Italy train travel question
May 1st, 2015, 02:39 PM
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Italy train travel question
I’m planning my first trip to Italy with a friend of mine in July, and I was wondering if there was a multi-city train pass/service that might be available for purchase online (our itinerary is Rome-Florence-Venice, one week per city). Sorry if this question’s been asked for the umpteenth time, but we could use some much needed advice ASAP. Thanks!
May 1st, 2015, 02:58 PM
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No pass that would be cost-effective for you - cheapest fares are bought at www.trenitlai.com or Italo Treno or something like that that competes with Trenitalia, the former FS or State-Run Railways that previously had a monopoly on those main lines - but as they are sold in limited numbers on each train popular days and times can sell out WAY in advance of the train - book up to 2 or 3 months in advance to be sure - but you save a bundle over full fare - but non-changeable and largely non-refundable I believe so be sure of your dates and times. Also check www.raileurope.com in the U.S. as they have started to at times but not always match the cheaper fares on those two train sites.
You can always buy full fare tickets once in say Venice IME but at a much much higher price - the worst would be if 2nd class were all full 1st class IME would rarely if ever be so and IME first-class is definitely worth it for folks on the trip of a lifetime and carrying perhaps too much luggage. Discounted tickets come in first class too.
For lots of goodies on Italian trains check these sites: www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
stations you want to use will be: Veneice Santa Lucia (Venezia S L); Florence Santa Maria Novella (firenze S M N) and either Rome Tiburtina or Rome's main station Termini - Tiburtina comes first and can have some cheaper trains serving it and it is just as quick to get to anywhere in Rome about by metro from there and it is a much more calm station thru which to navigate IME than what seems to be a chaotic Termini to many first-timer encounterers!
You can always buy full fare tickets once in say Venice IME but at a much much higher price - the worst would be if 2nd class were all full 1st class IME would rarely if ever be so and IME first-class is definitely worth it for folks on the trip of a lifetime and carrying perhaps too much luggage. Discounted tickets come in first class too.
For lots of goodies on Italian trains check these sites: www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
stations you want to use will be: Veneice Santa Lucia (Venezia S L); Florence Santa Maria Novella (firenze S M N) and either Rome Tiburtina or Rome's main station Termini - Tiburtina comes first and can have some cheaper trains serving it and it is just as quick to get to anywhere in Rome about by metro from there and it is a much more calm station thru which to navigate IME than what seems to be a chaotic Termini to many first-timer encounterers!
May 1st, 2015, 05:37 PM
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Within each of those cities there are local transport passes good for just within those cities. Of course, the value of such a pass will depend on where you are staying and how much you like to walk.
May 1st, 2015, 06:41 PM
#4
You could buy a train pass online that you could use to travel between those cities, but train passes for Italy are rarely cost effective. You need to be traveling more and longer distances to get the value for Italy. Train passes in Italy also don't include your seats which are mandatory (10€ each on the fast trains).
Train passes typically don't include local city transport. Some cities will have their own. Somewhere like Florence you probably can walk everywhere (historic center is very compact - 25-30 minute walk side-to-side).
If you buy point-to-point tickets online from Trenitalia (the main train operator in Italy) or Italo (operates between some of the major cities), you can snag discounts by booking ahead. The prices on their websites will include your seats for the faster trains.
Advance purchase between some of your cities listed have been discounted to as little 17€ (these cheap fares can sell out). Full fare walk-up price is around 45€ between the cities you listed.
PQ gave the website for Trenitalia above. Here's the website for Italo.
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/timetabl.../overview.aspx
Train passes typically don't include local city transport. Some cities will have their own. Somewhere like Florence you probably can walk everywhere (historic center is very compact - 25-30 minute walk side-to-side).
If you buy point-to-point tickets online from Trenitalia (the main train operator in Italy) or Italo (operates between some of the major cities), you can snag discounts by booking ahead. The prices on their websites will include your seats for the faster trains.
Advance purchase between some of your cities listed have been discounted to as little 17€ (these cheap fares can sell out). Full fare walk-up price is around 45€ between the cities you listed.
PQ gave the website for Trenitalia above. Here's the website for Italo.
http://www.italotreno.it/EN/timetabl.../overview.aspx
May 2nd, 2015, 02:50 AM
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There's a typo in Palenq's URL for Trenitalia. Here is the correct URL, for the English language version:
https://www.lefrecce.it/B2CWeb/searc...D=hl77Rpf6AH3n
You have to use the Italian city names: Venezia, Firenze, and Roma. When you begin to type a name, you'll see a list of stations which will include the stations mentioned by Palenq.
I don't agree that Tiburtina is just as convenient as Termini station. I would always prefer to arrive at Termini, where you can usually get a bus to your destination instead of dealing with the metro with your luggage. If you get a taxi, it will cost a good deal more from Termini if you're staying in central Rome.
I also am no fan of 1st class travel, as Palenq is. Sure, it may be the trip of a lifetime, but save the money for a good dinner! There are actully four different classes on some trains rather than just 1st and 2nd. The so-called Premium class has absolutely no advantage over "standard" class, just an extra cost. The Business class on these trains will give you more room at your seat, but they cost about 50% more. The standard class seats are plenty roomy, and the trips are not terribly long.
Sometimes the higher priced seats are so greatly discounted that you can get one for the same price as the lower class seats. In that case, and in that case only, I'd get ticket other than 2nd/standard class. You have to ask yourself why they have more discounts on the higher classes than for 2nd/standard. Is it because the vast majority of Italians is convinced that it's a waste of money?
https://www.lefrecce.it/B2CWeb/searc...D=hl77Rpf6AH3n
You have to use the Italian city names: Venezia, Firenze, and Roma. When you begin to type a name, you'll see a list of stations which will include the stations mentioned by Palenq.
I don't agree that Tiburtina is just as convenient as Termini station. I would always prefer to arrive at Termini, where you can usually get a bus to your destination instead of dealing with the metro with your luggage. If you get a taxi, it will cost a good deal more from Termini if you're staying in central Rome.
I also am no fan of 1st class travel, as Palenq is. Sure, it may be the trip of a lifetime, but save the money for a good dinner! There are actully four different classes on some trains rather than just 1st and 2nd. The so-called Premium class has absolutely no advantage over "standard" class, just an extra cost. The Business class on these trains will give you more room at your seat, but they cost about 50% more. The standard class seats are plenty roomy, and the trips are not terribly long.
Sometimes the higher priced seats are so greatly discounted that you can get one for the same price as the lower class seats. In that case, and in that case only, I'd get ticket other than 2nd/standard class. You have to ask yourself why they have more discounts on the higher classes than for 2nd/standard. Is it because the vast majority of Italians is convinced that it's a waste of money?
May 2nd, 2015, 06:16 AM
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The so-called Premium class has absolutely no advantage over "standard" class, just an extra cost.>
No I strongly disagree that there is absolutely no advantage - seats are bigger and likely to have empty seats - and discounted tickets sometimes cost only a few more euro in first class over what is available in 2nd class and the free cofee and snack are worth that - so I disagree that there is absolutely no difference between first and second class - there is and that is why each train has hudreds of first-class seats - either that or Italians are rather stupid to throw their money away.
Locals like bvienci travel sans heavy luggage - it is hard for them to put themselves into the shoes of a tourist with luggage and that is one major difference IME - less people in same-sized train car - 1st class has about 25% less seats in same sized train car than does 2nd clas = more room for leisurely luggage storage.
No I strongly disagree that there is absolutely no advantage - seats are bigger and likely to have empty seats - and discounted tickets sometimes cost only a few more euro in first class over what is available in 2nd class and the free cofee and snack are worth that - so I disagree that there is absolutely no difference between first and second class - there is and that is why each train has hudreds of first-class seats - either that or Italians are rather stupid to throw their money away.
Locals like bvienci travel sans heavy luggage - it is hard for them to put themselves into the shoes of a tourist with luggage and that is one major difference IME - less people in same-sized train car - 1st class has about 25% less seats in same sized train car than does 2nd clas = more room for leisurely luggage storage.
May 2nd, 2015, 08:53 AM
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The so-called Premium class has absolutely no advantage over "standard" class, just an extra cost>
So if tickets were one euro more to go the first-class lowest range IYO it would not be worth it?
I can't believe you really think that - have you EVER ridden in first class - to say things like that I doubt it. And if you did you can say there is ABSOLUTELY no difference?
I beg to differ anyway and again folks with a lot of luggage are different than someone just taking trains for a day.
Cheers!
So if tickets were one euro more to go the first-class lowest range IYO it would not be worth it?
I can't believe you really think that - have you EVER ridden in first class - to say things like that I doubt it. And if you did you can say there is ABSOLUTELY no difference?
I beg to differ anyway and again folks with a lot of luggage are different than someone just taking trains for a day.
Cheers!
May 2nd, 2015, 10:00 AM
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Thanks for the replies! I didn't think there'd be so many rail websites based in Europe, but I'll try to research them individually for one that's cost effective, from your suggestions. Appreciate the feedback!
May 2nd, 2015, 10:45 AM
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Palenq, the seats in Premium class are exactly the same size, have the same degrees of reclination, and occupy the same space as seats in standard class. The only difference is that Premium has leather upholstery, which I absolutely don't want. If you don't believe me, look at the measurements on page 21 of this site.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms-file/a...i_tcom2014.pdf
If I could get a Business seat, or a Business carozza silenziosa for a few euros more than a standard seat, I'd spring. But I wouldn't spend one penny more for a Premium seat.
I have chosen first class three or four times. One was when I couldn't get two seats together for a friend and me. Once was on the unique occasion when seats in second class were sold out. The other times were when the price was almost exactly the same. I remember one time, when we rode second class out and first class back, asking my husband if he could detect any difference. He couldn't.
I've never ridden in Business class, though, mainly because no Frecciarossa trains come anywhere near where I live.
I never travel encumbered with excessive luggaage, and I've never had a problem finding a place to put it. If someone has too much luggage, finding a place to put it om the train is the least of their worries.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms-file/a...i_tcom2014.pdf
If I could get a Business seat, or a Business carozza silenziosa for a few euros more than a standard seat, I'd spring. But I wouldn't spend one penny more for a Premium seat.
I have chosen first class three or four times. One was when I couldn't get two seats together for a friend and me. Once was on the unique occasion when seats in second class were sold out. The other times were when the price was almost exactly the same. I remember one time, when we rode second class out and first class back, asking my husband if he could detect any difference. He couldn't.
I've never ridden in Business class, though, mainly because no Frecciarossa trains come anywhere near where I live.
I never travel encumbered with excessive luggaage, and I've never had a problem finding a place to put it. If someone has too much luggage, finding a place to put it om the train is the least of their worries.
May 2nd, 2015, 10:57 AM
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I don't just take the train for day trips; in fact, almost every train trip I take involves luggage. For day trips, we mostly drive. Next month, for example, we're taking a trip to Lake Como and Switzerland, almost entirely by train. And we're riding 2nd class (or standard class on the Frecciarossa between Bologna and Milan).
On the way back home, I checked the prices on the Frecciarossa. Supereconomy in standard class was €19. The cheapest fare in Business class was €60. For my husband and me that's a difference of €82. Does that sound like a reasonable additional expense for a one-hour trip?
On the way back home, I checked the prices on the Frecciarossa. Supereconomy in standard class was €19. The cheapest fare in Business class was €60. For my husband and me that's a difference of €82. Does that sound like a reasonable additional expense for a one-hour trip?
May 2nd, 2015, 11:30 AM
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Well I guess the Premium Class - the lowest first class - the it does not have an aisle of one seat in a row and across that aisle two seats - three seats in a whole row vs 4 in first class? That picture just show one row of 2- seats - would there be one or two across the aisle?
I've never been in a first-class carriage that did not have a row of one seat and then two seats vs always 2 by 2 in second class and to me I love those isolsted seats that have an aisle and a window seat and no one to ever have to bother asking 'excuse me, can I get out', etc.
I always have a Eurailpass when using long-distance Italian trains and those first-class compartments the pass puts me in have never ever not had a row of one seat in it.
Maybe this is a newer train than I have ridden - but just answer me about 2 x 2 seats as that to me is a major major difference that puts let number of overall seats in each same-sized rail car - those isolated seats which can be had facing each other with a table in between them (like in bvienci's photo link) - sweet for couples who want privacy or solos like moi who also like privacy and not having to ask some to get up so I can get out or have to get up for someone to get out.
and if so is every Italian train now 2 x 2 in first class?
Maybe Premium Class is a newer term used to indicate not first class but 2nd class +?
Anyway the 1 x 2 seating is crucial to my saying why there is a significant difference between classes - especially for those with luggage.
I've never been in a first-class carriage that did not have a row of one seat and then two seats vs always 2 by 2 in second class and to me I love those isolsted seats that have an aisle and a window seat and no one to ever have to bother asking 'excuse me, can I get out', etc.
I always have a Eurailpass when using long-distance Italian trains and those first-class compartments the pass puts me in have never ever not had a row of one seat in it.
Maybe this is a newer train than I have ridden - but just answer me about 2 x 2 seats as that to me is a major major difference that puts let number of overall seats in each same-sized rail car - those isolated seats which can be had facing each other with a table in between them (like in bvienci's photo link) - sweet for couples who want privacy or solos like moi who also like privacy and not having to ask some to get up so I can get out or have to get up for someone to get out.
and if so is every Italian train now 2 x 2 in first class?
Maybe Premium Class is a newer term used to indicate not first class but 2nd class +?
Anyway the 1 x 2 seating is crucial to my saying why there is a significant difference between classes - especially for those with luggage.
May 2nd, 2015, 11:40 AM
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https://www.google.com/search?q=Ital...=1600&bih=1075
Pictures in general of Italian Trains 1st Class - note the sweet solo window and aisle seats - man do I like those - priceless to me - now if I were an Italian taking many trains for business and were paying my own ticket I'd no doubt go 2nd class and book my ticket weeks in advance in stone. Actually if I did not have a 1st-class Eurailpass already I would with my budget never be able to pay for a wlak up fully flexible ticket in 1st class but if I were paying typically $200 or more a night for a hotel room; $100 a day for two for lower-end rstaurants and cafes, etc I would also go first class - it is a mystery to me of all the things on Fodor's discusses the mantra is that the cheapest ticket and seat is always the best but on hotels no one recommends anything cheap here and few are wanting it - ditto for restaurants - folks always ask for 'the best pasta in Italy or the best gelato' - but when it comes to train travel penny-pinching occurs - folks just do not realize the IME of riding lots of Italian trains and train-watching hundreds more (Two years ago I sat nightly in Florence on the platform of Track 24 or whatever the highest numbered track that is far far out from the main part of the station - some local train only left from there to not far south of Florence - anyway sat there are watched trains from all the many Florence SMN station slowly trundle by and trundle in - nearaly always full or fairly full in 2nd class and in first class - cars marked with a 1 in a circle on their outside - wer rearely full and often half-full - a much more leisurely ride guaranteed.
Recently some Fodorite wrote they took a 2nd class train from Venice to Florence and they said never again and gave the reasons - on the trip of a lifetime like in hotels or restaurants splurge a bit - if you were doing it all the time economize on price and comfort.
So if 1 class or some of it is now 2 x 2 I will have to adjust my admant feeling that for the average traveler 1st class will be much more relaxed and also that 2nd class is not like a cattle car and yes is comfotable enough as seats go but it is the extra space you get in first class, as I know it anyway and have not been there since two years ago so maybe things have changed all of a sudden.
2 x 2 or 1 x 2 ids the question for bvienci???????
Pictures in general of Italian Trains 1st Class - note the sweet solo window and aisle seats - man do I like those - priceless to me - now if I were an Italian taking many trains for business and were paying my own ticket I'd no doubt go 2nd class and book my ticket weeks in advance in stone. Actually if I did not have a 1st-class Eurailpass already I would with my budget never be able to pay for a wlak up fully flexible ticket in 1st class but if I were paying typically $200 or more a night for a hotel room; $100 a day for two for lower-end rstaurants and cafes, etc I would also go first class - it is a mystery to me of all the things on Fodor's discusses the mantra is that the cheapest ticket and seat is always the best but on hotels no one recommends anything cheap here and few are wanting it - ditto for restaurants - folks always ask for 'the best pasta in Italy or the best gelato' - but when it comes to train travel penny-pinching occurs - folks just do not realize the IME of riding lots of Italian trains and train-watching hundreds more (Two years ago I sat nightly in Florence on the platform of Track 24 or whatever the highest numbered track that is far far out from the main part of the station - some local train only left from there to not far south of Florence - anyway sat there are watched trains from all the many Florence SMN station slowly trundle by and trundle in - nearaly always full or fairly full in 2nd class and in first class - cars marked with a 1 in a circle on their outside - wer rearely full and often half-full - a much more leisurely ride guaranteed.
Recently some Fodorite wrote they took a 2nd class train from Venice to Florence and they said never again and gave the reasons - on the trip of a lifetime like in hotels or restaurants splurge a bit - if you were doing it all the time economize on price and comfort.
So if 1 class or some of it is now 2 x 2 I will have to adjust my admant feeling that for the average traveler 1st class will be much more relaxed and also that 2nd class is not like a cattle car and yes is comfotable enough as seats go but it is the extra space you get in first class, as I know it anyway and have not been there since two years ago so maybe things have changed all of a sudden.
2 x 2 or 1 x 2 ids the question for bvienci???????
May 2nd, 2015, 12:18 PM
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Images of "Premium Class" on Italian trains shows a 1 x 2 seating arrangement:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ital...=1600&bih=1075
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ital...=1600&bih=1075
May 2nd, 2015, 03:14 PM
#14
>>>No I strongly disagree that there is absolutely no advantage - seats are bigger and likely to have empty seats <<<
That's not accurate. Premium doesn't have bigger seats or more recline. Both premium and standard have 55.5 cm seats. Only difference between standard and premium is a free drink and a newspaper.
>>>Well I guess the Premium Class - the lowest first class - the it does not have an aisle of one seat in a row and across that aisle two seats - three seats in a whole row vs 4 in first class? That picture just show one row of 2- seats - would there be one or two across the aisle?<<<<
Premium is not 1st class on these trains. It's 4 seats across just like standard 2nd class.
>>>>it is a mystery to me of all the things on Fodor's discusses the mantra is that the cheapest ticket and seat is always the best but on hotels no one recommends anything cheap here and few are wanting it<<<
It's a mystery to me that someone wants to only ride 1st class on trains when that someone posts they stay in budget hotels/hostels and travels in the dead of winter for better prices. I spend far more time in my hotel room than on a 90 minute train ride.
I didn't check PQ's Trenitalia link to make sure it worked. Here, in the US, this is the link for Trenitalia's home page in English.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD
I don't find Tiburtina as convenient as Termini as it will likely take longer to reach your destination in Rome (Termini is closer to the historic center). Tiburtina is a major bus hub though (as is Termini) so you can probably catch a bus you want there too. Subway is also an option at both stations, but Rome's subway is very limited (only a couple of lines).
As bvlenci pointed out, these are short trips (90 minutes Rome/Florence and about 2 hours (Florence/Venice) and 2nd class on the fast trains is fine. Here's a pic of 2nd class.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg
In Venice, you might want to look at the vaporetto passes to see if you would actually use it. This link has some info about the vaporetto and the Venice Card.
http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/venic...avel-card.html
The 3 day Roma Pass for 36€ includes transport in Rome (and free admission to your first two sites from their list). You would need to use public transport several times per day to get the value and pick the more expensive sites to enter first.
http://www.romapass.it/p.aspx?l=en&tid=2
While Florence has a pass also, I don't see anyway to get the value (it's 72€). Museums in Florence are only 6.50€ or so and most tourists don't use public transport there.
That's not accurate. Premium doesn't have bigger seats or more recline. Both premium and standard have 55.5 cm seats. Only difference between standard and premium is a free drink and a newspaper.
>>>Well I guess the Premium Class - the lowest first class - the it does not have an aisle of one seat in a row and across that aisle two seats - three seats in a whole row vs 4 in first class? That picture just show one row of 2- seats - would there be one or two across the aisle?<<<<
Premium is not 1st class on these trains. It's 4 seats across just like standard 2nd class.
>>>>it is a mystery to me of all the things on Fodor's discusses the mantra is that the cheapest ticket and seat is always the best but on hotels no one recommends anything cheap here and few are wanting it<<<
It's a mystery to me that someone wants to only ride 1st class on trains when that someone posts they stay in budget hotels/hostels and travels in the dead of winter for better prices. I spend far more time in my hotel room than on a 90 minute train ride.
I didn't check PQ's Trenitalia link to make sure it worked. Here, in the US, this is the link for Trenitalia's home page in English.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD
I don't find Tiburtina as convenient as Termini as it will likely take longer to reach your destination in Rome (Termini is closer to the historic center). Tiburtina is a major bus hub though (as is Termini) so you can probably catch a bus you want there too. Subway is also an option at both stations, but Rome's subway is very limited (only a couple of lines).
As bvlenci pointed out, these are short trips (90 minutes Rome/Florence and about 2 hours (Florence/Venice) and 2nd class on the fast trains is fine. Here's a pic of 2nd class.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg
In Venice, you might want to look at the vaporetto passes to see if you would actually use it. This link has some info about the vaporetto and the Venice Card.
http://www.eurocheapo.com/blog/venic...avel-card.html
The 3 day Roma Pass for 36€ includes transport in Rome (and free admission to your first two sites from their list). You would need to use public transport several times per day to get the value and pick the more expensive sites to enter first.
http://www.romapass.it/p.aspx?l=en&tid=2
While Florence has a pass also, I don't see anyway to get the value (it's 72€). Museums in Florence are only 6.50€ or so and most tourists don't use public transport there.
May 3rd, 2015, 03:19 AM
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I suspect you haven't been in Italy in a while, Palenq, and yet you always pose as an expert. The Frecciarossa trains don't have 1st and 2nd classes. Instead they have Standard, Premium, Business and Business Salottino. Premium I suppose could be called 2nd+, except that it's not like Premium on an airline, because at least on an airline you get extra leg room. Business has more room and some sort of leg support, but not a lot. Salottino is intended for business meetings, with seats arranged to be able to follow a presentation. There is also a silent business car, which is the same as business in cost and dimensions.
As I said, I rarely ride a Frecciarossa train, because there are no routes with Frecciarossa (or even Frecciargento) anywhere near where I live. However, next month I'll be on a Frecciarossa train between Bologna and Milan, and I'll try to remember to have a look. KYBourbon says they're 2x2 and I have no reason to doubt it, because the seat measurements are identical in width, pitch, and leg room. You don't seem to have checked those numbers on the page for which I gave a link. The numbers are more definitive than a photo.
If there are fewer seats in the Premium class, then the difference would be all in the width of the aisle, because the seats are identical. That might be useful for someone hauling a mega-suitcase, but they'd still have to get it on the train, which wouldn't be easy.
I really don't mind having a seat companion. As I said, the trips that tourists take on Italian trains are usually quite short on a train that goes at 300 km per hour, so the number of times someone has to go past you is very limited. We're not talking about a transatlantic flight. By the way, which class do you fly, Palenq? Does your theory of splurging for a special vacation extend to your flight? I would be tempted to splurge for an overseas flight, but not for a 90-minute ride from Rome to Florence.
In the end, on the Frecciarossa, the choice is really between standard class and business class. As I said, on the train I was reserving yesterday, business class cost more than three times as much as standard class, and I wouldn't dream for a minute of paying €82 extra for a slightly larger seat and a pack of peanuts for a 1-hour trip.
We rode 1st class from York to Glasgow this summer, and that was definitely worth the extra expenditure. The snack was so abundant that we couldn't eat it, and wrapped half of it to take to our hotel, where it served us for supper. You won't find anything like that on 1st class in Italy.
Why do you think 1st class is usually half empty? Could it be that Italians find it a total waste of money?
As I said, I rarely ride a Frecciarossa train, because there are no routes with Frecciarossa (or even Frecciargento) anywhere near where I live. However, next month I'll be on a Frecciarossa train between Bologna and Milan, and I'll try to remember to have a look. KYBourbon says they're 2x2 and I have no reason to doubt it, because the seat measurements are identical in width, pitch, and leg room. You don't seem to have checked those numbers on the page for which I gave a link. The numbers are more definitive than a photo.
If there are fewer seats in the Premium class, then the difference would be all in the width of the aisle, because the seats are identical. That might be useful for someone hauling a mega-suitcase, but they'd still have to get it on the train, which wouldn't be easy.
I really don't mind having a seat companion. As I said, the trips that tourists take on Italian trains are usually quite short on a train that goes at 300 km per hour, so the number of times someone has to go past you is very limited. We're not talking about a transatlantic flight. By the way, which class do you fly, Palenq? Does your theory of splurging for a special vacation extend to your flight? I would be tempted to splurge for an overseas flight, but not for a 90-minute ride from Rome to Florence.
In the end, on the Frecciarossa, the choice is really between standard class and business class. As I said, on the train I was reserving yesterday, business class cost more than three times as much as standard class, and I wouldn't dream for a minute of paying €82 extra for a slightly larger seat and a pack of peanuts for a 1-hour trip.
We rode 1st class from York to Glasgow this summer, and that was definitely worth the extra expenditure. The snack was so abundant that we couldn't eat it, and wrapped half of it to take to our hotel, where it served us for supper. You won't find anything like that on 1st class in Italy.
Why do you think 1st class is usually half empty? Could it be that Italians find it a total waste of money?
May 3rd, 2015, 05:01 AM
#16
bvlenci - Premium is 2nd class and doesn't have less seats (Man in Seat 61 also states this on his website). Premium isn't available on all fast trains either. 1st class is business and up, not premium. Additionally, Trenitalia will not let you use a rail pass on premium seats or on Executive (at least not online). They do allow you to use your rail pass to book seats for standard (2nd class pass - 10€), business (1st class pass- 10€), business silenzio (1st class pass - 10€), business salottino (1st class pass - 28€). I don't know if you could use your pass to book premium or executive seats at the station or not, but expect not.
Although standard and premium are both 2nd class with same size seats/recline and same number of seats across (4), the differences are the fabric on the seats, an included drink and newspaper with premium and access to the dining car with premium. Supposedly with a standard fare, you aren't allowed to use the dining car, only the snack bar. I would be surprised if they check your tickets in the dining car, but perhaps they would.
To see what you are actually getting for a fare class, on Trenitalia, when you select a train and all the fare choices show, you can simply mouse over the little i next to the fare name and a pop-up with exactly what you get appears (including seat size).
Although standard and premium are both 2nd class with same size seats/recline and same number of seats across (4), the differences are the fabric on the seats, an included drink and newspaper with premium and access to the dining car with premium. Supposedly with a standard fare, you aren't allowed to use the dining car, only the snack bar. I would be surprised if they check your tickets in the dining car, but perhaps they would.
To see what you are actually getting for a fare class, on Trenitalia, when you select a train and all the fare choices show, you can simply mouse over the little i next to the fare name and a pop-up with exactly what you get appears (including seat size).
May 3rd, 2015, 05:52 AM
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well yes first class or "business" class is what I'm talking about not some second-class + and there is a singificant difference between whatever first class is labeled and 2nd class - 2nd class + and 2nd class no but we are talking about real first class - those cars with the solo seats of one in a row - well worth it in my experience.
On the trip of a lifetime and especially with luggage go first class is my hearty recommendation.
On the trip of a lifetime and especially with luggage go first class is my hearty recommendation.
May 3rd, 2015, 08:32 AM
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If I recall correctly, and I may not be, the Business class on a Frecciarossa train has a spacer between the seats, not bigger aisles. So you're getting more arm room.
Also, if you book crazy far in advance and have a family, there are free kids tickets available with the Business class that make the overall package within a few euros of the lowest class. We sure thought it was worth it.
Also, if you book crazy far in advance and have a family, there are free kids tickets available with the Business class that make the overall package within a few euros of the lowest class. We sure thought it was worth it.
May 3rd, 2015, 08:36 AM
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Also, if you book crazy far in advance and have a family, there are free kids tickets available with the Business class that make the overall package within a few euros of the lowest class. We sure thought it was worth it.>
Many tourists do - that is one reason my hackles get raised a bit by those saying it is stupid to spend even a few euros more as they is no real difference between classes - you know there is, I know there is and anyone who has ridden both classes knows there is - which makes it mysterious to here the same source say over and over there is no difference between first and second class and anyone paying anymore is just plain dumb. This to me is plain misinformation done for whatever reason. maybe to that person it is a waste but not for many who have reported here. First-class may cost just a bit more at times as Monica found out and many think it was worth it.
Many tourists do - that is one reason my hackles get raised a bit by those saying it is stupid to spend even a few euros more as they is no real difference between classes - you know there is, I know there is and anyone who has ridden both classes knows there is - which makes it mysterious to here the same source say over and over there is no difference between first and second class and anyone paying anymore is just plain dumb. This to me is plain misinformation done for whatever reason. maybe to that person it is a waste but not for many who have reported here. First-class may cost just a bit more at times as Monica found out and many think it was worth it.
May 3rd, 2015, 10:08 AM
#20
>>>there are free kids tickets available with the Business class<<<
Kids free (bimbi gratis) is not specific to business class so you could book free kids in standard class at lower rates. The kids free negates other available discounts no matter the class. It can often be cheaper to book as all adults (if super economy fares are available) than booking adults + free kids. Most people don't look at the various prices, but a random train Rome/Naples you can select four adults for a price of 68€. For the exact same train (same day/time, same class), you can change it to two adults and two kids and get a super economy price of 52€ for all four travelers. If you select the kids free option, your price jumps to 86€. That's because you lose the other discounts as the kids free can be combined with other discounts.
>>>>Many tourists do - that is one reason my hackles get raised a bit by those saying it is stupid to spend even a few euros more as they is no real difference between classes<<<
PQ - You kept insisting premium was 1st class when it isn't and comparing prices based on that incorrect assumption. That is the seat that is only a few euro difference, not 1st class. Two wrong assumptions (kids free being specific to business or cheaper and premium being first class).
Kids free (bimbi gratis) is not specific to business class so you could book free kids in standard class at lower rates. The kids free negates other available discounts no matter the class. It can often be cheaper to book as all adults (if super economy fares are available) than booking adults + free kids. Most people don't look at the various prices, but a random train Rome/Naples you can select four adults for a price of 68€. For the exact same train (same day/time, same class), you can change it to two adults and two kids and get a super economy price of 52€ for all four travelers. If you select the kids free option, your price jumps to 86€. That's because you lose the other discounts as the kids free can be combined with other discounts.
>>>>Many tourists do - that is one reason my hackles get raised a bit by those saying it is stupid to spend even a few euros more as they is no real difference between classes<<<
PQ - You kept insisting premium was 1st class when it isn't and comparing prices based on that incorrect assumption. That is the seat that is only a few euro difference, not 1st class. Two wrong assumptions (kids free being specific to business or cheaper and premium being first class).
