sroyalrakes

I am planning a trip to Italy for two weeks in October including a day each way for travel. I am trying to get the most time vacationing and less time traveling (2 transfers at most) since it will be our first time traveling internationally with our son. It is our first time in Italy but we have been to other places in Europe. Rome is a must for my husband and visiting a winery or two is a must for me. I am a fan of Barbera and just discovered this is in the Piedmont region and not Tuscany so now I am torn on which area to visit. I would alo like to see the coast if possible. Venice is on the list as well but I'm not sure how it fits due to distance from Rome.

My husband and I are most interested in seeng your typicsl sites like Colliseum, Vatican City, enjoying good food and wine, and experiencing the Italian way of life. I would really appreciate proposed itineraries and must sees as I am becoming increasingly frustrated with planning.

Thanks!

tower

Question that will be met with a firestorm:

Do you have anyone to safely leave the child with back home? Seriously, only thinking of you and your husband fully enjoying the 2 weeks.

Father of three and grandfather of six (all adults now)

Jean

I agree with tower. If your baby doesn't tolerate the time difference and new surroundings/bed/etc. very well, the first few days (or more) could be un-fun for everyone. With a baby, you would probably be more comfortable staying in apartments which often have a minimum number of nights requirements.

Even if this trip were adults only, I wouldn't attempt more than Rome, Venice and a few days in the countryside in between. Fly into either Rome or Venice and fly home from the other. Rent a car for the in between but pick a fairly small area to explore.

IMO, there is great wine to be found in many areas, so I wouldn't trek to the Piemonte on this trip. If you want to tour/visit wineries, you need to make reservations. If you drink, don't drive. Italy's laws and penalties are tougher than many/most other countries, including the U.S. if that's where you're from. You'll need to get International Driver Permits.

lauren_s_kahn

Another "I'm taking my baby" to Europe thread to stir up the troops.

sandralist

I suggest that you combine Rome with Umbria, in particular the area of Montefalco, for its Sagrantino red wine.

Arrive in Rome, settle into an apartment and relax as well as sightsee, then when you are ready, take a train to Orvieto and pick up a car and head to the Umbrian wine country. There are wineries and farms where you can rent an apartment, and many have restaurants on site which is a great asset if you have a baby with you.

http://goitaly.about.com/od/umbria/q...-wine-road.htm

Ackislander

I am one of those who thinks you are nuts to do this, but if you are going to do it, October will be better than summer, especially if you rent an air conditioned apartment in Rome and find an air conditioned hotel wherever else you wind up.

Why I think you are nuts:

cranky infant on plane, and I think you have to buy her/him a seat at one year
jetlagged baby for first three or four days
late dining hours in Italy will make it difficult to enjoy better restaurants
trying to see the sights when the infant needs a nap
dealing with a car seat

On the other hand,

Italians love bambini
Infants' clothing and shoes in Italy ( and France) are so spectacularly beautiful and beautifully made that you could spend the cost of the plane fare buying outfits.

eastave

We travel a lot with our kid. You just need to be aware that the way you used to travel might change. We slowed down a lot. We try to stay in one spot for as long as possible, even though she is now 8.

Unless things have changed you don't have to buy an airline seat until the kid is two, but you may want to buy a seat anyway. It is nice to have extra space. Not all kids are awful on planes. Our daughter was always fine, but very active. It was tiring for us!

The jetlag issue was probably the worst. It took several days to adjust. The problem is that when I am awake in the middle of the night, I just lie there quietly and try to sleep. A baby doesn't do this.

In our experience, we were able to eat at nice places if we went right when they opened. But, I would be wary of expecting to be able to eat at upscale places as it really depends on the nature of your kid.

I would recommend just renting a car seat with a car. Hauling one along is a pain, especially in cities like Rome where you won't need it. We once tried to use it on the plane and it was a disaster. The angle was different than the car and she wouldn't sleep in it. She ended up on top of me with her entire seat wasted with the car seat.

I would recommend only two places for your trip. Get an apartment in Rome so you have space and kitchen facilities. I would also go to the countryside for a week in an agriturismo.

vincenzo32951

Keep it simple. One reason people get frustrated is because they try to pack too much into the trip. And then research and planning become a nightmare.

Forget the coast and stick with three places, using rentals in each. (You can do this in reverse, too.):

Fly into Venice, 3-4 days.
Tuscany, 3-4 days
Rome, 3-4 days. Fly out of Rome.

One of the things you'll have to figure out is transportation in Tuscany. Are you going to rent a car? If so, maybe you'll pick it up when you depart one city (Rome or Venice)and drop it off when you arrive at another (Rome or Venice), depending on the direction of your itinerary.

bvlenci

In my experience, babies of this age are easier to travel with than toddlers are. Many of them don't get jet lag at all (although I've known a few babies who did.) They do tend to get cranky if they're constantly being moved from one place to another.

I like Sandralist's idea, or something similar. I would stick to Rome and one wine region, to satisfy both you and your husband. Leave Venice for another time.

sroyalrakes

Hi Everyone!

Thank you for your responses. I do have trusted family at home in US to leave my son with but I don't want to take two weeks off of work and not spend it with him so leaving him home is not an option. Plus I have been told Italy is one of the most kid friendly countries in Europe.

At one he is free to fly so we are going to do it, I am thinking that Rome will be our base and where we should spend at least 4-5 days. It sounds like most agree to leave Venice out. I am looking into apartments but we also have hotel points so I want to use those up.

sandralist, thanks for the suggestion I am going to look up that area tonight and see what my husband thinks.

eastave thanks for the information and suggestion I will look it up tonight as well.

If anyone has suggestions for other areas to combine with Rome that would be great.

It also sounds like renting a car would be necessary in wine country so I will add that to the list

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

nytraveler

Since when is a one year old not a toddler? Many of them are racing around in all directions at 11 or 12 months - and certainly not much later. And you need to be sure that any hotel rooms or apartments are baby-proofed unless you will watch the baby every instant.

I agree that apts are a good idea so the baby can sleep in the BR while you can have a relaxing dinner in the LR. Also good for baby meals at different hours and breakfast for all.

As noted, most restaurants don't open for dinner until 7 pm (most people will show up at 8 pm or later) and the expectation is that it will be a 2 hour meal - not great for an infant. So you will need to find places that are kid friendly and have a high chair (call in advance to ask).

As for renting a car, you should rent in as large an office as possible in order to be sure you get a baby seat. And if staying at the agriturismo I would try to find someone to mind baby for a day or two so you can go wine-tasting - not sure how welcome a baby will be at those events. And do make sure it is tasting - not drinking - or only one of you drinks and the other drives - laws are much more stringent than in the US and fines very high.

bvlenci

I consider a toddler to be about age 18 months and up, and I think most people would agree with that.

One of the best uses of a stroller in Italy is as a place where the baby can sleep or relax while you eat dinner at a restaurant. An apartment is convenient when you're traveling with a baby, but I've also stayed in hotels with babies that age, without problems.

I would be much more worried about child safety hazards in an apartment than in a hotel. Very few apartments have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, or fire escapes. I once stayed in an apartment in Rome with my daughter and granddaughter that was full of safety hazards. At the time my granddaughter was about 3, and the worst hazard was a large window in the living room, with no bars or other child restraint, with a sill that was low enough for a small child to climb up on. The place had no air conditioning, and it was too warm to leave the window shut. Three floors below, there was a concrete courtyard. There was also an electrical outlet that was sort of dangling out of the outlet. Fortunately, we were there only for a few nights, but I wasn't at ease the whole time we were there.

annhig

more years ago than I care to remember, we took our then 1 year old DD to north America and toured round, staying in numerous places in our 2 1/2 weeks.

Were we mad? were we exhausted? yes to both of those, but we had a great time and so did she!

but with the benefit of 25 year's experience of travelling with her and her younger brother, I agree that staying longer in fewer places is likely to be more satisfactory for all of you.

I like sandralist's idea of a week or so in Rome followed by a stay in an agriturismo or similar. bvl's experience should give you a few things to look out for when considering apartments. [or indeed any accommodation]

nytraveler

Well, the definition of toddler is a child that is just learning to walk - since they "toddle" rather than walk the way an older child does. The American Academy of Pediatrics classifies children past their first birthday as "toddlers". Which makes sense since most kids are starting to walk then, although it can be as early as 8 months and as late as 16 months.

A colleague of mine had a baby that was very late to walk - more than 14 months, compared to the babies of others in the office. I think the problem was that he was overweight - and it's just hard for a baby to have the strength to raise and haul around several extra pounds. (Her MD told her he was above the usual weight curve and she was HAPPY - that he was such a big boy - but IMHO he was slow to do everything and never seemed very alert. I think she was just feeding him too much - always pushing something at him.)

sandralist

These alarmist reports about Europe at every turn are getting to be faintly ridiculous. When was the last time anybody read about a tourist dying in Italy unless they were intoxicated? People take their small children to Europe -- and yes, Italy -- all the time and stay in apartments without worrying about fire escapes, smoke detectors, fire extinguishers. If they arrive at an apartment and discover a safety hazard, they find a way to remove the hazard (just like bvlienci did, no doubt).

But I will give bvlienci credit for at least being concerned about the baby. Everybody else seems concerned (if they are even staying on topic) that the parents will have their travel time spoiled by being with their child! A lot of people like traveling with their kids, They don't want to put them someplace for 2 weeks. They would miss them and worry.

Babies are the toughest humans around. Pay attention the next time there is a natural disaster somewhere, and note who survives. Its the over-60s who don't make it. The babies are still hanging in there. These alarmist posts about danger at every turn from broken steps, tornadoes, frozen fish and lack of fire extinguishers should be delivered to grandparents who would be much safer staying at home.

sroyalrakes

Thank you everyone!

lauren_s_kahn

Please note that the name who started this thread has never posted on fodors before. One of these threads ends and someone begins an almost identical one anew. Do you think, maybe, that your leg is being pulled?

I do.

vincenzo32951

If so, that's one very strange sense of humor.

sroyalrakes

lauren_s_kahn I am not sure what your point is. No I have never posted to Fodors before and figured I would come here for help planning a trip but it seems that you chose to post rude and uninformative comments. If you have nothing helpful to say feel free to move on.

This was indeed a real post for help. It is sad some people did not take it seriously, but as I stated before thank you to those who did.

annhig

sroyalrakes,

please take no notice of lauren - you are very welcome here and I hope that you have received some advice and help that you will have found useful. of course anyone is free to post what they like, and sometimes, what people post would have been better left in their heads.