>>>Do the 'sleep near' options seem reasonable?<<<

No.

Asciano is not far from Siena. It's somewhat remote and not convenient for Cortona/Montepulciano. I would pick a Siena location and include Asciano and Montalcino as day trips along with San G, Volterra and Chianti.

Pisa and Lucca are easily visited from Florence by train as day trips (possible to do both in one day).

I would put Rome at the end of the trip.

I would start the trip in Orvieto. Spend the night and pick up the car the next day or pick it up at the airport and drive to Orvieto if you don't think you will be jet lagged. Pick a base in southern Tuscany (perhaps base somewhere between Montepulciano and Pienza) so you could visit Cortona, Pienza, Montepulciano, Montalcino and Asciano.

Next stay in Siena or somewhere around San G where you could visit Siena, Volterra and Chianti.

I'm not sure it's practical to keep the car the entire trip as you've listed several cities/areas where you can't drive (Florence, CT, Venice). It would seem a bit more practical to figure an itinerary that lumped some areas together where a car isn't necessary.

I would also put Rome at the end. In your case, you have so many days, so while putting Rome at the end saves almost one day (by not having to stay overnight just to synch to the return flight), it is not so significant in your case. However, I don't assume that everything works right all the way to the end. Why keep risks associated with a car, accident, theft, etc, involving time consuming procedures up to the day before the return flight when you could easily return to Rome and ditch the car many days earlier where such snafu would have no significant impact to the itinerary. While those with shorter stays might have to hold onto the cars until the end, in your case, you could easily manage such risk out of the itinerary.

Before I start making reservations for hotels (that may not be refundable!>>

is there some reason that you would not use booking.com or similar for your bookings? their normal "free cancelation" terms allow you to cancel without penalty up to 24 hours before your arrival date. [you do need to check this for every individual booking, but it is standard on those type of booking].

but before you book anything, get a map! as the other posters have pointed out, some of your choices of places to stay don't make much sense, and you will generally see more if you stay longer in fewer places.

I agree with everything that's been said so far - especially about booking.com for making reservations. Very easy to cancel if you do want to change things between now and the trip and they have a good selection and good prices. Also about leaving Rome for the end of the trip, although I've had trips where I did a few days at the beginning and a few at the end in Rome and enjoyed breaking it up that way.

You have a whole month and the only coast area you have is one night in the Cinque Terre. Would you consider a few nights on the Amalfi Coast. I say that since you are certain you want Pompeii so you are going to be almost that far south anyway. You could train from Rome to Sorrento (need to change to a local train in Naples) and spend a few nights in Sorrento and do Pompeii as a day trip from there. It's only a half hour, we were easily able to be at Pompeii before it opened when we did it as a day trip from Sorrento. And the modern town of Pompeii doesn't have a lot in terms of lodging and things to do so basing in Sorrento would be more pleasant. Then you could add a couple of day trips to Amalfi or Capri, etc.

You definitely want a car for Tuscany, and possibly also for the Veneto but not for Florence or Venice so you could either group things so that you only need one rental or else do two, but don't keep the car the whole time. Agree on doing both Lucca and Pisa as one day trip from Florence.

In the Veneto you are rushing too much to do Lake Garda and Verona in one day. You 'need' a minimum of one for each. Also Bologna is a wonderful place that 'deserves' more time. Ravenna is an easy enough day trip from Bologna. I've done three trips to that area in recent years, I guess it is becoming one of my favorite areas in Italy. Here are a couple of the trip reports which might give you some ideas of what there is and timing. Also a link to my photos - photography is one of the major reasons I travel. http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/italy-lombardy-veneto-emile-romagna-and-a-little-bits-of-the-lakes.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/amalfi-coast-rome-and-croatia-images-of-three-hot-but-wonderful-weeks.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/isabels-summer-trip-photos---to-italy-vienna-and-budapest.cfm

In your itinerary you repeatedly say 'sleep near..." I'm not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean find a motel like place outside of a town center or do you mean you just haven't decided which town to stay in? Because one of the best things about Italy is the atmosphere in the towns in the evenings and while there are a few motel like places on the highways between towns you'd be missing a lot if you do that very much. On the other hand, parking is an issue in even smallish towns which is why a lot of people do at least a big portion of the trip by train so you don't have to deal with driving in restricted zones and finding (and paying for) parking.

as above and look at Ravenna to see if you can sleep in Regio Emilio or move that accommodation down to cover more cities

Some other ideas:

I agree that in terms of car rental, parking and being in/near cities like Florence, if you could group your big-city stays near the end, then you could get rid of the rental car, and take the train back to Rome. For example, if you could move Venice to the end, then you could drop your rental car in Venice.

Ravenna is out of the way in the itinerary right now. You could easily visit Ravenna as a day when in the Parma / Bologna area.

If you drive to Florence, visit Chianti on your way from Siena to Florence.

It depends on your interests, of course, but I would spend more time in the Cinque Terre.

For your southern and northern Tuscany pieces, consider staying somewhere a little further south (Pienza?) and a little further north, maybe even San Gimignano. Yes, it's crushed by tourists during the day, but at night, it's charming.

If you get burned out quickly on art, I would suggest doing a day trip from Florence to see Pisa and/ or Lucca, and add on your two Lucca nights to Cinque Terre. You will find its very photogenic, especially from the trails. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother going to CT for one night.

Agree with above that Verona and Lake Garda each need a day, especially as you are not staying overnight there.
Do consider taking the train for at least part of your trip, unless you are going to have a lot of luggage.

We did Ravenna on our way through from Venice to Umbria, but only had time to see a few things, as its more time consuming than you might realize finding parking, walking to and from the sights, finding lunch, etc. We were okay with that, but just know you probably won't see everything.
Ravenna is one of the places where you are allowed to take photos inside the churches. You cannot in Assisi.
After spending 5 weeks in Italy this past fall, and going with a packed itinerary like yours, I found that we didn't have time to really 'see' a lot of the places we visited. And some of the things I really wanted to see just didn't happen because we ran out of time and/ or energy.

Just saying...you can never see it all, and, know that you will be going back!

i agree with sundried that an itinerary like this is going to be very tiring, and probably not give you what you want.

I think that i would divide the trip into 3 sections - a week in rome [which i would put at the end] a week on the Bay of Naples, [where you can both relax and sight-see, and not need a car] and two weeks exploring the area between Rome and Venice.

my rough itinerary would look like this:

Day 1 - arrive Rome, train to Orvieto. stay night.
day 2 - pick up car and spend next 10 days or so exploring Umbria/tuscany.
Day 12 - arrive Venice, return car. stay venice - 3-4 nights.
Day 16 - fly to Naples. train/hire car to Sorrento. stay 7 nights.
Day 23 - train to Rome.

IMO it gives you a good structure to the trip, puts all the driving together, and means that there are no long drives, as you get the longest stretch done by an internal flight. you could book all the long stays, [and Venice] but with 2 of you, you could probably wing the 10 days driving, booking as you go along. you would certainly have plenty of time to consider your many options.

Thanks, everyone for all the info -- Definitely more to work through!

When I said 'sleep near', I meant find a base in a nearby town that was reasonable and stay 2-3 days, doing the wagon-wheel day trips out from that point. I'm not sure of the best base for some of these areas that is a good balance between central place to stay and not too much backtracking for day trips.

I've looked at booking.com, and have used them in the past, but we are also looking at apartment rentals in Rome, Florence, Venice. Some do have flexible cancellation plans, others do not. Just wanting to be a bit clearer on where we're going before I commit! I will look at the cities recommnended. I've had a few people suggest San Gimignano as a base for that area, for example. Looking at the maps, I'm just having issue pinpointing where a good 'central point' is for some of the places. I looks like shifting around a few things makes that clearer.

We specifically put Rome at the beginning of the trip -- knowing our travel style, huge cities are best visited early on for us, more energy, more willingness to just wander around than if we try it at the end. I've missed things I really wnted to see in larger cities because we waited until the end of the trip to visit. That's why we put Venice at the end -- smaller, hopefully more manageable. I'll look at some other options, though, thanks for the guidance!

DH and I have waffled on Cinque Terre. It wasn't on our "must see" list, and I am tempted to drop it from this trip (and ad d it back on a second or third trip in the future). A day trip doesn't seem like it's going to let us go more than perhaps take the ferry, do one short walk, and have lunch. Perhaps not worth it, since it's not high on our list.

I do know that a car is troublesome and unnecessary in the larger cities (and some smaller ones) -- but I'm losing the argument with DH about it. We have (in other countries) had a car across the whole trip and simply factored in parking costs in the larger cities as necessary. It has worked out (and is often cheaper, which is weird). I may not win the decision on getting rid of the car, he's pretty attached to it. We don't actually have much luggage, but we really value the ability to chuck the 'plan' and drive off to some little town that wasn't on the list because it looks cool. It has worked really well for us in the past (Scotland, Ireland, Scandinavia, Egypt, England), but Italy seems to come with more warnings than I'm used to.

I definitely want to drive around Lake Garda - I'll shuffle things around to give that a full day.

More info is better -- thanks so much for taking the time to comment, I appreciate it!

Thanks, annhig.

I haven't really considered internal flights -- I'll definitely add that to the mix, since you're right, it would eliminate an end-to-end drive.

Don't miss the Amalfi Coast!!!

One thing to keep in mind about driving in Italy, other than the difficult parking, is the ZTL's - and not just in the big cities. I read a post the other day where someone received 5 ZTL tickets a year after they returned from Italy and it cost them thousands of dollars.

Just something to keep in mind when considering your transportation options.

I wouldn;t go to Pompeii and miss the AC. IMHO worth several days - and you could do a few less in Tuscany. And I would definitely stay in Sorrento - which has a host of hotels and restauarants rather than in pompeii.

I get the keeping the car thing - we usually pick up when we leave the first city and drop when we get to the last, Know that in a couple of places it will just sit in a garage - but renting for longer periods is usually substantially cheaper - as well as not having the tsuras of finding places ot pick up an drop at specific days and times they are open,. Also - I will do almost anything to avoid sort flights within a country - IMHO a long day driving is always easier, more interesting and less aggravating than dealing with airports and being packed into child size seats (I'm 5'9" with long legs and my knees simply don't fit in the regular rows in coach.)

Carmar, we specifically opted out of southern Italy until the next trip (probably 2015). Except pompeii -- we agreed we'd have to see pompeii, and have considered taking the train down instead of the drive, but DH wants to see Anzio and Monte Cassino. Maybe we can pick up the car in Naples, though, and not do the drive both ways. I had originally included a few days in Sorrento, but we decided we'd rather wander aimlessly in Tuscany this time around.

We usually do a month-long trip every other year, and a two week trip in the off years, so I can shift things to the "next trip". Although, that list is getting pretty long, too. How do people with two weeks do "all of Italy"? I boggle. I mean, we are pretty energetic and go-go-go travelers, but I do want more than a day or so in most regions.

ekc, yeah - I've read of people getting tons of tickets for driving in the ZTLs (which often show up much later). I have a list of towns where they are in effect, and (hopefully) good suggestions for parking options in those towns.

We're not against (well, I should say *I* and not opposed to) train travel or buses, but DH is a bit harder to convince. We absolutely use local transportation in the cities, but he hates to be at the mercy of train schedules between larger places. At this point, I'm not going to argue, I guess, and try very hard not to do the 'i told you so' dance if he manages to get a ticket. The tradeoff is paying for parking and the time needed to find it vs the time dealing with luggage and trains and their schedules. I think for him, the latter is annoying while the former isn't. Not sure why.

But, considering that I pretty much do all the scheduling and picking of what to see when, and he deals with logistics, I ca probably let it go.

I'm thinking of dropping Arezzo off the list to be a bit more focused on southern Tuscany so we can find a central place to stay there, perhaps an agriturismo for a week closer to Pienza/Montepulciano. I'll also add another night in Florence so we've got a bit more flexibility and if DH is amenable, drop cinque terre until the N. Italy trip. I'd like to spend more time in general in the riviera, with a couple of days in Cinque Terre -- in hindsight, going a single day is just a bit silly.

Working on grouping Florence/Venice at the end to drop the car earlier, though. That makes a ton of sense, thanks!

nytravler:

> Also - I will do almost anything to avoid sort flights within a country - IMHO a long day driving is always easier, more interesting and less aggravating than dealing with airports and being packed into child size seats (I'm 5'9" with long legs and my knees simply don't fit in the regular rows in coach.)

My DH will thank you for bringing this up: 6'5". Coach is hell. We actually budget for business class seats for the international flights, because of that. Luckly, cc points add up quickly!

I think you've hit on the reason he is so insistent on the car, too -- rather than spend an hour or two in the airport/station, he'd rather be on the road and possibly stopping at something interesting.

I don't mind the drives, to be honest -- in the grand scheme of things, they aren't onerous. And, they have usually led to some of the most interesting days we have had on our trips -- getting lost, finding a tiny town to have lunch, hiking off into fields or seeing the ruin in an out-of-the-way place...)

We do have a long drive at the end of this trip (5-6 hours Venice to Rome) that I'm trying to swap out for a night train so we can just arrive in Rome and head straight to the airport to go home, vs staying at an airport hotel the last night (which is the model we've used in other places).

I don't know what route you are planning from Venice to Rome, but be aware that long delays can occur on the A-1 autostrada due to weather, accidents, or just plain congestion. So your 6 hours may be far too optimistic.

Ah, good point. We do have an entire day to get back -- our flight is not until the next morning, so we aren't going to miss anything.

I was so frustrated by the stupid rules around getting airline tickets with points, we just couldn't make an open-jawed ticket work.

This is, however, a good argument to take the train back -- leaving the car would be easy, and it would be less of a hassle to just catch an evening train and be done with it.

Taking a train back to Rome has its own risk -- sciopero. Here is what it is http://goitaly.about.com/od/italytravelglossary/g/sciopero.htm and here is the schedule of upcoming sciopero http://www.commissionegaranziasciopero.it/scioperoList.

I'm finding it slightly amusing that work-outages and strikes are planned out enough in advance to have a schedule.

I suppose this means allowing plenty of time and a backup plan if there is a deadline to meet with the train schedule. ie, don't have your only choice arrive a few hours before your flight, and be prepared to scramble a bit.

>>>I have a list of towns where they are in effect, and (hopefully) good suggestions for parking options in those towns.<<<

That would be a very long list as most of the towns/cities you've listed have ZTL including small towns such as Pienza and San G.

I still think it's best to put Rome at the end, if only for car purposes. To group your train travel with places a car is the biggest hindrance, I would train to Florence upon arrival (Florence is notorious for ZTL tickets so you really don't want a car there). Spend 3-4 days in Florence with day trips by train to Pisa/Lucca. From Florence, train to Venice for 2-3 nights. Pick up the car as you are leaving Venice, visit lakes area, then Bologna area, next CT and on to Tuscany. After Tuscany, drive to Pompeii (I would drop CT and add that time to the Amalfi coast since Pompeii is a must). Either drop your car in Sorrento or drive to Rome and drop it to end your trip with the last week in Rome.

>>>I'm finding it slightly amusing that work-outages and strikes are planned out enough in advance to have a schedule.<<<

You can book strike proof trains. They are usually the ones during rush hour. They are listed on Trenitalia's website.

It is, indeed, a long list. While I'm glad of it -- no cars/few cars in narrow town streets -- it does cause headaches for travelers.

Discussing with DH, we've dropped Cinque Terre from the list on this trip. A day won't do it justice, and neither one of us has it on the "must see" list for now. We'd rather be able to spend more time, so we'll include it in a trip to N. Italy later. Also trying to go to Florence/Venice in one swoop.

I'm curious why the common thread to "do Rome at the end". I'm not sure I understand why. We would either pick up the car upon leaving on day 8 (and now, try to leave it before florence) or drop it off in Rome on day 24-ish -- is the issue simply the ease/difficulty of getting the car in Rome on the way out, or reluctance to break up train trips with car rental in the middle? kybourbon noted "To group your train travel with places a car is the biggest hindrance" -- by this I assume you meant the hassle of picking up and dropping off a car more than once? Otherwise, we have rome - pick up car - drive in tuscany, veneto, etc, - drop off car - florence - venice. Is there some reason I'm not understanding to go to Florence and Venice first and end up in Rome? With our current rough plan, we would have an additional night near the airport in Rome before leaving on the 6th, but we've often done that (relocate to be near the airport) for very early morning flights. Odd?

[hm. can't edit posts - ETA:]

Has any one stayed in Civita di Bagnoregio? I must admit I'm charmed by the pictures I've seen. Out of the way, what with the walkway, but it might be relaxing. Is it worth the effort?

I think a lot of people recommend Rome at the end because it eliminates the one night stay the night before your flight. We always try to organise our trips the way.

jamikins has given the main reason, but IMO with Rome there is another just as important - your experience in the rest of Italy should help to prepare you for the glorious chaos which is Rome. Bigger, noisier, faster - I'd been to Italy at least half a dozen times before I got to Rome and it still blew me away.

but it does make practical sense to put it at the end - especially with strikes, traffic hold ups, etc, etc, - if you are already there, you don't have to worry about whether you will make your flight, and you don't lose a night at the airport. [though you might still choose to do that, i suppose, depending on how early your flight is].

I like KY's itinerary. it also puts Sorrento towards the end of your trip when the weather may have warmed up sufficiently for swimming.

Since you have eight days allocated for Rome why not break it up and do some at the beginning and some at the end. It would not mean any extra hotel stops since you were planning one for the last night anyway. That last night in Italy can be so wonderful, but not if you're in an airport hotel, which most people look at as a wasted night. Also you mentioned something about lack of energy for large cities, breaking it into two means you are less likely to get tired of it than one long eight day stay. During the rest of the trip you may find yourself saying 'we should have done ____" and this way you'll have the opportunity when you go back.

Since you are dropping the CT, and since you still want to do Pompeii, I really think basing in Sorrento and adding just a couple of days for a 'taste' of the Amalfi Coast is a good idea. You say you are planning that for a future trip, believe me, that won't change just cause you got a couple days on this trip, and it will make the Pompeii portion more enjoyable.

>>>kybourbon noted "To group your train travel with places a car is the biggest hindrance" -- by this I assume you meant the hassle of picking up and dropping off a car more than once?<<<

It's not simply the hassle of picking up a car. Many of these cities you are just not allowed to drive and they aren't easy to navigate around the ZTL if you do pick up a car. You aren't allowed to drive in the center of Rome (ZTL)so you would have to pick up somewhere outside the ZTL and Rome is difficult getting out of (many get turned around trying to drive out of Rome). You aren't allowed to drive in the center of Florence and parking in a garage will run about 35€ a day. You can't drive in Venice so parking charges again.

If you don't understand why having a car for these cities is a hindrance, you need to look at some ZTL maps. Here is the ZTL map for Florence. Click aree ZTL (to show the zone you can't enter) and click autovelox (to show the cameras that snap a pic of your license plate if you enter). Zoom in a bit.
http://news.comune.fi.it/muoversi/retecivica_amm.php?categ=MOBILITAETRASPORTI

ZTL map for Rome.

http://www.agenziamobilita.roma.it/en/ztl/ztl.html

There are similar ZTL maps for almost every city/town you've mentioned.

>>>Is there some reason I'm not understanding to go to Florence and Venice first and end up in Rome?<<<

Yes. It eliminates multiple car rentals. Florence is easy to reach upon arrival by train (90 minutes from Rome) so it's not a lot of travel on arrival day. Venice is easily reached by train from Florence (2 hours). This itinerary positions the two main cities where you absolutely don't need/want a car together. It eliminates a week of rental ($$$) and a week of parking at 30-35€ per day. It then groups your travel where you do want a car together. Rome at the end eliminates another week of car rental ($$$) and avoids going to Rome twice. This itinerary involves one rental. Picking up and returning cars multiple times is a hassle especially when it involves negotiating around ZTL's.

>>>Has any one stayed in Civita di Bagnoregio? I must admit I'm charmed by the pictures I've seen. Out of the way, what with the walkway, but it might be relaxing. Is it worth the effort?<<<

I wouldn't stay there. Much too small, hassle to transport luggage in to Civita for an overnight (wouldn't leave luggage/packages overnight in the car as it will be a distance away in an area not secure). It's worth a stop for an hour or two.

>>>>With our current rough plan, we would have an additional night near the airport in Rome before leaving on the 6th,<<<

Most people don't do this for Rome as you can easily taxi (set fee in Rome to the airport) or arrange a limo transport (similar to taxi price) . Most here will suggest you spend the night in Rome and enjoy your last night instead of being stuck at the airport. I would consider it a waste of a night.

If you haven't already, I suggest you start learning some of the Italian road signs (especially ZTL, parking, camera warnings, etc.). An IDP is required to drive in Italy. Here's a few signs to get you started.

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/road_signs/road_signs_cr2.htm

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/road_signs/road_signs_cr3.htm

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/road_signs/road_signs_cr7.htm

>>>>I do know that a car is troublesome and unnecessary in the larger cities (and some smaller ones) -- but I'm losing the argument with DH about it. We have (in other countries) had a car across the whole trip and simply factored in parking costs in the larger cities as necessary<<<

Your husband is comparing Italy to other countries that don't have the restrictions in the cities/towns that Italy does. You need to let your husband read some of the dozens of threads on this website about people getting tickets in the mail as much as a year later from Italy(yes, Italy has a year to get it to you from the time they get the info from the rental agency).
http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/driving/traffic_cameras_speeding.htm

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/i-received-a-traffic-ticket-from-florence.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/i-just-received-a-traffic-ticket-from-our-italy-trip-3-mos-ago.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/italy-ztl-am-i-in-for-a-gigantic-hassle.cfm

Thanks, all. I appreciate the clarification.

I do understand why a car is hindrance in many of the larger cities, and can be annoying in smaller ones. We may shift our plans to consolidate the larger cities more, but we have dealt with limited traffic areas in other cities in Europe. Perhaps not the level Italy has, but difficult nonetheless. He has been to Italy twice before, I have not, so he's getting more points in the argument than I am. But, we have plenty of time to hash things out. I will definitely point him to the threads here. I'm already a member at Slow travel, I've been following their conversations for a bit, as well regarding driving/parking.

I do speak and read some italian -- enough to get by, so I navigate and he drives. None of our plans involved dropping off and picking up a car twice, since we had initially just planned to ditch the car in a parking garage in Venice. We definitely avoid having to deal with rental car agencies more than once. But it did involve leaving the car in those cities upon arrival and paying the parking costs. Shifting around the order of things does make it easier and avoids those charges, so definitely I'll make those changes.

Hm. Ok, visit Civita di Bagnoregio, but don't bother to stay there. Makes sense. It just looks like such a charming place to relax. But not particularly convenient (as so many of those places are).

We have a flight out of Rome at (I think) 7am. Our last night anywhere after a month is often a bust, so we don't worry too much about being somewhere fabulous. I planned to have dinner somewhere outside of Rome and finish the drive in in the evening and stay near the airport just to allow us to be closer to make such an early flight. We know that works for us, and eliminates the stress of getting anywhere (heck, we've stayed IN the airport in Oslo and Stockholm and London after long trips). Perhaps not everyone's idea of a great "last night", but...anything that lessons the actual stress of plane travel helps.

You all have been an incredible help, thank you. I appreciate the benefit of everyone's experience in Italy --and hope, eventually, to be able to contribute.

Phouka - i'm sure we'll all enjoy reading your trip report.

have a great trip!

I may implode, having to wait until May next year! Usually we don't do quite as much planning, and just sort of wing it. But with visiting bigger cities, I feel like I *should* have a reservation, at least there. We usually have a place to stay when we arrive, a place the last night, and just decide as we go. In may, this is probably possible outside of Rome, Florence, Venice, but (if it's like any other place) can be a crap shoot.

I'll do a flurry of checking on things now, nail down a general itinerary, and then try to relax and practice my italian. Or, (and equally possible), I'll drive DH crazy with constant updates and plans.

I'm sure I'll have tons more questions - I always do about a new destination! Lots to think about, with the suggestions above. Thanks!

phouka - as i said before, i think that you probably can wing the driving portion, so long as you want to stay in fairly small places. [a guide like the michelin one will give you hotel facilities and prices, if you can't get access to the internet on the hoof].

but Rome, Florence, and Venice will definitely require pre-booking.

my technique is to work out my dates, then book somewhere that we know we will like through booking.com, using their free cancellation option. That doesn't stop me looking, but at least i know that we've got somewhere in the bag if i don't find my "ideal" hotel.

I would try to include the Amalfi Coast near the begginning, perhaps Positano with a boat trip to Capri. Easy going and good place to get over your jet lag.

Cinque Terre is wonderful, but really needs more time. You cannot drive to the best villages and there are few places to stay (though if you want just a bedroom you can ask around in the villages, basic and shared bathroom). So try staying somewhere like Santa Margarita and take the (frequent) train east to the smaller water front villages, and try a boat journey for part of it too, the whole thing is best seen from the water - that is how it existed until relatively recently. There are also some great walking trails between villages and some brilliant restaurants.

Overall I would always suggest staying each place for at least 2 or three nights and travelling out from your hotel. It is easier on your system and you get a much better sense of the place you are visiting, the people and the pace of life.There is always the special things you find that weren't in the guide books.

About 35 years ago I spent a month travelling Italy by train. In recent years we tend to hit the cities and beauty spots, but I still remember the adventure of being virtually lost at times on my first trip and finding it the most revealing. Enjoy!

I just wanted to concur with a few thoughts already given:

isabel's suggestion to split Rome into two 4 day stays is excellent. An additional plus (besides the one's she listed) is that you can stay in (and really get to know) two completely different Rome neighborhoods (which you absolutely SHOULD do if you split Rome).

annhig's advice to pre-book accommodations in Rome/Florence/Venice and wing the smaller towns and villages is also spot on.

I just quickly scrolled thru the thread so if I missed any change in these plans, sorry.

"05/13: Pompeii and Herculaneum, Oplontis, sleep in Pompeii
05/14: Drive to Orvieto, (this is a long-ish drive, but we couldn't miss pompeii!), sleep in Orvieto"

If those sites were on my "couldn't miss" list (and they definitely would be) I would add another full day plus add the Naples Archaeological Museum even if I had to drop Herculaneum or Oplontis.

Although I believe the museum has later hours than the sites?
If so, in a long early start day you could cover Oplontis, Herculaneum and the museum or Pompeii and Oplontis or Herculaneum and museum.

Thanks, Rostra -- I think we can get up early, head north, stop in Naples and spend a few hours in the museum (where, I understand, a huge portion of the really spectactular finds from Pompeii are displayed) and plan to arrive in Orvieto by dinner. We'll spend the following day in that area.

I'll check the timing and work that into the plan.

I'm trying to make sure that (for the most part) we stay 3 nights minimum in each place, more if we can. Usually, we're pretty nomadic, but there is simply too much to see and I'd rather not be sleeping someplace different every night on this trip, I think we'd just sail through places and not really 'see' them if we did that.

You would all laugh at the giant calendar on the wall with sticky notes all over it, as I try to move things around and figure out how to best do things!

>>>I think we can get up early, head north, stop in Naples and spend a few hours in the museum <<<

You don't want to drive in Naples.

Hi Phouka,

You will probably scream, but I didn't think your original itinerary needed much revision. I especially think somewhere in the hills around Asciano is a lovely place to be. Sorry to come into this thread so late. I can't follow all the back and forth, so I don't know exactly what your itinerary is anymore, but I wanted to add this article about Vicenza in case you didn't see it:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2012/nov/25/vicenza-italy-travel-architecture-food

There is a Michelin restaurant in Fiumicino if that appeals to you for your last night.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g656615-d1436795-r127125254-Al_Porticciolo_Hotel-Fiumicino_Province_of_Rome_Lazio.html

The Archeological Museum in Naples is very worthwhile, but you don't want to drive there. It's only 30 minutes by train from Pompei to Naples. Leave your luggage at your Pompei hotel while you go to Naples. You don't want to leave it in a parked car in Naples. That sounds like "backtracking", but driving into Naples at rush hour and finding parking will take you more than 30 minutes anyway. As long as you leave Pompei by 3pm -- which will be quite easy, because the museum does not take forever -- you will be in Orvieto before sunset.

There is too much anxiety in this thread, especially the "what if there's a traffic jam?" "what if there's a strike?" "what if it rains? what if what if". Basically, all a lot of people have told you is that they'd prefer a different itinerary that includes this or excludes that or they prefer to travel in some other style. You and your husband seem to know from experience what style works for you, and he's been to Italy before.

I agree - do what works for you. All you can do is take the advice into consideration, and then do what seems to best suit your style. If you find that perhaps you were wrong, then you'll do it differently next time, but it's not like a glitch will be the end of the world, or even the end of a nice vacation.

DH and I are of the school that likes to stay near (or right at) the airport the last night. This works for us, as it makes that departure day that much smoother and stress free. Since we live on the west coast, and our home town is another awkward connection from LA, that return day can be very long.

I question whether it makes sense to leave the car in a garage while in Venice, but that's your call. If hub wants to drive let him drive - let's face it, everything will go better if both halves of the couple are happy ;

If it were me (I wish) I would drop the car upon arriving in Venice and train back to Rome.

Enjoy!