Italy, Spain and France

Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 06:52 PM
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Italy, Spain and France

We are four people, two couples, 55 years old, traveling for 21 days through these cities. I have booked all 6 apts, flights, and rental cars, now need to know what not to miss, good restaurants not too expensive, 40-50 euro's pp. Also any tricks to avoid lines, like purchasing ahead, pay for guide, getting their early, etc.

Sat. Day 1 Venice, Arrive by plane at 1 pm, carry on, get water taxi to take us on tour then to our rental apt. Go for walk, have dinner Where?, walk around after dinner head back to apt..

Sunday Day 2 Florence, walk around Venice some more pick up rental car at 11 am, head to rental apt 15 minutes outside Florence on Vineyard.

Monday Day 3 Florence, take train into Florence, walk around, see the two major art galleries at some point during stay.

Tuesday Day 4 Florence, Take train into Florence, walk around visit market, take 2 pm cooking class.

Wed, Day 5 Florence, should we see Pisa on day trip?

Thurs. Day 6 Florence,

Friday Day 7 Rome. Drive to Rome drop off car and head to Apt. other side of the river from train station. Walk around, have dinner.

Sat. Day 8 Rome, head early to St. Peters, on to Coliseum, have time for more

Sun. Day 9 Rome, Trevi, Spanish Steps,

Monday Day 10 Barcelona, fly to Barcelona,

Tuesday Day 11 Barcelona, Thinking of renting car and going to Salvador Dali Museum

Wed. Day 12 Barcelona

Thurs. Day 13 Marbella, fly to Malaga, rent car drive to apt. near Marbella

Friday Day 14 Marbella

Sat. Day 15 Marbella drive to Rondo for day

Sun. Day 16 Marbella

Monday Day 17 Marbella, Granada

Tues. Day 18 Marbella, Rock of Gibraltar? eat fish and chips

Wed. Day 19 Paris, Fly into Paris from Malaga, arrive 2 pm, Apt downtown district 3.

Thursday Day 20 Paris, will want to see Louver, eiffel tower, take water bus, eat, people watch at cafe drinking beer, wine or coffee.

Friday Day 21 Paris

Sat. Day 22 Home fly home from Paris at 2 pm

thanks,
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Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 07:18 PM
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Why so much time in Marbella?
Skip Gibraltar as it will take much longer than you think.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 07:33 PM
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Do I understand your listing? You are staying less than 24 hours in Venice with a couple of hours on arrival evening and may be one hour the next day?

From your listing, you are using a car to get from A to B to C, Venice, Florence, Rome. Have you decided on using a car after comparing to using a train?

"two major art galleries at some point" means Accademia and Iffizi? If you don't have reserved time slot, you would wait and wait.

St. Peters + Colosseum are both time consuming especially if you meant to include the Palatine Hill and the Forum and even more if you include the Vatican museum. Colosseum and the Vatican museums come with long ticket queues if you don't have a time slot reserved. Colosseum, depending on when you are visiting, have additional tour choices: underground+3rd level, night visit,etc. http://www.coopculture.it/en/the-colosseum.cfm

The next day, Trevi fountains + Spanish step don't take much time. One highly packed day then little activity the next. The Trevi fountains is in scaffold if you are visiting soon, so it takes very little time unless you are interested in fountain constructions. This is how it looks right now: https://www.skylinewebcams.com/en/we...-di-trevi.html

Granada=Alhambra? You are advised to pre-book a time slot, depending on when you are going, to visit the Nasrid Palace.

You have done well to book open jaw and not driving into Florence.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 08:48 PM
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Did you pre-pay for lodgings? Can they be cancelled without a penalty?

It is a lopsided itinerary.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 10:01 PM
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I, too, am having trouble making sense of this plan. Please let us know what is fixed and what is still negotiable so we can offer some constructive input.
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Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 11:00 PM
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I can't get my head around about 6 free hours in Venice (after checking into the apartment - you can't count much on day two if you are collecting your car by 11AM) and 6 days Marbella

(and just 2 days in Paris) . . . unless you've all been to Venice and Paris several times previously
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Old Aug 2nd, 2015, 11:17 PM
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My immediate thoughts mirror those above.

Venice add a day, add two and visit Chioggia

Pisa; I'd visit Lucca and possibly Pisa (but Pisa in the late afternoon, Lucca in the morning.

Marebella; given that you actually fly into Malaga not sure why you chose the poorer town, I'm assuming you are visiting family or friends. If not I would rearrange to Malaga. You do know about the museums in Malaga I guess?

Rome; Trevi Fountain and Spanish Steps; why, the first is just a pickpockets paradise and the second is a bunch of steps with no, I repeat no, real interest except that most of the top branded shops hang out nearby to help take money out of you pocket. Given how little you are doing in Rome it looks crazy to spend any time in these two spots.

Barcelona, it depends on which bits of the Dali musuem or workshops you want to visit, nearly all are accessible by train/bus/metro. I suggest http://www.barcelonaturisme.com/wv3/en/ is a good place to start

Other than that, the open jaw makes sense and the single elements make a lot of sense, just a bit of re-shaping and planning is required.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 02:56 AM
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Only you know your interests and why these places appeal to you but IMHO you have given very short shrift to Venice and Paris (have you seen them both before?) and even Rome - and are spending a lot of time in Marbella and Florence (unless you are mad for the art).

A couple of other notes:

taking a water taxi tour of Venice will be very expensive - just getting in from the airport will be 100 euros and a tour of the city much more.

Not sure where you are staying in Rome but it sounds like it may be very far from the center and require a lot of time trekking back and forth from the major sights.

Gibraltar is a must miss - nothing but a big rock and a bunch of nasty monkeys that like to bite and steal things. Also getting to and fro across the border can take forever.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 03:28 AM
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Just random comments:

If I'm reading correctly, you're spending about 24 hours in Venice, most of which you'll be in jet-lag-recovery mode? Why bother?

Florence museums: Book ahead via the international phone reservation system. It's quick and easy, there's no surcharge for the tix, and you don't pay until you show up.

Recommend more time in Paris.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 04:46 AM
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I mostly agree with all of the above, and maybe it's too late to change anything, but it appears that you've rented a villa outside of Florence just so you can commute into Florence on four successive days. Wouldn't it be better just to stay in Florence and spend one day commuting to some place in the countryside? Then you could skip the car rental and take the train from Venice to Florence, which is both faster and cheaper than driving.

I also don't understand why so many days in Florence and so few in Venice, Rome, and Paris. Even if you're an art lover, you'd be missing lots of fantastic art in those other cities. If you're not passionate about Renaissance art, it makes no sense at all. In fact, if you're not passionate about Renaissance art, I'd skip the Uffizi altogether and visit some of the churches with wonderful Renaissance art on display.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 07:12 AM
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>>If I'm reading correctly, you're spending about 24 hours in Venice, most of which you'll be in jet-lag-recovery mode? Why bother?land at 1PM so most likely won't be into the city until after 2PM. Then they need to pack up, clear the flat and get to the car rental office by 11AM - so basically the morning is pretty much shot.

(They probably need to check in to the apartment in the afternoon so not sure how much of a 'tour' the water taxi can provide them on the way in from the airport)

Venice as a pit stop . . .
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 09:12 AM
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Wow you guys are tough. We are looking at walking / sight seeing in Rome, Barcelona, and Paris. Here we are looking for ideas. hence the open schedule. We are looking at sight seeing and relaxing in Tuscany and Marbella. Thank you for "but Pisa in the late afternoon, Lucca in the morning". This is something we will definitely do. Also will contact to book tickets in advance for the art galleries, St Peters, colosseum, and other venues that were suggested, again thanks for the input. Looking for ideas second day in Rome, we will all ready have seen St Peters and Colosseum. In Spain is the Dali Museum worth going to? Would rent car so I can be there when it opens and still be backing Barcelona to sight see by 1 or 2 pm. We are not planning on go, go, go the whole 21 days. I have been to Rome, but no one else has. Paris was an expensive after thought and three nights, keeps costs down. Remember we have not traveled like it sounds most of you have. Things most people want to see in Europe is Statue of David, Trevi fountain, Colosseum, St Peters, need to add to the list what can't you miss in Venice and Barcelona? In stead of shooting down the itinerary, add what is not to be missed in each place. We are not art majors, so if we only see the best and biggest galleries that will be enough.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 10:09 AM
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Just a quick comment -- I'm dashing out.

Forget any idea of seeing much in Venice let alone the 'musts'. Simply a fact. You will have just the evening and that will be very jetlagged for at least some of you.

Venice is not a place you can navigate/see in a quick few, bleary eyed hours. It takes time (sometimes a LOT of time) to get from one neighborhood to another.

So use the water taxi as your brief intro to the city and just walk around the neighborhood immediately surrounding your apartment. Eat an early-ish dinner and get a good night's sleep - to gear up for the rest of your destinations.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 10:46 AM
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Your criteria is too subjective and almost contradictory and your dates and agenda too fixed. It is probably best to consult authoritative guides and make the decision that is best for you.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 12:22 PM
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Marbella is tawdry, full of tacky Spanish mini-celebs and other idiots trying to look chic. If you want to salivate over yachts, ferraris, Russian mafia types and the odd oil sheik and pay totally through the nose in pubs, restaurants and cafés, then Marbella is unmissable, yes. Ronda is magical though. I'd hole up there for a few days. When the tour buses have gone it's lovely. Gibraltar is truly awful and if you want proper fish & chips, you're better of going to North Norfolk in England. Just an opinion.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 12:49 PM
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Why get a car to just drive between Venice and Florence it seems then take trains into the city and end up in hectic Rome with a car - consider all train and maybe a cab ride to get to your Vineyard to start?

Anyway trains are much cheaper if booked well in advance - discounted tickets are sold in limited numbers and often sell out weeks early - walk-up fares are always available IME once there but you pay a lot more. (Exception - regional trains are flat-fare dirt-cheap - like Florence to Pisa or your Vineyard to Florence I would suppose. www.trenitalia.com is the state railway site for early booking and there are other competitors and folks selling the same tickets if Trenitalia.com is fickle and won't work for you as it won't for many. For general info on Italian trains check www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Driving straight thru Venice to Florence ain't no fun on autostradas and toll are very very high along with high costing gas. Seems you will be using a car very very little - trains are great now in Italy.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 04:11 PM
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"Florence ... see the two major art galleries at some point during stay."

If you mean the Uffizi and the Academia, consider booking in advance

"Thinking of renting car and going to Salvador Dali Museum.... is the Dali Museum worth going to? Would rent car so I can be there when it opens and still be backing Barcelona to sight see by 1 or 2 pm."

I think that depends on the strength of your interest in Dali. FWIW, I spent about one-and-a-half hours at the Teatro Museo Dali and then another 1/2 hour at Dali-Jewels. I am not a great fan of Dali, but I do find his work interesting. I have no regrets about my time in these museums, particularly because I was passing near Figueres, and so stopping there made for a good break from what would have been a long day of driving.

The time it took me to visit the Teatro Museo reflects not only my interest, but also the crowds I encountered there in late May -- lines to get into specific rooms were not at all uncommon. I did not think the Teatro Museo an ideal exhibit space -- the access to various rooms was limited and the corridors that would have lined the boxes were, to my thinking, too narrow to accommodate the crowds. That said, the larger exhibit spaces, like the former stage, were well suited (IMO) to communicating the artist's vision. And I did see some memorable works -- some that are now among my favorites by Dali.

If you decide to go, I would not rent a car to get there; instead, I would take the train.

"Monday Day 17 Marbella, Granada"

I personally would not recommend trying to see the Alhambra as a day trip. You can visit during the day, when you can see the rest of the Alhambra along with lots of other tourists and also listen to an audioguide or work with a guide if you want; plan on AT LEAST half-day for that. You can also visit at night, when you might be able to see either the Nasrid Palace or the Generalife with just a few others. I thought the night visit to the Nasrid Palace among the highlights of ALL of my travels, and was very glad to have seen it first during the day, when I could better see some of the details and see it within the context of the broader gardens and buildings. JMO. Whatever you decide, book WELL in advance!


You will see some wonderful things no matter what you end up choosing.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 04:32 PM
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>>>Monday Day 3 Florence, take train into Florence, walk around, see the two major art galleries at some point during stay.
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 04:41 PM
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BTW, I think the particular convention you used to specify your itinerary threw many of us off -- it certainly did for me! I think the city you list first for each day is where you plan to spend the night? By listing it first without telling us that you were doing so certainly confused me.... But then, maybe my conclusion is wrong and I still don't understand! ;-)
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Old Aug 3rd, 2015, 05:01 PM
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You do not need to be art history experts to know that there ae MANY other things to see/do in venice and rome than those listed by the OP. Simply glancing at the destinations section above - or any basic guide book would provide a list of dozens of world class sights in each city.

Naturally one can't see everything. But at least look at a few sources to see which things are most important to those on the trip.

In Venice how will you see the Doge's Palace, enjoy sitting in san Marco listening to the lovely music while sipping a drink. In Rome do you just want to whip through St Peter's Basilica - no interest in the Vatican Museums, or Treasury or Dome or Scavi? And as for the Colosseum of course it;s famous - but how can you not visit the Forum (the legal, religious and cultural center of ancient Rome), the Pantheon - or any of the many beautiful piazzas with beautiful fountains perfect for a floodlit walk home after diner? Never mind the dozens of other major sites - which depend on YOUR interests.
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