Italy train travel

Old Apr 20th, 2016, 10:47 AM
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Italy train travel

Want to travel Milan - Florence and since they do not have any flights was thinking about trains. Is this possible with 3 bags and a huge box? What I mean is do the trains stop for long periods? Took a train from Vienna to Salzburg a couple years back and barely had time to take me tiny carry on before the doors closed
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 10:53 AM
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No,trains do not stop for long periods. Maybe a couple of minutes. Normally the conductor will be on the lookout for anyone struggling, though, as will maybe other passengers, but I wouldn't count on it. The trains are on strict schedules.
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 11:17 AM
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Don't wait with getting your luggage until the train has stopped. You'll notice when the train is arriving at your destination. Get yourself at the door with your luggage and chances are people will help you with your belongings.
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 11:28 AM
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They announce the stop, you get up, coast on, bag off rack and walk to door.

Train stops, press door open button, get off with bag.

So simple it hardly needs explaining, surely? ;0)

If you book to Florence SMN station, this is a terminus where the driver has to change ends, so the trains stops for 9 or 10 minutes rather than the usual 1-4 minutes as at a through station.

Fares from €19 at www.trenitalia.com - centre to centre with no extra to pay to get to remote airports, no baggage fees, no booking fees, no hidden extras.
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 11:34 AM
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Thanks everybody! Yes I will be booking to Santa Maria Novella. I have another related question. The first class tickets seem to be pretty cheap. If I do book a first class, will it be any better? Like will I receive help or maybe someone asks the driver to open the door longer?
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 11:50 AM
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First class is a lot more relaxed than 2nd class - 25% fewer seats in same-size train car as in 2nd class cars - more room to easily stow luggage - there may be empty seats to put it on- 2nd class is usually pretty full and you get free drink and pastry and Italian newspaper in 1st class I think. So if price is not much difference IMO it's a no-brainer to go first class. But no one will open the train door for you - the doors will remain open till everyone gets off - a conductor on the platform sees to that and will usually whistle the driver to slowly start moving the train.

Someone wrote the other day that they only difference between 1st and 2nd class was 10cm of seat width being larger - pay no attention to that misinformation as there are plenty of other significant differences - like in first class only can you get a solo seat - an aisle and a window seat - no being bothered to get up and get out to the loo, snack bar, etc or bothering others to do so plus lots of elbow room, etc.

There is a lot more difference than just 10cm of seat width yet that poster keeps repeating that misinformation - just ignore it as such! (Some folks are so so keen to say there is no difference between the classes for some reason that they distort things - if there were no difference zillions of Italians would never pay more for first class.)

There are porters I believe in some Italian stations - you may inquire about that service in Milan if there can be one waiting in Florence - but there are also luggage carts you can use inside the station and to the taxi queues - carry a one-euro coin to disengage the cart from the rack - if you return it to any rack in the station area you'll get your euro coin back. (Was one euro coin last I knew!)

For lots of great info on Italian trains and things like the difference between 1st and 2ndclass check www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and seat61.com - Man in Seat 61 who posts above his very successful commercial site.
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 12:37 PM
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No, you will not receive help for having a 1st class ticket. Face it, you book a train in Europe and you have too much luggage, it's your problem.

Nobody opens the door longer just because there is some guy with too much stuff. The doors open and close on the train schedule. If you can't handle it, cut down on the luggage or find some other way to travel.
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 12:48 PM
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The doors open and close on the train schedule.>

Not really IME - if there are a load of folks getting off slowly and the train is due to leave and folks still queuing to get on and off the doors will not slam shut or should not - especially getting off - everyone gets off the train before folks start piling on - if it's late the train will be held up - that said if there is no one entering and you are not off then the doors may shut and the train start moving - with big luggage put it in the large luggage racks near the door and be there first - stand there a few minutes before the train arrives and be the first one to get out - if your luggage is bulky someone - a passenger - inevitably will help you get it to the platform.

How big is that huge box - you could send it ahead by UPS,FedEx or the postal system, etc. (trains do not check luggage any more in Italy I think) if it is going to an address.

Are you moving to Florence? Is there no one to meet and help you - porters are rare but I've seen them in Italian stations (and beware of anyone who looks like a porter who may also help with the bag - getting it out the door and beyond - porters should have official badges on).
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 12:58 PM
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My kids and I have traveled by train 2010 and 2012 twice with lots of luggage. What we would do and do next trip is between the stations, the one before your final destination we stand and ride by our luggage by the doors. One we stop at our destination we drop one suitcase at a time to the platform and one is receiving if not help needed, it takes us 15-30 sec if we are fast. Just put them by you and once the doors open drop them one at a time next to the steps. The inspector will wait for you if he sees you are dropping things out. Don't hand your luggage to anybody.
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Old Apr 20th, 2016, 02:12 PM
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Don't hand your luggage to anybody.>

Yes indeedy- there was a spate of theft of such bags in Rome Termini not long ago according to one press report I saw here- fake porters are legendary in Italy's big mobbed stations but I think may be a thing of the past with security crackdowns in stations but...
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 05:48 AM
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There is porter service in both Milano Centrale and Firenze S. Maria Novella stations. You have to reserve it calling 199 423 456. Here is the description, available only in Italian.

http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom/Offer...li-in-stazione

You can run it through translate.google.com to get a decent translation.

Space on the train might be a problem depending on the size of the bags and the box. If the box won't fit on the luggage rack, I don't know where you'd put it.

Between Milan and Florence on the Frecciarossa trains, there's only one stop, in Bologna, and I wouldn't want to stand near the door all the way from Bologna to Florence, over half an hour. Also, it sounds as though you may be traveling alone, so the idea of passing the bags off the train wouldn't work. If you hire the porter service, they'll surely help you get them on the train, but I don't know if they can help at the other end unless they know what carriage you're in. Maybe you can tell them at the time you reserve the service, if you already have your train reservation.
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 06:02 AM
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I'd like to see some documentation of the baggage theft at Termini station. I read about theft of luggage outside the station, where people were waiting for the airport bus, but I haven't heard of thefts by false porters inside the station.

While you're at it, Palenq, maybe you could furnish statistics about the zillion passengers riding 1st class. In fact, Trenitalia has more than twice as many standard/premium seats as business/executive seats, and yet they are almost always still offering discounts on business seats when discounts on the standard seats have sold out. Ergo, most Italian train riders don't choose first class.
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 07:36 AM
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why do Italian trains even have first class? enough said!

bvienci - how would you characterize the difference between first and second class on Italian trains? And if a discounted ticket was not much more in 1st then 2nd would it be worth going first class.

Note Italian residents who ride trains do not typically carry large luggage around - yes Italians going short distances usually go 2nd class but on the trip of a lifetime where folks are typically spending $200-300 a night on hotels don't skimp on rail travel - especially if carrying a lot of luggage. Again see www.seat61.com for an objective description of first class benefits and Man in Seat 61 posted here once that 'he was an aficionado of first class himself' - wonder why?

Put yourselves into the shoes of a foreign tourists on the trip of a lifetime and not a local carrying a day pack at most usually.
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 08:31 AM
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The trip between Milan and Florence is almost always on high-speed Frecciarossa trains. The trip takes a little over an hour and a half, with one stop in Bologna. I wouldn't even get up at all on such a short trip.

On the Frecciarossa trains, there is no 1st and 2nd class. There are four classes:

Standard is what would be called 2nd class on the other high speed trains. This is the class we usually choose, and we do use the trains to go on holiday as well as to make day or weekend trips. Last year, we went to the Italian lakes and Switzerland by train, for instance, and this year we're beginning our two-week trip to Ireland by taking the train to Rome.

Premium has a seat configuration identical to Standard. It may be less crowded just because no one feels like spending more just to get leather seats.

Business corresponds to what 1st class would be on other high-speed trains. The seats are arranged with two facing seats on one side of the corridor, and four facing seats (two facing two) on the other side. As Palenq says, you do have the possibility (but not a guarantee) of a single seat, but you'll still have someone facing you. The seats are a little wider than in Standard class, but there is no additional leg room. Luggage storage space, overhead and at the end of the car, is the same, although since there are fewer people in the car, the space is less likely to be full. Many people like to put their suitcases behind the seat back, and here the single seats have a disadvantage. A fair-sized suitcase will fit behind the double seats, on its side, but not behind the single seats. Here again, you're not guaranteed this space, because for every two (single) or four (double) seats, there's one behind-the-seat space. I've sometimes put my bag behind someone else's seats, if none of the occupants of those seats has a suitcase.

There are two sub-classes of Business: Salottino, which is an entire compartment for your group, and Silenzioso, which is a quiet car.

Executive has single reclining armchairs with leg rests. If I were really pulling out all the stops, this is the class I'd choose. I've traveled many times in business class, because (as I said above) they often are selling these seats at steep discounts when there are no discounts left in Standard class. Therefore, I know what I'm talking about, and I wouldn't pay more than a few euros more for the "luxury" Palenq seems to see in these carriages.

My vacations (and I believe those of most of the rest of those reading this) are not "trips of a lifetime". We have a nice vacation every year, in addition to the time we spend at our summer house, and the time we spend visiting relatives in far-flung places. If I threw money away on pointless "upgrades", we might not be able to travel so much.

So, if you really want a luxurious train trip from Milan to Florence, go Executive Class (base price €124). Otherwise, I would advise Standard class (base price €54), because the price difference for Business class (base price €74) isn't justified by the piddling difference. Of course, as I said, Business can cost less than Standard if the discounts are sold out in Standard and still available in Business. That's why I've had enough experience in Business Class to be able to compare the two.
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 08:43 AM
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By the way, the newest Frecciarossa 1000 trains have only 8 cars instead of 11. They've eliminated 2 Business class cars (1 1/2 instead of 3 1/2) and 1 Standard class car. (4 instead of 5). There's really only 1 business class car on these trains, and 1 car that's half bar car (for the whole train) and half business class.

Why do you think, Palenq, that they've cut back so drastically on Business class?

They've completely eliminated the Salottino compartments, as well.

However, these newer trains don't serve Florence (yet), so Jetset will be on an older Frecciarossa 500.
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 10:40 AM
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Well things are changing on Italian trains but my original point that IF the discounted first class seats were not much more than 2ndclass - a few euros then it's a no-brainer to do first class - if it costs a ton of money difference then probably no.
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Old Apr 21st, 2016, 10:44 AM
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I'd like to see some documentation of the baggage theft at Termini station. I read about theft of luggage outside the station, where people were waiting for the airport bus, but I haven't heard of thefts by false porters inside the station.>

Well read the following:

http://www.italymagazine.com/news/ne...ermini-station

At least as of 2014 fake porters inside the station were a problem - surprised you did not know that - and I said with increased security may not be a problem anymore but just a few years ago was and may be again who knows - just don't hand your bags to any ole arm outstretched - probably a nice helper but you never know.

Hopefully after the 2015 crackdown on rampant crime inside and out of Termini this will not be a problem in the future.
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Old Apr 22nd, 2016, 12:35 AM
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Thanks guys for your help! One additional question bvlenci if you don't mind?
Are porters available for Italotreno as well because my friends have told me it's far superior than Trenitalia?
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Old Apr 22nd, 2016, 02:36 AM
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'Don't hand your luggage to anybody.>'

Ah... I always offer help, esp to families and women. If you can't interact with people stay home...

Much less now to older people, they are quite often very disagreeable. Especially if US - they are fearing so much that they are being ripped that they react strangely.

I have never stolen anything. ;-)
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Old Apr 22nd, 2016, 08:17 AM
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I believe the porter service I mentioned is for the station, not for a particular train company.

Italo and Trenitalia are about equal in my opinion. Italo is not doing very well, so their fare sales tend to go on for longer. If you can make your whole trip on Italo, and the price is right, I'd choose them.

However, if you need to change to a Trenitalia train at some point in your journey, you should take Trenitalia all the way, because they'll guarantee connections between their own trains, but of course not with an Italo train.

Italo has cut service in the last two years. I had high hopes for them, especially since they also planned to compete on regional service, but all those plans seem to have been laid aside.
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