PalenQ

I recently read that England was the most dense country in Europe - recently surpassing the Netherlands in that dubious prize - and I often see references to England as a country - well I know Scotland could be a country but England - what does a country mean - to me it means being soveriegn and in the U.N. and Olympics - so why the heck is England often referred to as a country?

sofarsogood

England is a country that joined with another country to form the United Kingdom. On many matters such as the UN and the Olympics they act as one country. In more important matters, such as football, they act as separate countries.

I always thought Monaco was the most densely populated state in Europe. Is that a country?

PalenQ

Well Malta I should have said was the most densely populated state - I should have said excluding the postage-stamp 'countries' - except for Malta I read in several British papers from Googling that 'England was now the densest European country' after Malta.

But yes Monaco or even the Vatican (lack of birth control) could be much higher.

nanabee

Yes and Africa is a country too.

bvlenci

If you can see that Scotland might be a country, why do you have trouble seeing England as a country?

hetismij2

Monaco, Vatican City and Malta top the European list.

Whilst not a country in the UN sense the four constituent parts of the United Kingdom would argue that they are countries. 3 of the 4 have their own parliament in addition to the London UK Parliament.

PalenQ

right o but England don't have its own parliament and are called the home counties I think - and I think none of the constituent parts of the U.K. really fit my definition of what a country is - an elected head of state and parliament with total control.

I guess Isle of Mann and each Channel island is a country too - not that I care just wondered?

Southam

England has an international football team (soccer, that is) which to many of us is official proof. My British friends refer to the islands as the United Kingdom, UK being a neat contraction. Hence the Union Jack as the flag. It takes in Northern Ireland, Scotland (for now), Wales, and a handful of islands scattered around the coastlines and named for cows and horses and duty-free shops. Rule Britannia!

Peter_S_Aus

"Country" is ill defined. Think in terms of nation states. "England" is not a nation state, but the United Kingdom is a nation state, as are Malta, Vatican et al. Not sure about Monaco, which is not much. Disneyland is not a nation state.

Interesting discussion.

PalenQ

I hear Berwick-on-Tweed in the past at least claimed to be soveriegn - not part of England or Scotland?

Underhill

Monaco is certainly a country, albeit quite a small one.

Rubicund

Monaco is a Principality. Pal, unless you are winding us up, your knowledge on this subject is quite breathtaking.

PalenQ

If you can see that Scotland might be a country, why do you have trouble seeing England as a country?>

Well again there is no English Parliament but the U.K. Parliament runs things for England I guess - to me that is a major difference between Scotland and England in terms of being a country.

I think Sark has more of a claim to being a country as it has its own head of state - some flukey royal but still.

But the U.K. does say that the Queen is lord over England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland so in that sense they should be the same.

Why don't England have their own parliament if Scotland and Northern Ireland (when not ruled direct by Parliament) do?

Are the English second-class citizens in their own country - first-class in terms of economy however and population.

hetismij2

There are lots of reasons for there not being an English parliament, way too complicated to go into here. I have no doubt you could find pages of internet information and rantings on the subject.
The head of state in Sark is the same as in England or Wales or Scotland or Gibraltar or New Zealand or Papua New Guinea.

Nonconformist

"England don't have its own parliament and are called the home counties I think"

No - the Home Counties are just the counties closest to London, just a small part of England (and the grouping is not significant in any way). In popular culture the term, tends to be used as shorthand for the well-off middle class parts of the south.

tom_mn

Because England does not have its own separate entry in the Eurovision contest, it is not a country.

tedgale

I am amused to see "having an elected head of state" as a determinant of nationhood.

By that standard, England is not a sovereign country, nor is the United Kingdom. Nor is the Netherlands or Sweden. Nor is Canada.

We are all monarchies. Our head of state in decided by birth, not election.

Hooameye

"Are the English second-class citizens in their own country - first-class in terms of economy however and population."

Don't get me started on that one.

"Why don't England have their own parliament if Scotland and Northern Ireland (when not ruled direct by Parliament) do?"

Don't forget Wales has an "assembly" as well, it seems that if you moan enough and get enough publicity, you can get what you want. Made me laugh when they were interviewing people in Scotland on the run up to the independence vote, their reason for voting yes was that "Westminster" has forgotten them. My immediate thought was "join the club love, Westminster has forgotten ALL of us" (including England).

PatrickLondon

>>"Why don't England have their own parliament if Scotland and Northern Ireland (when not ruled direct by Parliament) do?"<<

Because with 85% of the population England dominates the Westminster Parliament, and there are large areas of legislation where it would be hard to disentangle purely English aspects - and even if one does, there are knock-on effects onthe devolved administrations. England is the elephant in the bed whatever they do; whereas there are few if any knock-on effects in the reverse direction.

And a huge part of public spending and taxation decisions (pensions and social security) are on matters that aren't devolved to Scotland and Wales.

It wouldn't be impossible formally to federalise, or separate out English matters, just difficult, and hitherto it's not been thought worth the bother. And as soon as it's raised, the question of over-centralisation within England, and how best to deal with that, raises its head.

annhig

Because England does not have its own separate entry in the Eurovision contest, it is not a country.>>

so the footie doesn't count? All the 4 nations that make up the United Kingdom have their own teams that enter the European and World Cups.

Pal - without knowing it, you have hit upon the West Lothian question, beloved of Tam Dayell MPl and others - why should Scottish MPs be able to vote on purely English matters, but English MPs not be able to vote on purely Scottish ones?

endless articles, treatises and books have been written on this one!