msvoyage

Dear experts,
Female traveler, going solo, requesting your help urgently in forming an itinerary which includes the following countries/regions/cities on a 14 day journey (excluding travel time): Germany (Bavaria), Austria (Salzburg or Hallstatt or Vienna), plus Dubrovnik in Croatia, and Czech Republic. As inconvenient as flying to Dubrovnik sounds, I have friends who will be there from July 4 though 11, so I'd like to try meeting them for a 3 or 4 night stay before reaching the last stop which could be Prague. Thinking of flying home from Prague due to the more economical open-jaw fare.

Travel Dates: Leaving US on Sunday, June 28 for Munich, returning to US on July 13th or 14th from Prague (if that's a sensible departure point based on my prospective itinerary).

Potential division of my time: Maybe 5 days in Germany, travel to and through Austria on day 6 through 8, leave for Croatia on day 9 from Vienna. Stay in Croatia on days 9, 10, 11, fly or train to Prague on day 12, stay there day 13, returning to the US on morning of day 14th (or 1 extra day).

Some questions please:
1. Is this too much travel for a 2 week itinerary?
2. Do I need to drop Croatia and stick to Bavaria, Austria and Czech Republic or else, Budapest for this 14 or 15 day itinerary?

My approximate day-by-day itinerary:
1. Reach Munich around 9 a.m. on Monday, June 29th. Afternoon and evening Munich.
2. Tues June 30th-morning in Munich, not sure about afternoon.
3. Wed July 1 - day trip or overnight to some other small town in Bavaria
4. Thu July 2 - ? Bavaria
5. Fri July 3? Bavaria

6. Sat July 4 - train to some place in Austria, maybe Salzburg? Stay overnight?
7. Sun July 5 train to Vienna
8. Mon July 6 Flight from Vienna to Dubrovnik, reaching around 4 or 5 p.m. (I currently see a flight from Vienna to Dubrovnik and Dubrovnik to Prague for under $300).

Days 9, 10, 11 in Dubrovnik-Tues Jly 7 through Thursday Jly 9 (maybe a day trip within Croatia during this time)

9. Flight Fri, July 10 to Prague reaching in the evening. Night in Prague
10. Sat July 11 Prague?
11 Sun July 12 Prague?
11. Monday July 13 fly home from Prague

Your tips and ALL suggestions welcomed! I have to finalize my air ticket for starters before the open-jaw flights increase in price. I also have to book my multi-city Austria-Croatia-Austria ticket (which could change based on your suggestions). I haven't figured out my hotel options yet, maybe a combination of Air Bnb and hotels this time.

Thank you so much!

nytraveler

Well I would bag Croatia unless you really must meet these people there. I think doing 4 countries (not just cities) is too much for the length of your trip. You will spend a large amount of time just getting from one place to another and will be giving very short shrift to Prague (IMHO needs 3 days minimum - not worth it for one day).

If you must do croatia then I think you have to drop Prague.

Caveat: I have never been to Croatia - but have been to all the others multiple times and know how much there is to see in them - if your sights/main interests are the same as mine.

I especially like Prague since it has a unique continuous architectural history (not bombed into oblivion in WWII unlike most cities in central europe) a well as a unique cultural history. I refer it to Vienna, which I think is quite triste - although there are a large number of traditional sights to see. Prague just seems more likvely and very accessible. We did a couple of walking tours picked up at the Town Hall that were fascinating - and very inexpensive. Plus it's part of my heritage - so I relate to a lot.

For Austria - what do you really want to see? Vienna is obvious for a large capital city with a ton of history but IMHO Salzburg is more charming with a lot to see and do - as well as a change to spend some times in the mountains (Vienna is out on the plains).

PalenQ

for lots of info on trains check www.seat61.com - good info on discounted tickets available from - Austrian Railways - http://www.oebb.at/en/index.jsp - and also for general info on trains in central Europe - www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

msvoyage

nytraveler, thank you very much for your thoughts. It's not that I must go to Croatia, it's that it seemed like it was just a few hours away by flight and yet another place to see. However, it sounds exciting while sitting at my desk but once I'll actually be on the go, hopping on flights and trains and buses will get cumbersome, especially with my small rolling suitcase.

My interests mainly lie in seeing beautiful countryside, as well as cities, replete with architectural beauty, fountains, gardens, cafes, squares and plazas. I like to get to a place, settle in and just walk around for hours, grab a coffee, strike up a conversation or just explore. I like riding the public transportation versus driving, at least thus far. To wit, while in France, though I enjoyed the hustle and bustle of Paris any time I went, Alsace was far more enchanting with its small villages, greenery, the wine route and the genuinely helpful people.

In fact, last night, after repeatedly researching ways to fill but not saturate my itinerary and trying to see how to fit in Croatia, I'm taking a step back to investigate dropping Bavaria completely. I'm going to check whether starting with Austria (Salzburg and another place), then Prague will allow me to also see Budapest and still do Croatia. This could be option 2. Option one would be my original itinerary sans Croatia.

msvoyage

PalenQ, thank you for your response and
for the information on the trains, I've been relying heavily on seat61, ricksteves and the direct sites for the regional railways, I planned my Euro trip last year solely on advice from a couple of these forums and by visiting the train sites

Fussgaenger

"My interests mainly lie in seeing beautiful countryside, as well as cities... Alsace was far more enchanting with its small villages, greenery, the wine route... I'm taking a step back to investigate dropping Bavaria completely."

So if you want to combine the sort of experience you had in Alsace with time in bigger cities like Munich and Prague, I'd say dropping southern Germany is precisely the WRONG thing to do. Bavaria has some awesome scenery and some great small villages you probably don't know about. All these places are (roughly) between Munich and Prague...

Iphofen (wine and artists' village) - see photos:
http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org...&threadID=2985
Iphofen brochure: http://www.iphofen.de/download/ortsp...sch_100510.pdf

Bamberg (UNESCO World Heritage preserved old town) -
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/624
Bamberg info: http://en.bamberg.info/

Sommerhausem, Ochsenfurt and Marktbreit, all on the Main River near Würzburg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUgpoQIFHI

The above towns are in the subregion of Franconia, famous not only for its breweries but for its wines:

http://www.frankentourismus.com/cata...009/index.html

Franconia info: http://www.frankentourismus.com/?setLanguage=true

Regensburg, also a UNESCO WH site:
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1155

Pappenheim: http://www.treuchtlingen.de/fileadmi...us-ch.link.jpg
Pappenheim info: http://www.pappenheim.de/Historical-...7b1e38d.0.html

AND... then there's alpine Bavaria...

Berchtesgaden and Königssee: http://images.fotocommunity.de/bilde...366c66aa75.jpg

Prien, Chiemsee Lake, and Herrenchiemsee Palace:
http://www.breitbrunn.com/Fotos/Breitbrunn-Luftbild.jpg
http://www.herrenchiemsee.de/englisch/tourist/index.htm

Lindau, island town in Lake Constance at Swiss border:
http://www.inselwache.de/assets/images/Bild_Lindau.jpg

"Well I would bag Croatia..."

I agree.

On top of Munich and Prague, maybe you see Salzburg as well... but it's easy to see how quickly 2 weeks might go in Bavaria alone. Croatia, Budapest?? Remember that flying anywhere tends to usurp the better part of a day - 2 days if you have to fly back. If you just did Bavaria, Prague CZ, and Salzburg AT, you'd have no time bothering with airports and easy access to all via the German train system. Note that the Bavaria Ticket daypass (€23/day) will get you nearly EVERYWHERE listed above (except Prague - but there are cheap options there as well.)

http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm

PalenQ

2. Tues June 30th-morning in Munich, not sure about afternoon>

How about Dachau - unless you're one of the few that just does not want or wish to visit such a maudlin sobering place the Memorial is just a short S-Bahn/bus ride away from anyplace in Munich. May not be a UNESCo World Heritage Site (or it may be) but to me it is the most whatever thing I've done in the Munich area.

msvoyage

Fussgaenger, the photographs of those regions, well, they're mouth-watering and reminiscent of Alsace. I already know alpine Bavaria and some parts of Austria could very well be used to illustrate fairytale story books. I had looked at photos of many places all across Germany including Bamberg, Regionsberg and Lindau while researching my trip to Switzerland last year, just couldn't fit in anything except Freiburg due to time constraints.

I'm going to focus on Munich and some of the places you've listed, combined with Prague. If feasible, Salzburg. Thank you all for the ideas and tips. Before forming the German-Austrian itinerary, I was also looking at Scandinavia, specifically Stockholm, Bergen and Copenhagen and see that there's a wealth of information on those places, some of it from those who've responded to my questions. I'm so excited about that being a future trip though it'll apparently cost 30% more than Bavaria! I'll likely be back soon with more questions within hours. Have a good weekend.

PalenQ

Salzburg can always be an easy day trip from Munich. If you use the slower regional trains the Bavarian Lander Ticket would make it cheap - about 30 euros or so for up to several folks to travel there and back - not p.p. but per group.

msvoyage

Hello again,
I'm back with more questions, please and an updated list of places I plan to visit:
1. Arriving in Munich, expecting to spending 4-5 days in Bavaria (will try going to at least 3 of the places mentioned by Fussgaenger). I need to fine-tune the itinerary to know which days will involve day trips and what would be better as an overnight within Bavaria, and as always I am very open to suggestions which could save me time and maybe a bit of money.

2. Next stop Budapest.
3. Final destination Prague. Stands to reason that almost every guided tour and independent itinerary follows Prague-Vienna-Budapest in specifically that order, while my routing had to be changed last minute so that I'll be going from somewhere in Bavaria, if not from Munich itself, to Budapest rather than Bavaria to Prague then on to Budapest. What would be a good way to break this journey? A family member is currently stationed in Annaberg Buchholz, so I made this last minute routing shift to be able to fit in a visit to them before returning to the US from Prague.

My questions to you today:
1. Is my routing foolish considering I swapped my final destination point from Budapest to Prague?
2. Is there any benefit to buying a rail pass connecting the 3 countries I plan to visit? I see much benefit with the Bavarian day pass, and I've read that Prague-Vienna and Vienna to BP has reasonably priced fares.

3. I was stumped when purchasing my air ticket, the pricing for Frankfurt-return trip from the US was $350 to $470 less than flying into Munich round-trip or opting for an open-jaw combination with Munich plus Prague (which I ended up choosing), or Munich plus Budapest (my initial plan). Whatever research I'd done centered on Bavaria/Southern Germany since I planned on including the Northern parts on a future trip, while the Southern region allowed me better access to Czech, AT, or Budapest. Would it have been okay to have Frankfurt as my base for a few days or would any day trip including some in Bavaria have bled my time and budget excessively?

Thanks all for reading and for the help.

PalenQ

Is there any benefit to buying a rail pass connecting the 3 countries I plan to visit? I see much benefit with the Bavarian day pass, and I've read that Prague-Vienna and Vienna to BP has reasonably priced fares.>

No - you are only taking two non-Bavarian trains - nab discounted tickets at www.bahn.de/en or the Austrian Railways site. Any railpass would cost hundreds of bucks more!

msvoyage

Thanks PalenQ for responding about the pass. Now I only need to figure out whether my intended somewhat weird itinerary will be tenuous or manageable (Munich/Bavaria-Budapest-Annaberg-Buchholz-Prague) or Bavaria-Annaberg B and Prague, then BP). My big concern is that I still have a short while to make changes to my air ticket. Not after tonight though.

Regards!

PalenQ

well what did you do with your air ticket? curious.

msvoyage

PalenQ, I stuck with the US-Munich-Prague return. Thanks for the help.

msvoyage

Dear voyage helpers, a year later, I'm finally back to report on my trip and to thank you all for the tips. Due to work and other constraints, my itinerary changed faces yet again and I had to remove Bavaria (sadly) from my route. Also had to delay my trip by a few weeks and my final itinerary which switched from June to August was: US to Budapest-Vienna-Prague-Ore Mountains in Germany-US. I think 16 days total, returned on the 17th. While in BP, included a wine region trip, a couple of hours away from the city, which was a lot of fun, enjoyed the cafes and walking around.

In Czech R, included Cesky Krumlov and Karlsbad/Karlovy Vary along with Prague. Liked the laid back vibe of Karlovy Vary. As cute as Cesky Krumlov was, even half a day was more than plenty, perhaps the 94 degree day is what made me want to leave! Last stop Annaberg B in Germany before heading home via NYC.

I'd planned on visiting Dresden or other parts of Saxony, but the migrant crisis was in full furor during the August and early September, there were some incidents which made my German friends concerned enough to tell me to stay put and I listened. Another notable fact: I apparently enjoyed the heatwave of all heatwaves while in BP, Vienna and Prague...a local guide in Prague said they hadn't experienced that kind of 92 to 96 degree heat in decades, maybe a couple of centuries. Forget about AC, their houses weren't even equipped with fans, so it was challenging and kind of exhausting at times. It at least paved the way for my official conversion to drinking beer, prior to that, I'd never enjoyed a full beer, I'd been a wine drinker. With Germany as the last stop and a 30 to 38 drop in temperature, the mountains were a relief.

I had a good trip, mainly because of all the help and tips from everyone here! I think 4- 5 days are good in BP, 2 each were fine for a starter taste of Vienna, without actually allowing enough time to sit and savor more of the sights or places, same with Prague. One day each for the other places in Czech was fine, a week was more than sufficient in the peaceful, green, but very sedate Ore mtns and Annaberg. Planning my next trip now, no final destinations yet!