Input on Itinerary for Visit to Bavaria and Austria Fall 2017
Dec 5th, 2016, 07:34 AM
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Input on Itinerary for Visit to Bavaria and Austria Fall 2017
Hi All –
I’m trying to put together an itinerary for a visit to Bavaria and Austria next September or October. I want to avoid Oktoberfest.
I’m worried that I’m trying to fit too much in and that I may be leaving essential stops out. For instance, I don’t see a place in which to fit a visit to Hohenschwangau or Neuschwanstein. Similarly, would it be a huge mistake to visit the area and skip the Salt Mines?
Normally, I like to stay in the same place for at least two or three nights, but in this case, it seems that may not be possible given the number of places we want to visit and the driving distances between them.
Also – does anyone have any particularly strong opinions about whether a late September or mid-October visit would be preferable to the other.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Day 1 – arrive Munich and pick up rental car and drive to Salzburg
Day 2 – Salzburg
Day 3 – Salzburg
Day 4 – drive to Hallstatt; (stop in another lake town en route?); (overnight in Hallstatt)
Day 5 – Hallstatt to Berchtesgaden (overnight in Berchtesgaden)
Day 6 – Berchtesgaden to Mittenwald (overnight Mittenwald)
Day 7 – Visit Partnach Gorge; Ettal Abbey; Oberammergau; Garmisch (overnight Mittenwald)
Day 8 – Mittenwald; other day trips from Mittenwald? (overnight Mittenwald)
Day 9 – Mittenwald to Munich; stop at Wieskirche en route (overnight in Munich) (return rental car?)
Day 10 – Munich (overnight in Munich)
Day 11 – Munich, day trip to Dachau (overnight in Munich)
Day 12 – depart for NY
I’m trying to put together an itinerary for a visit to Bavaria and Austria next September or October. I want to avoid Oktoberfest.
I’m worried that I’m trying to fit too much in and that I may be leaving essential stops out. For instance, I don’t see a place in which to fit a visit to Hohenschwangau or Neuschwanstein. Similarly, would it be a huge mistake to visit the area and skip the Salt Mines?
Normally, I like to stay in the same place for at least two or three nights, but in this case, it seems that may not be possible given the number of places we want to visit and the driving distances between them.
Also – does anyone have any particularly strong opinions about whether a late September or mid-October visit would be preferable to the other.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Day 1 – arrive Munich and pick up rental car and drive to Salzburg
Day 2 – Salzburg
Day 3 – Salzburg
Day 4 – drive to Hallstatt; (stop in another lake town en route?); (overnight in Hallstatt)
Day 5 – Hallstatt to Berchtesgaden (overnight in Berchtesgaden)
Day 6 – Berchtesgaden to Mittenwald (overnight Mittenwald)
Day 7 – Visit Partnach Gorge; Ettal Abbey; Oberammergau; Garmisch (overnight Mittenwald)
Day 8 – Mittenwald; other day trips from Mittenwald? (overnight Mittenwald)
Day 9 – Mittenwald to Munich; stop at Wieskirche en route (overnight in Munich) (return rental car?)
Day 10 – Munich (overnight in Munich)
Day 11 – Munich, day trip to Dachau (overnight in Munich)
Day 12 – depart for NY
Dec 5th, 2016, 08:31 AM
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Day 1-3: I'd not drive a distance like that after a night flight, particularly not over the A8, which between Rosenheim and Salzburg is always crowded and one of the most dangerous legs of the entire Autobahn network. Going by train to Salzburg wouldn't take longer and can be done with a cheap Bayern ticket (taking S8 to Munich East from the airport and a Meridian train from there to Salzburg). Also, a car in Salzburg is of no use (and parking fees ar expensive). So, I'd rent from day 5 to 9.
Dec 5th, 2016, 09:14 AM
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Thanks - I had read elsewhere on the Forums that it was cheaper to rent a car in Germany, but if the parking fees are going to be expensive too, we might as well as rent in Austria since we weren't planning on using the car in Salzburg.
Dec 5th, 2016, 09:38 AM
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You are certainly cramming a lot into a short time!
Are you assuming you'll never be back to this area again? You're not asking this, but if it were my itinerary, I'd cut out about half your stops.
Are you assuming you'll never be back to this area again? You're not asking this, but if it were my itinerary, I'd cut out about half your stops.
Dec 5th, 2016, 09:46 AM
#5
I would take the train to Salzburg (1.5 hours or so); I would not rent the car until I LEFT Salzburg.
Frankly, I would visit Linderhof as opposed to Neuschwanstein (yes, the outside is iconic; the inside is pretty ordinary IMO); with a car you could actually visit the largest of all the Ludwig builds at Herrenchiemsee which is the most eleborately-decorated of the four and the biggest (but the tour only encompasses about 20 rooms).
IN Munich itself you could visit the Residenze or the Nymphenburg.
IMO you do NOT WANT or need a rental car in Munich so you can end up paying to stare at it in the parking lot.
Frankly, I would visit Linderhof as opposed to Neuschwanstein (yes, the outside is iconic; the inside is pretty ordinary IMO); with a car you could actually visit the largest of all the Ludwig builds at Herrenchiemsee which is the most eleborately-decorated of the four and the biggest (but the tour only encompasses about 20 rooms).
IN Munich itself you could visit the Residenze or the Nymphenburg.
IMO you do NOT WANT or need a rental car in Munich so you can end up paying to stare at it in the parking lot.
Dec 5th, 2016, 09:58 AM
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> Neuschwanstein (yes, the outside is iconic; the inside is pretty ordinary IMO)
Well, that is true only if you visit it without previous info. From the perspective of the history of art, N. is way more interesting and important than Linderhof.
Well, that is true only if you visit it without previous info. From the perspective of the history of art, N. is way more interesting and important than Linderhof.
Dec 5th, 2016, 10:22 AM
#7
Don't rent the car in Austria and drop it in Germany. You will incur a large cross-border drop off fee.
Instead, when leaving Salzburg, take the train (or taxi) to Freilassing, Germany (about 10-15 mins at most). Walk or taxi to Europcar on LUDWIG-ZELLER-STRASSE 1 in Freilassing and pick up your car there.
Return the car after dropping your luggage at your hotel in Munich.
No cross-border drop fees involved.
Instead, when leaving Salzburg, take the train (or taxi) to Freilassing, Germany (about 10-15 mins at most). Walk or taxi to Europcar on LUDWIG-ZELLER-STRASSE 1 in Freilassing and pick up your car there.
Return the car after dropping your luggage at your hotel in Munich.
No cross-border drop fees involved.
Dec 5th, 2016, 10:27 AM
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Day 8 – Mittenwald; other day trips from Mittenwald? (overnight Mittenwald)>
Fussen and Mad Ludwig's Neuschwanstein Castle is a possible day trip from Mittenwald- lovely drive thru Austria along edge of Bavarian Alps and then thru the gap along a rushing river to Fussen (also not very far from Weissenkirche)- Germany's most famous castle and to me one of the most exciting interiors- a surprise at every turn. Yes an ersatz medieval castle but a nice one.
Innsbruck would be a natural easier day trip from Mittenwald-nice town for one day.
Fussen and Mad Ludwig's Neuschwanstein Castle is a possible day trip from Mittenwald- lovely drive thru Austria along edge of Bavarian Alps and then thru the gap along a rushing river to Fussen (also not very far from Weissenkirche)- Germany's most famous castle and to me one of the most exciting interiors- a surprise at every turn. Yes an ersatz medieval castle but a nice one.
Innsbruck would be a natural easier day trip from Mittenwald-nice town for one day.
Dec 5th, 2016, 11:18 AM
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Also – does anyone have any particularly strong opinions about whether a late September or mid-October visit would be preferable to the other.>
earlier the better and if into Octoberfest is runs mid-Sep to first few days in October. Even if not into beer it is fun to go into the tents and hear the Oompah bands and take in the show.
days are longer of course in September as well. Weather seems to deteriorate as fall goes on. Earlier if possible.
earlier the better and if into Octoberfest is runs mid-Sep to first few days in October. Even if not into beer it is fun to go into the tents and hear the Oompah bands and take in the show.
days are longer of course in September as well. Weather seems to deteriorate as fall goes on. Earlier if possible.
Dec 5th, 2016, 12:38 PM
#10
From the perspective of the history of art, N. is way more interesting and important than Linderhof.
I'm glad you feel this way about Neuschwanstein. I maintain that the interior is DULL when compared to Linderhof and neither of them can come even close to comparing to the interior of Herrenchiemsee IMO.
The history of art? To each their own.
I'm glad you feel this way about Neuschwanstein. I maintain that the interior is DULL when compared to Linderhof and neither of them can come even close to comparing to the interior of Herrenchiemsee IMO.
The history of art? To each their own.
Dec 5th, 2016, 01:49 PM
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I agree with sla019= and each Ludwig castle to me is charming inside and out in their own way. Been to them all and loved Neuschwanstein the most- again read up on its history and it makes it all the more intriguing - but Dukey is right to each their own and one's opinion is just as valid as others.
Dec 5th, 2016, 11:11 PM
#12
I love these destinations 
Hallstatt was a daytrip for us from Salzburg (on public transport, but with a car, you'll be there so much more quickly, it's delightful, but tiny, am sure you can stop off somewhere else first).
Berchtesgaden, presumably you will do the Koenigsee cruise, and do walk the Obersee trail to the end, pictures here
https://flic.kr/s/aHskfL3qzw
beautiful turquoise lake. There's also some Mittenwald and Hallstatt shots in that album.
Some walks in/near Mittenwald from our last trip (July 2016) plus the Partnachklamm
https://flic.kr/s/aHskDja7Fy
Mittenwald is truly blessed with walking trails.
Walking from Tegelberg summit cablecar station to Neuschwanstein, a really nice 2 hour trail (Reitweg trail), avoids tourists, at least until you get to the bridge. We didn't go inside, just enjoyed seeing it in that amazing setting. Really nice to arrive from behind castle, via forest and mountain vistas
https://flic.kr/s/aHskf6uyHF
and totally different experience to the mass of humanity on the usual route up. We had a night in Fuessen, it's a pretty town.
Hallstatt was a daytrip for us from Salzburg (on public transport, but with a car, you'll be there so much more quickly, it's delightful, but tiny, am sure you can stop off somewhere else first).
Berchtesgaden, presumably you will do the Koenigsee cruise, and do walk the Obersee trail to the end, pictures here
https://flic.kr/s/aHskfL3qzw
beautiful turquoise lake. There's also some Mittenwald and Hallstatt shots in that album.
Some walks in/near Mittenwald from our last trip (July 2016) plus the Partnachklamm
https://flic.kr/s/aHskDja7Fy
Mittenwald is truly blessed with walking trails.
Walking from Tegelberg summit cablecar station to Neuschwanstein, a really nice 2 hour trail (Reitweg trail), avoids tourists, at least until you get to the bridge. We didn't go inside, just enjoyed seeing it in that amazing setting. Really nice to arrive from behind castle, via forest and mountain vistas
https://flic.kr/s/aHskf6uyHF
and totally different experience to the mass of humanity on the usual route up. We had a night in Fuessen, it's a pretty town.
Dec 6th, 2016, 12:54 AM
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> I maintain that the interior is DULL when compared to Linderhof and neither of them can come even close to comparing to the interior of Herrenchiemsee IMO
I certainly don't want to convince or even proselityze you, but I'm confident that that attitude had changed if you had the opportunity to read a bit about N. beforehand.
First of all, it's true that the interior, compared against Linderhof and Herrnchiemsee, is rather simple. After all, the building reproduces the spirit of a medieval, not of a baroque castle. Secondly, it's just that interior which makes Neuschwanstein an outstanding example of European Historism. Contrary to Linderhof and Herrnchiemsee, it is not a simple imitation of a single style epoche but an imagination of a medieval »ideal castle« that synthesizes the »best« social and political characteristics of different epoches and regions of the Middle Ages. The throne room, e.g., is an hommage to the absolutism of Byzanz, where, very desirable in Ludwig II. view, both the political and the ecclesiastical power were united in the person of the emperor (no pope interfering in political affairs, no annoying parliament). Other rooms depict an ideal knights society from the perspective of Richard Wagners Tannhäuser and Lohengrin.
Some years ago, I had the opportunity to study the Riedl and Dollmann (the castle's architects) archive, where that ideology is expressed very clearly. The ecclectisims of the interior is the necessary consequence of that »ideal Middle Age« ideology, which servs both as an instrument of escapism for L. II and as a propagadistic anti-modell against the real republicanism and constitutionalism of his time (an ideology the Wittelsbach familiy had tried to make reality in their short-lived rulership of Greece 1831-1862).
Saying that, I certainly don't want to lure people into a visit of. N. On the contrary, every one who doesn't go gives some relief both to the suffering building and to visitors with a deeper interest in (cultural) history than those who are cultivating their »o look at mad Ludwigs fake castle« attitude and who, sadly, don't get much enlightenment by the way too short tour and by stressed and mostly uneducated guides either.
I certainly don't want to convince or even proselityze you, but I'm confident that that attitude had changed if you had the opportunity to read a bit about N. beforehand.
First of all, it's true that the interior, compared against Linderhof and Herrnchiemsee, is rather simple. After all, the building reproduces the spirit of a medieval, not of a baroque castle. Secondly, it's just that interior which makes Neuschwanstein an outstanding example of European Historism. Contrary to Linderhof and Herrnchiemsee, it is not a simple imitation of a single style epoche but an imagination of a medieval »ideal castle« that synthesizes the »best« social and political characteristics of different epoches and regions of the Middle Ages. The throne room, e.g., is an hommage to the absolutism of Byzanz, where, very desirable in Ludwig II. view, both the political and the ecclesiastical power were united in the person of the emperor (no pope interfering in political affairs, no annoying parliament). Other rooms depict an ideal knights society from the perspective of Richard Wagners Tannhäuser and Lohengrin.
Some years ago, I had the opportunity to study the Riedl and Dollmann (the castle's architects) archive, where that ideology is expressed very clearly. The ecclectisims of the interior is the necessary consequence of that »ideal Middle Age« ideology, which servs both as an instrument of escapism for L. II and as a propagadistic anti-modell against the real republicanism and constitutionalism of his time (an ideology the Wittelsbach familiy had tried to make reality in their short-lived rulership of Greece 1831-1862).
Saying that, I certainly don't want to lure people into a visit of. N. On the contrary, every one who doesn't go gives some relief both to the suffering building and to visitors with a deeper interest in (cultural) history than those who are cultivating their »o look at mad Ludwigs fake castle« attitude and who, sadly, don't get much enlightenment by the way too short tour and by stressed and mostly uneducated guides either.
Dec 6th, 2016, 03:41 AM
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Salzburg to Hallstatt is only 1:20 minutes and Salzburg to Berchtesgaden is only 40 minutes so both could be done as day trips from Salzburg. That would take 2 moves out of your trip and condense it to just 3 hotel stays and "moves". That convenience may make up for the additional cost of renting the car in Munich at the start of the trip to make it all possible.
Dec 6th, 2016, 04:18 AM
#15
If your Munich dates are around Oktoberfest you will pay dearly for hotels. I love Oktoberfest and if you go early in the day it is not as crowded. Great food and atmosphere.
I would stay in Garmish rather than Mittenwald, little more to see and do at night. Mittenwald is rather sleepy.
I would take train also as much as possible.
I have to agree with Dukey on the house's of Ludwig. If you go in September the garden's at Linderhof are beautiful. House tour was ok. Neuschwanstein was not worth the drive imo.
I would stay in Garmish rather than Mittenwald, little more to see and do at night. Mittenwald is rather sleepy.
I would take train also as much as possible.
I have to agree with Dukey on the house's of Ludwig. If you go in September the garden's at Linderhof are beautiful. House tour was ok. Neuschwanstein was not worth the drive imo.
Dec 6th, 2016, 08:54 AM
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Thanks!
Aramis - when you give those times, is that based on public transportation? I would love to take out some of the hotel changes, although everyone seems to recommend night in Hallstatt after the big tour groups leave.
Aramis - when you give those times, is that based on public transportation? I would love to take out some of the hotel changes, although everyone seems to recommend night in Hallstatt after the big tour groups leave.
