Itinerary for Italy

Old Nov 12th, 2015, 12:54 PM
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Itinerary for Italy

Dear Fodorites,

We are planning a trip to Italy in April 2016. We'll be flying into Pisa and returning from Milan. Our stay will be for 17 days and have planned to visit the following locations: Florence for four (4) nights, Bologna for three (3) nights, Santa Maria Ligure for two (2) nights, Genoa for three (3) nights, Stresa for three (3) nights and Milano for two (2) nights. I would like to have guidance as to the sequence, previously noted, of the cities we'd like to visit. Our main interests are eating, drinking great wine and enjoying the dolce vita as offered by each city. Thanks in advance for your guidance.
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Old Nov 12th, 2015, 02:11 PM
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Are you going by car or train or bike or hike or?

Trains can easily reach all those places and once in say Stresa boats go all around the lovely lake. Portofino is a lovely hike from SML or boat or bus ride - very very close - but otherwise trains are great and in Italian cities like Bologna and Genoa a complete hassle - wide swaths of city centres are not off-limits to cars and parking can be expensive and hard to find - city center hotels may not offer it or if they do at an arm and a leg's cost.

Consider the train - check www.trenitalia.com for schedules though trains in Italy roll just about everywhere all the timer - most of your train trips would be short so you could take dirt-cheap regional trains where you just buy tickets at the station or for long-distance trains check the Trenitalia site for nifty discounts. For general info on Italian trains check www.seat61.com- great info on discounted tickets from Trenitalia.com and for general info www.rticksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

The week before and after Easter can be very hectic so book rooms in resort areas well well ahead of time. BTW you have a neat trip outlined - not too fast not too slow. I loved Bologna and feel it is a sadly neglected place by many here when planning Italian sojourns - in the train station check out the Memorial to victims of anarchists' bombs that killed dozens in a waiting room years ago - the cracked wall is still there as a memorial with all the names on a wall - a couple of young American backpackers unfortunately were caught up in it and perished. A maudlin but sobering site often overlooked when passing thru the station.
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 12:22 AM
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Given your interests and the time of year you are going, this is what I suggest you do:

Fly into Pisa, take train to Florence
Take train from Florence to Bologna
Take train from Bologna to Parma, spend 1 or 2 nights in Parma
Train from Parma to Santa Margherita Ligure
Train from Santa Margherita Ligure to Milan
Train from Milan to Stresa
Bus from Stresa to Malpensa airport

Given the way you describe your interests, I am suggesting you eliminate Genova or else make it a day visit on your way to Milan (you can store your luggage at the train station). It is a pleasant city in many ways, but it is also quite hectic and with a very confusing layout, and people who enjoy it most are history buffs. (And not a lot of good wine there, alas.)

I think you might find Parma a fun surprise with a beautiful compact layout and delicious food (so-so wine), and unusual attractions. Read up on it and see what you think.

You might also enjoy 3 days in Santa Margherita Ligure instead of two, which would allow you to visit neighboring attractions in a relaxed way (cable car ride in Rapallo, boat ride to Portofino, maybe lunch in le Cinque Terre or Camogli).
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 06:06 AM
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PalenQ thanks for your comments. We are definitely moving by train during our trip as we agree with the points you made. Sandralist thanks for you insight. What sights do you recommend we prioritize for a day's visit to Genoa? Thanks in advance for your valuable guidance!
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 07:31 AM
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It would help to know how your list your priorities for enjoyable sightseeing. What comes first: beautiful architecture/art? food and markets? The medieval alleyways of Genova? How Genova relates to the sea? The city has been one of the world's most important ports for 10 centuries, the launch port for the Crusades, and then Cristoforo Colombo is also a home town boy. It is also has the largest unchanged medieval quarter in Europe.
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 07:38 AM
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Sandralist, I think all of what you mentioned is definitely of interest to us. If I had to choose, given possible time constraints, I would say Genoa's history, architecture and food and markets. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks again!
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 09:19 AM
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If you get into Genova before 1pm, which is easy to do if you are coming from Santa Margherita Ligure, you can store your luggage at Brignole station and then walk from there down the via San Vicenzo, and then toward piazza Colombo, to visit the Mercato Orientale, the covered food market of Genova. It's one of the least touristy in Italy, and not very big, so it is easy to take go-round or two (it is laid out in circular fashion) and gawk at the delicious looking stuff and even buy some fresh fruit, what have you. (No good bakeries inside the market, alas.)

You should exit the market on the via XX Settembre, a very busy-with-traffic, wide, straight boulevard, and turn left to head for the piazza Ferrari, with its huge circular fountain and Ducal Palace. You should find info online beforehand about what to look at and appreciate around this piazza, or if you are there before noon, the regional tourist office is located in the piazza, in the big office building for the Region of Liguria opposite Garibaldi's statue/opera house. One of the most important sights to note is the Porta Soprana (Upper Door), which is the historic inner gate of the northern walls of the city. The Porta Soprana was built on an ancient Roman entry way, so it is interesting to see.

If you start walking downhill from there toward the sea you will rather quickly come to the cathedral of San Lorenzo, a very striking structure inside and out. During WW2, a British bomb crashed through the roof but failed to detonate, sparing the cathedral. The bomb is on display inside the church.

The long wide street that leads from the Porta Soprana to the cathedral and port was actually a rather late creation in Genova's history because workers transporting goods from the dock to the upper city demanded a straight road, rather than the medieval alleys. So if you do some exploring to the left and the right of this road, you will find yourself in the very dense, dark alleys of medieval Genova, which are very unchanged from what they were 1,000 years ago. Like Venice, which is also open to the sea, the alleyways were created to be deliberately confusing to out-of-towners, or even people from the other side of own. You can still in some places the remains of watchtowers that local warlords/rich families built to spy down into the alleys to see who was walking around. There are palaces inside the caruggi (now mostly museums), historic buildings and churches (piazza San Matteo, San Gesu), some trendy new shops, lots of poor people and often visible broad-daylight drug dealing and prostitution.

You should head down to the port and take a look around. The old port has been turned into a modern "tourist" attraction like renovated American seaports, but it is still interesting to imagine the thousands of Europeans who came down to Genova to catch a boat to join the Crusades -- including thousands of children, and to imagine again how during the Age of Exploration, entrepreneurs and adventurers poured into Genova to buy and work on boats headed for the "new World". Just prior to WW2, thousands of northern European Jews escaping Nazism also poured into Genova to board ships headed for Argentina and in particular Shanghai, which would accept anyone even if they didn't have papers.

When Italy was "unified" in the 19th century, the northern Italians who won by conquering the kingdoms of the South simply dismantled all the modern infrastructure of Naples -- then Italy's most modern port -- and relocated to Genova, leaving Naples forever poor and Genova all the richer. It went fairly well until Mussolini took control of the country. Although he helped further modernize Genova's port (notably, he electrified the port's iconic lighthouse -- "La Laterna" -- which for centuries had burned hay soaked in olive oil), Italy's involvement in WW2 brought considerable destruction to the port and its major industries. Further damage was done when the city was hastily rebuilt without regard to history or aesthetics. In the 19th c., anyone taking "the Grand Tour of Europe" made an obligatory visit to Genova. Now very few tourists come, and the city's main focus is on being the main port of Italy and Switzerland.

It's easy to find lunch in any number of atmospheric places (Sa Pesta is a favorite). If you haven't tried farinata by this point during your stay in the Riviera, you should keep your eye out for a slice. On your way back to Brignole station, you should have plenty of time to walk down the Strada Nuova, the street built by the millionaires of Genova to show off their wealth. You might want to visit one of the palace museums.

If you begin at Brignole Station and go back there to get your luggage, you might need to switch trains at the Piazza Principe station to go onward to Milan. I think it might also be possible to store your luggage at Piazza Principe, so if you would rather start there, you could do the loop that I just described in reverse, ending with visiting the food market in the afternoon (re-opens at 4pm and stays open until 7.30pm). If you end with the food market, walk to Brignole station and take the next regional train to Piazza Principe. It's about a 5 minute ride.

You will need a good map and more information than I have given you to walk around comfortably and get some sightseeing under your belt in a day. You can find a lot about visiting Genova online, and the tourist office in Santa Margherita Ligure should also have some maps and brochures.
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 11:35 AM
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You might find it interesting to look at the Genova entries on this blog. It's a commercial tour company, and I know nothing about them and am not posting this to promote them, but they have good pictures and info

http://www.beautifuliguria.com/blog/...nations/genoa/
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 12:08 PM
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sandra is awesome - totally awesome! glad her hiatus is over.
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Old Nov 13th, 2015, 01:06 PM
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Sandralist, glad to see your posts again! Such excellent information is much appreciated.
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 05:19 AM
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Sandralist, sorry for the late response and thanks for the amazing information. It sounds like we'll definitely do Genova for the day if not overnight. Wondering if anyone could provide me with some insight on Stresa and its surrounding area. Thanks in advance!
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 05:56 AM
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You might want to put up a separate post to attract attention about Stresa.

In April, you might find Stresa is decidely cool, and you could rain, but you will also get early flowers and if the day is sunny and mild, there are boat trips to the islands (Isola Madre is my favorite) and a cable car ride up to hiking paths and views (but remember it is likely to be 5-8 degrees cooler up there (F degrees). On good-weather weekends, you can expect lots of fellow visitors, even in April. Isola Bella and its weird garden is the most crowded and touristy (although the palazzo on the estate is quite elegant and lovely, and rarely visited by tourists).

Otherwise, Stresa is a small town, without much to do other than lakeside strolls and eat. The immediate waterfront is a long stretch of part. One of the few directly lakeside restaurants in Stresa is L'Idrovolante, at the far end of town, and tourists seldom venture that far. All the restaurant and cafe action takes place a bit away from the waterfront, in Stresa's central piazza.

Stresa is dominated by a string of truly "grand" 19th c. hotels, built in the heyday of when wealthy Italians and Swiss, and a few Brits and Americans, would summer for a month at the lake with their entire huge families, eating in the white-tablecloth restaurants and dancing in the ballrooms. Nobody vacations that way anymore, so now the hotels fill their rooms catering to large events and large tour groups. In April that will be less than July, but that's a big part of the economic life of the town.

Without a car in April, you'll have limited access for day trips by bus to Lago d'Orta, and you might be too early for ferry rides around the huge lake to other towns. I think the town of Baveno (next to Stresa) has a huge Sunday market (or its another town very near Stresa). You can take the train a bit north into Switzerland and see more pretty scenery (remember to take your passport with you).
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 05:57 AM
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(By the way, that is not a compete picture of Stresa -- just what came to my mind, so others who have been can surely add more).
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 06:06 AM
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Sandralist, thanks so much again for the follow-up comment. Do you have any wisdom to share on activities in Santa Margherita Ligure? Please share if you do! Thanks again!!
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 06:59 AM
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jjrod, I topped my trip report (Menton/Lyon) in case you are interested. We took a day trip to Genoa.

I'd also suggest that you make Genoa a day trip. And maybe make Milano your last stop--you can more easily get to the airport.

DH and I loved Pisa and made it our base for trips to San Giminango, Siena and Florence.

Do you lose the first day to travel?
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 08:48 AM
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jjrod,

If you plan to go to Portofino from Santa Margherita Ligure, the most beautiful way to get there is by boat. Then, if you feel like it, you can walk back along pretty seaside trails -- but be sure before you go that you stop by the tourist office in Santa Margherita Ligure to get a map. The access to the pedestrian trail is easy to miss, and it's not fun to walk along the dirt shoulder of the narrow busy motor road.

If it's too hot to walk back to Santa Margherita Ligure, then something many people enjoy is taking another ferry to San Fruttuoso and visiting the abbey, and then another boat from there to pretty Camogli, where you can easily catch a train or bus back to Santa Margherita Ligure. There are a couple of places to have lunch in San Fruttoso right on the beach, and you can take a nice swim after -- or you can eat lunch in Camogli, which is filled restaurants. (La Rotunda is nice for food + view.)

It is easy to take a bus or train to Rapallo from Santa Margherita Ligure, and enjoy the morning market or take the cable car ride up the steep mountain to the sanctuary of the Madonna, where there are spectacular views. There is a restaurant up there, but you might want to take a picnic and then hike back down (if you don't want another cable car ride). Again, if you plan to walk, get a map from the tourist office. (By the way, Rapallo has the best gelato in a gelateria called Frigidarium that is just opposite the short castle near the boat docks.)

One of the most beautiful seaside walks in Italy is in Zoagli, the next town south of Rapallo. The train only stops there infrequently, but there are also buses. Check with the tourist office.

If it rains or if just in general you like a fascinating cocktail hour, head to Chiavari, the next town south of Zoagli, which has the most beautiful historic center and some of the most fun shopping along the Riviera. Any day but Sunday, you can head to Luchin for lunch or dinner and eat the best farinata on the Riviera.

Within Santa Margherita Ligure itself, the fish market is full of atmospheric charm (it is almost out of town, on the road towards Portofino). The two very old fashioned food shops, Pestarino and Seghezzo are fun to check out and great for a picnic meal. If you feel like getting a nice haircut, Vanni does a walk-in business most days of the week and the prices are moderate -- and I only mention this because about half the people who come from Milano or Torino for a weekend at the beach do go for a haircut or facial, and you might want to join the crowd. (Bring Vanni a picture of the style you want, or take your chances.)
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 11:28 AM
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Then, if you feel like it, you can walk back along pretty seaside trails -- but be sure before you go that you stop by the tourist office in Santa Margherita Ligure to get a map. The access to the pedestrian trail is easy to miss, and it's not fun to walk along the dirt shoulder of the narrow busy motor road.>

We did a gorgeous walk away from the sea - a kind of round-about route but was really nice - yes avoid the busy seaside road at all costs. It is easy to walk back from S Fruttuoso though a longish up and down hill stroll but if into hiking great.
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Old Dec 17th, 2015, 10:13 PM
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Hi, jjrod!

Allow me to add my two cents:

From what I've gathered, you intend to do your trip by train. I went to Italy this year in late May and also went around by train / bus / on foot. The different thing is, I used Pisa as a base and then did day trips to the neighboring towns (also managed to visit Florence). This way we cut down the packing/repacking/unpacking/shifting-around hassle and felt like we really got our week's worth (and made the trip less stressful).

I see you have a lot of stops and not sure how much luggage you'll be bringing or what kind of traveler you are. If it were me, I'd make less stops in-between Pisa and Milan (probably only 2 stops) and use them as bases to explore other towns.

I'm not saying your itinerary is not good because every traveler is different, I just want to point this out if you haven't considered this already.

I don't know if you'll be staying in Pisa, but Lucca is one of the highlights of my trip. That and the marble quarry in Carrara (the latter is better by car though).

I've posted reports of some of my trip here if you'd like to know more:

http://rushbijoux.blogspot.sg/2015/0...iday-with.html

http://rushbijoux.blogspot.sg/2015/1...holiday_2.html

http://rushbijoux.blogspot.sg/2015/1...holiday_5.html
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Old Dec 18th, 2015, 07:47 AM
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Wonderful shots and commentary, RushBijoux. DH and I loved Pisa and made it a base twice. We stayed at the Royal Victoria: www.royalvictoria.it/en/

It is on a busy road so ask for a quiet room.
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Old Dec 18th, 2015, 10:49 AM
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RushBijoux,

I am myself am not sure exactly what the jjrod's final itinerary is now (don't think it has been revealed) but it does seem from subsequent posts that the original itinerary was altered so now there will be only be 2 stops on the way to Milan: Santa Margherita Ligure and Stresa. Maybe jjrod won't have this problem, but I'm confused as to what you mean by "If it were me, I'd make less stops in-between Pisa and Milan (probably only 2 stops) and use them as bases to explore other towns." --?

Are you suggesting substituting Pisa for Florence as a base, and doing Florence only as a day trip? And suggesting visiting Bologna as a day trip from Milan? (It can't be done from Pisa.) -- ?
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