lily3

Would love some advice on planning our 15 night trip to Italy in early - mid October. After a lot of difficulty choosing destinations, we are planning on:
Flying into Genoa - 2 nights. Maybe stay here
http://www.hotellenuvole.it/main.php in the old town.
Main goal to wander the Carrugi/old town, eat good food, visit the Mercato, pop into some Palazzos, ride the funicular for some city views.

Train to Camogli - 3 nights, Cenobio dei dogi. Goal to do some easy hikes/walks, train to some of the surrounding towns (Chiavari, Rapello), eat good food in Camogli and surrounding towns, relax, take a boat trip, more good food!

Train from Camogli to Bologna, 6 nights. B&B Antica Casa Zucchini (recommended by sandralist on this board, thanks, seems lovely!). Plan to spend time in the city itself, day trips by train (Parma, Modena, etc), maybe cooking class, visit food markets in Bologna, more good food!

Train from Bologna to Venice, 4 nights, fly home from Venice.

Does this seem like a good distribution of days. Enough time in Liguria? I was considering staying all 5 nights in the area in Camogli, with day trips to Genoa, but there's lots that seems interesting to Genoa, so rather than doing 2 days trips, staying a couple nights seems to make more sense. Will 3 nights in Camogli after that be enough to enjoy the area?

Regarding train travel, would we need to book in advance for Camogli to Bologna, and Bologna to Venice? What's the best route to Bologna from Camogli, would it be a regional train?

We weren't planning to rent a car, but the main thing I think we're missing without one is some time in the Emilia Romagna countyside. Would it be worth it to rent a car for a day from Bologna to visit some rural areas? Or is there a great agroturismo with excellent food near a town we could take a train to and then a short taxi ride, for one night? I'd prefer not to move around too much and do one night stays, but it would be nice to get into the countryside a little. Will the countryside in the area be pretty in October or fairly bare/brown? Initially we were thinking of just doing Genoa/Liguria and Piedmont, then decided to include the Bologna/ER region, and thought Piedmont after all that might be an overload of good rich food, so decided to do Venice instead, which should be a nice complement to everything else. Also skipping Piedmont avoids the hassles of renting a car.

Would love any tips, advice, suggestions!

bobthenavigator

Nice trip---you will have fun !
The only reason to book trains in advance is discounted fares----your call.

PalenQ

Regarding train travel, would we need to book in advance for Camogli to Bologna, and Bologna to Venice? What's the best route to Bologna from Camogli, would it be a regional train?>

No need to book in advance but if it involves the faster trains you can save money by doing so - but then you have to book weeks in advance to get the limited in number discounted tickets. then they are non-changeable non-refundable I believe.

You could take regional trains on those routes with possible changes needed I suspect and if not in a hurry that would be really cheap. there is no reason to book regional trains in advance - flat fare and reservations are not even possible - on faster trains they are mandated and automatically come with the ticket you buy.

In any case the fares all told even for faster trains on those routes are not that much and you can always just buy your tickets once in say Camogli.

For lots of great info on Italian trains - www.seat61.com - good info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. There is an Italy Eurailpass but you are not nearly traveling enough to even merit looking at that.

PalenQ

Looking at schedules it seems that from Camogli you can take regional trains to Genoa and Milan and then high-speed train to Bologna.

Bologna to Venice has regional trains every hour that take only 30 minutes longer than the fastest trains as that is not a high-speed capable route - so just buy that regional train ticket in Bologna and save lots of money - regional trains take just under 2 hours Bolgona to Venice vs 1.5 hours on faster trains.

sandralist

Easiest route Camogli to Bologna is the 11.42am one-seat ride to Milan (it's an (Inter-City train), then switch in Milan to a hi-speed to Bologna Centrale.

Mid-October can see terrific downpours in the Riviera that close hiking trails, and even disrupt train travel (and certainly boat travel). You could have absolutely beautiful dry weather for your entire stay, even go swimming, and your chances of poor weather are probably less than 1 in 5. But it can happen (just last year it happened around Oct 10-12). So if you do see storm warnings, you'll need to pay attention and adjust. Fingers crossed for nice weather.

Hope you will add Ravenna to your list of possible day trips from Bologna. If you want to visit a rural area in the ER without renting a car, take a day trip to Brisighella for lunch by train (switch in Faenza). In Brisighella, Locanda Il Cavallino is a short walk from the train station and serves lovely food with a panoramic view of farmlands, which will be quite pretty in fall. You can work off your calories after lunch with a climb up to the historic clock tower or the castle, for a beautiful view of the surrounding foothills. Go on a sunny day.

Have a nice trip!

sandralist

Here are some pictures of Brisighella in autumn. You can see it is very colorful

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/46703476.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8344/8...3c36253c00.jpg

lily3

Thanks for all the train information - glad this sounds like this will be pretty straightforward.

Sandralist, I heard about the terrible flooding in Genoa and the Riviera last year - we'll be there at the beginning of our trip, first week in October, so hopefully the weather will still be nice and the area won't be affected so badly 2 years in a row! Thanks for the suggestion of Brisighella as well, will definitely plan on that. Any suggestions for getting off the beaten track on the coast without a car? Maybe to visit an olive oil farm/cooperative, etc? I'd even do a day tour if there was something like that available. Now I'm thinking 3 nights won't be enough with all there is to do in the area! (not if the weather is bad though)!

sandralist

In early October you will find that most of the Riviera is "off the beaten track", although you will come across concentrations of other tourists (and plenty of tourist shops) in some of the most famous photo-op places. But it is easy to shake loose of that completely if you want. If the weather is fine, a walk along the seaside in Zoagli is extraordinary, or if you like to hike, take the cable car from Rapallo up to the Monteallego santuario. But even from Camogli, if you take the boat to Punta Chiappa and then march up the hill to San Rocco, you are unlikely to run into any other tourists. (If you don't like climbing, you can take the bus up to San Rocco and walk down to Punta Chiappa, but be sure to nail down the boat schedule before leaving so you can get back easily).

If the weather turns rainy, visit Chiavari (best to go when the stores are open from 4pm to 7pm) and the museums in Nervi.

Most of the olive oil production in the immediate vicinity of Genoa and Camogli is "gentleman farmer", for private consumption, and olives tend to be harvested and pressed later than early October. In Liguria, olives are not hand picked but drop into netting, so there is really nothing to "tour" -- you will see the trees and the nets everywhere you go. Many of the olive "mils" are in local garages. If you are looking to taste olive oil, there is a nice olive oil shop in the piazza Colombo in Genova (near the Mercato Orientale) called E.V.O. Or every October in the town of Lavagna, usually during the first or second weekend of October, there is a pesto festival. It's called "Pesto e dintorni" and you can go watch pesto demonstrations and try lots of local olive oil. The dates will be announced later in the year.

You will be in the area roughly around the same time as the Salone di Nautico -- the huge boat/yacht show that takes place in Genova. If you have your heart set on eating at any destination restaurants you should make a point of reserving a bit ahead of time, both in Genova and in places along the coast as far south as Lavagna. One of the reasons the Salone di Nautico is held during this time is that this is an optimal weather moment for the region (the yacht show moves to Monaco the following week.) So that is another reason to be optimistic that you'll get favorable weather for your stay.

sandralist

Sorry for my typo: It's Montallegro

The funivia departs from a few blocks behind the Rapallo train station, at the base of the foothills

http://www.portofinotrek.com/trek/tr...ntallegro.html

lily3

Thanks for all the great information. So the boat show will be on - that must be the reason all the hotel prices in Genoa seem so expensive for our dates! Any suggestions for a pleasant, well located place to stay in Genoa, to make the most of our couple nights there? The Savoia is too expensive for our dates, and the place I looked at in the old town doesn't reply. I'd even do a bed and breakfast if there was a nice, convenient one.

PalenQ

well if B&B is OK search airbnb.com

sandralist

I never stayed in Genova, but there is a poster on Fodor's who styles himself/herself as "tarquin" who has frequently recommended La Locanda di Palazzo Cicala based on staying there within recent years. Probably most b&bs in Genova now list themselves on booking.com, so you can also look there and read verified user reviews. In general, it is better not to stay right around the Principe station, for reasons of aesthetics and tourism, but also because you will find it easier to board a train at Brignole station and get to Camogli without needing to switch trains. (If for some reason taking a train to Camogli turns out to be totally unappealing on your travel day, cab rides to Camogli are about 60e and take 30 minutes.)

sandralist

I want to encourage you to read independent reviews of any recommendations, because I took the trouble to look up reviews of Locanda di Palazzo Cicala after mentioning it here, and saw several that were negative about various aspects. So very often a single reviewer here will be happy with a stay and make a recommendation, but a wider range of opinion will turn up things that may be just the kind of issues that are a deal-breaker for you.

I would include in that even my own recommendation for Antica Casa Zucchini, because while I very much enjoyed my 2 stays there, it's possible another visitor, reviewing their stay, would mention something I never noticed -- like hard or soft beds, or discomfort with no reception desk, parking, etc.

lily3

Believe me, I'm probably going cross eyed from reading so many reviews from lots of different sources! I'd never choose a place from just one recommendation. I read Fodor's so much you kind of feel you "know" some of the posters, so you tend to value some of those recommendations more than a random review from some other source. I had already seen tarquin's comments on Locanda di Palazzo Cicala, but looked it up and there were plenty of negative reviews that were discouraging. And I've read other positive things about Antica Casa Zucchini, as well. I think in Genoa I'm leaning towards this one, which does have availability and gets good reviews. The only concern is that it's in the old town in an area that may be uncomfortable to walk around in at night, such as after dinner. What do you think about the location?
http://www.hotellenuvole.it/main.php

sandralist

As you've probably already picked up from reading reviews, there is no place you can stay in the caruggi without encountering a noticeable amount of prostitution, even in daylight hours. Probably a given that one finds it depressing and discomforting, but I hear very few reports that it is actually poses any dangers to visitors. In fact, one of the things I've noticed in the caruggi is that the pimps are just as plentiful and visible, and pretty obviously there to keep order, watching everybody like hawks.

Something else to know about the medieval caruggi is that, like Venice, they were built to have a maximum amount of blind corners and dead ends, with a deliberately confusing layout, precisely to make it much more difficult for invaders to arrive in the port, which couldn't be gated or walled off (like the other end of town is, at the start of the foothills). So even modern strangers are going to find it unnerving upon arrival, especially at night. But again, I've yet to hear of any theft, assault, etc affecting any tourists.

All that said, I don't like to take complete responsibility for anyone else's safety or make calls for them about comfort zone. The broad streets and well-lit sections of the city that are nonetheless convenient for tourism are generally in the vicinity of the Mercato Orientale, between Brignole station and the trade fair arena at the seaside, or areas around the piazza Corvetto.

But you are reading reviews and looking at prices, and most reviewers are pretty alert to safety issues, especially reviewers from America.

DRJ

My $0.02.

For an interesting, educational day look into "Italian days". Visits to Parmagiano, Prosciutto and Balsamico works and a generous pranzo. Fun, too.

Also, take the train to Modena for lunch at Hosteria Giusti. Lunch only, at the back room of a salumeria, four tables. Reservations mandatory. Memorable.

lily3

Thanks DRJ!
Giusti is already on the must do list! Do you need to reserve way in advance, or can you wait until a few days/week before hand?

I'd also come across Italian days when I was looking for a food oriented day trip out of Bologna. I see it gets great reviews, but my only concern was that is a group trip. Was that a downside at all? I see there are other companies that do similar trips that seem to be private, or groups of 4-6 maximum, but Italian days is the top rated one.

Keren

I'm staying at the BW City Hotel Genova in September. I read mostly very nice comments on different websites, the location is central, close to Piazza de Ferrari and it had better prices on its own website than on booking.com.
I realize prices for early October are much higher than what I'm paying for my pre-Salone Nautico stay but they are considerably lower than the Savoia's for the same week.
http://www.bwcityhotel-ge.it/en/home-page.aspx

There are B&B's on tripadvisor.com and Airbnb. Some of them get rave reviews but most require pre-payment of some sort.

PalenQ

Easiest route Camogli to Bologna is the 11.42am one-seat ride to Milan >

What is a one-seat train ride?????????

DRJ

I'd say reservation for Hosteria Giusti a week out should be fine. My trip with Italian Days was three couples in a van. No umbrella toting leader required. (Very casual.)