Itinerary and Train advice
Mar 17th, 2013, 12:25 PM
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Itinerary and Train advice
This site is a wealth of information. Thank you!
Planning a last minute 21 day solo trip in mid-April. My main focus will be art and architecture. I am not a fan of flying. My tentative itinerary is as follows:
London (3 nights) Eurostar to Paris
Paris (6 nights) Train (TGV or Thello to Milan or Florence)
*Milan (1 or 2 nights?) train to Florence
Florence (4 nights) train to Rome
Rome (5 nights) flight to London
London (1 night) flight to NYC (already booked)
Advice regarding itinerary?
Paris to Italy train: TGV or Thello? TGV arrives late in Milan. Should I stay in Milan or is the night train to Florence a wise choice for a female solo traveler? Does it make sense to stay in Milan for two nights? Is the Thello the better choice? I have read mixed reviews about Thello. If I went this route, I would get a single cabin. Any advice?
Planning to be in either Florence or Rome during Labor day. Which would be better?
Thank you!
Planning a last minute 21 day solo trip in mid-April. My main focus will be art and architecture. I am not a fan of flying. My tentative itinerary is as follows:
London (3 nights) Eurostar to Paris
Paris (6 nights) Train (TGV or Thello to Milan or Florence)
*Milan (1 or 2 nights?) train to Florence
Florence (4 nights) train to Rome
Rome (5 nights) flight to London
London (1 night) flight to NYC (already booked)
Advice regarding itinerary?
Paris to Italy train: TGV or Thello? TGV arrives late in Milan. Should I stay in Milan or is the night train to Florence a wise choice for a female solo traveler? Does it make sense to stay in Milan for two nights? Is the Thello the better choice? I have read mixed reviews about Thello. If I went this route, I would get a single cabin. Any advice?
Planning to be in either Florence or Rome during Labor day. Which would be better?
Thank you!
Mar 17th, 2013, 12:54 PM
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My first thought would be to do the whole thing in reverse: start by flying into London (sounds like that's booked?), then fly immediately to Rome and work your way back to London and do all your London days in one block instead of splitting them up. It seems your last day as you have it may be sort of wasted: fly back to London, back into the city, find a hotel...then fly away the next day. Of course, I don't know what airports you have planned to fly into/out of and you could have to change airports, and in that case I wouldn't bother.
I still might consider skipping London in the beginning and take the Eurostar immediately to Paris upon arrival in London and do your 4 nights in London at the end. Same idea: keeps all your London nights together. Then again, the idea of trying to do a connection the day you arrive either to Rome by plane or Paris by train may be too much for you - who knows?
Personally, I wasn't a big fan of Milan as a city, but if you have specific art/culture items you want to see there, I'm not sure you can see them all by staying a single night (after a long train from Paris?). I'm not the type of person who would enjoy a night train but some people swear by them.
In Florence, will you day trip to Siena? Highly recommend it, by bus.
I still might consider skipping London in the beginning and take the Eurostar immediately to Paris upon arrival in London and do your 4 nights in London at the end. Same idea: keeps all your London nights together. Then again, the idea of trying to do a connection the day you arrive either to Rome by plane or Paris by train may be too much for you - who knows?
Personally, I wasn't a big fan of Milan as a city, but if you have specific art/culture items you want to see there, I'm not sure you can see them all by staying a single night (after a long train from Paris?). I'm not the type of person who would enjoy a night train but some people swear by them.
In Florence, will you day trip to Siena? Highly recommend it, by bus.
Mar 18th, 2013, 08:49 PM
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Thanks Andrew!
Allowing for more time in London makes sense. I think I will fly to Rome first - I like the idea of getting the flight out of the way early on.
I am still on the fence about which train to take from Florence to Paris.
Also, is there room to fit in a quick trip to Barcelona? If so, is flying the only option for Italy to Barcelona?
Allowing for more time in London makes sense. I think I will fly to Rome first - I like the idea of getting the flight out of the way early on.
I am still on the fence about which train to take from Florence to Paris.
Also, is there room to fit in a quick trip to Barcelona? If so, is flying the only option for Italy to Barcelona?
Mar 18th, 2013, 09:19 PM
#4
I don't like the idea of flying immediately to Rome since your flights aren't connected. If your flight arrives late in London you could miss your flight to Rome and you won't be compensated.
It would have been best to book your flight into London and home from Rome, but seems you've already booked. I think I would stick with London to start, train to Paris, Easy Jet from Paris Orly to Rome (cheaper than the train and is only a two hour flight), train to Florence, train to Milan (why Milan?), fly to London.
For budget flights between cities in Europe:
www.whichbudget.com
www.skyscanner.com
>>>If so, is flying the only option for Italy to Barcelona?<<<
Should be an overnight ferry between Rome and Barcelona (Rome's port Civitavecchia is an hour from Rome) or from Livorno (Florence's port - also an hour from Florence).Maybe Grand Navi or Grimaldi. Will probably be cheaper to fly.
It would have been best to book your flight into London and home from Rome, but seems you've already booked. I think I would stick with London to start, train to Paris, Easy Jet from Paris Orly to Rome (cheaper than the train and is only a two hour flight), train to Florence, train to Milan (why Milan?), fly to London.
For budget flights between cities in Europe:
www.whichbudget.com
www.skyscanner.com
>>>If so, is flying the only option for Italy to Barcelona?<<<
Should be an overnight ferry between Rome and Barcelona (Rome's port Civitavecchia is an hour from Rome) or from Livorno (Florence's port - also an hour from Florence).Maybe Grand Navi or Grimaldi. Will probably be cheaper to fly.
Mar 19th, 2013, 12:56 AM
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Mar 19th, 2013, 04:57 AM
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You can take the overnight TRAIN from Milan to Barcelona>
I understand that the Italy to Barcelona night trains have been scrubbed or are being scrubbed - anyway for more info on overnight trains and European trains in general check out these IMO fantastic sources - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
Book early for discount fares on Paris to Italy night train - www.thello.com and in Italy www.trenitalia.com for discounted fares - which are however train-specific and which often must be booked weeks in advance to get - you may be too late - regular fare tickets are always available once there - so so many trains. There is an overnight ferry between Livorno, Italy and Barcelona.
I understand that the Italy to Barcelona night trains have been scrubbed or are being scrubbed - anyway for more info on overnight trains and European trains in general check out these IMO fantastic sources - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
Book early for discount fares on Paris to Italy night train - www.thello.com and in Italy www.trenitalia.com for discounted fares - which are however train-specific and which often must be booked weeks in advance to get - you may be too late - regular fare tickets are always available once there - so so many trains. There is an overnight ferry between Livorno, Italy and Barcelona.
Mar 20th, 2013, 08:00 AM
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Thank you for the responses!
Kybourbon- Good point about the flight to Rome. I am adding a day to alleviate issues with delay and to recover from jet lag. Also, the overnight ferry is a great idea.
PalenQ- Thank you for the budgeteuropetravel.com site! Good resource! (I am already a fan of seat 61 and Rick Steves! )
Dukey1- The overnight Milan to Barcelona train is a great idea. It would have been perfect!
Mamcalice- Venice is on my list for a future trip with a friend. It certainly would be easier than trekking from Florence to Barcelona. However, I really want to see Gaudi's works.
Based advice, I've modified my itinerary as follows:
London (1 night for jet lag recovery) fly to Rome
Rome (6 nights) train to Florence
Florence (3 nights) Ferry to Barcelona (Or, fly if I must)
Barcelona (2 nights) Train to France (Elipsos or SNCF)
Paris (5 nights)
London (4 nights)
I don't fly well so the extra day in London might be the best approach. This is also the reason I am thinking about the overnight ferry to Barcelona. Has anyone had experience with the Livorno- Barcelona ferry?
Any other advice is welcome!
Kybourbon- Good point about the flight to Rome. I am adding a day to alleviate issues with delay and to recover from jet lag. Also, the overnight ferry is a great idea.
PalenQ- Thank you for the budgeteuropetravel.com site! Good resource! (I am already a fan of seat 61 and Rick Steves! )
Dukey1- The overnight Milan to Barcelona train is a great idea. It would have been perfect!
Mamcalice- Venice is on my list for a future trip with a friend. It certainly would be easier than trekking from Florence to Barcelona. However, I really want to see Gaudi's works.
Based advice, I've modified my itinerary as follows:
London (1 night for jet lag recovery) fly to Rome
Rome (6 nights) train to Florence
Florence (3 nights) Ferry to Barcelona (Or, fly if I must)
Barcelona (2 nights) Train to France (Elipsos or SNCF)
Paris (5 nights)
London (4 nights)
I don't fly well so the extra day in London might be the best approach. This is also the reason I am thinking about the overnight ferry to Barcelona. Has anyone had experience with the Livorno- Barcelona ferry?
Any other advice is welcome!
Mar 20th, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Rome to Florence - you can save BIG euros by taking regional trains on this run even though they take maybe 3-4 hours instead of 1.5 hours or so by high-speed train - but regional trains are dirt cheap - a handful of euros - I went first class and had a whole compartment to myself the whole way - I enjoyed the many stops the train made at sleepy stations and using the old rail line you go right by Orvieto and actually thru cities - the new high-speed line is often in tunnels and avoids cities - the wind blocks can obscure the views to - the scenery is not all that spectacular but I find regional train's course to be more interesting
Best of all you just buy this ticket before boarding the train - a flat fare instead of trying to buy the ballyhooed discounted but limited in number tickets on high-speed trains which are train-specific and hard to change it seems and which to get you must book weeks in advance.
Regional trains do not even take seat reservations. And of course local trains are a great way to mix with the locals!
Best of all you just buy this ticket before boarding the train - a flat fare instead of trying to buy the ballyhooed discounted but limited in number tickets on high-speed trains which are train-specific and hard to change it seems and which to get you must book weeks in advance.
Regional trains do not even take seat reservations. And of course local trains are a great way to mix with the locals!
Mar 20th, 2013, 03:28 PM
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Since seeing Gaudi's work is the primary reason for the trek to Barcelona, I highly recommend you work things to allow at least two full days there as Sagrada Familia, Parc Guell and La Pedrera each can take 2-4 hours, depending on your interest, and they might be hard to fit all in one day. Given your interest in architecture, I would also say don't miss Palau de la Musica Catalana - simply beautiful.
Mar 20th, 2013, 06:24 PM
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This is also the reason I am thinking about the overnight ferry to Barcelona. Has anyone had experience with the Livorno- Barcelona ferry?>
No but have done many similar ferry trips of that duration in places like Greece and the North Sea. The only problem I've ever had was when seas were rough - always possible - I remember being on a France to Ireland ferry whose crossing was so so rough many people vomited! So it may depend on your 'ses worthiness"!
No but have done many similar ferry trips of that duration in places like Greece and the North Sea. The only problem I've ever had was when seas were rough - always possible - I remember being on a France to Ireland ferry whose crossing was so so rough many people vomited! So it may depend on your 'ses worthiness"!
Mar 20th, 2013, 09:48 PM
#14
>>>Has anyone had experience with the Livorno- Barcelona ferry?<<<
While the term ferry is being used it's really more of a cruise ship. I haven't done this particular ferry, but have done similar. These "ferries" have pools, casinos, etc.
http://www.grimaldi-lines.com/en/flotta-grimaldi.html#
While the term ferry is being used it's really more of a cruise ship. I haven't done this particular ferry, but have done similar. These "ferries" have pools, casinos, etc.
http://www.grimaldi-lines.com/en/flotta-grimaldi.html#
Mar 30th, 2013, 08:22 AM
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Thank you for the advice!
Sassafrass: Thank you for the advice regarding two full days in Barcelona. I am beginning to think that two nights in Barcelona is not enough and I need to steal a night from another location or plan a future Spain trip.
PalenQ and Kybourbon: Thanks for the train and ferry advice. I did not take into consideration sea sickness....
Right now, I am on the fence about squeezing Barcelona into my itinerary. I am thinking that it might make more sense to go from Florence to Paris. This means I will have two extra days.
Any advice would be appreciated!
Sassafrass: Thank you for the advice regarding two full days in Barcelona. I am beginning to think that two nights in Barcelona is not enough and I need to steal a night from another location or plan a future Spain trip.
PalenQ and Kybourbon: Thanks for the train and ferry advice. I did not take into consideration sea sickness....
Right now, I am on the fence about squeezing Barcelona into my itinerary. I am thinking that it might make more sense to go from Florence to Paris. This means I will have two extra days.
Any advice would be appreciated!
