ITALO trains need help

Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 04:00 AM
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ITALO trains need help

This is not a query but a request.

There are two operators of high speed trains in Italy - Trenitalia with their Frecciarossa trains and NTV with their Italo trains.

Both provide an excellent service but Italo is suffering and this is in part due to hard ball tactics from Trenitalia which indirectly controls the network and the stations.

If Italo folds then it is more than likely that Trenitalia will be able to push up prices and visitors to Italy know that the high speed train fares in Italy are a fantastic bargain if booked in advance.

As competition will keep fares low for everyone please consider booking with Italo on your next trip. See - http://www.italotreno.it/EN/Pages/default.aspx

I am against using this site for any form of promotion but I feel this is an exception.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 05:36 AM
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What is your experience with Italo trains - you say service is excellent - please detail and is it better in that regard than Trenitalia?

Do the French Railways, SNCF, have a stake in Italo Trains - just curious - all for competition and support your quest however quixotic.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 05:48 AM
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SNCF does have a 20% stake in Italo's holding company.

But most of Italo's money comes from Italians, and there's little evidence SNCF intend much more than getting experience of competition, selling a bit of software and general consultancy and possibly getting a dividend stream.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 06:13 AM
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Italo

I have tried it from Milan to Rome.

The seats are nice - Poltona Frau leather.

The staff are friendly and you can feel that they are really trying.

Their locations in the main stations are not quite as good as Trenitalia's - see my posting which explains why.

The only thing that they do not offer which I really appreciate on the Frecciarossa is the quiet carriage which I really appreciate on long trips - Milan to Naples.

But on short trips - Milan to Bologna/Florence - they deserve everyone's custom
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 12:04 PM
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And trenitalia.com is a pain for many to use - ferriners that is with ferriner credit cards, etc. www.italotren.it is apparently much easier to use and you can also book Italo Train tickets thru RailEurope in the U.S. at about the same or even cheaper rates in my sample tries so no dealing with a foreign entity with your credit card, no foreign exchange charges, etc. Trenitalia tickets are usually more expensive when sold on RailEurope - that's why I think the SNCF having a 20% stake in Tren Italo may be why RailEurope favors them on pricing as RE is largely owned by the SNCF (and a minority by Swiss Federal Railways).

I'm all for Tren Italo to succeed as well - breaking the old state railway monopolies - monopolies inherently breed inefficiency IMO and Trenitalia is probably guilty of that in the past - heck at one time you would see an old-age pensioners type working cleaning the trains - coming thru every few mnutes it seemed - figured it was someone's relative on the pay roll getting something for basically doing nothing.

Same in France where I used to see a circle of cheminots - railway workers surrounding one bloke who was actually working - the others standing puffing on their Gauloises, etc. with their finger where the sun don't shine.\

Open up competition - like in Britain - though there IME privatization has resulted in a surfeit of advertising and special deals but not better trains, which seem much much more crowded on non long-distance lines than before.

Blame it of course on Maggie Thatcher - she sidelined the state-run railway British Rail forever - throwing the baby out with the bathwater and leaving no real competition on many lines - yeh you got a few dozen independent private rail franchises each often with their own lines and little competition.

There has be virtually no infrastructure upgrades - true upgrades for true high-speed trains (except the Chuunel connect line built only because of Eurostar trains needing it)- otherwise you have a crumbling infrastructure and overloaded tracks- anyway not a better system than before all in all and IME of both worse.

But bravo for Trenitalia's competition, Italo Tren, forced on Trenitalia by European Court decisions and yes if I have a choice I'd chose them IF the price were the same or cheaper.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 01:12 PM
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"Blame it of course on Maggie Thatcher." Who made not a single change to the railways - except that during her Prime Ministership, Britain introduced more intercity trains running over 100 mph than any other country in Europe.

But she DID preserve Britain from Eurosclerosis and America from a sclerotic president. Bush 1 would still be dithering today about whether to get Hussein out of Kuwait if Maggie hadn't given him the balls that running the CIA had knocked out of him.

As for "a crumbling infrastructure". You've clearly not been anywhere between Moreton in Marsh and Shenfield, Southampton and Birmingham, or Gatwick and Luton lately.

While we're on the subject though: precisely how much has that dunderhead President of yours spent on your country's infrastructure in his bumbling 6 going on 6,000 years of non-rule? Rather less - in total - than Britain's railways alone spend every year under sensible Conservatism.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 03:49 PM
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Setting aside the discussion of Britain's train system, I agree that Italo is good competition for Trenitalia and have read nothing but glowing reviews of its service.

Thank you for pointing out that RailEurope works well for those of us in the US booking on Italo trains.

I will certainly be recommending Italo on this and other travel boards!
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Old Sep 2nd, 2014, 03:53 PM
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Yeh I think Maggie Thatcher should be a saint for all she has done for rich folks living in gated estates like flanneruk - for the poor rabble - most of the country - she is not so popular I believe.
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Old Sep 4th, 2014, 09:06 AM
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I'm not surprised that Italo is having trouble. They operate on the most heavily frequented routes, but they don't have trains on the feeder lines that connect in those large stations. They've recently expanded into some peripheral lines, such as the Adriatic line, but it may be too late.

Contrary to what Palenq says, they've had lots of problems with their web site, and apparently routinely refuse credit cards from some countries. I've seen, for example, lots of complaints from Canadians on TripAdvisor.

I would have liked them to succeed, especially since they were planning to also operate regional trains, an area that really needs improvement.
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Old Sep 4th, 2014, 09:41 AM
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you need not go thru their web site but if in North America Rail Europe offers the same fares with a minor $7 per order fee - so that is an option for those frustrated with Trenitalia.com or Italo Trains site. So now you can book thru Rail Europe trains on the main Milan-Florence-Rome-Naples axis cheaper now IME than on trenitalia.com - how things have changed!
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Old Sep 4th, 2014, 02:52 PM
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Rail Europe doesn't offer the same prices as the Italo site. I just checked an entire day's worth (30 September 2014) of trains from Naples to Milan on the two sites, converting the Italo prices to dollars. For most trains, in 1st (Prima) and 2nd (Smart) classes, the Rail Europe lowest price was 9% higher than the Italo price, but this wasn't consistent. For one train, in 2nd class, it was 40% higher, and for the most expensive class (Club class) it was uniformly 25% higher. A few % points are excusable, due to currency conversion spread, but this is too large a difference to be able to claim price equivalence. Plus there's the $7 delivery fee, which for most of these trains would be another 10% of the base 2nd class ticket price.
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Old Sep 5th, 2014, 04:01 AM
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I should have said some of RE's fares are as low or even lower than Tren Italo's not all - point is to check out RailEurope as well as Italo Tren and Trenitalia - I indeed have seen some on RE that were a tad cheaper than Tren Italo - don't forget there is a 3% foreign transaction fee on many foreign credit cards IF either site takes them.

I did not mean to say they had the exact same prices but at times as cheap or even cheaper and obviously from the litany of complaints about using either Italian site a good option. Check on Rail Europe always now when investigating Italian train tickets.
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Old Sep 5th, 2014, 05:46 AM
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I bought tickets on the Italo site about a year ago, with absolutely no problem. Easy peasy.
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Old Sep 5th, 2014, 08:43 AM
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bought tickets on the Italo site about a year ago, with absolutely no problem. Easy peasy.>

not so easy for some as recent posts attest to but easier than finicky flummoxing for many trenitalia.com.
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Old Sep 5th, 2014, 09:20 AM
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Rail Europe doesn't offer the same prices as the Italo site>

Well I just checked for Sep 11 - 9-11 Florence to Rome- for RailEurope and for every Italo train listed they charged $45 before 11 am and after $37 - for every Italo train listed (on the RailEurope web site) - but I could not get the Italo Tren site to work - my security program blocked access to the site on security grounds so I could not see what Italo Trains were really charging - but if the 25-40% bandied about more from bvience above that would mean Italo Tren site would charge instead of $45 - say 25% less then it would be $34 and for the $37 RE Italo Trens $28 - which could be possible I guess but I could not find out. But outrageous mark ups - well possibly but likely no.

Seems to me $45 and $37 from RE for those trains would probably be a minor increase - I'll keep trying to see if I can get the site to work.
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Old Sep 5th, 2014, 09:33 AM
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I found Trenitalia to be frustrating and confusing. I will certainly give Italo a try next time around and hopefully be without the tearing my hair out of my head portion of my trip planning.
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Old Sep 5th, 2014, 01:01 PM
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bvienci -

Seems to me $45 and $37 from RE for those trains would probably be a minor increase - I'll keep trying to see if I can get the site to work.>

that is about 31 euros and 23 euros - does Italo Tren best those - plus the foreign exchange charges for non-dollar transactions?

Certainly not the whopping 25-40% surcharges you claim.?
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Old Sep 6th, 2014, 08:28 AM
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and it seems Italo Trens do also charge a booking fee - of $5 per order vs RailEurope's $7 per order. The point is always check Rail Europe now for Italian train fares on lines where Italo Tren now competes - could even be cheaper it seems all told.
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Old Sep 6th, 2014, 10:32 AM
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>>>and it seems Italo Trens do also charge a booking fee - of $5 per order>>Contrary to what Palenq says, they've had lots of problems with their web site, and apparently routinely refuse credit cards from some countries.>>don't forget there is a 3% foreign transaction fee on many foreign credit cards
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Old Sep 6th, 2014, 10:34 AM
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The Italo prices are all in Euros, Pal. Where are you getting this "$5 per order" from? When I booked last winter, it was all done online, I printed out my receipt with the code on it, and that was it. I was charged the exact amount of the ticket.
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