You need to buy a paper ticket that is from a national rail station - you can also use these on the tube. Note there is no longer a 3 day option - they offer 1 day and 7 day passes.

If you do a search on this forum for oyster you will get lots of info.

Oh definitely dont get a London Pass - very overpriced

http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/

Forget the London Pass.

How long are you in London and how many of the 2for1's do you plan to visit? If you are only using 2for1's on one day, you can buy an Oyster when you get to town w/ some PAYG money on it and then on the day you need the paper travel card buy a 1-day pass at any train station. Most of the trains stations also have tube stations attached but you need to buy the paper travelcard in the actual train station.

If I buy the travelcard from the Visit Britain tourist info will it be eligible for 2 for 1 coupons? No, the Travelcard must be bought at a National Rail operated train station

Does National Rail operate the underground? No, National Rail are responsible for the trains & most train stations, TfL are responsible for Tube stations & some train stations.

How are you arriving & leaving London?

Thanks for the responses but I'm still confused! We are coming and leaving from Gatwick by train (I assume that is the fastest/easiest method). The things on our list to see are the Tower, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's, possibly Hampton Court or Kew Gardens and of course a number of the free museums and galleries. We will have 3 and a half days in London (I know it will be rushed!)So do I understand that I just buy a one day travelcard each day and then I will be eligible for the discounts? And where do I buy the travelcard if I can't buy it at a tube station to be eligible for the discounts? Thanks for the help?

Problem solved! Buy a R-T train ticket Gatwick/London/Gatwick. That will be a paper ticket w/ a national rail logo on it and will cover every day you are in London. So you are set for the 2 for 1 offers. No need to faff around w/ daily travel cards or special passes.

Then once you get into London -- say at Victoria -- go into the tube station and buy Oyster cards w/ pay as you go ££ on it to use for your travel around London.

janisj -- I was having the same questions about the 2-1 deals. We fly into Heathrow. So if we buy RT tickets from Heathrow to London, will that be a National Rail paper ticket as well? That will solve the problem. Thanks for the insight! London travel seems more complicated than Rome!

reddy2go2: Doesn't work the same from heathrow. The only trains from LHR go to Paddington which isn't convenient for most hotels/sightseeing. The tube or a pre-booked car service are normally the best ways to get in from LHR.

I personally would not take the train in from LHR just for the 2 for 1's (unless I was staying AT Paddington, but in my case -- that wouldn't happen.)

The reason it works for travelmere is Gatwick -- from which a regular train is the best/fastest/cheapest way to get in to London.

Janisj: got it. We are going to get an Oyster card each at LHR and then get a travel card for 3 of our 5 days in London. We plan to see many sites and plan on using a 2:1 deal on most of them. Never knew London travel was so complicated! Was thinking of loading 20 pounds each on the Oyster to cover incidental travel (LHR to Victoria/Pimlico, early train to Paddington for trip to Bath etc.). Sounds about right?

"Never knew London travel was so complicated! "

The only reason it's complicated is because of the 2-4-1 offers - which are nothing to do with the people who are responsible for travel within London.

It could be simpler but then you wouldn't get the 2-4-1 offers - which would you prefer?

I get the impression that the 2 for 1 offers are really for people like me who take the train into London from other parts of the UK.

MissPrism you are correct. I believe they are to encourage people to travel into London from outside London by train. Tourists from outside the UK visiting London are able to take advantage of them as well, but it does add a layer of complexity for them in transit options.

Is there a site where I can see which stations are operated by the national rail ?

These are the national rail stations in central London:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/crossing_london.html#terminals

nationalrail.co.uk

I found it a great savings that our national rail tickets to and from Canterbury from London allowed us to use the 2 for 1 while in London. I thought we would need to show an active travel card for London to get the 2 for 1. Our vouchers were accepted even though we had gone to Canterbury at the beginning of our visit. Deborah

The main National Rail stations in central London are Paddington, Euston, Kings Cross, St. Pancras, Liverpool Street, London Bridge, Waterloo, Charing Cross and Victoria. There are others, but if you stay in central London, you will be close to one of the nine above. Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Fenchurch Street, Moorgate and Marylebone are smaller and their hours may be more limited.

The London Pass is crap. The only thing it really covers that you can't get anywhere else is St. Paul's. But the 2for1 offers for the Tower and the Cabinet War Rooms offset that. Plus, the London Pass is unnecessary at the National Portrait Gallery, the National Gallery, the British Museum, the British Library, the Imperial War Museum, the V&A, the Natural History Museum, the Tate Gallery, the Tate Modern . . . wow! that's a ton of top-end museums for no entry fee.

We will be using the 2for1 offers on two days of our stay, is it possible to buy single tickets in advance - ie buy them today for use two or three days later?

" is it possible to buy single tickets in advance - ie buy them today for use two or three days later?"

Yesish. You can ask for railway tickets to be postdated: you'd be mad to buy single tube tickets under any circumstances, but if you were that mad they couldn't be postdated.

But why would you want to do this?

We have Oysters for general use and would be buying the National Rail paper travel card for use on the days we what the 2for1's. I want to know if I can buy those tickets in advance rather than going to a railway station on the day. Nothing to do with the tube.

So you don't want to buy single tickets in advance. You want to buy several one-day Railcards in advance.

Which is fine.

Yes, that's it, I got the terminology wrong.

Thanks, that will make life easier.

Yes you can buy a one day travelcard a day in advance or more..it makes sense...on a day your oyster PAYG will cap (it caps after the third tube ride of the day during the 4th)....make a stop at a national rail station to pick up th following day's 1 day travelcards and on that day, use the one day travelcard you bought. This way, it costs you nothing extra to make a side trip to a national rail station.

Great, thanks so much for the explanation. That's what I was hoping to do to save time.

Many thanks so much for everyone's help.

Sorry if I'm being dense but I'm very confused. I thought that travel cards could be used for both rail and tube rides. I see everyone saying to buy an oyster for getting around. If I buy the travel card at a rail station for the 2 for 1 deals, can't I also use it for the tube? Also, what is meant by "the day your oyster PAYG will cap"? I thought oysters would be active as long as you had money on them?

As for the 2 for 1 deals, do you have to print them out from the website or do they have a booklet with coupons at the station when you buy the travel card? The ones on the website seem to only allow you to get 3 offers and they expire in April.

"Cap" means there's a maximum amount that will be charged to your Oyster PAYG account on the card (depending on whether traveling at peak or not and what zones traveling in). After (if) you reach said cap, then no matter how many more tube/bus rides you take that day, there is no more charge.

Look at alanRow's post above. The terminology (train/tube/rail/etc.) can be confusing to me, the not-public-transportation-using American. But see if this helps; it's what I've figured out from my few trips: If you are going be to traveling on a TRAIN (what we think of as a train--above ground, city to city), the National Rail runs those and you will have to purchase tickets for those rides, those to/from London outside of the Greater London area. TFL (Transport for London) runs several "things" in the London area--mostly the Tube but also the buses and the Light Railway and some National Rail lines inside the Greater London area. For those you can use the Oyster and/or the travel cards. (or a travel card "loaded" onto an Oyster--which is, you are probably gathering, just a device, a plastic card, not really an account or program or something.) The confusion for me concerned the station thing--some stations in London are both TFL AND National Rail stations, mostly the bigger ones. Most Tube stations (including the one at Heathrow) are NOT also National Rail stations. If you want to use 2for1 deals, you will have to have the travel card issued by the National Rail entity, which means you have to go to a station that also serves the National Rail.

Does that help or just roil the mud more?!

I printed off more than 3 vouchers; don't remember that restriction. Check back right before you leave; they should be updated with correct date.

1. To the best of my knowledge, 3 day travelcards are no longer offered. They died about 2 or 3 years ago.

2. A one day paper travelcard issued by one of the national railroad companies is valid on all tube and national rail services within the limits of its validity. Thus a 1 day paper travelcard for zones 1 & 2 is valid on all rail and tube servicdes within zones 1 & 2 and all buses.

3. Tfl does offer 1 day paper travelcards with the exact same validity as those issued by the national rail companies but they look different and are not valid for the 2 for 1's.

4. By capping, which is the big selling point of oyster cards and PAYF it is meant you will never spend more for the services you use than the cost of a 1 day travelcard but if you spend less, it is not raised to the cost of a 1 day travelcard. Maybe if I give you an example you cam imderstamd/

You are using PAYG on an oyster card. You start out at non peak hour (for zones 1 & 2 it means after 0930 on a weekday but all weekend). The first tube ride of the day will cost you £1.90 (assume for this discussion you remain in zone 1)...the next tube ride of the day, another £1.90 so your charge for the day is now £3.80...you now take a bus ride, cost is £1.30 so your outlay is now £5.10 now you're finished for the day and on your way home on the tube...another £1.90 making it a £7 day. Right? No wrong...since all your travel for the day was within zones 1 & 2 (actually zone 1), the price cap for the day is £6.60 so only £1.50 would be deducted for the last trip making your total outlay £6.60. Any further tube or bus rides that day will be free. The advantage is that you don't have to start out each day and make a decision...the computers are programmed so you won't be charged more than the cap. If you don't use oyster, your real only alternative if you're going to take more than one tube ride during a day is to buy a 1 day paper travelcard up front and if you only make 1 round trip on the tube, your choice is £8 in cash or £6.60 for a 1 day travelcard...with oyster, that one round trip on the tube (again assuming you stick to zone 1 which contains almost all the landmarks a visitor would want to see on a day of general sightseeing followed say by a trip to the theatre) that one round trip would be £3.80, a significant saving.

Also, if you only use buses on a given day, cash bus fares are £2.20 each (no free transfers BTW)...the same fare with an oyster card is £1.30 but here's the catch...if you only use buses in the course of a day, the fares for the day will cap at £4...there is no one day bus ticket available!

As I say, if the 2 for 1's are not a consideration, oyster is the way to go (there are a few national rail services which don't yet take oyster)...but the 2 for 1's complicate matters as this thread has shown.

"As for the 2 for 1 deals, do you have to print them out from the website or do they have a booklet with coupons at the station when you buy the travel card? The ones on the website seem to only allow you to get 3 offers and they expire in April."

Pre-print them. The offers run out periodically -- but have always been renewed for the next season. So assuming that happens again this Spring, just wait a few weeks and the summer offers will be there.

I arrive at Heathrow and need to catch the tube to Kings Cross. I want to buy a 7 day travel card, that can be used with the 2 for 1 vouchers. I know this can only be done from one of the main railway stations. Can I get a friend to buy the travel card from a station in advance, so he can send it to me - I can then use it immediately I arrive for my journey to Kings Cross? Otherwise, I will have to pay over 5 pounds to get into London, before I am able to buy my travel card at the main station. If you can buy them in advance, how far in advance are you able to do that?

Yes you should be able to do that. Just ensure they ask for it to start on the day you arrive.

The answer is somewhat complicated and may not be economical. You've got to understand, London Underground is on a zone system. Basically there are a bunch of concentric zones with central London in zone 1 and as you go further out, other zones. Heathrow is in zone 6. For a paper travelcard to be valid by itserlf for the trip in from the airport, you would need a 7 day zone 1-6 travelcard which is quite expensive (check the tfl web site). Their whole system is set up with reasonable fares for what are called extension tickets on oyster cards where you pay the fare, via the oyster card's payg feature even if you put a zone 1-2 (the one almost all tourists need and use) on it. In effect the extension fare is listed as the oyster fare for a trip from zone 3 to zone 6 with the travelcard covering the portion of the trip in zones 1 & 2.

If you have a paper travelcard for zones 1 & 2, you have to buy a cash fare for zones 6 to 3 which are still over £4....do you intend to make more than 3 trips every day? Will there be a day or two in there where yo might only make one round trip via tube on a given day? Will you be making other trips outside zones 1 & 2?

So while your plan does have merit and shows you are thinking outside the box and congratulations for coming up with something, you would still be nicked for the trip to and from Heatrhrow as if you had no travelcard at all (cash fares on London underground of which extension fares would be such if you don't have an oyster card, are deliberately set unreasonably high to discourage people from using cash).

While I understand the rationale behind the system as it has evolved with the 2 for 1's (to encourage pope to use railroad to travel to London, the periphery are the tourists sort of bending the rules, not that it's illegal or anhything), the whole set up of the different approaches paper tickets vs. oyster cards is sort of complicated.

Can I get a friend to buy the travel card from a station in advance, so he can send it to me - I can then use it immediately I arrive for my journey to Kings Cross? Otherwise, I will have to pay over 5 pounds to get into London,

You could, but why bother? It might get lost in the post, it might not arrive in time, your friend might buy the wrong card.

Given that most tourists only need a Zone 1-2 Travelcard costing around £29.20 buying a Zone 1-6 Travelcard to cover travel to/from Heathrow at a cost of £53.40 is overkill and means you end up paying more to "save" money.

Just pay the single fare

Sorry for another travelcard/2 for 1 question...

Am I correct in thinking that if I want to use the 2 for 1 deal at 3 different sites on 3 different days, I would need to purchase three 1 day travel cards? And would I be able to purchase all 3 at the same time? If I was to visit all 3 sites on 1 day, would I just need 1 travel card?

Thanks!

Sloane_428: How many days are you in London all together? If more than 4 days, you can get a paper 7 day travelcard and it will let you use the 2for1's on any of the 7 days.

But if you are only in London for 3 days, then you'll need a separate paper daily travelcard for each day you want to do 2for1's. You can visit as many sites per day as you can squeeze in.

Yes you can buy post dated travelcards.

I will be in London for 5 days. But do I want to buy a travelcard for 7 days when I can only use it for 5? If I buy a travelcard, will I need an oyster card as well? I plan on walking a lot.

"I will be in London for 5 days. But do I want to buy a travelcard for 7 days when I can only use it for 5?"

generally - for 5 days, a 7-day travelcard works out about the same or a little cheaper than 5 1-day travelcards and is definitely more convenient than getting five different cards. If you have a 7-day paper travelcard you won't need an Oyster too.

Friends traveling to London for a 5 day stay. There are six in the party so the 2x1 tickets would be a great savings. They will arrive at Heathrow and take the Express to Paddington and return to Heathrow 5 days later. Will that train travel qualify them for the 2x1 vouchers?

Thank you.

"Will that train travel qualify them for the 2x1 vouchers?"

No. But what's the point of worrying?

You can't exist in London without some kind of Tube/bus pass (hell: I can't live without my Oyster and I don't even live there), and the 1 or 7 day Travelcard is just as good value as the straightforward PAYG Oyster everyone within 100 miles of the place regards as an essential tool for everyday living.

Flanneruk: Confused by your reply. From the DayOut web site:

What kinds of train tickets are valid for this promotion?

2FOR1 and special offers/admission vouchers are available with almost ANY type of train tickets issued to London (or to the Attraction Destination) on normal 'paper' ticket stock (i.e. not electronic or 'smartcard' but for exceptions see below) and valid on the day you wish to the visit the attraction, theatre, or restaurant, e.g. National Rail issued tickets includeOff-Peak, Super Off-Peak, Travelcard, Advance, Anytime, Season Tickets and various promotional travel tickets that may be issued from time to time, etc...

By way of recognition most 'paper' rail travel tickets show the Double-Arrow (or 'crows-foot') National Rail logo, then you're safe to assume it is valid. If you are unsure in any way please ask at your local staffed National Rail station.

London Underground issued tickets (including Travelcards issued by London Underground ticket offices and agents) are NOT valid and will not be accepted at any attraction.

Can I use an Oyster card?

No, the 2FOR1 London Attractions partnersDO NOT recognise Oyster Cards as being valid accompanying rail tickets.

Can I use Underground/tube only tickets and/or London Bus only tickets?

No, except as shown below.

However if your travel ticket has an element of National Rail/train company travel included, e.g. any type of 'paper' Travelcard, train/tube inclusive ticket and is issued by a National Rail operated ticket office, then the answer is Yes. By way of recognition if your travel ticket shows the Double-Arrow (or 'crows-foot') National Rail logo you're generally safe to assume it is valid. If you are unsure in any way please ask at your local staffed National Rail station.

TC . . . The Heathrow Express train does not qualify for the 2for1 offers. (neither does the cheaper Heathrow Connect)

In any case -- Are you VERY sure you want to take HEX?? It would be hugely expensive for 6 and only gets you to Paddington which is not near much. Unless you are staying right AT Paddington (which I normally wouldn't) the HEX is basically useless.

For 6 adults RT on the Hex would cost £204/$330 (a little less if there are any children under age 15) That is insane.

Where are you staying?

janisj; I checked the HEX web site and you are right, the cost is 108GBP each way for 6 adults + taxi from Paddington to the house -- Holland Park Villas. They could take a car service for about 80GBP each way + tip. It would be a marginal savings. However, if the HEX qualifies them for the 2x1 tickets the expendeture would be worthwhile. It is very confusing. The National Rail web site does indeed list the HEX as one of their trains and there are 2x1 coupons linked to the HEX section. I always take the train in from Heathrow and find it convenient. But then, I'm only one. So confusing.

It does not qualify!!!!!

Are the discounts you are seeing related to the London pass?? If so you have to buy the London pass to get those discounts and the London pass is about the worst deal ever so don't do that!

Unless there has been a change the HEX does not qualify...can you post the link where it shows a link to 2for1 deals?

The national rail site lists it as part of your journey but it is not owned by national rail as far as I know and the HEX website is not branded as national rail. I believe it is a separate company and therefore does not qualify.

The purpose if the 2for1 is to encourage brits to travel to London and is not targeted to tourists. You as a tourist can take advantage of it though by buying a national rail ticket. The HEX is transport to and from the airport and would not fit with the model of this deal as well.

Hope this helps!

From the www.nationalrail.co.uk

"Train companies: Arriva Trains Wales, c2c, Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Coast, East Midlands Trains, First Capital Connect, First Great Western, First Hull Trains, First TransPennine Express, Gatwick Express, Grand Central, Greater Anglia, Heathrow Connect, Heathrow Express, Island Line, London Midland, London Overground, Merseyrail, National Rail, Northern Rail, ScotRail, South West Trains, Southeastern, Southern, Stansted Express, Virgin Trains Details

Enjoy a fabulous top London show or enjoy a classical concert at the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra with our 2for1 offers. Visit an exhibition such as the the UK Wedding Show with 2for1, or try out one of the West End's No 1 nightclubs at Sound London with yet another great 2for1 admission deal.

Download your 2FOR1 voucher below:

http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/

That is great - thanks for updating us - this is a new development!

Not sure what the question is if it states that so clearly...is there a reason you don't think it will work?

Unless things have changed (which is always a possibility) neither the HEX nor the Connect have ever been eligible for the 2for1 deals. Since the scheme was inaugurated those two have been specifically excluded (along w/ tfl tickets)

You might want to start a new thread instead of tacking on to this old one since things may have changed and folks may miss your posts buried at the bottom . . .

I am not finding what you found but I did find this link that show some offers available with the HEX and Connect but it doesn't appear to be all the 2for1deals

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/toc_hx.html

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/toc_hc.html

I don't think you can use these tickets for all the 2for1deals but I will keep looking...

And per here it is privately owned and not owned by national rail...
https://www.heathrowexpress.com/about-heathrow-express

I am determined to find a definitive answer haha

On the days out website faqs it states:


Can I participate in the promotion if I'm visiting London from outside the UK?

Yes. But please remember the offers are only available to anyone who buys a valid National Rail train ticket to either travel to London, or within London e.g. Travelcards issued by a National Rail operated ticket office.

HEX tickets are not sold at national rail ticket offices....

I really don't think the are eligible....

Jamikins, Thanks for all your efforts. It is quite confusing. I asked the question before finding the National Rail page. So in a way, answered my own question -- or so I thought. If its this difficult for experienced Fororites to find the definative answer, how would anyone ever know.....including those who are selling the tix?

Thanks again to all.

Based on my last post I would assume they are not eligible...why don't you just email or call national rail and ask?

Somebody made a good point on one of their trip reports....how would this work....buy one return ticket from a central London to a nearby station covering the days you're in London.the one return ticket you then use for the 2 4 1's and you can go with an oyster card either PAYG or a one week travelcard on it for the rest of your holiday!

Other possibilities for those who come in from Gatwick and not Heathrow is to buy a return ticket on either the Gatwick Express or slightly cheaper the regular train service...you need to get form and back to Gatwick anyway so in a way the benefits you get from the return ticket as far as 2 4 1 come for free!

Oh and the people at the admission entrance to sites will know because it has to be a ticket printed on national rail stock...if the HEX is then many won't notice even if they aren't eligible I would assume. But if the aren't (and I really don't think they are...) then everyone will know they aren't eligible because they look different.

Could someone out there in London-land please look at their HEX ticket and post for us? Is it on National Rail stock or not? Enquiring minds want to know???

"Could someone out there in London-land please look at their HEX ticket and post for us?"

In the scheme of things, relatively few Londoners would take the HEX/have tickets lying around. It is very expensive and unless they were going specifically to Paddington, there are much better ways to get to town.

"there are much better ways to get to town.

....and they would be??

Almost anything other than the HEX.

As has been said - unless one is staying AT Paddington, the HEX is not a good option. And even then, the Connect does the same thing for 1/2 the cost.

Comfort? A private car service is easier and more comfortable, and likely faster when considering the onward journey from Paddington to wherever.

Budget? The tube is a tiny fraction the cost, and again likely faster to the end destination. A car service is cheaper for more than one passenger.

Yes - I've taken the HEX when there was a specific reason it made sense -- which isn't often . . .

Somebody made a good point on one of their trip reports....how would this work....buy one return ticket from a central London to a nearby station covering the days you're in London.

Well aside from the fact it wouldn't work - for attractions in London you need a return ticket TO London, it's an awfully cack-handed way of doing things when you could just as easily buy a suitable Travelcard and then not have to worry about getting an Oystercard, blah, blah, blah

TC - there is a very simple solution - your friends are going to need travel cards anyway. Have them take the cheaper car service to their apartment, saving them I think you figured £28. While they are getting settled one can take a few ££s out of that savings and take the tube 1 stop west to shepherds bush train station and buy them all 7 day travel cards from the national rail station there (not the tube station there). Job done and it will save them money and allow the 2for1 deals without all this fuss!!

OK Alan, I read a trip report where soebody suggested that so...

Can't you buy a return trip to London in advance? Pick the closest station? It as a long excellent trip report referenced in a thread here, I can'
t find it now. But it worked at 3 or 4 difference places (Tower of London, War Rooms...)

As far as indicating a person is cheating if he or she does it, the rules are the rules. Frankly, although I completely understand the rationale behind the program and what it is supposed to do and why it was established, it has made trvel within the tfl world somewhat more complicated. Leaving aside the 2 4 1's (which are great deals of course), the best transport idea are oyster cards. Seven day paper zone 1 & 2 paper travelcards cause problems with extension fares...one has to pay cash at the outrageously high rate or do other "dodgy" things.

Yes it's dodgy but then again any tourist who buys a paper 7 day card for the 2 4 1's is being dodgy now, isn't he.

I wish I could find the thread with a link to that really great report but I can't right now.

Here's the quote from the trip report...

"Since the discounts worked in conjunction with paper tickets from national rail stations, the Oysters we purchased wouldn't work. Any inexpensive paper ticket would do even though we wouldn't be riding the train. We got a couple for Waterloo to Clapham Junction and back for around £4. The coupons themselves were far more valuable than the cheap train fares we'd never use."

So fthe 1 £4 or so investment, they were able to do ther 2 4 1's and use the more efficient, perhaps cheaper, oyster cards for their real transport and not have to trudge to a national rail office every day or plan in advance.

Myself, although the difference is hardly earth shaking, I have certain found that 4 days is more efficient and cheaper with Oyster PAYG because the might be a day in there where you don't use much public transport and do a lot of walking, do an out of city excursion and need one return trip to the start of the excursion etc. As a matter of fact, I usually do better with PAYG for a 5 day stay than with a 7 day travelcard although it is very very close.

So, let me ask you Alan. A tourist comes in to Gatwick, takes the train from Gatwick to Central London (which he or she has to do anyway) and buys a return ticket at Gatwick for his or her entire trip. Then he or she used oyster cards for the entire London portion of the trip. Is that dodgy? Should he or she feel guilty that he is using a technicality in a program that was originally designed for locals to visit the capital?

Luckily for me, I never have to make these moral decisions as I travel usually solo but I suppose if I was travelling with a companion my morals are so high that I wouldn't dream of doing any of this stuff <g>

I think people over think this by trying to get around the rules or find the best deal.

If you are in London 5+ days just get the 7 day paper travel card. It is the most cost effective.

Anything under j5 days ust buy a 1 day paper travel card for that day (you can go to any manned ticket booth and buy for 3 days in a row to save time).

If you want to use Oyster PAYG as well just do it for the other days but the difference in price is likely minimal for the time/effort people spend trying to figure this out and worrying about saving 1-2 £'s. The cost over your whole trip is so small. You likely pay more in your banking fees to take cash out than the difference over 3 - 4 days between the 1 day paper travelcard and the the Oyster PAYG. And by just getting the travelcard you will more than make up the difference on the savings.

Keep It Simple!

So this person paid for PAYG + £4 each for the paper tickets. Why not just buy a 1 day paper travel card and be done with it?

janikins....every individual will have their own pattern of doing things. You don't pay for PAYG...you put a certain amount of cash in an account on the oyster card. It is used in those cases where you don't have a valid travelcard on the oyster card or for extension fares (say from Heathrow to Central London if you put a 7 day zone 1 & 2 travelcard on your oyster card.

PAYG works real well because there are daiuly caps at the same rate as a 1 day travelcard for that day would have cost. It is not complicated in the slightest You don't do anything with it; the great (or maybe not so great) tfl computer in the sky calculates the cheapest fare combinations for that day and you always get the cheapest fare.

Now I'm not going to quibble. My own travel patterns, which may be different from others I admit, might include on a Thursday leaving my hotel at 10 AM, taking the tube to central London, picking up theatre tickets for bothn afternoon and an evening performance...bopping around a bit in the West End, shopping, just walking, whatever. Have lunch, go to the theatre that afternoon, have dinner, go to the evening performance go back to the hotel. Total expenditure on an oyster PAYG something like £4.40...didn't have to buy a one day travelcard in advance. If I decide to do a couple of things requiring public transport, it will bump up to the same cost as a 1 day travelcard (although there is a separate capping if I only use buses as there is no longer a one day bus pass)...do that a couple of days and you do better with PAYG on oyster. There are cons to that too (the 0930 weekday rule but I rarely start out before 0930 anyway). That works for me. for others it might not work as well. If the issue was transport alone, the oyster card system would be the answer and yes I understand the idea (as a matter of fact I was one of the first to suggest it) of using oyster PAYG and the day before doing a 2 4 1 during the course of the day, stopping by a national rail office and picking up a 1 day travelcard issued on the proper paper stock for the next day and using it in lieu of the oyster card that day. Works too. Is it more or less of a hassle? Is it more or less difficult? Well they all require some kind of foethought and pre planning and I understand London public transport fares can be a maze of contradicitions (in 500 words or less, explain to me all the permutations for 16 year olds? Do they need photocards? Does it have to be done in advance? I am sure the regulations are there but to see if they apply they have to be read

Finally, just one note. I read somewhere that beginning late this month, the national railways will require a photocard for the purchase of 7 day traveldcards (again the thread is somewhere in the recent past here). Of course no big deal, but it's just another little irritant to this whole mess.

But then again if we didn't have convoluted rules and ways around them, we wouldn't need bureaucrats or varrier gates or whatever!

Incidentally Alan...if I'm staying in London 4 days and use oyster PASYG except the day before I wish to do a 2 41 or two, stop by a national rail office and pick up a one day travelcard on the proper paper stock, is that dodgy too? (I mean all this good naturedly because like you, I suppose, I'm a very moral person and wouldn't dream of doing anything not in the spirit of the law <g

If you want to use Oyster PAYG as well just do it for the other days but the difference in price is likely minimal for the time/effort people spend trying to figure this out and worrying about saving 1-2 £'s. The cost over your whole trip is so small.

The main advantage of Oystercards are that they are easy to use for out of zone use - eg travelling from Heathrow to central London, then sticking in central London until you return to Heathrow. If you are staying for 5 days or more they can have both a Travelcard and PAYG on them thus avoiding the need for "extension fares" which are needed for paper Travelcards.

If it wasn't for the 2-4-1 offers then Oystercard would be the default choice for most visitors - except those visiting London for the day

Whatever - to be honest I just think the amount of time and effort people spend trying to find the best 'deal' is over the top and makes it overly complicated to save a few quid.

The 2for1s will save a tonne and the savings will more than make up for the PAYG difference = paper travelcard to me. Its super easy to take your papertravel card to a manned ticket booth and ask for a ticket from the end of your zone to where you are going - I do it all the time with my Zone 1-4 oyster annual pass when I go to Heathrow.

I live in London - I really dont give a hoot whether someone goes for PAYG or travelcards.

I am going to stop reading these threads because I just find them frustrating. No matter what advice people give someone doesnt believe it, or doesnt like it, or tries to find ways of making it invalid or ways to get around it.

Enjoy your travels no matter what pay method you decide on!

jamikins...without quibbling or arguing with you...you have an oyster card and the system is set up so that whatyou do is add funding to the PAYG portion of your oyster card and it's totally transparent...even if there isn't enough PAYG funding on your oyster card, the system is set upso that you will be able to exit the ube at the destination with a negative balance on your oyster card but the next time you tap in it will say seek assistance and then you pay up. And do remember oyster card fares are much cheaper than cash fares.

Now again, I do agree with you the differences in most cases are only a few quid here and there and it isn't worth getting excited over it for the most part and I agree the 2 4 1's are well worth it. But it's human nature to want to do it as cheaply or as efficiently as possible and that is completely understandable. Of course, as you say, figuring out the cheapest way may not be possible unless you're the kind of person who has to plan every thing down to the last detail (and there are people like that) so on Thursday morning from 8 AM to 11 AM we will alocate time to visit the Tower of London and then have lunch and then go to St. Paul's and then go back to our hotel to change and rest and go out to the theatre and eat dinner after the whow and snce I will need the 2 4 1's I will nmake sure the day before I stop by a national rail office to pick up a 1 day travelcard or I am all set with my 7 day travelcard but how do I get in from Heathrow as cheaply as possible yada yada yada. In the scheme of things, given the amount of money you have allocated (there's that word again) or your holiday, it really doesn't make all that much of a difference. So it costs you $50 more. Big deal.

But then there's the human mind that always want to get a "bargain" and wants to brag how they got the "bargain". I went to this dealer and made a deal and saved $300 on my car and this is how you do it. Or I go in and offer to pay cash rather than use a credit card and get a 5% discount. Ha Ha Ha; I'm such a genius. That's the way things work.

So we'll continue to plod along here and in about a week or less, somebody will ask on this forum, should I go with an oyster card or how does the oyster card work and somebody will answer well you don't want an oyster card as there are 2 4 1 discounts available and here's how you should do it. And why shouldn't people make suggestions to save a quid or two? That way the holidayer can go home and brag to his or her friends how he or she beat the system!

Well....I am surely confused now. So I will be the "somebody" to start a new post asking how to do it all. Please look for it and advise.

Thank you.

tc...

What's to be confused?

1. Heathrow Express tickets do not confer on you the ability to use 2 4 1's. Period. Ity may or may not be the best way to get into central London. It derpends on where your hotel is. It may well be the best way to get into central London is via the tube or maybe by a car service. Where is your hotel?

2. Tube tickets of any kind bought at tube stations including the ones at Heathrow do not allow you to use 2 4 1's or at least the ones we're talking about here. Tube stations run by transport for london (tfl) sell...oyster cards which are magnetic cards about the size of a credit card with a chip that confer on you whatever type of ticket or cash value you put on it. They also sell 1 day travelcards good for specified zones. Therefore if arriving after 0930 on a weekday at Heathrow, you could buy a 1 day zone 1-6 travelcard for that day and that day only. It would not be valid for the 2 4 1's but would get you into central London and do whatever other transport you might wish to do that day. Not hard to understand.

3. How you handle the 2 4 1's is the issue. Any day you wish to use one of the vouchers, you need a valid ticket from one of the national railway companies for that day. National railway offices sell 1 day and 7 day travelcards good for the specified zones. You want to make it nice and easy...on that first day of arrival, after checking in to your hotel, taking a nap to clear your head or whatever, use the zone 1-6 travelcard you purchased at Heathrow, nip off to a national rail office and buy a zone 1 & 2 7 day travelcard. Make sure you are at a ticket window of the national railways say at Victoria or Charig Cross or Paddington or London Bridge or whatever.

Voila, you are all set. When going back to Heathrow, you will have to buy a single ticket to Heathrow (basically the same as an exctension ticket which is difficult to do on a paper 7 day card but let's not get into that).

Voila. Done.

Enjoy your trip and don't worry if it's costing you a few extra pounds or not.

xyz: "What's to be confused?"

Oh, maybe the twenty-five paragraphs you've written in this thread alone?? just sayin' (I didn't even count the one sentence paragraphs)

I'm w/ jamikins -- Between the folks who don't take the advice, and those who offer tooooo much advice, these sorts of threads are just needlessly complicated/frustrating . . .

. . . (I didn't even count the one sentence paragraphs) or the ones from last year

New post, same question. However, I think I'm starting to see the light!


http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/please-explain-the-best-way-for-a-family-of-6-to-travel-about-london.cfm

Hi, may I know if the National Rail sell a one way tube ticket? So that I could enjoy the 2 for 1 offer. I already have a oyster card on hand so I just need a ticket with the National Rail logo. Btw my hotel is near Kingcross St Pancras.

Yes they do.

"I" cannot use the 2-4-1 offers - you need two people.

But assuming "I" is "we" there's nothing stopping you buying a 1 day Travelcard at KX / StP and not using the Oystercard

I am also going a bit barmy over the 2 for 1 offers

I arrive at gatwick , if i purchase my return gatwick express tickets online can i use this for the 2 for one offers?


alternatively if i get easy bus from Gatwick to Earls court and then travel to victoria and buy a rail travel card with a passport photo i can alos take advantage of the two for one offers am i right?

The Gatwick Express tickets will count - as will the cheaper Southern Trains tickets to Victoria or the even cheaper FCC trains to London Bridge & St Pancras.

Just don't put them into exit barriers but used a manned barrier.

But you keep referring to "I", you can't claim the offers if you are travelling solo

killigigi...

As alanRow says, hold onto your train ticket...you may be asked to show it when you present your 2-for-1 coupons.

For the best deal, buy a Gatwick-Victoria ticket on Southern Railways. It's cheaper and only 5-7 minutes slower than the Express. The people at the rail ticket counter at Gatwick are very helpful and will explain how everything works. Trains run about every 15-20 minutes.

NOTE: If you have 3 or 4 people in your party, I think the "Group Save" bargain is till available with Southern: Up to 4 adults and 2 children travel for the price of 2 adults. We used it in 2008...so check the Southern website to see if it still is available.

Last year I started a thread just on the 2-for-1 coupons. I suppose most of the info is still valid:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/special-2-for-1-days-out-coupon-thread.cfm

SS

thanks for that..and yes I am travelling with my partner!

I have decided to get the easy-bus from Gatwick to Earls court..it is 8 pounds return for both of us ..def cheapest option.

then we will get the train to victoria , where we will each buy a seven day travel rail card with a passport photo , which should cover the 2 for 1 vouchers!

Im coming from Heathrow to Southwark by train. Should I take the line that goes to Paddington. Then buy a return ticket from Paddington to Waterloo east (as that it is also national rail and the closest to my hotel). Im not actually returning that way. But if I make the return ticket for 8 days later. Can I then use 2 for 1's the entire time im there without having to buy any other special train tickets. ( I understand about buying the travel cards). Just not so sure on the train tickets. Or my other question would be can I just buy those tickets but not actually use them at all and buy another ticket from Paddington to the southwark station which is closer to my hotel? Thanks, its hard to find the exact info being in New Zealand!

There is no train service between Paddington and Waterloo East, and going to Paddington to get to Southwark is a rather roundabout (and expensive, if you use Heathrow Express) route, though I suppose you could go to the National Rail ticket office at Paddington to get a 7-day travelcard from them that would cover you for the 2for1s as well as all your tube and bus travel. Travelling from there to Southwark by tube isn't particularly difficult or time-consuming either (just change at Baker St - it's just a few steps on the level between the two lines): but it is a bit roundabout. You might just as well put a fiver each on Oyster pay-as-you-go at Heathrow and go by tube to Southwark (change at Hammersmith to the District Line eastbound - a few steps across the platform - and then to the Jubilee Line at Westminster (escalators all the way); and once you're settled in, get a 7-day National Rail travelcard from Waterloo. You could then use the Oyster (topped up as necessary) on any days not covered by your travelcard.

Jenking: welcome to Fodors. Patrick has given you good info/advice. But to help you use the site better . . . When you have a question it is usually best to start a new thread of your own rather than tagging on to a two year old one.many will not see your post and try to answer the original questions.

And definitely don't go via Paddington --expensive and very out of your way.

Thanks for the replys, I will start a new thread in the future. I still don't understand one thing. I just want to buy some return train tickets at the start of my 5 days from somewhere so I can use the 2 4 1's for my entire stay not having to worry about getting other tickets as im also going to use the hop on hop off bus for 48hours so wont be training to some of the 2 for 1 places. So what route should I buy these train tickets for? As that was the only reason to go from PAD to WAT east.Hope this isn't sounding too confusing! Thanks

Not sure why you are using the HOHO bus when a 7-day travel card (purchased at Waterloo Station as recommended by Patrick) does more for less.

With it you can use bus, train or tube anywhere and anytime in the purchased zones for 7 straight days...plus (since purchased at the train ticket office) it covers the 2-for-1 deals all 7 days.

Then save the 8th day for sights not covered by 2-for-1.

NOTE: I've never used the HOHO bus, but it doesn't look like my cup of tea...prefer the flexibility of London's astoundingly great tube and bus system.

SS

...in addition...

It looks like the HOHO comes every 15-20 min (10 min for some of the stops).

Tubes are every 3-5 min. Buses on the most commonly-used routes come about every 5 min...and often less between the most visited sights (since more than one bus route may work.

HOHO has a very limited coverage area, compared to the buses -- you're never more than a few blocks away from a bus stop.

SS