robyn14

If I purchase a one country Italy rail pass (or for that matter, a multi-country Eurail pass which includes Italy), I understand I will still need to pay an additional reservation fee to travel on the Italian high speed Frecciarossa trains. But when I look at the options for this train (e.g. from Florence to Naples), there are six different seating options to choose from (as opposed to the Frecciargento which simply offers the typical first class and second class options):
1) STANDARD
2) PREMIUM
3) BUSINESS AREA SILENZIO
4) BUSINESS
5) BUSINESS SALOTTINO
6) EXECUTIVE

If I have a second class pass, it appears I can only travel in the STANDARD seating.

But if I have a first class pass, which seating will I be able to travel in once I pay the additional 10 euro fee to reserve the seat on a specific train? Will I be able to travel in BUSINESS or EXECUTIVE with my first class rail pass by only paying the additional 10 euro seat reservation fee?

Thanks.

kybourbon

Unless you are traveling very long distances or doing day trips from a base city and returning at the end of the day, you probably don't want a pass.It won't be cost effective. You can often buy tickets for fast trains on Trenitalia as cheap as a pass supplement for a seat reservations (early booking discounts for as little as 9€). Tickets purchased on Trenitalia include your seat.

What is your itinerary?

This is a pic of 2nd class on the fast trains.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg

Loco2com

You don't mention when you're travelling! If it's in 3 months time then look out for the cheap advance fares which will be much cheaper than the average you'll pay when you divide the cost of a pass and the reservations. I don't think passes even really represent flexibility unless you travel on the slowest of trains.

robyn14

Although we will be traveling in late August, we do not want to be locked into taking specific trains. We are currently trying to decide if the pass would be worthwhile, as since we won't know until the day of travel (or possible the night before), we are trying to compare the pass with the full base fares. We do not want to travel on the slowest trains. We understand that having this flexibility will cost us more money.

We will be entering Italy at Tirano (after taking the Bernina Express route from Switzerland), then traveling straight to Venice. Then to Florence +/- a day trip from Florence to some combo of Pisa, and/or San Gimignano, and/or Siena (any advice on those towns?), then from Florence to Salerno, then from Salerno to Rome.

To answer my original question though (if anyone is interested), I figured it out with trial and error at the Trenitalia website. Apparently, the first class rail pass allows for travel in BUSINESS and BUSINESS AREA SILENZIO for the base 10 euro per seat reservation fee (same fee for adults and children). There is an option to select BUSINESS SALOTTINO, but the reservation fee increases to 22 euro per seat. There is no option to select PREMIUM or EXECUTIVE when using a "Global Pass" and although the STANDARD is an option, this would be the one available for those using a second class rail pass.

kybourbon

The advance purchase price for Florence/Naples will likely be 29€ for either standard or premium on Trenitalia which includes your seat. You can't buy a pass day plus seat reservation (10€) that cheap. The only difference in standard and premium is the material on the seats and premium has a little piece of plexiglass above the head rest that extends about a foot above it.

For routes like Naples/Rome, you can find prices usually around 19€.

Besides Trenitalia, there is another rail company, Italorail which is only two years old (new trains!). You can often find 20€ fares on many of their routes. They currently serve the major cities in Italy. A random search shows many discounts for Florence/Naples at 30€. Railpasses can't be used on Italo Rail.

http://www.italotreno.it/en/Pages/default.aspx

kybourbon

Some of your route is only served by slow trains so you won't have a choice. The walk up price for Florence/Pisa (it's slow trains on this) is under 10€.

San Gimignano is not served by trains. Siena has a train station (only served by slow trains), but not in the center. The bus from from Florence to Siena drops your right in the center and is the better option. Bus or train is only 7€. It would be silly to spend a $65 for a pass day on a 7€ ride.

I can't see any advantage to a pass for your route. Seat reservations are mandatory in Italy on all trains, but the slow R trains. That means you will have to pin down your fast trains or hope there is availability when you show up at the station. You are traveling in the Italian residents vacation period (and also much of Europe).

I don't see Tirano showing up on Trenitalia. It may be a Trenord route and I don't know that they allow rail passes. There are private rail lines that serve some areas and passes are not accepted.

kybourbon

I see Tirano is Trenord which will only be regional trains. There is no 1st or 2nd class on that route as is the case on many regional trains (Florence/Pisa,Florence/Siena) - all one class.

PalenQ

the pass will be a good deal for first class travel perhaps if YOU

PalenQ

the pass will be a good deal for first class travel perhaps if you desire flexibility to chose which train to ride once there and there are lots of benefits of first class - lots more empty seats IME - larger seats - free drinks and snacks, etc - fewer seats in same train car, etc - for the trip of a lifetime go first class as you are inclined to to - I always have a first-class pass and love having it - for lots of great info on Italian trains and passes check out these IMO fine sites - www.seat61.com; http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id12.html; and www.ricksteves.com.

Go to www.trenitalia.com and check full fares vs the pass and you may find even with the 10 euro surcharge the pass if you want full flexibility as I and many do and not have to book some a non-changeable non-refundble ticket weeks in advance.

kybourbon

PQ always pushes 1st class passes, yet half of your listed route has no 1st or 2nd class.

Tirano/Milan - no class - walk up price 11€

Florence/Pisa - no class - walk up price 7.80€

Florence/Siena - no class - walk up price 8.50€ (should use bus instead)

You would only have a class choice on Milan/Venice,Venice/Florence, Florence/Salerno and Salerno/Rome.

You mentioned a child rate. Your child might not be allowed in the silent car (BUSINESS AREA SILENZIO). Salottino is a seating for 4 people which may or may not work for you depending on how many are traveling.

It's easy to find the walk up prices on Trenitalia. It's listed as base price. You can add up the base prices for your fast trains, convert to $ and divide by day to get a per day cost. To compare to the pass, divide the days of the pass (looks like you would need a four day pass) and add on $13 per seat reservation (10€). If you are looking at the saver pass, divide by number of travelers and then per day before adding the seat fee.

Man_in_seat_61

I travelled first class between Milan and Tirano, the first class cars are painted red rather than grey/green and have 2+1 seats instead of the 2nd class 2+2 across the car width.

2nd class costs just over €10, we pushed the board out and paid €15 for first class Milan-Tirano tickets!

Man_in_seat_61

boat out, no board!

But yes, Milan-Tirano does have first class. Not that you'd waste a €60-per-day pass day taking a €15 train ride!

kybourbon

>>>But yes, Milan-Tirano does have first class.<<<

Only on some trains, not all. It would not be worth it to me to hang around the station an extra hour to catch one. If one works out for your times then it is only 6.50€ more than 2nd.

FYI - Trenitalia is running a promo for kids to travel free (until mid Sept.). Don't know if you can book it walk up.

***BIMBI GRATIS:

To purchase the Bimbi Gratis offer on this website proceed as follows:
enter the number of adults and children (at least 1 adult and 1 child)
in the page "Choice of travel" select the option "View other prices and services"in the next page select in the scroller the offer "Bimbi gratis" for all passengers.****

http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...008916f90aRCRD