blh

We have rented a car through AutoEuropeUK for our upcoming trip to France (Oct. 15th). The rate was $100 cheaper than AutoEuropeUS. The rate includes CDW and theft insurance, and you are not allowed to decline it which makes credit card coverage void. The deductibles are quite high, and I have been trying to find out what full coverage would cost. This rental is with Europcar. I have e-mailed Euopcar, but have not received an answer to my question. I would like to know as we can get other insurance before we leave if necessary through TravelGard among others.

My question: Has anyone here had this experience with AE UK and Europcar? Were you able to purchase more insurance and what did it cost? In the past, we have just used our credit card for insurance coverage, but after reading several posts here on how much trouble it was to recover the damages, we would like to have full coverage this trip. Thanks for any information you can share.

AR

We recently hired through these and paid for extra Super CDW. This was at a rate of a few pounds per day (around £2 if I remember correctly). This removed any excess I would have had to pay for any damage. Without the Super CDW the excess was rather large and so I felt happier. I'm a little confused as to how auto insurance works in the US because of previous posts. Why would you want to decline CDW? That would surely mean that you are liable for any damage whatsoever to any car. In Europe, you are not allowed to drive on your own insurance with a hire car. The only insurance I usually decline is the personal injury as this will be covered with your travel insurance. Theft is your own choice, but if something is stolen from the car that does not belong to you (such as car stereo), then your own personal insurance would not cover it.

Patrick

I'm very confused by your comment about declining CDW. We rented from AutoEurope in UK this summer and to make our credit card insurance the primary and take over, we HAD to decline the CDW. Are you sure you didn't misunderstand? Normally if you accept CDW from them then your credit card will not take over. But if you decline the CDW then your credit card becomes your "primary" insurer.
Trust me that is the way it worked for us, as we totalled a car in Wales. One of the things we had to do was provide a copy of our signed contract proving that we DECLINED the CDW from them. This was an issue, because the copy of the copy I sent them couldn't be read to clearly show the initials for declining -- but we did finally get a clear copy from Avis, the firm that AutoEurope used for us.

By the way, you may be smart to pursue the other insurance options. Our accident was on May 26. We're still trying to clear it all with the Visa insurance, but feel confident it will happen some day. We still have an outstanding charge we're hoping to be reimbursed for that is a little over $1000 which Avis charged at the time of the accident for "excess" damage. But they still haven't charged us the total cost of the car which is apparently being billed direct with Visa services (I hope).

PLMN

SlowTrav web site (Italy) has a whole bunch of stuff on why it is better to go through AutoEurope US instead of AutoEurope UK and much of what you write about is covered in the postings.

Good Luck

blh

Thanks for the replies. AR - that sounds like a fair deal if we can get the super CDW for that low a cost. The reason for declining the CDW is that American credit cards cover the CDW if you decline the coverage from the auto rental. However, it can be a hassle to recover as Patrick states in his post.

Patrick, we were told that Auto Europe UK will not allow you to decline the CDW coverage. In fact that is what their website states if I recall. Their coverage is included in their standard rate - I asked if we could decline - Citibank told me they would provide a letter of coverage if they required it - but they stated this was not possible. So, my next option was to get more coverage to cover the deductible. This would be purchased at the time you pick up the car - but I would like to know ahead of time how much it will cost - so I can decide whether to get coverage elsewhere. But I can't get Europcar to respond to my question, and cannot find anything about this on their website.

P_M

Patrick, I'm so sorry to hear about your accident in Wales. A car wreck is one of my worst travel nightmares. I am planning a trip to England/Wales next May and I was wondering if the credit card insurance covers liability as well as damage to the car. I had thought about accepting the CDW just because it would be less of a hassle if something were to happen. Looking back, do you wish you had accepted the CDW? Thanks for any info.

ira

Hi blh,

I checked www.autoeurope.com for a car in France.

It is through Europcar.

The website states
* Rental excludes Collision Damage Waiver. Rental excludes Theft Protection.

You might want to reconsider.

TuckH

To resolve issues like these, on our recent trip we went for this...

http://insurance4carhire.com/index2.asp?p=1&ref=100

Patrick

P_M asked: "Looking back, do you wish you had accepted the CDW?"

Yes. We have rented dozens of times in Europe with Auto Europe and have always taken the full insurance they offer. But this time when confirming the contract on the phone, the guy really questioned why I was doing the full insurance since my US credit card should pay. In a fit of being frugal, I called our CC company (Visa) and went over all the details. We decided to decline and let them do the insurance, saving us something like $100 for the week. If we hadn't had a wreck -- yea, we'd be cheering about the savings. But we did have a wreck and wish, oh how we wish, we had gone with the usual, and walked away without a care in the world. Whenever this all gets resolved, if ever, I will post a total accounting of the entire thing.

Meanwhile, I'm not real sure about all the other liability. The wonderful part of this was that no one was hurt in the least, we weren't even sore the next day, and although we did some minor damage to the back of a beat up utility trailer we smashed into in the roundabout -- they never filed a claim. And somehow, no one else was injured and even more miraculously none of the couple dozen cars and trucks who should have hit us as we were spinning around in the three lanes of traffic in a busy roundabout did!

Let's face it. Insurance is always a total waste of money until you need it.

blh

Yes, Patrick, I agree. And I appreciate your posts regarding your accident and insurance hassels. You have helped me with the decision to get full coverage. Just don't want to worry about it!

I looked at the Europcar website again (for the tenth time) and was able to find a number to call in the US which I just did. I spoke with a rep who was able to tell me that the Super CDW would run about 6E a day - there will still be a 200E deductible, but that is reasonable enough. So unless I find something better, we will plan to get the Super CDW when we pick the car up.

Thanks to everyone who replied. This is a confusing subject - I have been reading for weeks - on Fodors, SlowTrav, etc. Ira, I believe you were looking at AutoEurope US which doesn't include the CDW. The UK site does include it - won't let you book without it. Which would be fine if it didn't have such a high deductible. The US site also has high deductibles if you take the CDW. Of course, you can decline and use the credit card for coverage. But then it can be difficult to settle if you have an accident. The best way may be to decline (if using AE US)and get other insurance as TuckH suggested.

AR

blh - The actual figure may be a few pence difference, but it was certainly not restrictive. I knew that the US system was different from the UK, at least.

jsmith

My one accident in the UK with a Hertz car was settled completely within 5 days of the payment due to Visa. The amount was slightly over $900. Visa and Hertz were excellent in reimbursing me by Emailing and/or faxing all the required documentation.

Assuming I total a $25,000 car and the settlement is made within 4 months, my out of pocket cost would be the interest on $25,000 for 4 months. If I'm getting 2% on my short term money, the cost would be approximately $167.

Your cost by buying the Super CDW would be 200 Euro and 6 Euro per day for ANY accident.

To me it is a no brainer to use the CC insurance. However, if I'm paying 18% on a credit card and it takes 4 months to settle then it's a different story. But if I'm paying 18% on a credit card I should probably be staying home until I pay it off.

Patrick

Jsmith, maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. The full cost of the car in the case of our wreck was never put on the credit card (although they said that it would be). I've assumed it is because the claim is going to Visa services who have kept it off the Visa card. I was also told in one of my many, many, many phone conversations with Visa services that if it was put on the card, I wouldn't be responsible for paying it as I should challenge it immediately as a claim with the Visa insurance. So that really isn't an issue. Regarding that $1000 charge that we long ago paid off and are hoping to get reimbursed -- that's a little more difficult because Avis drags its feet over and over again about providing us with a detailed account of that particular charge. Some of it was for the balance of the rental and some was for excess damage -- they said 600 pounds plus VAT, but I'm not even sure how much the VAT was to get a full credit from VISA. In other words it's hard to get the specifics from AVIS.

The other big problem in getting our claim finalized, is that it has been impossible to get an accident report from the police in Wales. Despite their giving me an indicent number and all the details, Visa Services says the police refuse to give them an accident report because they are not an actual insurance agency. The police have refused to give me a copy because they say that it contains "sensitive" information including names and phone numbers of witnesses whom I could take action against if they gave it to me. And although we've asked Avis as the owner of the car to get one, they have refused to make an attempt to do so, saying it is the responsibility of my insurance company. I don't have an insurance company in this case -- just Visa services who seems unable to get the report. Sound like Catch 22?

blh

jsmith - AutoEuropeUK does not allow me to decline the CDW. Credit cards require you to decline the CDW offered by the rental company in order to provide you with coverage. I do not see that I have a choice - unless I am being given incorrect information by AE UK. I suppose it is possible that I could decline the coverage at the rental desk at Europcar. But I don't know if that is possible. The rate quoted includes the CDW (with a large deductible, of course). They would not quote it without the CDW.

Patrick

In case some of you missed it, here is one of the most valuable posts on this thread. If you have any confusion about the way the AutoEurope UK site works as opposed to the AutoEurope US site, then you would be wise to read this:

"Author: PLMN
Date: 10/02/2004, 10:04 am
Message: SlowTrav web site (Italy) has a whole bunch of stuff on why it is better to go through AutoEurope US instead of AutoEurope UK and much of what you write about is covered in the postings.

Good Luck"

jsmith

Patrick, didn't you complete an accident report with Avis? Wouldn't you, at that time, be given an invoice to cover the $1000 or did you just not keep a copy? Didn't you give a statement to the police and didn't you get or ask for a copy? The Hertz rental agreement has a section telling precisely what to do in case of an accident. Doesn't Avis?

While I don't know that every Visa card is the same, my correspondence with Visa Enhancement Services in 2003 lists Indemnity Insurance Company of North America as the underwriter.

Insurance companies are reluctant to pay claims that aren't the fault of their insured. If you acknowledged fault on the Avis accident report, Avis may have already been paid in full by the insurance company. If you didn't then the insurance company will want a copy of the police report to ascertain degree of liability.

Anyway, I will say no more.

P_M

Patrick, thanks for all of the info. I have always wondered if the CC insurance would really be adequate, and it sounds like it's a huge hassle when an accident happens. Once again, I'm sorry you had this experience and I'm very glad nobody was hurt. You have helped me to make my decision about CDW.

Patrick

I'll try to make it clear. When we had the accident and the police filled out the accident report, I asked for a copy. I was told then that it is NOT the custom and that they could not give us a copy of the accident report as they didn't want us to call and harrass any people listed as witnesses or the owner of the trailer we hit (yea, like we were going to do that). They made it quite clear that to get a copy of the accident report the insurance company needed to contact them. They carefully wrote down the incident number, the address, phone, fax, email, etc. for the police department and gave it to me. As I said, I have since requested it again and they stick with that story.

We were originally to turn the car in at Stansted airport. Instead, we ended up taking the train into Cardiff after the wreck and stayed there as planned for two nights. We went to Avis in Cardiff to file the accident report, and they gave us a copy of that. But there was no final invoice given to us at that time, presumably because they didn't have our paperwork. In fact it was over a month before they charged the CC for the final bill -- and the copy I got was one they emailed me, which of course didn't copy well. They eventually mailed a copy to me here in the states -- but we didn't return to the states for another 8 weeks after the accident, so that accounts for much of the delay.

I don't care what anyone says about getting a copy of the accident report from the police. I firmly told them I wanted one, and I was more firmly told I wasn't going to get one. What was my next step -- to slug the policewoman and end up in jail? I have no idea if refusing to give a copy is a Welsh policy or strictly the policy of the "Heddlu Dyfed-Powys Police", but it was clear there was NO way we were going to get a copy of that police report.

The last time I taked with Visa Services they said they may even waive the requirement for the police report as they have the very complete accident report filled out by Avis (and us). Yes, in that report we made clear it was our fault, so maybe that is the "requirement" you are talking about, and why they will waive the police report requirement -- after all this time. There was never any shadow of a doubt or lack of claim of fault on our part!

I just went through all my correspondance with Visa Enhancement Services and nowhere do they mention any underwriter, so I have no idea who that is. I was almost given the idea that they "self insure", but I couldn't say for sure or not. It's just my contact there said "we can't get the police report because we aren't actually an insurance company".

One of the other long hangups has been that Visa kept saying they needed a complete and itemized estimate of repairs to the vehicle. When I mentioned that they already had a general statement of repairs showing it far exceeded the value of the car and since they had "totalled" the car, that didn't really make sense. He agreed with me, and we haven't heard any more about that.

I also emailed and faxed the police again in August and said since they can't send me a report would they please send a copy to both Avis as the owner of the car (although Avis doesn't seem to care about getting one) and a copy to Visa Services. I provided the incident numbers, addresses, and even contact people, but to my knowledge they still haven't done that either. I did get a return email saying they were forwarding my request to the correct department. But that was the last we've heard, despite two more emails from me.

Can you think of anything I have done wrong Jsmith? I'd like to know how I could have done anything differently. As I've said, I really think it's eventually going to happen, just a ton of red tape getting there.

jsmith

Patrick, I guess I'm just a nicer person to get such good cooperation. Must be my baby blues.

Patrick

You mean you had a wreck in Cross Hands, Wales too? They couldn't have been nicer about the whole thing -- they just made it clear what their policy was. My favorite thing was that my partner who had never been in any wreck before, yet alone such a major one which was obviously his fault, was a real basket case. The policewoman took me aside and said that when we got to a hotel, the first thing I should do is get a couple drinks in him. That was my favorite part! And the people at AVis in Cardiff couldn't have been nicer either -- they kept saying the only important thing was that no one was hurt.
No, it had nothing to do with niceness or cooperation. It just has to do with being very long distance -- not being at home to coordinate things for over two months after the accident, and all the red tape of "policies".