -the Mosel road is a side road used mainly for local traffic.

Cochem to Bernkastel-Kues is the prettiest stretch for driving.

PalenQ

Remagen is on a IME forgettable part of an industrial Rhine- I am sure it is a nice town and has a famous ruined bridge but I would not linger on that part of the Rhine - Bonn is a really nice larger town - not ruined in war - one reason it was selected as Geramny's post-war capital for a spell.

greg

Just in case you are interpreting the German BAC level like where you live, read the http://www.eur.army.mil/21TSC/SJA/Le.../01-05-DUI.pdf page 5 section on relative impairment. If you are involved in an "operational fault", a lower BAC level kicks in.
When I go out with a Germany friends in their car, the driver drinks absolutely no alcohol.

Dayle

So if I want to do some wine tasting, even if very little, it should be in a town tasting room and where I can walk? Probably just as well that Im not a fan of German wine generally speaking. Too sweet. It looks as if my opinion may remain the same! I just prefer to taste at the winery because its usually a nicer environment and you can get a wide selection.

Car rental may end up just for 3 or 4 days. Ill see if I can drop it somewhere before heading back to Amsterdam.

Thanks bilbo, Ill look into some of the smaller plces you mentioned in the Mosel.

Palenq, thanks for your opinions. Since I regard you as Mr. train, the fact that you like a car for the Mosel, is great!

Fussgaenger

"So if I want to do some wine tasting, even if very little, it should be in a town tasting room and where I can walk? Probably just as well that Im not a fan of German wine generally speaking. Too sweet."

OK so skip the Mosel wines and do the dry Rhine wines instead.

You probably aren't going to be driving around from vineyard to vineyard to do wine tasting like you would at home. Wineries that do tastings are normally located on a property in town. This list of Rhine wineries with addresses is in German and gives the winery website links, rooms if offered, and some tasting information. Use the address info to locate the wineries in Boppard and other popular Rhine towns and you will find lots of wineries right in town.

I have driven the Mosel area and used trains as well. Done a bit of hiking from town to town as well. IMO the trains are the way to go for short-term visitors like you. So scenic, relaxing, and quick... the railways were tunneled through hillsides where needed. So if you were staying in Cochem and wanted to visit the vineyard-happy, idyllic wine town of Neef, a nearby Mosel-River village, you'd be on the road for 30+ minutes following the contours of the terrain. But the train makes the same trip in 8 minutes.

Neef: http://www.die-mosel.de/zell/neef/neef.jpg

Typical small-time winery/apartment in Neef:
http://www.urlaub-in-rheinland-pfalz...ut+Kreuter.jpg

The trains between Koblenz and Cochem follow the river every inch of the way with scenery like this:

http://www.zughalt.de/wp-content/upl...10/DB11321.jpg

The rail line on this map shows the Mosel between Traben-Trarbach and Koblenz (the line runs southwest from Koblenz.) Some of my favorite towns there are Bullay (and Alf across the river,) Traben-Trarbach, Winningen, and Neef. But the others are nice too.

You can see this area from the driver's seat too, don't get me wrong. But the wine tasting and the rental car regimen and the duties of driving tend to impair my enjoyment of the place if I'm behind the wheel. So I'll be using the trains next time as well. The train itself is a good place for wine tasting if you come across a bottle you like.

Fussgaenger

Here's that link to the Rhine wineries that I promised:
http://www.mittelrhein-wein.com/winz...erurlaub06.pdf

PalenQ

Car rental may end up just for 3 or 4 days. Ill see if I can drop it somewhere before heading back to Amsterdam.>

Again drop car in Cologne perhaps -spend a night there - see the great cathedral and take train to Amsterdam - or drop car in Koblenz or Bonn and train to Cologne - see cathedral - and train onto Amsterdam.

Yes I love trains but also driving in sublime areas like Mosel Valley (biking to me is better but on limited time...)