Susan_Muglich

We are going to be in Europe for 6 mo. The last potential 3 mo. will be in England, Scotland and Ireland. We're in our late 60's and not too interested in hiking but site seeing and food. Our grown children will be with us for awhile and we will be arriving from Amsterdam at Gatwick. Planning to pick up a car, visit Stonehenge and then likely staying in Upton Noble for 3 days in early Jan. See Bath, etc. Then onto the Cotswolds (where we've been before 20 yr. ago though) for another 3 days to visit cute villages, Stratford, etc., then back to Gatwick, maybe visiting Oxford and Windsor Castle on the way, to drop the car and take a train into London for 4 days with our kids. They fly back home then and we're on our own. I'm thinking we'll stay at least 2 days more in London. But the rest of our trip is up in the air. Since it will be Jan., I'm wondering where, if any place, we should visit on our way to Scotland. We've been to York on our earlier trip.

If there's no especially interesting spot worth a Jan. visit, then I think we will take a train from London to either Edinburgh or Glasgow. Likely rent cars for the rest of Scotland and then again in Ireland. We can stay until end of Mar. but, having been on the road since Sept. by that point, I'm thinking about maybe 10-15 days in both Scotland and Ireland. Given the time of year, any suggestions about what places we should or should not try to see?

nytraveler

At that time of year I would focus on cities and things that can be done indoors, since while you may get some mild days when being outdoors is pleasant there are going to be quite a few days with cold/sleet/snow.

Also many sights in the countryside are going to be closed for the season - or perhaps only open weekends. That time of year you need to double check before heading out to see any specific sights.

If you have not been to the Roman remains/architectural sights of Hadrian's Wall - and if they open that time of year - I would definitely stop there. Good for at least a full day. I know you said you have been to York but have to been to the other sights nearby (Castle Howard and other large houses)?

If I were you I would get a MIchelin Green guide - which is very thorough and also tells you how long to expect to take to see various sights.

janisj

>>then back to Gatwick,<<

Why? There is no reason you need to return to Gatwick. If you are going to Windsor -- just return the car at LHR and head in to London from there (instead of driving around the parking lot otherwise known as the M25)

>>Likely rent cars for the rest of Scotland<<

A driving tour in Scotland could be VERY problematic -- or not. Could be blizzards -- or not. In Jan/early Feb I would plan a city-centric trip totally sans car. Edinburgh, Glasgow, maybe Liverpool, maybe Manchester. Not only will the weather not be in your favor, quite a few of the rural sites/castles/stately homes will be closed for the season.

By late Feb/Mar it could still be cold/wet, but less chance of full on winter storms. If it was me -- I'd fly from London to Dublin or Cork or Shannon and do the Ireland bits next. Then fly to GLA or EDI and finish w/ Scotland in March.

hetismij2

If you have been on the road since September, and arrive in the UK in January you are aware of the Schengen rules?

What you could do for a week of your time is rent a cottage, stock up with food and logs and enjoy a week of downtime, certainly as part of such a long trip. I would perhaps head for Devon or Cornwall or the west coast of Wales (or Ireland) and enjoy some local walking and relaxing.

You will certainly have to build in some bad weather contingencies into whatever you plan.

Susan_Muglich

Thanks janisj for the info about Gatwick. Will plan accordingly. And thanks for your thoughts on Scotland. Why do you suggest Ireland before Scotland?

hetismij2...I thought I'd looked at the Schengen agreement a while ago. Guess I mis-read it or things have changed. We've planned to be in Italy for 83 days. Then Austria 4 days, Munich 4 days, Prague 5 days, Berlin 17 days, and Amsterdam 4 days. Then on to London, Scotland and Ireland where I understand it won't be an issue. So, if this somehow doable, even with a Visa since it reads to me like we can only spend 90 days in any Schengen countries in any 6 mo.??

jamikins

You will need to limit your time in schengen countries to 90 days. Right now you are almost a month over that so will need to cut back somewhere.

thursdaysd

Without a visa you get 90 days in the Schengen zone, what you are proposing will require a visa. Also, why are you doing the UK last rather than southern Europe? It will in all probability be cold and grey and damp (certainly was when I lived there), and it will certainly get dark early. The further north the colder and darker.

BigRuss

This is all rather incomprehensible. You're going to be in Europe for six months and the UK/Ireland for 3 but of the other three months you'll spend 83 days in Italy and another 34 days in other Schengen zone countries for a total of 117 days, all while hoping you don't get sent back to the US for overstaying Schengen?

Best to do what the US DOS says: "If you . . . plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa."

janisj

>>Why do you suggest Ireland before Scotland?<<

Because Ireland will be wet but you'll be less likely to be snowed in - which is a definitely possibility in Scotland in January. By March Scotland <i>could</i> be warmer (or not)

And everyone mentioning Schengen is right - I didn't even notice your dates. You cannot stay more than 90 days in Schengen so you will have to leave the Continent earlier than your current plan.

Underhill

The coldest I have ever been was on a very rainy day in Inverness, Scotland. The cold rain soaked right through my mac in about 5 minutes. That's when I learned why our hosts were so fond of whisky.

Tony2phones

Start in Ireland, then Scotland, After that head to warmer dryer climes and return to The UK for March.

Or do UK including Scotland, head for warmer climes and do Ireland in March things gear up a little around St Patricks and beyond.

Susan_Muglich

I've now read about long term national multi-entry visas. It looks like we could possibly get one for Italy which would allow us to spend our planned 83 days there but then we would be allowed to visit other Schengen countries:

If you hold a long-stay visa or a residence permit from one of the 22 EU countries that are in the Schengen area, you can move freely in this area for up 3 months during a six-month period of time on the basis of your long-stay visa or residence permit and a valid travel document.

The only other possible quandary is that we might be required to fly back out of Italy. We already have purchased our flight there, landing in Milan. I'm going to contact our local consulate and see what they have to stay about this visa.

Our kids are flying Wow Air so they could fly back from Dublin or Edinburgh or London, so guess I'll reconsider this.

nytraveler

Agree - not only a good idea to do the northern most parts first to avoid the worst of winter - that will also help you avoid the worst of the heat in the southern areas - definitely end inItaly. While snow is possible south of the Alps it's quite rare and usually melts quickly.

Granted you can get bad weather in Scotland anytime (the day we arrived in July in Edinburgh it was about 45 windy and raining sideways - although it had been 80 when we left London 4 days previously).

janisj

>>I've now read about long term national multi-entry visas. <<

I would not count on qualifying for a long stay visa.

Susan_Muglich

We managed to get get first class to Milan for half the points we initially had thought we'd have to spend so probably not willing to rearrange that part. And I've already reserved spots thru VRBO or Airbnb for everything through Berlin. So...guess I'll contact the consulate tomorrow and see if that is an option or not and then re-group. This has been my/our retirement dream for many years. Never thought...having heard many stories of people doing similar trips that it would be an issue.

jamikins

It is very much an issue and with the refugee crisis in Europe it is a very hot topic in Europe right now. Be sure you stay within the rules or you could face hefty fines and get barred from future entry.

A long term visa is most likely not worth the time and effort (they aren't easy to get) for an extra 34 days. Adjusting your time to meet the requirements is probably much more realistic.

thursdaysd

Most of the Balkan countries, plus Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine are still outside Schengen, so you could visit them.