Uggamber

Hello! My beau and I are planning a trip to Europe for two months...March 2009 through April 2009. We are students, planning on taking only ourselves and our backpacks and using the train system and hostel system to get around.

I am trying to plan in advance, as I think this ensures a smoother trip, of course.

The countries we are interested in are Germany, Austria, Italy, and Spain.

As I plot my itinerary, I've run into trouble with our Italy to Spain trekk. There is, of course...this little (actually huge country) called France that is getting in my way. hehe.

We are not interested in spending much time in France. If anything, perhaps a day or two between train rides on our way to Spain. Obviously, we'll have to add France as a country on our Eurail Pass, because we must travel through it. We considered a ferry from Italy to Spain, but a boat ride would take a considerable amount of time LONGER than passing through France by train.

I am listing our itinerary here. We have not broken it down into days spent per city just yet, as we have two months of time to travel and hope to not be too rushed.

If anyone has any suggestions about the most efficient way through France, or especially navigating the Spain rail system, it would be greatly appreciated!

March 1 - April 30, 2009 TRIP

1. Houston to Frankfurt
2. Frankfurt to Hamburg
3. Hamburg to Berlin
4. Berlin to Dresden
5. Dresden to Munich
6. Munich to Vienna
7. Vienna to Salzburg
8. Salzburg to Innsbruck
9. Innsbruck to Venice
10. Venice to Florence
11. Florence to Rome

12. Rome to Pisa (IS there a train from Rome to Pisa?)

Here's where the trouble starts. We want to get to Spain, but aren't sure which routes are best through France.

One idea: Pisa to Genoa, Genoa to Nice, Nice to Marseille, Marseille to Avignon, Avignon to Toulouse, Toulouse to Barcelona.

If there is an easier way, please offer some input if possible.

Then there is Spain. It seems to me like Spain has the fewest train routes...the cities we must visit are:

--Barcelona
--Valencia
--Seville
--Granada
--Cordoba
--Madrid

If anyone has any suggestions as to the best order to see these cities via train, that would help immensely.

finally,

Madrid back to Houston.

Any suggestions will help, thank you!

-A.Nicolette

suze

22 cities in 60 days (if I'm counting your itineary correctly) allows you barely 2 days per city, and a 0.7 day allowance for each time going place to place.

I think you *might* want to put some days to places before you spend any more time planning the trip. Just to give yourself a more realistic idea of the pace you are attempting to keep.

Uggamber

The only cities we are interested in actually spending time in are:

1. Frankfurt (day trip to Heidelburg)

2. Hamburg

3. Berlin

4. Dresden

5. Munich

6. Vienna

7. Salzburg

8. Innsbruck

9. Venice

10. Florence

11. Rome

12. Pisa (could be a day trip)

13. Barlcelona

14. Valencia

15. Granada

16. Seville

17. Madrid

---------
We could cut Salzburg or Innsbruck, depending on which we read is better.
---------
I don't want to spend any time in France, per se. I just want to find a way to get THROUGH it on our way to Spain.

PalenQ

Two sites with lots on european train travel and passes more than the usual listing of prices and click on to buy buttons: www.ricksteves.com - also has a listing of budget airlines you may want to mix in for longer treks or to relocated from one part of Europe to another; and www.budgeteuropetravel.com where you can request their free European Planning & Rail Guide that is a great primer on European trains and passes for novices. I would also highly recommend the book Let's Go Europe for any student age traveler - written by students for students as they say - a wealth of info on accommodations - not just hostels and youth hotels (more and more of which have private rooms for couples) and cheaper hotels, pensions, B&Bs, etc. along with a wealth of other info. At any major bookstore or library.

J62

Sounds like a fun adventure - one I would have taken a few years ago had I the time & initiative you have.

Look into cheap flight from somewhere in Italy to Spain.

Check www.whichbudget.com for options.

StCirq

You don't have to go through France; you can go over it. Check out www.whichbudget.com for cheap flights.

Digbydog

As a previous poster mentioned, Budget Europe Travel Service is a fantastic resource. Their phone number is 800-441-2387 or 800-441-9413. They have very knowledgeable people who can help you with your plans--for free! You can also buy your rail passes through them.

Dukey

Clickair from Pisa to BCN; Vueling, EasyJet, and Clickair from Milan to BCN


www.skyscanner.net

suze

OK, I stand corrected, then you have 3 days per city, plus 0.5 to move place to place each time.

kybourbon

You can take an overnight ferry to Barcelona from Rome's port (Civitavecchia) or from Genoa.
http://www.ferrysavers.co.uk/grandinaviveloci.htm

fun4all4

I don't have specific advice for your itinerary.... but, another travel forum you might want to check is Lonely Planet's Thorntree http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa

It seems to have a large student crowd and more backpacker/hostel folks. You will find a wealth of great info here on Fodor's as well, but Thorntree might be a good addition (not replacement) to your trip planning.

Happy Travels!

Jean

Even at 3 days per city plus 1/2 day travel between, I think this is a lot to see in 60 days. IMO, it's not enough time in places like Rome, Venice, Florence, and no (apparent) time in the countryside anywhere except Innsbruck/Salzburg (and you're thinking of dropping one of those).

See Pisa while you're in Florence. No need to backtrack from Rome. Then look for a cheap flight from Rome to Madrid or Barcelona.

But, weatherwise, I'd reverse everything and start in Spain and end in Germany. More rainy in Germany in March than April, and temps will be pretty cool in Germany and Austria in March.

ira

Hi U,

Lucky you, to have 2 mos in Europe.

Good advice above, particularly the thorntree forum.

You are making the usual newbie mistake of trying to pack everything into a one-time "If it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium" itinerary.

You have 50 years to visit Europe.

You will go back.

I suggest sticking to Germany, Austria and Italy this visit.

Fly open jaw into Frankfurt and out of Rome.

What draws you to Hamburg?

Many times it is easier and cheaper to fly between cities. www.whichbudget.com.

Carefully check the luggage restrictions.

>We are not interested in spending much time in France.

Chacun à son goût

Enjoy your planning.

fun4all4

By the way...I do agree with the majority that, even with 60 days, this may be an overly ambitious itinerary. I am not sure of your interests, but it is not a bad idea to have a few longer stays built in with some time to relax, do laundry, etc... so you are not constantly on the go - yes, you can see and do a lot, but it is hard to keep that kind of pace for 2 straight months. Also, you may want to give yourself a break from big cities once in a while - you could build in time to hike (Cinque Terre?) or ski (Austria?) or visit small hill towns (?) or whatever.

And, yes, a short flight is probably best way to get from Italy to Spain.

Good luck - enjoy the planning.
Happy Travels!

cvillian

Hi Uggamber,

If you want to cut out France, there is an overnight train from Milan to Barcelona (only runs Mon, Wed & Fri). Would help the budget by saving on a hotel room for the night. We have not travelled on this yet but will be going from BCN to Milan in late October. Hope this helps!

www.eurorailways.com

PalenQ

If you use a railpass on the Milan-Barcelona Night Hotel Train then i believe you need not have France on your railpass at all - just Switzerland and or Spain - at least i believe that's the condition for using passes on this train (and a similar one from Geneva to Barcelona)

Hans

Uggamber: go to http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml

On the upper left corner you can type in "from - to" and get the information for the train rides. Since itīs the website of the German rail, they donīt give prices outside Germany (but you go by pass anyway), but you can find the connections.

Yep, thereīs a direct train from Rome to Pisa, though it might be faster to change trains at Florence.

A night train might be the best idea for the long journey from Italy to Barcelona (though the South of France is actually very nice and interrupting the journey somewhere in the Provence might be an idea). Tonight one would leave a 9 PM from Torino and arrive at 9 AM in Barcelona. No need to change trains, so you can get to Spain without touching French soil

Have fun!!

Hans

BTW, the list of cities you want to see is in my opinion in a good order (though Iīm not sure about Spain after Valencia). An exception is that you might want to go: Munich - Salzburg- Vienna - Innsbruck.

Youīll have some long train rides, as Dresden to Munich with 5-6 hours, but most wonīt be more than 3 hours.

PalenQ

Then there is Spain. It seems to me like Spain has the fewest train routes...the cities we must visit are:

--Barcelona
--Valencia
--Seville
--Granada
--Cordoba
--Madrid

All these cities are very well served by modern usually high-speed trains like AVE trains.

depends on where you want to end up as for the order, if Madrid then i'd say train Barcelona by EuroMed train to Valencia, then take an overnight train from there to Granada, then to Seville and do Cordoba as a day trip from Seville perhaps and then the few-hour AVE train to Madrid - if that is where you will be ending at

www.renfe.es Spanish railways for schedules

Mimar

I agree with Jean. Reverse your itinerary, start in the south and work north. Weather can be cold and rainy (or even snowy) in the north in March.