Itinerary help needed for month in France.
Feb 13th, 2016, 06:11 PM
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Itinerary help needed for month in France.
I have been working on an itinerary for way too long. I am now going to toss it out to those of you with real knowledge so I can actually make more solid plans and some reservations. WE WILL BE USING PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, so keep that in mind.
Having eliminated Chamonix,, Carcassone, Colmar, and a quick jaunt to Figueres (!) this is what I have outlined. What I am hoping, is that someone can offer alternatives to these rather cliched locations, which I cannot do myself, having no way to make comparisons. Same goes for how long to spend in each, or not when not to actually move from one place to another.
Our goal is to enjoy France, not to see all that is to be seen or do it all. I want a mix of staying in great villages (Annecy and Isle sur la Sorgue for example,) some seaside beauty and coastal hikes, and some city time, as in Lyon,Marseille and Paris. I would LOVE to have suggestions for a "different Paris experience" but we'll get to that later on.
Fly San Francisco to CDG, then rail from CDG to Lyon, if we have a morning arrival.
Day 1 Air
Day 2 CDG to Lyon
Day 2 (part) 3 and 4 Lyon (Jet-lagged but hopefully partially functional)
Day 5 Lyon then to Annecy for 4 nights (Days 5,6,7,and 8 in Annecy, because it sounds wonderful)
Day 9 To Avignon via Lyon ???
Day 9,10,and 11 in Avignon (Orange, Pont du Gard, Nimes, Uzes, as desired while there)
Day 12 To Isle sur la Sorgue (to just enjoy being there)
Day 12,13,14,15 in Sur la Sorgue
Day 16, 17, in Arles (?) to include St.Remy
Day 18,19, and 20 in Cassis (Seaside experience)
Day 21.22.and 23 in Marseille
Day 24 TGV Marseille to Paris
Day 24 through 29 in Paris area then
Day 30 Fly back to SFO
I expect to use trains, buses, minibus tours on occasion, and to include some kayaking, little cruises, hiking, etc. as the spirit moves and the weather allows.
I really do welcome your suggestions and criticisms. I am anxious and excited to hear from you. Thank you in advance.
Having eliminated Chamonix,, Carcassone, Colmar, and a quick jaunt to Figueres (!) this is what I have outlined. What I am hoping, is that someone can offer alternatives to these rather cliched locations, which I cannot do myself, having no way to make comparisons. Same goes for how long to spend in each, or not when not to actually move from one place to another.
Our goal is to enjoy France, not to see all that is to be seen or do it all. I want a mix of staying in great villages (Annecy and Isle sur la Sorgue for example,) some seaside beauty and coastal hikes, and some city time, as in Lyon,Marseille and Paris. I would LOVE to have suggestions for a "different Paris experience" but we'll get to that later on.
Fly San Francisco to CDG, then rail from CDG to Lyon, if we have a morning arrival.
Day 1 Air
Day 2 CDG to Lyon
Day 2 (part) 3 and 4 Lyon (Jet-lagged but hopefully partially functional)
Day 5 Lyon then to Annecy for 4 nights (Days 5,6,7,and 8 in Annecy, because it sounds wonderful)
Day 9 To Avignon via Lyon ???
Day 9,10,and 11 in Avignon (Orange, Pont du Gard, Nimes, Uzes, as desired while there)
Day 12 To Isle sur la Sorgue (to just enjoy being there)
Day 12,13,14,15 in Sur la Sorgue
Day 16, 17, in Arles (?) to include St.Remy
Day 18,19, and 20 in Cassis (Seaside experience)
Day 21.22.and 23 in Marseille
Day 24 TGV Marseille to Paris
Day 24 through 29 in Paris area then
Day 30 Fly back to SFO
I expect to use trains, buses, minibus tours on occasion, and to include some kayaking, little cruises, hiking, etc. as the spirit moves and the weather allows.
I really do welcome your suggestions and criticisms. I am anxious and excited to hear from you. Thank you in advance.
Feb 13th, 2016, 06:52 PM
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So, you're confining yourself to the south-east corner of France, plus Paris. Which is fine, if that's your deliberate choice. Choosing destinations is such a personal thing, any suggestions I make are just my take on it. They may not suit you. But you're spending a day or two longer at some places than I could really justify (Annecy, Isle sur la Sorgue); obviously you've researched them and believe there's enough there to hold your interest. You're spending time in more big cities than I would (Lyon, Avignon, Marseille, Arles, Nimes, Paris); I find cities less restful, and would change this - by covering Avignon from Isle sur la Sorge, Arles from St Remy, for example. St Remy is a nice place to stay (don't overlook Les Baux des Provence from there); and another one you mention that I'd give more time to (if you can save some days with these suggestions) is Uzes. I wouldn't fret too much about the jetlag if you're only going from SF.
Feb 13th, 2016, 08:48 PM
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I have to disagree about not worrying about jet leg when flying from San Francisco to France. That's a long flight, and we're always tired on arrival. There are very few direct flights these days, which means time at Dallas (or elsewhere, now that schedules are increasingly NOT non-stop) until the connecting flight. That generally takes 2-3 hours of waiting time. So putting it all together, the trip time is anywhere from 10 to 15 hours.
Feb 13th, 2016, 09:30 PM
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Thanks for the jet lag defense, Underhill. Unless paying for cushy flights, the minimum flight to France is 10hrs 50 minutes. I'd be delighted to get that Also, we are in our 70's and have found that we don't adjust as rapidly as we used to. twoflower couldn't have known all that.
Twoflower, You must be a touch-and-go traveler! If I wanted to spend two nights and one day in a place, I would take a tour! But I think doing Lyon from Annecy sounds like a good plan.
Do notice, that I only have two nights in Arles and none in Nimes. Those places with 2-3 nights are bases from which to take public transportation elsewhere. It's not as efficient as driving, so extra time has to be allowed.
When you see 3 nights in a place, that means I plan to do day trips or tours to neighboring villages. One day may be enough to "do" a city, but we like to also 'enjoy" where we go.
I want to savor Paris. Have spent a week there in the past, will likely choose an outlying area this time, also doing day trips as desired.
I usually book lodging at the first and last places, and do the rest through the Tourist Information on arrival, as we go along. That way we can move at our preferred pace, and move on when we wish. We always find places we like, small, light, a little outdoor area or garden, and well located are our requirements...
truly dislike cookie cutter and large hotels.
That being said, one has to have an outline to keep some order in one's itinerary. Extra time can just open new opportunities...like maybe making it to Carcassone or Normandy.
I really do appreciate your comments. Sometimes it makes my own desires more obvious. Please bring them on!
Twoflower, You must be a touch-and-go traveler! If I wanted to spend two nights and one day in a place, I would take a tour! But I think doing Lyon from Annecy sounds like a good plan.
Do notice, that I only have two nights in Arles and none in Nimes. Those places with 2-3 nights are bases from which to take public transportation elsewhere. It's not as efficient as driving, so extra time has to be allowed.
When you see 3 nights in a place, that means I plan to do day trips or tours to neighboring villages. One day may be enough to "do" a city, but we like to also 'enjoy" where we go.
I want to savor Paris. Have spent a week there in the past, will likely choose an outlying area this time, also doing day trips as desired.
I usually book lodging at the first and last places, and do the rest through the Tourist Information on arrival, as we go along. That way we can move at our preferred pace, and move on when we wish. We always find places we like, small, light, a little outdoor area or garden, and well located are our requirements...
truly dislike cookie cutter and large hotels.
That being said, one has to have an outline to keep some order in one's itinerary. Extra time can just open new opportunities...like maybe making it to Carcassone or Normandy.
I really do appreciate your comments. Sometimes it makes my own desires more obvious. Please bring them on!
Feb 14th, 2016, 12:53 AM
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The logical flow of travel would be in a clockwise direction from Paris to Annecy to Marseille then Avignon and TGV back to Paris from Avignon.
That´s a good amount of time in Annecy. A couple of days would be maximum for me but I have a car. Cassis is a wonderful place but understand that it is very small with very little to do, other than relax, particularly for the amount of time you have allocated. It´s also a long, steep walk from the Cassis train station to Cassis. What month are you planning this trip? Casasis in August (or anytime in summer) will be a madhouse. At least you will not have to worry about parking.
You do not have sufficient time in Avignon to see the items on your list, even if you had a car. Avignon is centrally located with excellent transportation links but if you really want to visit Nîmes, Orange, Pont du Gard, and Uzès based from Avignon, and that´s what I would suggest, you´ll need more time. It will take you most of a day to reach Avignon from Annecy by train further reducing you allocated time there. St Rémy may be easier to visit from Avignon by coach (it´s under 15 minutes) than from Arles.
Here is a map of train links in Provence to help you plan:
http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/p...cm65-18528.pdf
You should also consult these train resources:
www.capitaintrain.com
www.voyages-sncf.com
www.ter-sncf.com
I would strongly suggest you cut days from Annecy and l´Ile sur la Sorgue and add days to Avignon. Without a car, you will be very limited as to what you can see from l´Ile sur la Sorgue. Going anywhere by public transportation from there will probably mean first returning to Avignon.
Overall, it sounds like a very enjoyable vacation. The errors I see are in underestimating what can be realistically done using public transportation and in not fully researching available transportation links to/from your chosen destinations.
That´s a good amount of time in Annecy. A couple of days would be maximum for me but I have a car. Cassis is a wonderful place but understand that it is very small with very little to do, other than relax, particularly for the amount of time you have allocated. It´s also a long, steep walk from the Cassis train station to Cassis. What month are you planning this trip? Casasis in August (or anytime in summer) will be a madhouse. At least you will not have to worry about parking.
You do not have sufficient time in Avignon to see the items on your list, even if you had a car. Avignon is centrally located with excellent transportation links but if you really want to visit Nîmes, Orange, Pont du Gard, and Uzès based from Avignon, and that´s what I would suggest, you´ll need more time. It will take you most of a day to reach Avignon from Annecy by train further reducing you allocated time there. St Rémy may be easier to visit from Avignon by coach (it´s under 15 minutes) than from Arles.
Here is a map of train links in Provence to help you plan:
http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/p...cm65-18528.pdf
You should also consult these train resources:
www.capitaintrain.com
www.voyages-sncf.com
www.ter-sncf.com
I would strongly suggest you cut days from Annecy and l´Ile sur la Sorgue and add days to Avignon. Without a car, you will be very limited as to what you can see from l´Ile sur la Sorgue. Going anywhere by public transportation from there will probably mean first returning to Avignon.
Overall, it sounds like a very enjoyable vacation. The errors I see are in underestimating what can be realistically done using public transportation and in not fully researching available transportation links to/from your chosen destinations.
Feb 14th, 2016, 01:25 AM
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Sarastro answered some of what I would have pointed to : not that easy to circulate without a car imo.
So double check in order not to be stuck in a remote place and yes france works with hubs.
Enjoy.
So double check in order not to be stuck in a remote place and yes france works with hubs.
Enjoy.
Feb 14th, 2016, 03:28 AM
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Great advice from Sarastro.
I do think that this is too much moving around, especially without a car. Driving between small towns and villages in France is such a pleasure - is there a reason why you don't want to do this?
I have friends, who are in their 70s and they rented a car and explored the countryside for 7 weeks last summer, from a base in Provence.
I do think that this is too much moving around, especially without a car. Driving between small towns and villages in France is such a pleasure - is there a reason why you don't want to do this?
I have friends, who are in their 70s and they rented a car and explored the countryside for 7 weeks last summer, from a base in Provence.
Feb 14th, 2016, 06:59 AM
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I too recommend less time in l'Isle sur la Sorgue. Maybe go there on Saturday so you can get to the market early on Sunday. You'll have much better transportation options from Avignon. In fact, I would consider spending the entire Provence time in Avignon - unless you have lots of money to spend on a private driver who can take you to Uzes, Pont du Gard, Luberon, etc. You might get an apt/gite in Avignon so you can go the les Halles food market & get something for dinner and cook at home a few times.
Like twoflower indicated - that's a lotta time in large cities. Annecy is a large city (pop 52,000). Perhaps spend 3 night in a Luberon village like Lourmarin, Bonnieux, St Saturnin, Menerbes, etc. to get a "village feel".
Cassis took my wife about 30 minutes to thoroughly "shop". It's quite small and a little difficult to get to.
I'm a 40 year San Francisco Bay Area resident and we fly to France for vacation twice a year. Air France has 2 direct flights daily and United has 1. We often fly United to Nice, spend time in Nice, then work our way to Provence, and north - finally the TGV to Paris.
If someone asked me for the best place to stay in France (other than Paris) with good public transportation to the most interesting nearby places - I would choose Nice (second choice would be Lyon). We've been to Nice many, many times. In 2014 we were there for 15 nights in an Apt, and used public transportation to get to wonderful places along the coast and even inland. Any reason you're not going to Nice? UA flight arrives in Nice at 2PM via Frankfurt from SFO.
If you choose to cut some time from Annecy, Chambery is a good place to spend those "cut" days. Good transportation options also.
I certainly would not go to Provence without reservations anytime between April 20 (tons of French holidays in May) and late September.
Stu Dudley
Like twoflower indicated - that's a lotta time in large cities. Annecy is a large city (pop 52,000). Perhaps spend 3 night in a Luberon village like Lourmarin, Bonnieux, St Saturnin, Menerbes, etc. to get a "village feel".
Cassis took my wife about 30 minutes to thoroughly "shop". It's quite small and a little difficult to get to.
I'm a 40 year San Francisco Bay Area resident and we fly to France for vacation twice a year. Air France has 2 direct flights daily and United has 1. We often fly United to Nice, spend time in Nice, then work our way to Provence, and north - finally the TGV to Paris.
If someone asked me for the best place to stay in France (other than Paris) with good public transportation to the most interesting nearby places - I would choose Nice (second choice would be Lyon). We've been to Nice many, many times. In 2014 we were there for 15 nights in an Apt, and used public transportation to get to wonderful places along the coast and even inland. Any reason you're not going to Nice? UA flight arrives in Nice at 2PM via Frankfurt from SFO.
If you choose to cut some time from Annecy, Chambery is a good place to spend those "cut" days. Good transportation options also.
I certainly would not go to Provence without reservations anytime between April 20 (tons of French holidays in May) and late September.
Stu Dudley
Feb 14th, 2016, 07:03 AM
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PS - I'll be 69 shortly and we mostly travel by car so we can get to the countryside easily. The countryside is what keeps us returning to France twice each year for a month's stay each time.
Stu Dudley
Stu Dudley
Feb 14th, 2016, 07:16 AM
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Happy shortly birthday then Stu !
Maybe OP has a good reason for not driving but it is good that U.S. Drivers indicate that it is indeed possible to drive in france. And finding it agreable.
If such is the case I rec driving an automatic in order not add a difficulty.
Maybe OP has a good reason for not driving but it is good that U.S. Drivers indicate that it is indeed possible to drive in france. And finding it agreable.
If such is the case I rec driving an automatic in order not add a difficulty.
Feb 14th, 2016, 11:01 AM
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A big shame that you'll not rent a car, because it will be really limiting.
IMO, too much time in both Annecy and Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, both cliché destinations worth a look-see, but not places to hunker down in, IMO.
At least from Avignon you have some fairly decent public transportation options.
IMO, too much time in both Annecy and Isle-sur-la-Sorgue, both cliché destinations worth a look-see, but not places to hunker down in, IMO.
At least from Avignon you have some fairly decent public transportation options.
Feb 14th, 2016, 11:27 AM
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So many congrats that you have a month, makinghay.
I say shave some days here:
Day 18,19, and 20 in Cassis (Seaside experience)
Day 21.22.and 23 in Marseille
Day 24 TGV Marseille to Paris
And I agree that Cassis could be a day trip--actually from Marseille? Some help here as DH and I visited it on a guided van tour from Aix for a boat trip to see the calanques.
What do you have on your list to see in Marseille?
DH and I loved Nimes and visited it as a day train trip from Aix (I think we bussed to Marseilles and left from there but need to check notes). We tried to take a bus from there to Orange but missed it by minutes.
Arles we also loved but visited it by train from our base in Montpellier (which has a TGV now I do believe).
Can't wait to read what you end up doing.
I say shave some days here:
Day 18,19, and 20 in Cassis (Seaside experience)
Day 21.22.and 23 in Marseille
Day 24 TGV Marseille to Paris
And I agree that Cassis could be a day trip--actually from Marseille? Some help here as DH and I visited it on a guided van tour from Aix for a boat trip to see the calanques.
What do you have on your list to see in Marseille?
DH and I loved Nimes and visited it as a day train trip from Aix (I think we bussed to Marseilles and left from there but need to check notes). We tried to take a bus from there to Orange but missed it by minutes.
Arles we also loved but visited it by train from our base in Montpellier (which has a TGV now I do believe).
Can't wait to read what you end up doing.
Feb 14th, 2016, 12:32 PM
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If you don't have a car, so much time in Isle sur la Sorgue is a mistake IMO. I wouldn't stay there that long even with a car, I don't find it that attractive but it could be a good base for travel, of course, if you had a car. But if you've been there and love it and that's why you want to spend so much time, sure. You could stay in Aix en Provence, instead.
Feb 14th, 2016, 01:35 PM
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I'm back now. Going to work on all these eye opening suggestions and get back to you.
Regarding a car, I did check with a travel club person in Nice (unable to host us this time) who said in her experience, we should NOT rent a car if we want a pleasant, non stressful trip and that public transportation works fine. Also said that because of the holidays and Cannes and Grand Prix, it would be a hectic time to be there. Your opinion? I'd love to follow your lead, Stu, and do the day trips you mentioned from you 2014 trip. Perhaps if we can stay away from the touristy places??? I want to stay in a gite whenever possible.
I am surprised at the suggestion to stay in Avignon, as it IS a big city, though I did have it pegged as the most convenient. By the way, I was taken aback by the population of Annecy. I envisioned it as a small village. I can only grasp so much as I read guide books! Thank you. One forum person said they loved it so much they wanted to "never leave". I then decided it would be one place to linger and just enjoy. No? I had the same sort of experience reading about Isle sur la Sorgue, which sounds and looks absolutely enchanting. Again, no? Perhaps it's all about great photography that I am so influenced.
I can't wait to see the fares on the flights you suggested. I had tried on both sites before, and likely ignored those in the necessary price category...because I'm cheap! I will re-evaluate.
Why didn't I consult the forum in the beginning!!! Next time....
Sarastro, the map is WONDERFUL! I have copied and will enlarge it. I had spent time on train sites, and am quite excited about the 19e specials on the TGV! Isn't that amazing? More reason to get my trip planned so I can take advantage of them. All from Paris. The Captaintrain site is new and I'm anxious to explore it. Thanks so much
f1racedgirl, don't mean to leave you out, I definitely want to move around less.
Must get some yard stuff done and prepare for son coming from London tomorrow. I may not get back for awhile, days even...don't go away! How long do the leave threads on without entries?
Regarding a car, I did check with a travel club person in Nice (unable to host us this time) who said in her experience, we should NOT rent a car if we want a pleasant, non stressful trip and that public transportation works fine. Also said that because of the holidays and Cannes and Grand Prix, it would be a hectic time to be there. Your opinion? I'd love to follow your lead, Stu, and do the day trips you mentioned from you 2014 trip. Perhaps if we can stay away from the touristy places??? I want to stay in a gite whenever possible.
I am surprised at the suggestion to stay in Avignon, as it IS a big city, though I did have it pegged as the most convenient. By the way, I was taken aback by the population of Annecy. I envisioned it as a small village. I can only grasp so much as I read guide books! Thank you. One forum person said they loved it so much they wanted to "never leave". I then decided it would be one place to linger and just enjoy. No? I had the same sort of experience reading about Isle sur la Sorgue, which sounds and looks absolutely enchanting. Again, no? Perhaps it's all about great photography that I am so influenced.
I can't wait to see the fares on the flights you suggested. I had tried on both sites before, and likely ignored those in the necessary price category...because I'm cheap! I will re-evaluate.
Why didn't I consult the forum in the beginning!!! Next time....
Sarastro, the map is WONDERFUL! I have copied and will enlarge it. I had spent time on train sites, and am quite excited about the 19e specials on the TGV! Isn't that amazing? More reason to get my trip planned so I can take advantage of them. All from Paris. The Captaintrain site is new and I'm anxious to explore it. Thanks so much
f1racedgirl, don't mean to leave you out, I definitely want to move around less.
Must get some yard stuff done and prepare for son coming from London tomorrow. I may not get back for awhile, days even...don't go away! How long do the leave threads on without entries?
Feb 14th, 2016, 02:57 PM
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To answer several inquiries about not driving, it just sounds too confusing and stressful with signs in foreign language, roads without shoulders, fast traffic, speedy roundabouts,parking problems...My husband has a meltdown if lost or if frustrations go on for too long. I just feel insecure! I did drive most of our 3 weeks in New Zealand, and that was on the left side of the road. But that was years ago. Perhaps I've just turned chicken after living and driving in my small town for the past 20 years. I used to drive in SF routinely, but now we both prefer the rapid transit instead when possible. We do drive in the mountains in Yosemite and in Tahoe, which may mean something to StuDudley.
What are the possibilities of last minute car rental in a place where it looks doable to us? Would that be outrageously expensive at a local rental place? Anyone try that? In the past we've rented only from Europe Car, as I remember.
What are the possibilities of last minute car rental in a place where it looks doable to us? Would that be outrageously expensive at a local rental place? Anyone try that? In the past we've rented only from Europe Car, as I remember.
Feb 14th, 2016, 03:04 PM
#17
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OH, I realize that I did not tell you that we plan to travel mid-May thru mid-June, but we are flexible, being retired, until I find airline tickets. I wanted to get the most impacted portion done first, before the Cannes (May 14-25), etc. leaving Paris for dessert before leaving. I've no way of even guessing how the many holidays will impact our plans and don't even want to think about strikes!
Feb 14th, 2016, 03:43 PM
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Our fare for SFO to FRA to Nice on 6/14/16, return CDG to SFO on 7/17/16 on UA is $1,909 per person with "Seats Plus" (more leg room)
For SF to CDG to TLS on 8/24/16, return CDG to SFO on 9/25/16 is $1,824 with "Seats Plus" on AF.
I would not have a car in Nice for that short of time and during Cannes festival & Monte Carlo rally. But I would certainly rent one for Provence. I would also want a car in Annecy so I could drive into the Alps (do you have my Annecy itinerary??). "Old" Annecy is small - less than 1/2 day to visit it, IMO, if you do not take any boat trips.
NO WAY should you tour only by public transportation without advanced reservations in May & June. On one of our Annecy trips in June, we arrived there without reservations - during a major fireman's convention. We had trouble securing a room - and my wife speaks French.
Stu Dudley
For SF to CDG to TLS on 8/24/16, return CDG to SFO on 9/25/16 is $1,824 with "Seats Plus" on AF.
I would not have a car in Nice for that short of time and during Cannes festival & Monte Carlo rally. But I would certainly rent one for Provence. I would also want a car in Annecy so I could drive into the Alps (do you have my Annecy itinerary??). "Old" Annecy is small - less than 1/2 day to visit it, IMO, if you do not take any boat trips.
NO WAY should you tour only by public transportation without advanced reservations in May & June. On one of our Annecy trips in June, we arrived there without reservations - during a major fireman's convention. We had trouble securing a room - and my wife speaks French.
Stu Dudley
Feb 14th, 2016, 04:34 PM
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My wife's Shutterfly book for our 2014 trip to the Cote d'Azur & Provence.
https://stududley.shutterfly.com/28
Click "Full screen"
Due to Shutterfly problems, titles & captions are often missing or truncated.
Stu Dudley
https://stududley.shutterfly.com/28
Click "Full screen"
Due to Shutterfly problems, titles & captions are often missing or truncated.
Stu Dudley
Feb 14th, 2016, 05:05 PM
#20
Haven't read most of the post but my initial recommendation would be to fly into Geneva and take the airport bus to Annecy (that is my plan for September). Fly home from Paris.... Called a multi-city ticket on most airline sites.
