Intense Itinerary: Looking for help making adjustments.
Feb 8th, 2013, 08:25 PM
#1
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Intense Itinerary: Looking for help making adjustments.
Hi everyone!
This is my first post so go easy on me! I have my first trip to Europe booked for April of 2013 and I have a very intense itinerary and I was hoping that some of you with more experience would help guide my ventures. There are two non negotiable areas that I have to travel to, my flight from the USA arrives in London and leaves from Madrid, but I am really having trouble figuring out the middle of my trip.
My trip is planned of the following:
Fly to London and arrive on April 6th
Spend 3 days in London, on third day travel by train to Paris.
Spend 2 days in Paris, then travel by train to Lucerne
Spend 2 days in Lucerne and then travel by train to Geneva
Catch a Flight from Geneva to Venice
Spend 2 days in Venice, then travel to Rome
Spend 2 days in Rome, then catch a flight to Barcelona
Spend 2 days in Barcelona, then travel by train to Madrid
Spend 2 days in Madrid and fly out on the 20th to get back to the USA.
I have seen a few different routes from Lucerne to Venice but I cant seem to find the best route, either by train or plane. Also I am a little nervous trying to squeeze so many different places into such a short time. Is this itinerary a realistic one? I am only traveling by train/flights and I wont be using a rental car. Once again, I am very new to traveling through Europe and I honestly want to make the most/best out of my trip and my time. I am looking for any help that any of you could give me! I truly appreciate your time and expertise!
I am hoping to have the trip of a lifetime!
Thank you!
~C
This is my first post so go easy on me! I have my first trip to Europe booked for April of 2013 and I have a very intense itinerary and I was hoping that some of you with more experience would help guide my ventures. There are two non negotiable areas that I have to travel to, my flight from the USA arrives in London and leaves from Madrid, but I am really having trouble figuring out the middle of my trip.
My trip is planned of the following:
Fly to London and arrive on April 6th
Spend 3 days in London, on third day travel by train to Paris.
Spend 2 days in Paris, then travel by train to Lucerne
Spend 2 days in Lucerne and then travel by train to Geneva
Catch a Flight from Geneva to Venice
Spend 2 days in Venice, then travel to Rome
Spend 2 days in Rome, then catch a flight to Barcelona
Spend 2 days in Barcelona, then travel by train to Madrid
Spend 2 days in Madrid and fly out on the 20th to get back to the USA.
I have seen a few different routes from Lucerne to Venice but I cant seem to find the best route, either by train or plane. Also I am a little nervous trying to squeeze so many different places into such a short time. Is this itinerary a realistic one? I am only traveling by train/flights and I wont be using a rental car. Once again, I am very new to traveling through Europe and I honestly want to make the most/best out of my trip and my time. I am looking for any help that any of you could give me! I truly appreciate your time and expertise!
I am hoping to have the trip of a lifetime!
Thank you!
~C
Feb 8th, 2013, 08:47 PM
#2
you have 14 nights and want to visit seven major cities in four countries. This is nuts (meant in the nicest possible way.)
In none of your destinations will you have nearly as much time as you think.
In none of your destinations will you have nearly as much time as you think.
Feb 8th, 2013, 09:28 PM
#4
Some things to consider: Your first day is taken up w/ arrival formalities, logistics and jetlag . . . basically a non-day
The 20th is strictly a travel day - packing, checking out, getting to the airport.
You lose almost a whole day Lucerne to Geneva to Venice.
You lose almost a whole day Rome to Barcelona
You lose half a day for every other travel day.
So out of your 14 nights/15 days you are spending 6 full days in transit and only have 9 days to "see/do".
The 20th is strictly a travel day - packing, checking out, getting to the airport.
You lose almost a whole day Lucerne to Geneva to Venice.
You lose almost a whole day Rome to Barcelona
You lose half a day for every other travel day.
So out of your 14 nights/15 days you are spending 6 full days in transit and only have 9 days to "see/do".
Feb 8th, 2013, 10:30 PM
#5
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I certainly agree this is too much. I'd first off just drop the whole Lucerne/Geneva thing. Not that they are lousy places to visit, but they're not in the same league as the rest of your list and by rearranging things, you can have a better/saner itinery and thus a better shot at a "lifetime" trip:
3 days London
3 days Paris
3 days Venice
3 days Rome
3 days Madrid
Note, I also left out Barcelona. Once again, it's just adding too much travel-time and hassle for at best a days sightseeing. Barcelona deserves alot more than a day.
Even the above trip is going to be rushed, but I think doable (depending on your personal energy reserves) and with 3 days, you'll at least get a decent taste of each city.
- Kevin
3 days London
3 days Paris
3 days Venice
3 days Rome
3 days Madrid
Note, I also left out Barcelona. Once again, it's just adding too much travel-time and hassle for at best a days sightseeing. Barcelona deserves alot more than a day.
Even the above trip is going to be rushed, but I think doable (depending on your personal energy reserves) and with 3 days, you'll at least get a decent taste of each city.
- Kevin
Feb 9th, 2013, 01:23 AM
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<< Is this itinerary a realistic one? >>
This trip will allow for memories of train stations and airports and little else. It takes about 2 days to become acclimated to a new city and when you're unfamiliar with a place, getting to and from sights takes more time than you think it will. It also takes time to travel from one city to another.
This is your itinerary. I don't understand how you have the amount of time you claim in each location and still plan to return home on April 20.
Did you mean that you would spend 1 day in some locations? Or perhaps you did not account for the time it takes to travel from one location to the other.
April 6 - arrive London
April 7-9 - London
April 10 - travel to Paris
April 11-12 - Paris
April 13 - travel to Lucerne
April 14-15 - Lucerne
April 15 - train to Geneva then flight to Venice
April 16-17 - Venice
April 18 - travel to Rome
April 19-20 - Rome
April 21 - travel to Barcelona
April 22-23 - Barcelona
April 24 - travel to Madrid
April 25-26 - Madrid
This trip will allow for memories of train stations and airports and little else. It takes about 2 days to become acclimated to a new city and when you're unfamiliar with a place, getting to and from sights takes more time than you think it will. It also takes time to travel from one city to another.
This is your itinerary. I don't understand how you have the amount of time you claim in each location and still plan to return home on April 20.
Did you mean that you would spend 1 day in some locations? Or perhaps you did not account for the time it takes to travel from one location to the other.
April 6 - arrive London
April 7-9 - London
April 10 - travel to Paris
April 11-12 - Paris
April 13 - travel to Lucerne
April 14-15 - Lucerne
April 15 - train to Geneva then flight to Venice
April 16-17 - Venice
April 18 - travel to Rome
April 19-20 - Rome
April 21 - travel to Barcelona
April 22-23 - Barcelona
April 24 - travel to Madrid
April 25-26 - Madrid
Feb 9th, 2013, 03:17 AM
#7
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I've done parts of the route, and think that unless you have a reason to go to Geneva, I'd just skip it and go straight from Lucerne to Venice. It kinda looks like you're swinging back and forth, like switchbacks going from Paris to Lucerne, then Lucerne to Geneva, then to Venice... when you could prob do the TGV from Paris to Lausanne/Geneva, then go up to Lucerne, which will take you a better part of the day. I broke it up by going to Zermatt and Interlaken in betw, but I didn't go to Italy. If you can drop at least one place, like Geneva, I think you'll enjoy the extra time in either Paris or Lucerne. There's so much to see in Paris, you'll love the extra time to relax and/or enjoy an extra activity. If you're still willing to fly betw two points, fly from Lucerne to Venice to buy yourself a couple extra hours in Venice. Its probably about the same in rail or airfares, so it becomes a time advantage you're looking for. If you're having trouble finding a flight, check out options to get to Milan, then take the train from Milan to Venice. That's only about a 2 hr train ride, and you'll get the chance to maybe sneak a quick excursion in to see the Milan Cathedral or go shopping there.
Hope this is helpful!! Have fun!!
Hope this is helpful!! Have fun!!
Feb 9th, 2013, 03:48 AM
#8
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Yeah, as painful as it is, you really need to drop at least one of your five countries. Really you should drop two. You have to have London and Spain so you really should just sit down and decide which of the others can wait till next time. Most people would say Switzerland but only you know your priorities.
There are lots of different styles of travel - even on this forum. Many people totally hate one, two and even three night stays. But even for people who do enjoy that kind of travel, you can't have a whole trip of them (you can scatter two night stays in between four/five night stays) - plus- you have to consider how long the travel is between them. If you are staying one place for two days, then taking a short train ride (3 hr or so) to the next that's one thing, but your distances are way longer than that, and several include flying - that really eats of the entire day.
I would do London, Paris and then probably Spain since that's where you are flying out of. It looks like you have 15 nights. If you did 3 or 4 nights each that leaves you with only one more week. Split between Barcelona and Madrid that's still a pretty fast paced trip. I am totally in love with Italy but really, you don't have time. If Italy is more important to you than Spain and you can't change your return ticket then do the week in Italy and just fly to Madrid for two days at the end.
But if you decide Italy is more important to you than Spain, look into how much it would cost to change the return ticket. Hundreds of dollars yes, but how much do you think all those train/plane tickets you need to go between your five countries is going to cost.
There are lots of different styles of travel - even on this forum. Many people totally hate one, two and even three night stays. But even for people who do enjoy that kind of travel, you can't have a whole trip of them (you can scatter two night stays in between four/five night stays) - plus- you have to consider how long the travel is between them. If you are staying one place for two days, then taking a short train ride (3 hr or so) to the next that's one thing, but your distances are way longer than that, and several include flying - that really eats of the entire day.
I would do London, Paris and then probably Spain since that's where you are flying out of. It looks like you have 15 nights. If you did 3 or 4 nights each that leaves you with only one more week. Split between Barcelona and Madrid that's still a pretty fast paced trip. I am totally in love with Italy but really, you don't have time. If Italy is more important to you than Spain and you can't change your return ticket then do the week in Italy and just fly to Madrid for two days at the end.
But if you decide Italy is more important to you than Spain, look into how much it would cost to change the return ticket. Hundreds of dollars yes, but how much do you think all those train/plane tickets you need to go between your five countries is going to cost.
Feb 9th, 2013, 05:59 AM
#9
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You have locked yourself into London and Madrid and you have a very limited amount of time.
IMHO the only thing that makes sens is to limit yourself to London, Paris and Madrid - and actually see something of the places you will visit, As your plan is set up you have only 1 days in many of these cities and you are spending as much time traveling as you are actually seeing dong things.
Limiting to 3 places allows you to actually see more than a couple o fmajor sights, to learn about the city and it's expore its life and even do a couple of day trips out into the countryside to see major sights there (Windsor Castle or Oxford, Versailles, Toledo).
Leave Switz and Italy for a different trip - which you will need 17 or 18 days to actually see much of.
Believe me, I have been to europe more than 100 times - between vacation and business - and what you have planned will be a very expensive (since you are moving so much) and frustrating experience.
IMHO the only thing that makes sens is to limit yourself to London, Paris and Madrid - and actually see something of the places you will visit, As your plan is set up you have only 1 days in many of these cities and you are spending as much time traveling as you are actually seeing dong things.
Limiting to 3 places allows you to actually see more than a couple o fmajor sights, to learn about the city and it's expore its life and even do a couple of day trips out into the countryside to see major sights there (Windsor Castle or Oxford, Versailles, Toledo).
Leave Switz and Italy for a different trip - which you will need 17 or 18 days to actually see much of.
Believe me, I have been to europe more than 100 times - between vacation and business - and what you have planned will be a very expensive (since you are moving so much) and frustrating experience.
Feb 9th, 2013, 05:59 AM
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Might i suggest four nights each in London, Paris, Rome, and Madrid? (Or possibly swap out Venice for Rome). This would give you a lovely overview of Europe with a little time to actually enjoy each location. Remember that an important part of "experiencing" Europe is lingering in cafes, roaming small streets, getting lost... You need to give yourself time for these things.
Also, all the travel you plan to do will eat up a lot of money as well as time. All that travel starts to add up quickly. You will have more time and money to truly enjoy your trip if you cut out a few locations.
Also, all the travel you plan to do will eat up a lot of money as well as time. All that travel starts to add up quickly. You will have more time and money to truly enjoy your trip if you cut out a few locations.
Feb 9th, 2013, 06:01 AM
#11
Welcome to Fodors, as the guys say you have put a lot of trains and planes in your holiday. Some of your sites are big cites will plenty to do in them while others are no more than towns with a lot of nature to ramble in. April is an ok month but you will find a few chilly/wet days in the north.
So it does depend on why you want to be on holiday as to which two sites you drop out. I'd drop the swiss bits but others might not. If I had extra days (ie the swiss ones) I'd put them in London and Rome both of which look a little light.
I'd dig out something like the rough guide to europe and work out what to drop and then come back
So it does depend on why you want to be on holiday as to which two sites you drop out. I'd drop the swiss bits but others might not. If I had extra days (ie the swiss ones) I'd put them in London and Rome both of which look a little light.
I'd dig out something like the rough guide to europe and work out what to drop and then come back
Feb 9th, 2013, 06:43 AM
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My thinking: If you are going to do this "zip" tour, then you might as well go with a "If It's Tuesday, It Must Be Belgium. At least those have all the packing lists, luggage out, transfer, ticket in hand type of thing. You will be doing a lot of traveling, take a lot of pictures and see...
NOTHING.
So you can
...Change your beginning or end point (yeah, it will cost you, but right now, you are costing yourself zillions in between-city travel)
AND/OR
...Pick THREE places you really want to visit. Arrange those logically. If you can then fit in a fourth and fifth in a connect-the-dot easily, then go for it.
But you are brave to ask us! Do enjoy this planning part. Remember, all travel is anticipation, the journey, and the memories.
NOTHING.
So you can
...Change your beginning or end point (yeah, it will cost you, but right now, you are costing yourself zillions in between-city travel)
AND/OR
...Pick THREE places you really want to visit. Arrange those logically. If you can then fit in a fourth and fifth in a connect-the-dot easily, then go for it.
But you are brave to ask us! Do enjoy this planning part. Remember, all travel is anticipation, the journey, and the memories.
Feb 9th, 2013, 06:47 AM
#14
>>>>Fly to London and arrive on April 6th
Spend 3 days in London, on third day travel by train to Paris.
Spend 2 days in Paris, then travel by train to Lucerne
Spend 2 days in Lucerne and then travel by train to Geneva
Catch a Flight from Geneva to Venice
Spend 2 days in Venice, then travel to Rome
Spend 2 days in Rome, then catch a flight to Barcelona
Spend 2 days in Barcelona, then travel by train to Madrid
Spend 2 days in Madrid and fly out on the 20th to get back to the USA. <<<
Reality check:
April 5 - Depart USA
April 6 - Arrive London, check-in, recover from jet lag
April 7 - London (day 1)
April 8 - London (day 2)
April 9 - London (you did say you had 3 days in London)
April 10 - Transfer to Paris (travel and check out/in will take minimum of a 1/2 day)
April 11 - Paris (day 1)
April 12 - Paris (day 2)
April 13 - Travel to Lucerne
April 14 - Lucerne (day 1)
April 15 - Lucerne (day 2)
April 16 - Travel to Geneva/Venice
April 17 - Venice (day 1)
April 18 - Venice (day 2)
April 19 - Travel to Rome (train travel alone is 4 hours plus time it takes to check out, get to station in Venice, get from station in Rome to hotel and check in - your day is shot)
April 20 - Oops! Out of time! No more trip and you are nowhere close to Madrid.
Drop Switzerland and Italy. Focus on London/Paris and Spain since your flights are already booked.
London (April 6,7,8,9) 3 sightseeing days
Paris (April 10,11,12) 2 sightseeing days (you will be shortchanging Paris
Barcelona (April 13,14,15,16) 3 sightseeing days
Madrid (April 17,18,19) 2 sightseeing days
April 20 - Fly home
Spend 3 days in London, on third day travel by train to Paris.
Spend 2 days in Paris, then travel by train to Lucerne
Spend 2 days in Lucerne and then travel by train to Geneva
Catch a Flight from Geneva to Venice
Spend 2 days in Venice, then travel to Rome
Spend 2 days in Rome, then catch a flight to Barcelona
Spend 2 days in Barcelona, then travel by train to Madrid
Spend 2 days in Madrid and fly out on the 20th to get back to the USA. <<<
Reality check:
April 5 - Depart USA
April 6 - Arrive London, check-in, recover from jet lag
April 7 - London (day 1)
April 8 - London (day 2)
April 9 - London (you did say you had 3 days in London)
April 10 - Transfer to Paris (travel and check out/in will take minimum of a 1/2 day)
April 11 - Paris (day 1)
April 12 - Paris (day 2)
April 13 - Travel to Lucerne
April 14 - Lucerne (day 1)
April 15 - Lucerne (day 2)
April 16 - Travel to Geneva/Venice
April 17 - Venice (day 1)
April 18 - Venice (day 2)
April 19 - Travel to Rome (train travel alone is 4 hours plus time it takes to check out, get to station in Venice, get from station in Rome to hotel and check in - your day is shot)
April 20 - Oops! Out of time! No more trip and you are nowhere close to Madrid.
Drop Switzerland and Italy. Focus on London/Paris and Spain since your flights are already booked.
London (April 6,7,8,9) 3 sightseeing days
Paris (April 10,11,12) 2 sightseeing days (you will be shortchanging Paris
Barcelona (April 13,14,15,16) 3 sightseeing days
Madrid (April 17,18,19) 2 sightseeing days
April 20 - Fly home
Feb 9th, 2013, 06:56 AM
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I like to create a day-by-day itinerary. I note the travel between locations since it will take up at least half the day, perhaps more, when you consider checking out of hotels, travel to stations/airports, finding way through terminals an waiting, actual travel time, finding way through new place to hotel and so forth. So if a train ride is estimated at 2 hours, you should probably add on at least another 2 hours (more like 3 or 4 extra hours if flying) to make all these connections.
Your proposed itinerary:
April 6: arrive London
April 7: London
April 8: travel to Paris
April 9: Paris
April 10: travel to Lucerne
April 11: Lucerne
April 12: travel to Geneva, fly to Venice
April 13: Venice
April 14: travel to Rome
April 15: Rome
April 16: fly to Barcelona
April 17: Barcelona
April 18: fly to Madrid
April 19: Madrid
April 20: fly home
For your proposed itinerary, you are traveling very other day, and you might have a day and a half of quality time in each location. You are correct in calling this plan "intense." If something goes wrong (transit strike, flight cancellation) in a tight itinerary such as this, you plan could go up in smoke, so do look into alternatives
It will be important to check on opening and closing times for the sights you hope to visit in each city. Many places have midday closing times, or are closed on Sundays or Mondays. Also check for holidays in each country, which might change opening times or transit schedules. It would be a shame to discover that a major place of interest to you in a particular city was closed on the one day you had to visit.
Your proposed itinerary:
April 6: arrive London
April 7: London
April 8: travel to Paris
April 9: Paris
April 10: travel to Lucerne
April 11: Lucerne
April 12: travel to Geneva, fly to Venice
April 13: Venice
April 14: travel to Rome
April 15: Rome
April 16: fly to Barcelona
April 17: Barcelona
April 18: fly to Madrid
April 19: Madrid
April 20: fly home
For your proposed itinerary, you are traveling very other day, and you might have a day and a half of quality time in each location. You are correct in calling this plan "intense." If something goes wrong (transit strike, flight cancellation) in a tight itinerary such as this, you plan could go up in smoke, so do look into alternatives
It will be important to check on opening and closing times for the sights you hope to visit in each city. Many places have midday closing times, or are closed on Sundays or Mondays. Also check for holidays in each country, which might change opening times or transit schedules. It would be a shame to discover that a major place of interest to you in a particular city was closed on the one day you had to visit.
Feb 9th, 2013, 08:41 AM
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I am so very lucky that I asked for everyone's help! Even reviewing some of the different options I can honestly feel my blood pressure dropping. You guys are truly experts in what you do and my trip will truly thank you! I am honored that you responded and I can feel the frustration and confusion leaving! Yay! With regards to my initial itinerary, I was hoping to do night trains, so spend the whole day in the city and travel by night. So I would leave London on the 9th, Paris on the 11th, Lucerne on the 13th, Venice on the 15th, Rome on the 17th, Barcelona on the 18th and Madrid on the 20th. Even looking at just those travel dates my head is wondering why I even tried in the first place! That is way to much and I need to cut the travel days. It was like 21 hours of travel, so I lost a day in my trip just by being on trains. I really like the comment of "getting lost in a city, " that really put it in perspective. I want to find those cafes and really feel the experiences of the people and culture! I kept getting caught up and stuck in Switzerland. I know it is only due to my crazy planning! I have my heart set on London, Venice/Rome, and Barcelona/Madrid and it is difficult to tie all of those places together. Even writing it together feels clustered. I do not want to turn this trip into a train/plane nightmare. Kevin I really liked your proposed itinerary and kybourbon I really appreciate the reality check. It all comes down to narrowing down my places to see and use the other places in another trip! Thank you all for taking the time to help me sort through my disastrous plans and for helping me focus on a much better trip! I am truly indebted to you for this priceless advice!
Feb 9th, 2013, 09:17 AM
#17
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Glad you are helped by our suggestions.
(If you plan to use night trains in your revised plan, you should check if night trains between the places actually exist. Some of the trips may be too short for night trains, or the night train departs at midnight and arrives very early n the morning--hardly restful.)
(If you plan to use night trains in your revised plan, you should check if night trains between the places actually exist. Some of the trips may be too short for night trains, or the night train departs at midnight and arrives very early n the morning--hardly restful.)
Feb 9th, 2013, 09:56 AM
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Hooray for you! Yes, all the places you were hoping to visit are wonderful in their own way, and the hardest part is making choices. A good place to begin may be by looking at actual train and plane schedules. Sometimes it becomes clear that it is much easier or cheaper to get to one location than another so it sort of makes the choice for you.
And then you just have to know you'll come back someday. You still won't see everything in that trip, or ten more trips, but you will have many wonderful memories. Half the fun of a trip like this is the planning. Enjoy!
And then you just have to know you'll come back someday. You still won't see everything in that trip, or ten more trips, but you will have many wonderful memories. Half the fun of a trip like this is the planning. Enjoy!
Feb 9th, 2013, 10:32 AM
#20
Yes - I'd forget about the night trains -maybe one just for the experience. But night after night of fitful sleep (or possibly none) will wear you out worse than the jet lag. Plus on some of your routes there is no through train so you have to change trains in the middle of the night.
"<i>I have my heart set on London, Venice/Rome, and Barcelona/Madrid</i>"
Then do that -- it would be doable but it will still be very rushed. The only trains would be between Rome/Venice and Barcelona/Madrid -- so no sleeper trains would be involved.
This is one option: London Apr 6- 9, Fly to either Venice or Rome the morning of the 10th, Apr 10 - 15 divided between Rome & Venice, Morning of Apr 16 fly to Barcelona. Morning of Apr 18 train to Madrid. Apr 20 fly home.
"<i>I have my heart set on London, Venice/Rome, and Barcelona/Madrid</i>"
Then do that -- it would be doable but it will still be very rushed. The only trains would be between Rome/Venice and Barcelona/Madrid -- so no sleeper trains would be involved.
This is one option: London Apr 6- 9, Fly to either Venice or Rome the morning of the 10th, Apr 10 - 15 divided between Rome & Venice, Morning of Apr 16 fly to Barcelona. Morning of Apr 18 train to Madrid. Apr 20 fly home.
