Italy for 3 in 12 days
Mar 8th, 2014, 04:17 AM
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Italy for 3 in 12 days
We (new husband, 26 yo son and me) are planning a trip to Italy - October 2014. We have not made any plans yet, we will have 10-12 days on the ground. Places we definitely want to see - Lake Como, Venice, Rome. Other thoughts - Naples, Cinque de Terre, somewhere in Tuscany. Any suggestions for other must-sees? My purpose - to have a trip of a lifetime with my son; Son's purpose - (#1 - Lake Como!) good food and wine, stopping for an afternoon coffee, Coliseum and seeing what we can; husband's purpose - Vatican and laughing at my son and myself. We are very flexible - planning on 10 days on ground and could stretch to 11 or 12. After one or two museums or churches we have had enough; we enjoy meeting local people. Any ideas for itineraries? I would prefer trains and other transportation to renting a car. Thank you so much -for help with our once in a lifetime trip.
Mar 8th, 2014, 04:29 AM
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You should plan flying into Milan, as Lake Como is a short train ride north.
From there, you can go back through Milan to get to Cinque Terre (Monterosso al Mare).
Then you could take a local train a short distance to La Spezia and straight down to Roma.
Had you had another few days, I'd tell you to take the train over to Florence prior to going to Rome.
Italy can sometimes be a little overwhelming as it's just so full of great food, architecture, history and memorable characters.
From there, you can go back through Milan to get to Cinque Terre (Monterosso al Mare).
Then you could take a local train a short distance to La Spezia and straight down to Roma.
Had you had another few days, I'd tell you to take the train over to Florence prior to going to Rome.
Italy can sometimes be a little overwhelming as it's just so full of great food, architecture, history and memorable characters.
Mar 8th, 2014, 05:05 AM
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You mentioned Venice. That is high on most anyone's list.
Fly into Venice, 3 nights - 2 days
Train to Como, 3 nights (or Lake Garda for 2/3 nights)
Train to Rome, 4 nights - 3 days.
Fly home
Tell your son to consider Lake Garda rather than Como, closer to Venice, equally beautiful, logistically pairs much better with Venice and Rome. Pull up some pictures and I bet he will agree.
With Lake Como, you would lose a lot more time getting to Venice - not as good use of time on the ground if Venice is included and it sounds as if it should be for you.
If you can add another day or two, then include Florence.
Buy multi-city ticktets, into one city, home from another. It should cost very little more and save time backtracking.
While there, use point to point train tickets, no need for a rail pass in Italy.
Get a good map of Italy and a guide book with some city maps to make your planning easier and to enjoy it more.
Fly into Venice, 3 nights - 2 days
Train to Como, 3 nights (or Lake Garda for 2/3 nights)
Train to Rome, 4 nights - 3 days.
Fly home
Tell your son to consider Lake Garda rather than Como, closer to Venice, equally beautiful, logistically pairs much better with Venice and Rome. Pull up some pictures and I bet he will agree.
With Lake Como, you would lose a lot more time getting to Venice - not as good use of time on the ground if Venice is included and it sounds as if it should be for you.
If you can add another day or two, then include Florence.
Buy multi-city ticktets, into one city, home from another. It should cost very little more and save time backtracking.
While there, use point to point train tickets, no need for a rail pass in Italy.
Get a good map of Italy and a guide book with some city maps to make your planning easier and to enjoy it more.
Mar 8th, 2014, 05:05 AM
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On our Italian trip of a lifetime w/son, the hands-down highlight was the Amalfi Coast (plus Capri). We used Sorrento as base, but that's because we were chicken about having a car, so we took train to Sorrento and used local transport from there (ferries, taxi, bus, etc.) Easy train ride from Rome to Naples, easy switch to local Circumvesuvia to Sorrento. Pompeii is on that same line, so there was a memorable day trip there from Sorrento.
Mar 8th, 2014, 05:26 AM
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With 10 days on the group - or even 10 or 11 3 (THREE)places is the most you should try to visit. Going to more places than that will result in spending more time in getting places than actually seeing or doing things. (This is the standard mistake of first time travelers to europe - so many come here and say that they went too many places and by the time they got home it was all a blur.
In terms of being efficient you must get open jaws tickets - into the first city and home from the last to avoid wasting one of your very few days returning to the first city.
Now, as for time of year - in early Oct Lake Como can still be pleasant (it is in the foothills of the mountains) but by late Oct things often start to close for the season.
So you need to land in Milan and head straight for Como - and after that pick 2 more places to travel to by train. I would do Venice and Rome - which are both unique and have a ton of things to see and do. (Florence is lovely and I would never miss it - but you just don;t have the time to include it. The CT are 5 tiny villages cut into a cliff above the sea with a series of hikes between them. They may or may not be open based on weather/amount of rain - but that is really all there is to do - and it seems a waste to do this in europe).
Not sure what you mean by "meeting local people". Naturally you will encounter pleasant local people in hotels, restaurants and shops - but in 2 or 3 days in an area you are not going to make new friends of locals unless you take part in very specific activities aimed at that (cooking classes or other activities with locals versus other tourists for instance, but do you speak Italian)?
(I must admit I never understand people who say the want to "meet local people". Of course you will meet local people in shops and the tourist industry - but these are professional encounters. For personal relationships you need to stay in one place for some time and meet neighbors or people in the local markets, shops and bars/restaurants for multiple days over a period of time. Although Italians are friendly overall, they do not make friends with random tourists in town for a day or two - and in bars/cafes there are not general converations /activities among every one in the place; people stay with their own group. If you would rent an apartment and stay 4 or 5 weeks you would start to meet local people and begin to develop a cordial relationship - but it won't happen in two days.
I would get a couple of good guidebooks and pick out what YOU really want to do/see and that can realistically done in the 2/3 days you will have in each place.
I really think you need to outline your trip day including what trains you will take and what you ant to see (being sure that not everything is not open every day).
In terms of being efficient you must get open jaws tickets - into the first city and home from the last to avoid wasting one of your very few days returning to the first city.
Now, as for time of year - in early Oct Lake Como can still be pleasant (it is in the foothills of the mountains) but by late Oct things often start to close for the season.
So you need to land in Milan and head straight for Como - and after that pick 2 more places to travel to by train. I would do Venice and Rome - which are both unique and have a ton of things to see and do. (Florence is lovely and I would never miss it - but you just don;t have the time to include it. The CT are 5 tiny villages cut into a cliff above the sea with a series of hikes between them. They may or may not be open based on weather/amount of rain - but that is really all there is to do - and it seems a waste to do this in europe).
Not sure what you mean by "meeting local people". Naturally you will encounter pleasant local people in hotels, restaurants and shops - but in 2 or 3 days in an area you are not going to make new friends of locals unless you take part in very specific activities aimed at that (cooking classes or other activities with locals versus other tourists for instance, but do you speak Italian)?
(I must admit I never understand people who say the want to "meet local people". Of course you will meet local people in shops and the tourist industry - but these are professional encounters. For personal relationships you need to stay in one place for some time and meet neighbors or people in the local markets, shops and bars/restaurants for multiple days over a period of time. Although Italians are friendly overall, they do not make friends with random tourists in town for a day or two - and in bars/cafes there are not general converations /activities among every one in the place; people stay with their own group. If you would rent an apartment and stay 4 or 5 weeks you would start to meet local people and begin to develop a cordial relationship - but it won't happen in two days.
I would get a couple of good guidebooks and pick out what YOU really want to do/see and that can realistically done in the 2/3 days you will have in each place.
I really think you need to outline your trip day including what trains you will take and what you ant to see (being sure that not everything is not open every day).
Mar 8th, 2014, 06:02 AM
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nytraveler makes good points about the weather - maybe land in Venice, go to Como (btw, might not actually stay in Como, prefer Bellagio or possibly Varenna, which is on train from Milan) and head south from there?
Mar 8th, 2014, 07:05 AM
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I haven't been to Lake Como, but have spent about 4 days in Lago di Garda, and I second Sassafrass's suggestion to substitute it. And since this is the focus for your son, you all might enjoy Gardone Riviera, and the incredible estate created by the eccentric Italian poet D'Annunzio. (Complete with a ship, dismantled and brought to the space, and built into the mountainside. There are roman ruins in Desenzano, and some nice towns to visit, too.
I agree, with only 12 days on the ground, limit your visit to 3 places.
I agree, with only 12 days on the ground, limit your visit to 3 places.
Mar 8th, 2014, 07:15 AM
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If your dates are flexible, you should go as early in October as possible and go directly to Lago di Como if it is #1 for your son and if making your son happy is #1 for you. Staying there a couple of days would make sense to get over jet lag and help guarantee that even if you catch some rain you also catch dry weather.
If Rome is on the must list, then plan to fly out of there and not go any further south than Rome. You will need at least 2 full days in Rome to appreciate the Vatican and the Colosseo, and obviously there is always something to do and see and eat and drink in Rome. (Coffee can be wonderful in Rome.)
Northern Italy and Rome are well connected by fast train if you don't want to rent a car. Best wine towns along the north-south train route if you are starting in Lago di Como are Verona and Arezzo for reds, and Orvieto for white. If you want to be with the more of the locals than the tourists (I understand you perfectly), best towns for that are Bologna and Arezzo. Good food depends on what you like to eat, but in October, Arezzo in Tuscany can be an all around treat if you like autumn fare (pumpkins, mushrooms, chestnuts, soup, cheeses and red wine. Arezzo is a beautiful Renaissance town with marvelous architecture, ambience and shopping, but not a lot of sightseeing pressure. If you feel like doing some important sightseeing, you can take a train to Florence for lunch and some gawking. You can also visit Cortona by train. You can arrange a winery tour. But it might make a nice breather before plunging into Rome.
If Rome is on the must list, then plan to fly out of there and not go any further south than Rome. You will need at least 2 full days in Rome to appreciate the Vatican and the Colosseo, and obviously there is always something to do and see and eat and drink in Rome. (Coffee can be wonderful in Rome.)
Northern Italy and Rome are well connected by fast train if you don't want to rent a car. Best wine towns along the north-south train route if you are starting in Lago di Como are Verona and Arezzo for reds, and Orvieto for white. If you want to be with the more of the locals than the tourists (I understand you perfectly), best towns for that are Bologna and Arezzo. Good food depends on what you like to eat, but in October, Arezzo in Tuscany can be an all around treat if you like autumn fare (pumpkins, mushrooms, chestnuts, soup, cheeses and red wine. Arezzo is a beautiful Renaissance town with marvelous architecture, ambience and shopping, but not a lot of sightseeing pressure. If you feel like doing some important sightseeing, you can take a train to Florence for lunch and some gawking. You can also visit Cortona by train. You can arrange a winery tour. But it might make a nice breather before plunging into Rome.
Mar 8th, 2014, 07:24 AM
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I have been to both Lago di Como and Lago di Garda and Lago di Como is the far more beautiful lake as far as I am concerned, both in terms of the towns and villas on the shore of the lake and the hiking opportunities. Furthermore, the food and local culture is far less impacted by German tourism. You will find far more restaurants and hotels using German than English as a second language, and the food on Lago di Garda has a lot more German influence. A lot of the lakeside of Lago di Garda is filled with modern condo development.
Last but not least, the best scenic beauty of Lago di Garda is at the far northern end of the extremely large lake, and if you don't have a car, then you are struck at the southern end of the lake using the trains. The majority of boats available in October to tour the lake can be extremely slow going covering the distance from north to south. Lago di Como is much more compact and extremely lovely, even in the mist or light rain.
If your son wants to see Lago di Como, it is a fine choice even if you want to include Venice in the itinerary. I would substitute Lago di Garda for efficiency. Throwing out the baby with the lake water.
Last but not least, the best scenic beauty of Lago di Garda is at the far northern end of the extremely large lake, and if you don't have a car, then you are struck at the southern end of the lake using the trains. The majority of boats available in October to tour the lake can be extremely slow going covering the distance from north to south. Lago di Como is much more compact and extremely lovely, even in the mist or light rain.
If your son wants to see Lago di Como, it is a fine choice even if you want to include Venice in the itinerary. I would substitute Lago di Garda for efficiency. Throwing out the baby with the lake water.
Mar 8th, 2014, 07:35 AM
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2 nights Lago di Como
3 nights Venice
2 nights Arezzo
3/4 nights Rome
You could stop in Florence for lunch and a lookaround on the way to Arezzo, or do it on the way to Rome. Stow your luggage in the train station.
But some mothers and sons wouldn't have any fun taking that trip. It would be too fast for them. Some of it depends on whether you are all comfortable chatting on the train together for some stretches in lieu of sightseeing, and if you mean it that you only want one church and one museum and then would prefer to do something else.
3 nights Venice
2 nights Arezzo
3/4 nights Rome
You could stop in Florence for lunch and a lookaround on the way to Arezzo, or do it on the way to Rome. Stow your luggage in the train station.
But some mothers and sons wouldn't have any fun taking that trip. It would be too fast for them. Some of it depends on whether you are all comfortable chatting on the train together for some stretches in lieu of sightseeing, and if you mean it that you only want one church and one museum and then would prefer to do something else.
Mar 8th, 2014, 01:37 PM
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I would say that even if you can stretch your trip to 11 or 12 nights in Italy, three destinations is more than enough. I would suggest three nights on Lake Como, three nights in Venice, and four nights in Rome. If you can get another night or two, add a night to one of those three places. Four nights is a minimum for Rome, and if you add another night or two, you'll be able to break away from the overly-beaten tourist path and experience the city a little bit as opposed to just "seeing" it.
Mar 8th, 2014, 03:05 PM
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We would be arriving Oct 17th. Thank you all very much - I am reading through and reviewing. Yes, I know I have to read guidebooks and get a good map. When I first started to search, I found this site. Hearing from people who have already been there is priceless. Again, thank you.
Mar 8th, 2014, 04:50 PM
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The key is whether your and your family's attitude is that you are going to Rome to see the Vatican and Colosseo (because that's where they are) or you are going to Rome to see Rome. I am sure you get the difference. If you are going to Rome to see Rome, or Venice to see Venice, of course you don't have enough time even if you add time. But not everybody is trying to make a major dent in a sightseeing and activities list.
However, a lot of people do think they'll be happy traipsing and cherrypicking one or 2 things on a wish list and then when they get there they are sorry they didn't realize how much they would want to see. But I wouldn't approach this formulaically. I'd approach it based on the individuals. I know lovely people who are pretty unhappy sightseeing for very long and enjoy moving around. (The other key is to pack light and if your son prefers to move rapidly work out a deal about helping you with luggage in the train stations).
I can go to Rome and see what I want to see most plus get off the beaten path and I don't need 4 days to do it. For other people, they need 4 days minimum. It's all in the mind and what kind of your trip your family wants to take. You won't be given a quiz after.
However, a lot of people do think they'll be happy traipsing and cherrypicking one or 2 things on a wish list and then when they get there they are sorry they didn't realize how much they would want to see. But I wouldn't approach this formulaically. I'd approach it based on the individuals. I know lovely people who are pretty unhappy sightseeing for very long and enjoy moving around. (The other key is to pack light and if your son prefers to move rapidly work out a deal about helping you with luggage in the train stations).
I can go to Rome and see what I want to see most plus get off the beaten path and I don't need 4 days to do it. For other people, they need 4 days minimum. It's all in the mind and what kind of your trip your family wants to take. You won't be given a quiz after.
