Itinerary - Italy, Budapest & Berlin in winter - Any comments
Jun 18th, 2009, 03:39 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Itinerary - Italy, Budapest & Berlin in winter - Any comments
We have just booked a winter holiday to Europe for December / January (about 7 weeks for Mom and 2 teenage daughters) and 4 weeks for Dad. The skeleton is booked - flights and accommodation - so we are now working on the detail. Any comments on what people have loved (or hated) and useful tips etc are appreciated.
Fly to Rome from Australia (via Hong Kong and Zurich). Train to Florence for 15 nights in an apartment. Mom and 2 daughters are going to "Italian School" for 2 weeks to get a grounding in Italian. Classes are 9am - 1pm, and we hope to do some sightseeing in the afternoons (before / after our homework). In the middle weekend we will probably take a train or bus to Pisa as a day trip (or somewhere else nearby).
From Florence we catch the train to Orvieto for 5 nights in an apartment. We had originally hoped to do our language course in Orvieto, but the course dates and our dates did not coincide. We hope to practise our Italian and get a good feel for the town. Not sure if we will travel out from here as I am not keen on getting a car, and not sure what public transport or day tours are like from here!?
On Christmas Eve we take the train to Rome for 7 nights in an apartment . Quick stock up on supplies that afternoon before Christmas. Dad joins us for the rest of the trip on Christmas Day!! From what I have heard we will probably get the Roma Pass. I was told we get the first 2 museums free so we should select carefully what those two are!? Details to be worked out - frantically reading other trip reports and travel guides.
From Rome we travel to Sorrento for 3 nights in a B&B hotel. Initially we had thought to take the train but I am now considering taking a bus based on some further reading. The idea is to see Pompeii, a bit of the coast and perhaps a day trip to Capri. Being winter we may be guided by the weather.
Spend a night near Naples airport (hotel not yet booked) from where we fly to Venice for 3 nights - staying in an apartment. Haven't yet started to work on any details.
Fly from Venice to Budapest for 6 nights, staying in an apartment. Details to be worked out.
Fly from Budapest to Berlin for 7 nights, staying in an apartment. Details to be worked out.
Fly from Berlin via Zurich to Hong Kong for 2 nights - no accommodation booked yet.
Then home again.
All comments appreciated. As you can see plenty more research and planning to be done, to make what I hope is a memorable holiday. Daughter No. 1 will just have finished high school, so I hope we will make some great memories before she heads into the wider world of university etc. Daughter No. 2 is taking up Beginners Italian for her last 2 years of school, so we thought it would be fun to support her in her learning of a foreign language.
Fly to Rome from Australia (via Hong Kong and Zurich). Train to Florence for 15 nights in an apartment. Mom and 2 daughters are going to "Italian School" for 2 weeks to get a grounding in Italian. Classes are 9am - 1pm, and we hope to do some sightseeing in the afternoons (before / after our homework). In the middle weekend we will probably take a train or bus to Pisa as a day trip (or somewhere else nearby).
From Florence we catch the train to Orvieto for 5 nights in an apartment. We had originally hoped to do our language course in Orvieto, but the course dates and our dates did not coincide. We hope to practise our Italian and get a good feel for the town. Not sure if we will travel out from here as I am not keen on getting a car, and not sure what public transport or day tours are like from here!?
On Christmas Eve we take the train to Rome for 7 nights in an apartment . Quick stock up on supplies that afternoon before Christmas. Dad joins us for the rest of the trip on Christmas Day!! From what I have heard we will probably get the Roma Pass. I was told we get the first 2 museums free so we should select carefully what those two are!? Details to be worked out - frantically reading other trip reports and travel guides.
From Rome we travel to Sorrento for 3 nights in a B&B hotel. Initially we had thought to take the train but I am now considering taking a bus based on some further reading. The idea is to see Pompeii, a bit of the coast and perhaps a day trip to Capri. Being winter we may be guided by the weather.
Spend a night near Naples airport (hotel not yet booked) from where we fly to Venice for 3 nights - staying in an apartment. Haven't yet started to work on any details.
Fly from Venice to Budapest for 6 nights, staying in an apartment. Details to be worked out.
Fly from Budapest to Berlin for 7 nights, staying in an apartment. Details to be worked out.
Fly from Berlin via Zurich to Hong Kong for 2 nights - no accommodation booked yet.
Then home again.
All comments appreciated. As you can see plenty more research and planning to be done, to make what I hope is a memorable holiday. Daughter No. 1 will just have finished high school, so I hope we will make some great memories before she heads into the wider world of university etc. Daughter No. 2 is taking up Beginners Italian for her last 2 years of school, so we thought it would be fun to support her in her learning of a foreign language.
Jun 18th, 2009, 05:06 PM
#2
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well the weather in Berlin and Budapest will be much colder than Italy - real winter - so you have too be sure you have proper winter gear - winter coat, hat, gloves, scarf and waterproof boots. Snow is a distinct possibility.
Italy should be somewhat warmer - but temps can range for highs in the 40s to highs in the low 60;s. (A friend went t Venice at Christmasa about 5 yers ago and it rained every day and was very damp and chilly. She still loved it - said it was better than the crowds and heat in summer.) Expect rain anywhere in Italy. Frankly I wouldn't do the AC since so many things will be closed - and getting out to Capri depends on the weather. (We'll do the beach in winter for brief periods - but it's nearby and we have free use of a friend's house. It;s not something I would pay to do.)
Also you need to realize that it will get dark very early and many sights will be on shorter winter hours - so you'll need to plan your sightseeing carefully.
It if were me I wouldn't spend so much time in Italy - cities are fine - but I think the countryside will be mostly brown and crunchy - not much to see/do. Staying in Orvieto I would want a car to be able to easily visit other towns on my own schedule.
Also, things may close quite early in Rome on Christmas Eve - so I would be sure to get there as early as possible to stock up - since nothing will be open on Christmas.
Italy should be somewhat warmer - but temps can range for highs in the 40s to highs in the low 60;s. (A friend went t Venice at Christmasa about 5 yers ago and it rained every day and was very damp and chilly. She still loved it - said it was better than the crowds and heat in summer.) Expect rain anywhere in Italy. Frankly I wouldn't do the AC since so many things will be closed - and getting out to Capri depends on the weather. (We'll do the beach in winter for brief periods - but it's nearby and we have free use of a friend's house. It;s not something I would pay to do.)
Also you need to realize that it will get dark very early and many sights will be on shorter winter hours - so you'll need to plan your sightseeing carefully.
It if were me I wouldn't spend so much time in Italy - cities are fine - but I think the countryside will be mostly brown and crunchy - not much to see/do. Staying in Orvieto I would want a car to be able to easily visit other towns on my own schedule.
Also, things may close quite early in Rome on Christmas Eve - so I would be sure to get there as early as possible to stock up - since nothing will be open on Christmas.
Jun 18th, 2009, 06:17 PM
#3
I think you will need a car for Orvieto to do daytrips or you will get quite bored. Orvieto closes up early at night even when it's not winter so I can't imagine much going on there in the winter. There are a few buses you could use for daytrips, but I doubt it would work well as I'm sure schedules are reduced for winter.
Jun 18th, 2009, 10:28 PM
#4
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think going to Pompeii in winter is an excellent idea.
Orvieto is well connected by train to many Umbrian and Tuscan destination, and you can also foray into Rome if you get bored. There is an excellent Etruscan museum 30 minutes away in Chiusi, Cortona is only an hour away, Terni is a much admired and under touristed town. In addition, buses go to Perugia regularly (the trip takes an hour).
I wouldn't want to rent a car in winter to visit hilltowns.
In Italy in winter, the hillsides are not "brown and crunchy." There are green. They are brown and crunchy in summer.
You should bring some basic supplies with you from Orvieto because things will shut up tight in Rome early on Christmas eve and stay that way for a few days. But don't worry, you won't starve.
I have to add that I'm amazed at some of the nonsense that is in the above posts about Italy.
Orvieto is well connected by train to many Umbrian and Tuscan destination, and you can also foray into Rome if you get bored. There is an excellent Etruscan museum 30 minutes away in Chiusi, Cortona is only an hour away, Terni is a much admired and under touristed town. In addition, buses go to Perugia regularly (the trip takes an hour).
I wouldn't want to rent a car in winter to visit hilltowns.
In Italy in winter, the hillsides are not "brown and crunchy." There are green. They are brown and crunchy in summer.
You should bring some basic supplies with you from Orvieto because things will shut up tight in Rome early on Christmas eve and stay that way for a few days. But don't worry, you won't starve.
I have to add that I'm amazed at some of the nonsense that is in the above posts about Italy.
Jun 18th, 2009, 10:35 PM
#6
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, I have to add that going to Italy in winter when there are fewer tourists around will be great in supporting your daughter's acquisition of Italian. Orvieto is actually a real Italian town beyond the tourist spots where many people live. The idea that there is "not much going on" is ridiculous, especially when you consider that Orvieto hosts one of Italy's biggest music festivals during the week before New Year's. So you'll see plenty of activity -- perhaps not people putting on a show for tourists and selling tourist items, but you might prefer it.
Jun 19th, 2009, 03:33 AM
#7
I think Aramis andBob had it right on another thread.
>>>>Aramis on Jun 17, 09 at 05:24 PM
Zeppole;
'no major museum, architectural or other "culture" sights' is not the equivalent of "nothing of cultural interest". It's not going to be news to anyone that there are sites worthy of fascination in virtually every region, town, and village anywhere. The scale is a relative one. Perhaps "all mood" was my error, if any, but I think that a complete and reasoned reading would get most even tempered folks to the essence of the reply. Your second paragraph is pretty much supportive of the point I was trying to make and the reason that most (I said "most", not "all" so don't even think about it) people are anxious to visit CT.
I encourage you to continue posting what you want, even when you accuse others of being "uninterested", generalize about and misquote their comments, and presume to have the intellectual clout to direct whether others are fit to respond.
If you would like to post your email I, and other interested posters, can consider providing you with previews of our proposed responses on all of the topics on which you feel you are best qualified to respond. We will need a list of the topics, too.<<<
>>bobthenavigator on Jun 17, 09 at 05:37 PM
Good idea !
Why not have Zeppole screeen and edit our posts in advance. It will help to develop her contrarian attitude.<<<
>>>>Aramis on Jun 17, 09 at 05:24 PM
Zeppole;
'no major museum, architectural or other "culture" sights' is not the equivalent of "nothing of cultural interest". It's not going to be news to anyone that there are sites worthy of fascination in virtually every region, town, and village anywhere. The scale is a relative one. Perhaps "all mood" was my error, if any, but I think that a complete and reasoned reading would get most even tempered folks to the essence of the reply. Your second paragraph is pretty much supportive of the point I was trying to make and the reason that most (I said "most", not "all" so don't even think about it) people are anxious to visit CT.
I encourage you to continue posting what you want, even when you accuse others of being "uninterested", generalize about and misquote their comments, and presume to have the intellectual clout to direct whether others are fit to respond.
If you would like to post your email I, and other interested posters, can consider providing you with previews of our proposed responses on all of the topics on which you feel you are best qualified to respond. We will need a list of the topics, too.<<<
>>bobthenavigator on Jun 17, 09 at 05:37 PM
Good idea !
Why not have Zeppole screeen and edit our posts in advance. It will help to develop her contrarian attitude.<<<
Jul 15th, 2009, 03:51 AM
#8
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am new to this but I am very interested in what ALL of you have to say. I will start a new thread on my own christmas issues... I am reassured by zeppple's Pompeii affirmation!...please say more.
and "{ you will not starve on Christmas." Can one arrive in Rome or Orvieto on the 25th or 26th and find restaurants open and assessable? My wife's favorite city!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and "{ you will not starve on Christmas." Can one arrive in Rome or Orvieto on the 25th or 26th and find restaurants open and assessable? My wife's favorite city!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 23rd, 2009, 09:35 AM
#10
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are unsure about Orvieto, you might spend your five days in Perugia instead. It is a picturesque hilltown, has some wonderful museums, is a university town (so something is always going on), and has good bus and train connections for daytrips to a number of other places of interest: Assisi, Gubbio, Cortona . . .
Jul 23rd, 2009, 02:06 PM
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi YK
I cannot remember how we stumbled upon our apartment in Berlin - we read Fodor's reviews ... tripadvisor ... etc and explored what seemed like endless websites. A friend recommended a very nice apartment in Berlin that she stayed in last December, but their January rates were not on their website and 2 emails got no response ... so we moved on. We have settled on an apartment near Checkpoint Charlie (http://www.waytostay.com/propertydet...#an_calculator) - it looks good so here's hoping it all works out well.
ellenem,
thanks for the Perugia suggestion - we did look at staying there but Orvieto seemed to be the town we really wanted to stay in - nice accommodation too - so we have booked. We would very much like to get to Assisi and also Perugia, but have decided we will "go with open minds" - nothing preplanned, but just embrace opportunities that come along. If need be I will hire a car - that should be "fun" - me and 2 teenage daughters!!
I cannot remember how we stumbled upon our apartment in Berlin - we read Fodor's reviews ... tripadvisor ... etc and explored what seemed like endless websites. A friend recommended a very nice apartment in Berlin that she stayed in last December, but their January rates were not on their website and 2 emails got no response ... so we moved on. We have settled on an apartment near Checkpoint Charlie (http://www.waytostay.com/propertydet...#an_calculator) - it looks good so here's hoping it all works out well.
ellenem,
thanks for the Perugia suggestion - we did look at staying there but Orvieto seemed to be the town we really wanted to stay in - nice accommodation too - so we have booked. We would very much like to get to Assisi and also Perugia, but have decided we will "go with open minds" - nothing preplanned, but just embrace opportunities that come along. If need be I will hire a car - that should be "fun" - me and 2 teenage daughters!!
Jul 23rd, 2009, 02:22 PM
#12
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PRLCH,
Sorry I forgot about this thread until now.
By all means, play it by ear, including when it comes to car rental. You may be favored with sunny dry weather -- but Orvieto can be foggy and you can never rule out the possibility of snow and ice at that time of year. And since the days are going to be very short, with the sun gone by 4pm or so, daytripping by car can be mean very short day trips because driving in the dark in that part of Italy is really a challenge. However, if once you are there, and everything looks hunky-dory for driving and you like to get up early, there is a rental office rent there in Orvieto and not much competition for cars at that time of year.
Discounting for my so called "contrarianism," it's a puzzle to me why people who go to that area never develop a curiosity about the Etruscans who are deeply responsible for so much of we now love as "Tuscany." Staying in Orvieto, a quite dramatic Etruscan tufa town, you may find yourself more curious than most. The Etruscan museum in Chiusi is only two floor but one of the very best of its kind, with lots of beautiful objects and well-labeled and well-lit. It's a very easy train hop from Orvieto, and can be one on the spur of the moment.
Have a great trip.
Sorry I forgot about this thread until now.
By all means, play it by ear, including when it comes to car rental. You may be favored with sunny dry weather -- but Orvieto can be foggy and you can never rule out the possibility of snow and ice at that time of year. And since the days are going to be very short, with the sun gone by 4pm or so, daytripping by car can be mean very short day trips because driving in the dark in that part of Italy is really a challenge. However, if once you are there, and everything looks hunky-dory for driving and you like to get up early, there is a rental office rent there in Orvieto and not much competition for cars at that time of year.
Discounting for my so called "contrarianism," it's a puzzle to me why people who go to that area never develop a curiosity about the Etruscans who are deeply responsible for so much of we now love as "Tuscany." Staying in Orvieto, a quite dramatic Etruscan tufa town, you may find yourself more curious than most. The Etruscan museum in Chiusi is only two floor but one of the very best of its kind, with lots of beautiful objects and well-labeled and well-lit. It's a very easy train hop from Orvieto, and can be one on the spur of the moment.
Have a great trip.
Jul 23rd, 2009, 02:29 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 25,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PRLCH, thanks for the link. The apts on waytostay website looks really nice. Have you used that company in the past? I can't find any reviews of that website which always make me feel a little uneasy.
Jul 23rd, 2009, 02:30 PM
#14
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,422
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh! And you asked me about Pompeii in winter.
It's just so HOT in summer. It's best to go in winter. It's a completely open site, so if you get pouring rain or unseasonable freezing, that's no good. But otherwise, brisk weather will be great.
Also, if you are near Napol and don't mind the riotous chaotic no-holds-barred hysteria that is the normal workaday feel of the town, it is extremely worthwhile to go to the museum there to see the treasures from Pompeii now house there. Plus, at that time of year, Napoli has on display all its very famous and historically important Christmas figurines, elaborately carved, often witty and modern. They are called "presepe" and Napoli is the very apex of this particular Italian tradition. You can do google searches to locate the precise area of town -- right in the most atmospheric old quarter -- where they can be seen. And do not miss the Cappella San Severo in Napoli either if you are in town.
As for Christmas dining in Roma, head for the Jewish quarter. In Orvieto, consult with your hotel. Lots of Italians make going out on Christmas day for a big restaurant lunch a tradition. But a lot of restos close. Likewise on Christmas eve, and sometimes the day after depending if locals celebrate St Stephen's feast day.
It's just so HOT in summer. It's best to go in winter. It's a completely open site, so if you get pouring rain or unseasonable freezing, that's no good. But otherwise, brisk weather will be great.
Also, if you are near Napol and don't mind the riotous chaotic no-holds-barred hysteria that is the normal workaday feel of the town, it is extremely worthwhile to go to the museum there to see the treasures from Pompeii now house there. Plus, at that time of year, Napoli has on display all its very famous and historically important Christmas figurines, elaborately carved, often witty and modern. They are called "presepe" and Napoli is the very apex of this particular Italian tradition. You can do google searches to locate the precise area of town -- right in the most atmospheric old quarter -- where they can be seen. And do not miss the Cappella San Severo in Napoli either if you are in town.
As for Christmas dining in Roma, head for the Jewish quarter. In Orvieto, consult with your hotel. Lots of Italians make going out on Christmas day for a big restaurant lunch a tradition. But a lot of restos close. Likewise on Christmas eve, and sometimes the day after depending if locals celebrate St Stephen's feast day.
Jul 26th, 2009, 02:27 PM
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi YK
You are probably correct about the lack of reviews of Way to Stay. It is a Spanish based organisation - and I have seen it referred to under Spain apartments on Fodors - although as you say no reviews. I think I am fairly comfortable with our decision - I am a little bit trusting I guess. This is not the first time we have booked an apartment through an "unknown" and so far we have had good success. In fact, I am more comfortable with this arrangement than previous ones where we have had to send a bank draft for the full amount before arrival - now that gave me some sleepless nights!! This one however required a 25% deposit via credit card with balance upon arrival. So at worst, I am without my 25% deposit, which I would actively pursue through my credit card provider if it proved to be a dud (I believe we would be covered under credit card legislation).
At any rate, I will be sure to report back when we get home - perhaps there is one more great apartment provider none of us has yet discovered!?
Thank also to Zeppole and all other contributors - your comments are fueling my enthusiasm for our trip - just over 4 months before we head off. Booked our last accommodation (Hong Kong) yesterday and are very excited!!
You are probably correct about the lack of reviews of Way to Stay. It is a Spanish based organisation - and I have seen it referred to under Spain apartments on Fodors - although as you say no reviews. I think I am fairly comfortable with our decision - I am a little bit trusting I guess. This is not the first time we have booked an apartment through an "unknown" and so far we have had good success. In fact, I am more comfortable with this arrangement than previous ones where we have had to send a bank draft for the full amount before arrival - now that gave me some sleepless nights!! This one however required a 25% deposit via credit card with balance upon arrival. So at worst, I am without my 25% deposit, which I would actively pursue through my credit card provider if it proved to be a dud (I believe we would be covered under credit card legislation).
At any rate, I will be sure to report back when we get home - perhaps there is one more great apartment provider none of us has yet discovered!?
Thank also to Zeppole and all other contributors - your comments are fueling my enthusiasm for our trip - just over 4 months before we head off. Booked our last accommodation (Hong Kong) yesterday and are very excited!!
Jul 26th, 2009, 07:01 PM
#16
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 25,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PRLCH, thanks for your input. I decided to go with a different company for our apartment rental in Berlin - a place that was reviewed positively by a long-time Fodorite here, and it is quite a bit cheaper than many of the WaytoStay apartments. However, please do report back of your experience with this company.
To me, WaytoStay still looks like a listing agent, with the apts owned by private individuals. However, it also looks like WaytoStay deals with payments and such, so it's not as "hands-off" as some other apt listing websites, such as vrbo or homeaway.
To me, WaytoStay still looks like a listing agent, with the apts owned by private individuals. However, it also looks like WaytoStay deals with payments and such, so it's not as "hands-off" as some other apt listing websites, such as vrbo or homeaway.
