adventures6

We were headed to Israel in two weeks but in light of the civil unrest we have changed
our plans and are going to Italy instead. We are traveling with four kids (13,11,8,6). We fly into Venice ( 2nights) and out of Rome (3 nights). I would love help in planning our itinerary for the time between those two cities. We would have liked to visit Cinque Terre or the Amalfi Coast but realize this may be bad idea because of how crowded those places will be. We would like to try to fit in some hiking in the Dolmites. Two other things we want to do are spend 1 day in Florence to visit the Uffizi Gallery and 1 day in Pompei.
Could you help me how to work this out? We don't plan on renting a car because we keep hearing how terrible the traffic will be August. Can I do this all by train? Where should we base ourselves for the Dolmites and Pompei portions of our trip? Is this all even doable? Please advise!

Day 1: arrive 11am Venice; sleep Venice
Day 2: Explore Venice; sleep Venice
Day 3: train to Dolmite area? , sleep in Bolzano or Castelrotto?
Day 4: Hike Dolomites, sleep in Bolzano or Castelrotto
Day 5: Domites area train to Florence; sleep in Florence
Day 6:Uffizi Gallery, train to Sorrento or somewhere near Pompei
Day 7:train to (don't know what to do this day); sleep Ravello or Sorrento? want to visit Pompei early next day.
Day 8: Visit Pompei; sleep in Rome
Day 9: Colosseum, Roman Forum, Pantheon, Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain; sleep Rome
Day 10: Vatican City; sleep Rome
Day 11: Leave Rome @6:10pm

Thank you for your help.

PalenQ

sleep Ravello or Sorrento? >

For what you have outlined - just wanting to see Pompeii and not the Amalfi Coast then definitely sleep in Sorernto, just a short commuter train ride from the Pompeii Scavi train station, smack at the entrance to the ruins.

Sorrento is a very pleasant watering hole with zillions of hotels for all budgets - from florence train to Naples Centrale then hop on the CircumVesuviana commuter train to Sorrento - you can buy only a ticket on www.trenitalia.com to Naples Centrale I believe then just buy the few euro ticket from there to Sorrento at the ticket window in the separate station, connected to Centrale by walkways, where the Circum Vesuviana trains start.

Go to www.trenitalia.com and www.italotreno.it and www.raileurope.com to compare ticket prices - if you book far enough in advance you can get on any of these deep discounted tickets for a specific train but as they are sold in limited numbers booking weeks early is imperative to insure availability - then there are restrictions on changing, refunding I believe.

RailEurope USA has recently began offering many of the same discounted tickets as on trenitalia.com - in fact in my random searches RailEurope has even been cheaper than www.trenitalia.com so look at all three sites and see what is best. www.trenitalia.com flummoxes many novice users but the other two seem to be a snap to work.

For lots of great info on Italian trains check: www.seat61.com - great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Finally first class has lots of benefits over 2nd class, especially for folks carrying baggage around - lot more space to easily stow them IME in first class so IMO on the trip of a lifetime pay the extra for first class and there are first-class discounted tickets too - sometimes at not much more than 2nd class ones so check prices for each class.

Debs

Day 9 is pretty packed! Hopefully you've considered looking into getting 'skip the line' tickets at the Colosseum and/or Forum (waits over 2 hrs not unheard of). No need for tickets at the Pantheon, Steps and/or Trevi Fountain (which will be wall-to-wall people).

Day 10 - Vatican. Long security lines to enter St Peters. If visiting Vacitan museums, you should purchase tickets in advance, again to skip the line. You will be packed like sardines in the Sistine Chapel, with the guards shouting 'no photos'!

Good luck in putting this all together in such a short amount of time!
Sorrento would be the easiest connection to reach Pompeii - take the Circumvensuviana directly there - and exit at Pompeii Scavi. There are auto guides to rent or plenty of guides for hire once you get there. Make sure you have water bottles with you (there is little shade) and wear comfortable shoes as most of the walking is on cobblestones.

ekc

WAY too many stops for 11 days, especially in the heat of July/August.

You only have a very short afternoon in Venice on Day 1, because you may land at 11:00, but you have to go through immigration, get your luggage, get to your hotel, check-in, have lunch, then you will likely be wiped from jetlag. So you really will have 1.25 days in Venice.

I will leave the Dolomites to others, as I have not yet visited (going to Bolzano in September).

If the only thing you want to see in Florence in the Uffizi (art overkill to me), then why not do it as a day trip from Rome? It will save the time you lose each time you change hotels/cities.

I would also see Pompeii as a day trip from Rome. One less hotel change and time saved.

So my itin would look something like this:

Day 1: afternoon in Venice
Day 2: Venice
Day 3: Venice
Day 4: train to Dolomites
Day 5: Hike
Day 6: train to Rome, afternoon in Rome
Day 7: Rome
Day 8: Daytrip to Florence
Day 9: Rome
Day 10: Daytrip to Pompeii
Day 11: morning in Rome, leave for airport at 2:00.

PalenQ

Day 9: Colosseum, Roman Forum, Pantheon, Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain; sleep Rome
Day 10: Vatican City; sleep Rome>

The Vatican need not take more than half a day for the average tourist - combine the two days and drag some sites from an impossibly hectic Day 9 to Day 10 - like things more near the Vatican like the Pantheon and Spanish Steps - S Steps and Trevi can of course be visited any night until late - I like them both at night just as much as in the day time - well at least the Trevi, nicely lit up.

ekc

From what I have read, the Trevi is empty and under scaffolding for cleaning/repair, so not sure how the evening lighting is.

annhig

my first reaction was "good grief"! with 4 children? in July and August?

IMO you can have Sorrento and Pompeii, or the Dolomites, but not both. As you are starting in Venice, and it's going to be mid summer, I would go for the Dolomites. I would also cut out Florence - going there just to drag 4 children round the Uffizi seems a terrible waste of time and will probably put them off art for life. It's not as if there is a lack of art to see in Venice and Rome, after all.

I like ekc's itinerary, but I would cut out Florence:

Day 1: afternoon in Venice
Day 2: Venice
Day 3: Venice
Day 4: train to Dolomites
Day 5: Hike
Day 6: train to Rome, afternoon in Rome
Day 7: Rome
Day 8: Rome
Day 9: Day trip to Pompeii [or wherever]
Day 10:Rome
Day 11: morning in Rome, leave for airport at 2:00 pm


just having the one day trip from Rome [could be Florence or Pompeii, but I think that Ostia Antica would be better than both of those and you could go to the beach afterwards] means that you can have a day in Rome after the day trip to wind up your time there.

in case you doubt us, just think about your Day 6 - the Uffizi in the morning [even if you get the first slot at 8.45 am you won't get out of there until about noon] so the earliest train you could get to Naples would be at 1pm. the 13.04 Frecciarossa gets to Napoli at 15.55, so you might be on a circumvesuviana train to Sorrento by 4.30, and in Sorrento by 6pm. you then have one day in Sorrento [inevitably tiring as you want to explore], and then on Day 8, you want to come back again, via Pompeii which will be extremely hot and exhausting. [it was hot and tiring in February!]

there is plenty to see in Venice and Rome and you and your kids will appreciate the slower pace. Also, you could stay in apartments as you would be staying longer which should give you more room and be more economical. a case of less definitely being more.

sandralist

The Uffizi gallery is simply swamped with people who are much taller than most of your children, and even if your kids were tall enough to see the paintings, it seems to me not really a good use of your time. If there is one or 2 of you in the family who are such keen students of Italian religious art that you feel compelled to plunge into the steambath of Florence in summer to go to the Uffizi, have some mercy on the rest of the group and go by yourselves (or take turns if both parents simply cannot be in Italy without seeing some particular artwork in the Uffizi) and otherwise let the rest of the group find something more suited to their interests.

But I suggest you skip it.

If you want to see Pompei, stay in Pompei. It has plenty of hotels, many with swimming pools, and that is the best way to see Pompei first thing in the morning.

Personally, though, I wouldn't do this gallop through Italy with kids to young to care which mountain they are being made to hike or which ruin they are looking at.

I would do 3 nights Venice, rent a car and take the 2 hour drive to the Dolomiti (around Cortina d'Ampezzo) and stay for 4 nights, drop off the car back in Venice and fast train to Rome (4 hours) and skip broiling hot Pompei in favor of shady Ostia Antica or a day trip to Sperlonga so you can combine a hot day of looking at ruins with a swim. There are lots of painting and statues in Rome just like the ones in Florence, created by the same artists, especially if you are going to the Vatican museums (which I would also skip with kids that age and just take them through St Peter's. They'll get the point and actually be able to see the art, not just other people's behinds and armpits).

Jean

Is this the travel style/speed your family is accustomed to? Will any of you have trouble with the time change? High temps and humidity?

FYI, it may be in the far north of the country, but Bolzano can be hot/humid, and a day and a half is not much time for hiking. You could go to the Ice Man exhibit at the archeology museum in Bolzano on your arrival afternoon, but I would investigate the hiking options and the public transportation timetables you'd be relying on before committing to Bolzano as a destination for such a short stay.

I would skip Florence as a destination. There's an early, direct (no change) train from Bolzano to Rome that only takes 4:40 hours. Breakfast in Bolzano; lunch in Rome. Then, I would stay in Rome and make day trips to Florence and/or Pompeii if you can handle the heat. If you're early risers, you could reach Pompeii and/or Uffizi at or shortly after opening. (The Uffizi is closed on Mondays.)

ekc

I think swapping out Pompeii in favor of Ostia is a great idea (sorry I didn't think of it!)

Ostia has some shade, which Pompeii has none of, and very interesting ruins. There are also great beaches where you can have a lovely lunch and play in the sea.

adventures6

Ok. Here is another go at this.

Day 1: arrive 11am Venice; sleep Venice
Day 2: Explore Venice; sleep Venice
Day 3: Venice till midday; train to Trento train station to rent a car drive to Dolomite area, sleep Castelrotto
Day 4: Hike Dolomites, sleep Castelrotto
Day 5: Hike Dolomites, sleep Castelrotto
Day 6: Drive to Trento Station to return car; train to Siena;sleep Siena
Day 7: spend morning in Siena; train to Rome; sleep in Rome
Day 8: Vatican City,Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain; sleep Rome
Day 9: Day trip to Pompei; sleep in Rome
Day 10: Colosseum, Roman Forum, Pantheon ; sleep Rome
Day 11: Leave Rome @6:10pm

So, I still have a lot to learn but this is what I am thinking. I thought about stopping in Siena to break up the long train ride from Trento to Rome and also to see a medieval town. Any thoughts? I'm still working on figuring out the train routes and schedules.

Mary

ellenem

Because of the number of connections required, it will take you an hour or two LONGER to travel from Trento to Siena than it would to travel from Trento to Rome.

Sassafrass

Siena is beautiful, but not so easy by train as you might think. Check times and costs carefully.

Consider Orvieto instead for an overnight. You might even keep the car and return it there, spend the night and take the train into Rome. Look at some images of Orvieto. It is also a beautiful hill top town and you might find it is perfect for your needs.

As to Pompeii. Make your plan, but think about something different if it is too miserably hot to enjoy it. Consider Ostia Antica instead, or even a day at an Italian beach town only a short bus ride from Rome. Have all the info at hand and decide once you are there.

Jean

On Day 3, make sure you leave Venice early enough to reach the Trento car rental office before it closes.

I don't see Day 6 being all that much fun just to have dinner and a half day in Siena. Check the driving time and the train time. It will be more or less an all-day journey.

FYI, it makes more sense to take the bus from Siena to Rome. Faster and cheaper.

If you're leaving in less than 2 weeks, have you also been researching lodging availability everywhere? Or do you have a fairly high budget limit?

adventures6

I really do appreciate all your advice. I have been in mad scramble to get an itinerary and accomodations. The apartment I already paid a deposit for in Rome only has availability for 3 nights, so I'd have to change apartments anyway. I will check Orvieto. Do I need the car to get there? Will there be drop off fees for not returning at Trento? I really do appreciate all your insights and for calling things to my attention. I might add how terribly sleep deprieved I am - the guidebook I ordered should be here tomorrow.

sandralist

Why take the train all the way to Trento to rent a car? You can pick up a car in Venice and be in the Dolomiti in 2 hours. Castelrotto is not the greatest base for hiking in the Dolomiti anyway. But even if you want to stay there, you can drive across the Great Dolomites road to Castelrotto from Cortina d'Ampezzo in less than 2 hours. It is one of the most famous drives in the world. If you take the train to Trento from Venice to rent the car, not only will you spending a lot of time doing it and struggling with luggage, and possibly the rental office will not be open when you arrive, but the train tickets for 6 people are not going to be cheap at this late stage.

Wherever you stay in the Dolomiti, if you don't want to go back to Venice to take the train, then return the car in Bolzano, not Trento.

As others are pointing out, if you are giving up the car after the Dolomiti, then Siena is extremely poorly positioned as a Tuscan stop in between the Dolomiti and Rome. You will have to switch trains or get on a bus to Siena, and when you are through with Siena, you will either need to go back to Florence to get a train to Rome or get on a long bus ride to Rome.

You do not need a car to get to Orvieto, but it is so close to Rome there is little point in stopping to spend a night there. If you want to overnight on the way to Rome from Trento, then Florence or Bologna are your best options. Were it me, I might thrill the kids with a a trip to Gardaland (the Italian amusement park) on Lago di Garda. I would drive to the lakeside and spend the night somewhere between Bardolino and Peschiera del Garda and visit the park in the afternoon and evening. Next morning I would give up the car in Verona the next day and take the train to Rome from there.

If you prefer to skip the expense and cheap entertainment of the amusement park, then drop off the car in Bolzano or Venice go to Florence or Bologna for the overnight. I would pick Florence but I would skip the Uffizi.

adventures6

Should I head straight to Sorrento and skip Florence. My husband really wants to visit Pompeii.

So, I'd get the car in Venice and drop it in Bolzano. Train to Sorrento. I'd have a free day there and a Pompeii day. At the end of Pompeii we would train and sleep in Rome.

adventures6

Or...
Day 6: train to Orvieto; sleep in Orvieto;
Day 7: Explore Orvieto; sleep in Orvieto
Day 8: train to Pompeii; Explore Pompeii; train to Rome; sleep in Rome
Day 9: Vatican City,Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain; sleep Rome
Day 10: Colosseum, Roman Forum, Pantheon ; sleep Rome
Day 11: See what we were too tired to see the previous days; get to the Aiport by 4:10

Debs

You do realize the day trip from Rome to Pompeii will be a very long day ... about a 2.5 hr train from Rome to Naples, then connect to the Circumvensuviana (just go downstairs once at the Naples train station, where you can also purchase your tickets). Get off at Pompeii Scavi, turn right and follow the crowds to the entrance. There are plenty of vendors selling water. Pompeii will be hot and offers little shade, so you might want to get some water. There is a place inside the site to get lunch/souvenirs. There's also a very nice souvenir/book shop at the entrance.

Have you considered Ostia Antica? Much closer to Rome and very easy to get to. Much less walking and there are plenty of places to stop for a quick break. There's also an on-site restaurant to grab lunch.

On those 'missed' sights, head to Plaza Navona. 3 beautiful fountains, plenty of places to eat (can be expensive), and one of the best people watching spots in Rome!

I really woulnd't count on seeing much on Day 11 (departure day), unless it's something very close to where you're staying.

annhig

lol, Debs - for Ostia antica see up thread. But the OP's DH wants to see Pompeii [though she might try reminding him that until a couple of weeks ago, they were headed to Jerusalem!]

Adventures - there really is no need to go to Trento to pick up your car. Just get it from the Piazzale Roma where all of the big car hire firms have their desks and pick-up points. There will be no or very little penalty for returning it elsewhere. [so long as it's still in Italy].

Where to return it to however, is another problem. If you don't want to change accommodation in Rome, you could just spend another night in Venice [gives you another day to recover from jetlag] or in the mountains. Then you could just catch the very early [6am ish] train straight to Rome from Bolzano. However apart from the last one which is effectively an overnight train, all the other trains to Rome, [or anywhere else that you might like to go] all have connections in Bologna. so to get to Florence, or Orvieto or Siena, you would have at least one change.

The other problem is that you can't just get a train to Pompeii without changing at Naples onto the completely separate "circumvesuviana" line. for example, if you left Orvieto at 11.23, you would get to Naples at 14.15 with a change of trains at Roma termini. Then you have to get the circumvesuviana train to Pompeii - about an hour from Naples. and then you have still to tour Pompeii before returning to Rome - ie, it can't be done.

you can get a direct train from Florence to Naples but even then with children the age of yours, it would still be a very long day. IMO the only way you are going to do Pompeii is by a day trip from Rome with your current itinerary.

there is a completely different itinerary which would get you to Pompeii but it involves one 2 night stay in Florence and one one night stand in Pompeii, and you lose the Dolomites:

Day 1: arrive 11am Venice; sleep Venice
Day 2: Venice
Day 3: Venice
Day 4: Train to Florence.
Day 5: Florence
Day 6: 9 am train to Naples, change to circumvesuviana, train to Pompeii. [leaving Florence at 9am, you would be in Naples by noon and at Pompeii by 2pm. Tour Pompeii; sleep pompeii.
Day 7: poss return trip to Pompeii site, train to Rome via Naples; sleep in Rome
Day 8: Rome
Day 9: Rome
Day 10: Rome
Day 11: Leave Rome @6:10pm

This gives you 3 whole days in Rome and most of the last day; you would need to be at the airport by mid afternoon which still leaves time for doing something decent in the morning and a nice long lunch.