Is this realistic... advice?

Old Jan 29th, 2015, 04:02 AM
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Is this realistic... advice?

Aloha all,
New to the site, so hopefully I am posting my questions in all the right places. My husband and I are from the U.S. and looking to take a 2-month backpacking trip across Europe from end of July to end of September.
So far the plan is this:
Ireland - 7 days (rental car) Dublin to Dingle to Galway and back
Scotland - 5 days (rental car) Glasgow to Isle of Skye to Inverness
England - 5 days (subway/tour bus) London
Belgium - 3 days (rail/walk) Brussels flower carpet to Bruges
France - 9 days (subway) Paris to Bordeaux to Burgundy
Switzerland - 6 days (rail/??) Geneva to Grindelwald
Italy - 11 days (rail/walk) Rome to Florence to Venice
Austria - 3 days (rail/walk) Vienna
Poland - 3 days (rail/??) Krakow
Czech Republic - 3 days (??) Prague
Germany - 4 days (rail/walk) Munich Oktoberfest
My husband and I are both in our early 30's and this will be our first trip to Europe!
Any advice on best mode of transport/hostels/favorite hole in the wall diners or must-do trails? Also...any tips on which electronic devices we should bring and best ways to Skype family throughout trip? All responses will be read and greatly appreciated.
I've noted above in parenthesis what we had planned to do w/transportation...is there more than 1 rail company, that part seems so confusing to me.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 04:22 AM
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Is this the order you are pursuing to do this--doesn't seem quite contiguous/backtracking.
Short time in France--particularly Paris and a long way from Bordeaux to Burgundy.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 04:34 AM
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There are multiple rail companies (each country has their own plus some private lines). You should look at budget flights for some of this which can be cheaper than trains (although not in high season which seems to be when you are traveling).

www.whichbudget.com
www.skyscanner.com

I think Poland and Czech Republic are a bit of the outliers on this trip. You might add that time elsewhere unless you have must sees in those places.

You need to take into account the things you actually want to see in these places. Three hotel nights somewhere only gives you two sightseeing days.

The more you move around, the more it costs. Do you have a budget?
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 04:37 AM
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You have a LOT of places and I don't see where you have allowed time to get form one place to another. That is - is the travel day coming from the number of days for the first stop or is the travel day coming from the city you are going to?

For many cities, this miscounting will leave you with only 2 days for sightseeing: Vienna, Krakow, Prague etc. And your time in France and Italy is very tight since you will have more than one day in traveling from place to place.

I would go to bahn.de now - which has rail schedules for all of europe - to figure out how much time you will be spending just getting from one place to another. And remember that 2 nights in a city means you have just one day for sightseeing. (And yes, each country has it's own rail company - some have more than one - and bahn.de will give you only schedules, not costs. For the latter you need to check costs with each railroad - and then see if a multi-country pass makes sense. You really need a spreadsheet to figure this out.)

Also - if you are looking at doing a lot of hiking you are focused mainly on cities - and not the small towns and rural areas that will give you access to the countryside.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 04:42 AM
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Connections are the most difficult part of travel, particularly in a language not your own.
So forget about restaurants, you can find them on the internet or word of mouth.
Get yourself one good portable wifi device to search for food and sites. I use a Chromebook (very cheap).

Concentrate your research on how to get from one place to another --- the buses, the trains, the trams. Find maps of the systems, and how you buy tickets.
Book your first stay, then you can book the next from your first.

And plan downtime. Travel can be exhausting. Be flexible about what you do and when.
I make one day schedules for what to see and do, with no day appointed. I can shuffle these according to what I want to do that day.

Since you're backpacking, read a ton about how to pack light without omitting essentials.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 04:48 AM
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Welcome. Nice that you have so much time. Now, how to spend it...?

Your last 4 countries seem more like an afterthought - hardly time to see those places or to get around between them. Not enough time. You are averaging about 5 days per country throughout. It will be a bit of a blur.

At the hottest time of year, you have 11 days of summer prices and competition for rooms in sweltering Italy. I love Rome. I like Florence and Venice very much but you are young and you will return to Europe no doubt. I would leave Italy for another year and a different (cooler) season when your Euro will go further. Lying well to the south, it represents a huge detour anyway. Keep north this time.

Speaking of price... if you're thinking low-end rooms, you ought to skip Oktoberfest. It's ridiculous... no doubt already booked up and astronomically expense even now. And if that's all you see of Germany, what a waste. Find something else to see in Germany. A nice region (and very close to Prague) is northern Bavaria... Rothenburg, Nuremberg, Bamberg, beautiful old cities, good beer and pubs, fairly cheap rooms, WW II history. 4-5 days there would be great.

Bamberg: http://us.hellomagazine.com/imagenes...137_0007-a.jpg

Nuremberg: http://media.belocal.de/120712/1152x768_0,0c.jpg
Muremberg's Barfußer pub: http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/med...arfusser-2.jpg

Rothenburg: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3072/...f962ce3977.jpg


You might drop Poland - a long way to go. (If you do keep it, maybe fly to Krakow to help minimize your ground travel time. Ryanair?) I'd consider dropping Vienna too. Spend a day or two in Salzburg instead - much easier to reach from Italy or Germany.

It seems a huge shame to visit only London in England. Add some time there. Cotswold villages??

Try this - you'll average a week in each country this way - more in some, less in others...

Ireland - Scotland - England - Belgium - France - Switzerland - Germany and Salzburg - Prague
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 05:01 AM
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Your trip seems a bit like a forced march. As many have already said you haven't left enough time to see much of anything except the inside of trains and train stations.

If it were my trip - and it most certainly is not - I would leave Germany, Poland, Austria and Prague for another time. Spread the time among your other destinations - England, France and Italy especially. I would spend a few days in the English countryside, and in the French countryside around Burgundy and in the south of France. I would skip Bordeaux. In Italy, I would break up city stays with some time in the countryside - perhaps Tuscany or Umbria. Or if you will be there during a very hot season, perhaps the lakes.

SOunds like a lovely adventure; whatever you decide, have a wonderful trip.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 05:14 AM
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I would add more time to Belgium. We spent 6 nights there last summer and we could have had one more. We stayed in Ghent for five nights and visited Brugges and Iper (toured the battlefields). Ghent in my view is much nicer than Brugges which was really overrun with tourists. We only had one night in Brussels and could have used an extra.

For a first trip to France, I would think that five nights in Paris is a bare minimum, depending on what you want to see. We've been twice now, 5nights and 4 nights and we still haven't visited some areas that have been on our wish list since the first trip.

We're visiting Italy this summer. We have five nights and I'm having a really hard time figuring out how to do what we'd like in that timeframe and we're just staying in Rome. We have a daytrip planned for Pompeii. I'd love to see the Amalfi coast and do another daytrip somewhere. Even without AC and the other daytrip, I can't fit in what I'd like in Rome itself so I'm considering adding an extra day. I can't imagine visiting three cities in 11 days.

My advice is to research each location. Figure out what you'd like to see in each place and then determine how many days you need to do that (remember, some places have many places closed on certain days so you'll need to take that into consideration)

Then figure out how you're going to get to the next location and how long it will take to do that. We're travelling to Swtizserland after Rome. Thought about train but cheap flight was better. Flight is only 2hrs but leaves at 1pm. So only basically a wasted day. Only an hour to visit something in the morning before heading to the airport and won't arrive at destination until 3:30pm. You need this information before you can determine if you can fit everything in. Do it for each location, determine how many days you'll need to do it the way you'd like, then subtract the number of days you have and you'll determine how many cities need to be cut from your list.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 05:21 AM
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Hmmm.

I think I would cut 2 days from Switzlerand and give them to Italy. I would drop Krakow and give the time to Vienna and Munich to take day trips.

I disagree with the remark that "Connections are the most difficult part of travel, particularly in a language not your own." All transportation hubs in Europe offer plenty of help in English and they are set up in ways to make them un-confusing to internetional travelers. That doesn't mean you don't need to do research, but they are not the most difficult part of travel.

I also disagree with "So forget about restaurants, you can find them on the internet or word of mouth." You'll have a nicer trip if you understand something about the food culture of the places you are going, and experience markets and street food as well as restaurants.

Finally, is budget or heat a consideration for you? Some of your destinations are among the most expensive in Europe (as opposed to say, Portugal or parts of Spain and Italy where you are not going). If you very much want the destinations you've named, you can definitely do them on a budget and have a great time, but just be aware that not all destinations are equal when it comes to how much you will spend each day, and plan accordingly.

As for heat, if it doesn't bother you, fine. But if it does, then think about tweaking that itinerary in the direction of cooler places. You have a fair number of hot cities and landlocked valleys.

But just in general, we could all give you alternative fantasies of where we would go -- hey, how about some lakes or British villages or Umbrian hill towns? -- but if trains don't go there or you'd rather see Krakow, your backpacking itinerary for Europe looks as reasonable as any other I've seen, and to me it wouldn't be a "forced march." I'd be thrilled to see all the places you've pinpointed. I enjoy travel in Europe.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 05:40 AM
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In the 90's I backpacked solo for two months in Europe and I visited over 20 destinations/cities/towns in that time period but I was on an adventure and was more interested in meeting people (and partying) than museums and culture (though I still got enough of those). I don't think the number of countries you have is too much but after you refine your research you may shift the amount of days in some places and perhaps exchange some places for others.

The only thing that was different about the 90's is Europe was much cheaper and my Eurail pass was a great deal as it allowed unlimited first class rail travel for two months in 17 countries. I did no research before leaving and had no itinerary and just used to jump on a train whenever. Sadly those days of cheap, carefree travel with a railpass are gone so you will have some research to do.

Depending on where you go you'll have to compare the cost of flying vs. rail travel and as far as rail travel the best website to learn how to travel around Europe by rail is www.seat61.com. Know that for any long distance trains (such as TGV and Intercités trains in France) you need to buy those tickets up to 3 months in advance for the cheapest fares. Fares increase as your travel dates approach.

I can only really offer advice about France and I would agree that Paris, Bordeaux and Burgundy are too much with only 9 days. Bordeaux and Burgundy are on opposite sides of the country and you'll have to go through Paris to get from one to the other. I would drop Bordeaux and stick to Paris and one other region that will fit logically with wherever you next destination is after France. There are loads of great day trips you can make from Paris where the trains have fixed prices and cheap fares and if you look at the thread below you will see a list I often post about day trips from Paris:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic...de_France.html

Anyway, I'm sure you'll get a lot of great advice from posters here and I know that your adventure is going to be the best tile of your life. It certainly was for me.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 06:55 AM
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An interesting adventure as "this will be our first trip to Europe!"
A couple of questions: 1. Do you drive a car with a manual transmission? Automatics are a rare breed in the UK and Europe. 2. Are you familiar with driving on the other side of the road, as they do in Scottland?

Your time in France looks fine to me, but unless you have some specific readson for visiting Bordeaux, I'd skip it this trip and do Lyon instead (great gastronomic destination). Bordeaux should be included in a tour of the Pays Basque and Béarn.

It's a long haul from Grindelwald to Rome (up to 24 hours on the train). I would head to Milan (www.tourism.milan.it/) for a day or two before venturing on down to Rome. Or skip Rome althgether in the middle of tourist season. The city will be packed with millions to visitors.

Oktoberfest begins on the 19th of September. It's an easy train trip from Prague to Munich.

Overall, I would cut some time in Italy and add more time in Germany.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 07:11 AM
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I would possibly try and split the days more evenly between the different destinations. I'm guessing that you're thinking there will be more to see and do in some places then others hence the unequal divisions, and I understand the thinking behind that, but I just feel if you split the time marginally more evenly you will not get as tired especially after the shorter stops.

I would also (and this is a very personal choice admittedly) drop Ireland - imho the better scenery is in Scotland, and Ireland is an outlier in that everywhere else on your trip connects relatively easily via rail or road.

In terms of what electricals to bring, I would say a smallish tablet is ideal - not as big or heavy as a laptop but will be easier to view stuff on than a phone screen (I imagine you'll have your phones as well, but as an add on, a tablet makes more sense). I am also in favour of a proper camera - not relying on the phone for pics - some people get some decent shots with camera phones - far from poor - but they are never as good as proper camera. Plus the necessary chargers. You will need adaptors for European 2 pin and UK 3 pin sockets. I don't bother with hair care stuff like dryers or tongs - many hotels will have dryers and if not you (or your partner) can just put your/their hair up - you'd probably want to somewhere hot anyway.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 07:42 AM
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For your two month adventure, I'd go with the new iPhone 6 or 6 Plus from T-Mobile. You get free calling within a Wi-Fi zone, other than that calls are only $0.20/minute locally or back home. All data is free, which includes mapping. You can also be in contact with your social media groups and keep everyone up to date as to what's happening. No need to carry a table or iPad, just a good battery backup should you need it.

The iPhone has a GPS feature when taking pictures with the 8-megapixel camera. It also has face time should that be important.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 08:35 AM
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If you decide not to go as far south as Rome, read up on Verona and see if it, in combination with Florence, would give you a good taste of what you want from Italy in terms of iconic Roman ruins + Renaissance beauty.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 08:53 AM
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Verona is a lovely city and combining it with the lakes will mean swimming opportunities and (hopefully) a bit of a breeze.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 09:00 AM
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Or am I getting mixed up with the lady who wanted to avoid too hot bits of Italy and mosquitos? If so, ignore me
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 09:07 AM
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Just to fix some information, the train from Rome to Grindelwald is 8hours, not 24.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 09:32 AM
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True!
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 09:38 AM
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I'd add some time to England--England is a really great country for walking and you should get outside of London to see it. Example, Devon and Cornwall.

I too would drop Bordeaux and add either Lyon or Alsace.I would not spend five days in Paris on this trip. We've been to Paris twice--three days the first time and four the second. Three days will give you a flavor of the city (and any other city for that matter) and reason to return.

I do think you need to make some cuts in the number of places you're going. If it were my trip, I'd cut the eastern Europe part of it.

Finally, disagree with Sandralist both on the transportation issue and on her statement about restaurants (although not with her remarks about food:

Sandra lives in Europe and is used to the transportation system. You don't and it will be a mystery until you've used it.
At this time of year, I wouldn't take a chance on just walking up to the ticket office with a plan to get on the next train. Even if you cut a lot of places, you're still going to be moving around a lot. To maximize your time and enjoyment, do as Zinnia advises: If you're flying into Dublin, figure out how you are going to get from there to Scotland, and from Scotland to England, etc.

I'd at least look at a Eurail pass--it will give you prepaid train travel to all the countries you are planning to go except England and Scotland, and the longer one you buy, the less it costs per day. It also gives you flexibility as to when you travel. So if you get to, say, Florence and decide you want to spend the rest of your time in Tuscany (and you should spend some time in Tuscany for hiking), it's easily done: just don't leave until you're ready. You don't have to worry that your prepaid train to Venice will depart the next morning from Florence. Finally, you won't have to worry about the vagaries of each rail system--although you should make reservations a day or so before you are ready to depart to make sure you have seats. We used an Italian rail pass for a month's trip to Italy many years ago and it worked out well for us.

That's not to say you shouldn't plan your moves in advance so that you have a rough idea of where you're going next and how you're going to get there.

As to restaurants, etc.: I agree that you should become familiar with the food and use markets to minimize your costs. But don't make plans to go to certain restaurants. We gave that up many trips ago and now just "wing it". Get a good guidebook or two and see what the regional specialties are in each area; you'll find that most restaurants will be offering them. Our biggest problem where food is concerned is opening and closing hours: in France outside Paris, for example, lunch is served between about 11:30 and 2:00 p.m. and almost all the restaurants close after that and reopen in the evening. On our last trip, we were reduced to eating at a McDonald's in Tours because we thought that at least some place would be open at 3 p.m.

Try to buy your food for lunch at local markets: It's much cheaper, less time-consuming, and more fun to eat a picnic somewhere. For example, in Paris, go to a boulangerie to get some bread, a market stall to get some cheese or tapenade, and a wine shop for a bottle of wine. Then find a relatively deserted place to sit and enjoy it while watching the people.

Get Trip Advisor and Yelp apps: You can use Tripadvisor to find lodging, restaurants, and attractions and Yelp to find restaurants.

Finally, your trip sounds great, if somewhat ambitious in terms of number of countries visited, and I envy you the youth and health to do it.
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Old Jan 29th, 2015, 03:41 PM
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Wow! So many excellent responses in less than 24 hours. I am SO hyped for my trip lol. In response to a few of you, I am not going until July of 2016 so I don't think Oktoberfest is booked just yet (I hope). Also, only visiting Brussels for 1 day for the flower carpet. Husband and I have been working our tails off for this trip and since it's in 2016 we will continue to do so. We currently reside in Hawaii where hot is only compounded by humid, before this Las Vegas, where hot was compounded by HOTTER...so I am actually afraid I will be cold in Europe. I've researched the average temps in every city we had planned to go and some were in the 60's which is winter for me! I have extensively planned the first part of the trip being sure to include a day or two in each city for absolutely nothing so as not to feel we are in a rat race. Some of you caught on to the disorganization of the tail end of my trip, that's because it's a rough draft for now. My husband and I are both at the end of our work contracts in 2016, so with the money saved we are confident in our budget and we will have work waiting for us when we return whenever we choose to do that, which is such a blessing to make this trip possible. I have dreamed of Europe my entire life, my husband knows he married a wanderlust-er. Bordeaux is really a guilty side-trip for me...there are Chateau's there that belong to a movie I grew up watching and when I think of France that is what I see- it would thrill me to actually go there...but unfortunately it is quite a ways out. Krakow and Rome were my husband's 2 requests because he is fascinated with history...so the tail end of the trip was really about getting up to Krakow whilst waiting for Oktoberfest to begin after Italy. Someone mentioned Budapest may be a better way to go. Neither of us are art majors so we plan to visit a few must-see museums along the way but most of our time will be spent enjoying the company of each other and people around us. We plan to start a family after this trip so I think this will be my first/last HOORAH in Europe at least until I'm older. That's why I'm trying to cram my version of the crème de la crème into 2 months, but like I said we are flexible with dates at this point. I have also been learning German so that I will hopefully have an easier time with rail, and maybe even through out a legit "Guten tag" at Oktoberfest! lol Lot's of good reading to do now thanks to all!!
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