CatchK

Hi everyone,

Some background:
A few weeks ago I posted asking for suggestions and some of you were incredibly helpful.
At the point I was lookig for places to go and had no idea or focus of what I wanted. I got some amazing ideas and also some advice to find sights and activities and work my itinerary around that.

Quick summary: Me (28) and my great-aunt (71) going to Italy late July into August 2014. The only requirement is Brescia and Garda (to see family). The rest is open. We have varied interests, and she has seen many parts of Italy and I have only seen Venice, Brescia/Garda, Positano, and Rome. We are both very open to new experiences and want to see new things. IF it fits into the itinerary that we choose, we would like to use timeshare points somewhere.

My new question: Using the ideas and itineraries given to me, we kind of came up with this. I will include the reasons why...

Land in Venice
1 or 2 nights in Venice (only saw quickly, Aunt would like to see)
3 nights in Garda (my family's origin and visit family here)
3 nights in Brescia (more family, including my step-great-grandmother)

then it gets tricky:

3 nights in Camogli (seems like a great base and a quieter town)
1 night in Monaco (sounds weird I know but we both want this...)
3 nights in Menton or Nice (suggestions? We want to compare the rivieras)
3 nights in Alba (Love wine)
2 nights in Zermatt (I have a dream of paragliding here)
2 nights in Lucerne (just looks amazing)
fly out of Zurich.

Problem is, we would like to keep it to three weeks. I feel like this is too much, and too much moving. But i can't even begin to decide what to cut out! I am in the exact opposite position that I was in a few weeks ago....Help!

Jean

"I feel like this is too much, and too much moving." I agree. Especially in late July to mid-August.

I would cut France and Monaco from this itinerary. It will take about 5 hours by train from Camogli to Monte Carlo and then another 5 hours from Nice/Menton to Alba. How you allocate those nights elsewhere is up to you, but I'd definitely give at least one of the nights to Venice and probably one night to Lucerne.

dreamon

I don't think your itinerary is desperately rushed but if you want to travel at a more relaxed pace and assuming Italy is a must, then the obvious thing to do is drop either France or Switzerland. If it were my holiday, I'd choose Switzerland but that's such a personal thing and both are great. I also wouldn't move hotels from Menton/Nice to visit Monaco but would do that as a day trip from either.

neckervd

Camogli is a nice small town close to Genova. It can be visited in a few minutes. There are old and new, quiet and noisy quarters. Camogli can be used as a base for hikes around the Portofino peninsula. Excursion boat to San Fruttuoso Monastery. For all other excursions, 5Terre, Genoa city trip, etc. you have to use the (very frequent)trains.

Monte Carlo, Nice, Menton: although a town and not a idyllic small village, Menton is by far the most charming place. Frequent shuttle trains zo Nice - Cannes - St. Raphael.

The train ride from Camogli to Menton takes about 4hrs, all along the Mediterranean Sea, but with some tunnels; change at Ventimiglia.

The 4 hrs train ride from Menton via Val Bevera - Val Roia - Tenda - Limone - Cuneo to Alba is extremely scenic.

Alba - Zermatt: 3 itineraries (always about 8 hrs)
most secnic one:
Alba dp 7.08 and 12.08 - Turin - Aosta - Gd St-Bernard Tunnel - Martigny - Visp - Zermatt ar 15.13 and 20.13
fastest one:
Alba dp 8.08 and then about every 2 hrs via Turin - Milan - Lake Maggiore
medium (and cheapest) one:
Alba dp 9.08, 10.08, 12.08, 13.08, 14.08 via Turin - Novara - Lake Orta

BTW: patragliding is possible about everywhere in the Italian and Swiss Alps, not only at Zermatt.

CatchK

Ok - that is what I was thinking, dropping one of the two. Is the french riviera very much like the Italian side or is it incredibly different?

And neckervd - thank you for all of that! That is very helpful. I like that you point out how scenic the rides are - that was part of my thought process that it wouldn't necessarily be "wasting" time travelling, just adding in some more scenery!

Also - I know that you can paraglide anywhere, just one of those silly little things that I get into my head (last year it was Positano and I don't regret that at all) that I just have to see and if I don't I will wonder about it forever!

Thank you for all of the help!

neckervd

Menton is French since only about 150 years. But in this short time, it got really French. Yes, there is a difference in architecure, food, way of life and language. The Alps reach the Mediterranean just around Menton. So the mountains are much higher and steeper than around Camogli. As to the cold winds coming from the North (not an issue in August, of course), Menton is the best protected place along the whole Riviera.

Switzerland is more expensive than Italy. Therefore I asked if you want to enter Switzerland for paragliding only or if you really want to see Zermatt and Lucerne.

Otherwise you might fly back from Nice or Milan Malpensa and enjoy your mountain experience somewhere in the North West of Lake Garda.

michelhuebeli

If you go to Zermatt, make sure you go up on the Gornergrat - look it up!

Sassafrass

No matter how active and healthy, at some point age may slow us down a bit, and you never quite know when that will hit. So, right at the beginning of the trip, consider a bit more time for your Aunt to get over jet lag, etc. Three nights in Venice would be good.

CatchK

I gotcha Neckervd - no, I have this idea stuck in my head (irrationally really) of going to Switzerland and I know it won't be satisfied until I do it. Also, Menton sounds really cool...

Michel - the Gornergrat looks awesome! One more reason to keep the Switzerland plan...

Sassafrass - I am completely aware of that. The funny thing about my aunt is that 1 - she is the type of person who can sleep anywhere and will sleep the entire plane ride. 2 - she is nuts, in that good way, and 3 - we have an understanding. She wants me to plan the trip, and if she doesn't want to do anything (because she is tired or it absolutely terrifies her (paragliding)) she has informed me that she is a big girl and can stay by herself and sleep haha. She is very much like me and is only happy when she is running around (not that I want this trip to be ALL that!) She has also been to Venice and has only a little interest in seeing it again.

I have a feeling that I can predict this answer - BUT - is skipping Florence an option that ANYONE would recommend?

I love history, but I really get bored quickly with art (terrible I know, I just can't seem to really appreciate it like others can...) So it is not that I don't want to see Florence, I just wonder if I will wish I took more time at the other spots.

dreamon

Where did Florence come from? If Florence is now on the agenda, certainly whether you would choose it over more rural areas depends on your preferences. If you're not an art lover then I wouldn't give it a high priority (although it's not all about art by any means).

neckervd

Your train tickets for Switzerland (highly recommended trip to Gornergrat incuded) will cost you about 280 CHF (from Domodossola) resp 310 CHF (from Aosta), more with some excursions around Lucerne.
It might therefore be a good idea to check Swiss Pass, Swiss Flexipass, Swiss Half Fare Card, etc.
Aosta - Martigny: validated Swiss Pass valid, Swiss Half Fare Card NOT valid
http://www.myswitzerland.com/en/home.html
http://www.swisstravelsystem.ch/en/
http://fahrplan.sbb.ch/bin/query.exe/en

Alba - Swiss border fares for the most commonly used trains:
Alba - Aosta: 13 EUR
Alba - Milan - Domodossola: 56 EUR
Alba - Lake Orta - Domodossola: 16 EUR

neckervd

BTW: 1 USD corresponds to 0,90 CHF resp 0,75 EUR

CatchK

I can't believe I forgot to include Florence...I think it was subconscious already ignoring it. Yes, Florence was supposed to be stuck in there after Brescia. But I am seriously considering dropping it, as well as Monaco.

Neckervd-that information is incredibly valuable, especially since I sometimes find those train tables to be confusing--thank you!!