joeyrm7

We are 2 couples planning on going to England Ireland and Scotland in July. We will be renting a car. We will be landing in London and spending two nights. Its after that, that we need help. We would like to hit Dublin, Belfast, Glosgow & Edinburgh, other than that we have no idea as to what to see or how long to stay in each area. We will have a total of 11 nights excluding transcontinental flights. We love castles, medieval cities, keepin busy during the day, and then relaxing at night in nice restaurants and hotels. Would appreciate your ideas. Thanks

ssachida

hi joey,
1. For the kind of trip you mention, you most likely wont need a car.
2. Try getting a open-jaw flight, i.e. fly into London and out of Dublin or Edinburgh
3. If castles are what you like, given your time frame, skip Belfast and Glasgow.

Saying you want to go to a particular city, but have no idea what to see, is a bit like saying "i want to go to this particular cinema, but i have no idea what movies if any are playing". i don't mean this to be sarcastic or rude. It's just a suggestion that you figure out what you want to see first and based on those interests decide the itinerary. For example: if castles are your primary interest then look up various castles in UK and Ireland, pick the ones you think you'd love, then figure out planes, cars, trains and where you'll stay and for how many nights.

just my 2 cents.

jaja

Not far from Belfast is Carrickfergus Castle.

Apres_Londee

Gosh, of those places I've only been to London but I'm 100% sure that London, Dublin, Belfast, Glasgow and Edinburgh would take up a lot more than 11 nights, and that's without any stops in between.

Given your interests in castles and medieval cities I'd be inclined to stick with something like London, York, and Edinburgh with one or two smaller places along the way. There are lots of knowledgeable people here who can help you put together an itinerary but you'll need to focus your interests a bit more in order for them to help you.

I'd recommend spending at least 3 nights in London, which will give you 2 proper days. Arrival day you'll be groggy.

janisj

UM - maybe a map is in order. London to Dublin to Belfast to Glasgow to Edinburgh really isn't driveable. There is water in the way. Well - it <i>would</i> be driveable, but not in 11 days and it would be VERY expensive to take the car across on the ferries. Plus one does not want a car IN any of those cities.

Eleven days is not long enough for 5 cities essentially spread over 4 different countries. Plus it gives you absolutely NO time out in the countryside anywhere in England, Ireland, N. Ireland or Scotland.

Where are you flying home from - London? If so you'll have even LESS time since you'd want to be back in London the night before your flight out.

So - back to the drawing board. Maybe start by clicking on DESTINATIONS above and get some ideas of what you want to see. Then pick <u>at most</u> 3 cities -- or two cities and some time out in the country. If Ireland and/or N. Ireland stay in your plans -- you'll want to fly there from London -- not drive. If you opt for Scotland instead, you'll want to take a train or fly up from London -- otherwise you'll need a couple of days to drive each way.

irishface

If castles fascinate you, perhaps this itinerary might fit your needs:

Give your self three nights in London as janisj suggested so that you have two full days. Include the tower of London on one of those days.

Day 4 take the train to Heathrow and pick up rental car. Stop at Windsor Castle including Queen Mary's dollhouse (even my nephews were fascinated with it) and then drive to York with its castle abd cathedral.

Day 5 explore anything you didn't get to see in York and head out towards Ripon. Ripon has an interesting cathedral and just outside the city is Fountains Abbey ruins--lovely gardens and interesting remains.

Day 6 head toward Durham--stop at either Richmond Castle or Bolton Castle. Enjoy the scenery of Yorkshire Moors. You are in James Herriot country.

Day 7--Durham has a castle and cathedral and is an interesting city to explore. Head off north, spend the night near Hadrian's wall and visit one of the Roman museums.
Day 8 head to Edinburgh with maybe a stop at Bamburgh Castle.

Day 9,10,11-ditch the car and enjoy Edinburgh with its castle. If you want more castle, take the train to stirling for the day. However, there is much m9ore to explore in Edinburgh and you will
likely be "castled out" by then. fly home from Edinburgh.

By the way, don't be put off by the word city when referring 5to Ripon, York and Durham. The designation "city" is applied to any place with a cathedral and does not necessarily refer to a bustling metropolis. Many of these cathedral cities are towns with wonderful medieval streets to explore.

historytraveler

The above itinerary really doesn't make much sense. <I> Train to LHR, pick up car, visit Windsor and then drive to York.</I>

It's at least a 4 hour drive from LHR to York. You can get the train at Kings Cross and be in York in two hours.

Please review janisj's suggestion and limit your itinerary to either Ireland ( Dublin & Belfast ) or Scotland with Edinburgh & Glasgow.

markrosy

The route is totally doable if you drop Edinburgh and are prepared to lose a day on each travel day.

you could :

Night 1 : London
Night 2 : London
Day 3 : drive to Glasgow - very straight forward as long as you avoid Birmingham during the rush hour.
Night 3 : Glasgow
Night 4 : Glasgow
Day 4 Drive back down to Carlisle and then over to Stranaer using the SeaCat - 2 hours £99 for car plus one, £20 each for each additional person.
Night 5 : Belfast
Night 6 : Belfast
Day 7 : Dublin
Night 7 Dublin
Night 8 Dublin
Day 9 travel to Holyhead FastCat 2 hours similar price structure
Night 9 Conway
Day 10 North Wales
Night 10 Ludlow
Day 11 drive to LHR

There are probably holes in this but it's only an idea.

You may have personal reasons for taking in the Irish cities and personally it is a lot to take in but it is entirely doable.

The route also takes you past or near the best non tourist castle that these islands have to offer.

Compare

http://windsorliving.co.uk/WindsorCastle.jpg

which has as much atmosphere as a Holiday Inn to :

http://www.popularwealth.com/images/...erlaverock.jpg

or

http://www.borderreivers.net/wordpre...age-castle.jpg

Where you can still see the Scottish blood flowing through the rivers.

Compared with some of the 2 week road trips we have undertaken in the US this route is a walk in the park. It simply is down to how much you want to take in, why and how you view long driving days. The distances involved are similar to our trip from Washington DC, Asheville, Savannah, South GA, Beafort SC, Charleston, Beaufort NC then DC to home. Best two weeks of my life. 2000 miles but loved every minute.

Simply remember that Britain is a small place.

markrosy

Also remember that if you avoid big cities around rush hour and Friday/ Sunday nights, the motorways are fairly empty. Particularly north of Birmingham where most of the route is located.

I have done Manchester to Dumfries (building a house there)return twice this week (350 miles round trip). Back in time for tea and haven't noticed the miles. Didn't encounter a car in the outside lane for most of the way.

I would skip London altogether - 2 nights probably doesn't do it justice.

historytraveler

Sounds a bit like the <I>Amazing Race</I> to me. One might just be able to do it, but why? There's barely enough time in any one place to do anything except catch your breath. I will acknowledge that there are some travelers whose goal is simply to see as much as is physically possible. If this is what the OP wants to do, fine, but, IMO, one will really not 'experience' much of Ireland, Scotland, London or Wales. "This is day six, where in the hell are we?"

LoisL

I agree that you should eliminate one or two cities. I also would suggest itineraries that do not include a car. If you stick to the cities, you don't need a car to get around. Once across the pond, you can get very reasonable flights from city to city. We are going from London to Dublin, taking a train to Belfast, and then flying back to London from Belfast.
On a past trip, even though we had a car for a week [and it was VERY pricey], we opted to take the train into Dublin, as parking as well as driving around the city was not advisable [and we spoke to many people]. I would allow three nights in each city as a minimum, or you won't enjoy the trip, with a minimum of two. London should definitely be longer. Honestly, you could spend a week in London and not have time to take in all the sights you would want, and again, do NOT need a car there.

Another possibility is doing a day trip from London [for example] to Windsor Castle. I've done trips both ways, and unless there is no other option, do try to avoid renting cars in Europe.

janisj

I'm sorry -- but one simply can't compare a road trip in the USA w/ one in the UK. The congestion on UK Motorways can be really REALLY massive.

Have I driven from London to Scotland in a day -- yep - several times. Have I driven 450 miles down the center of California in a day. Yep - more times than I can count. There are no similar roads in the UK to I-5 where you can easily go 85-90 w/o stopping for hours on end.

Realistically, central London to Central Glasgow will take 7.5-8 hours -- if one is lucky -- w/o stops. I would hate to be the couple stuck in the back seat for 8.5-9 hours including a short stretch/fast food break.

And to drop Edinburgh -- which is heads and shoulders above most of the other cities on the list - just to make the rest barely work? One person on his/her own could <i>just</i> make that work. But for a party of 4 - I'd hate it. Is every single person willing to run at double time for 11 days?

joeyrm7

Thanks for all of the responses. We have all been to London and the outskirts 3-4 times each so we will minimize or completely eliminate the time there. Generally, we see a city for 2 days and maybe a day trip and that's enough for us. Hate to say this but we are from NY and keep up a pretty good pace during a long day. Edinburgh sounds like my prime destination with at least 3- 4 nights for time there plus a day trip. After reading the posts, we may have to listen and either lose the Englad/Wales portion of the trip, or Ireland. I would love to have additional input. Thanks again

LoisL

I am also from NY and it has been a joke for years about how I would take in ridiculous areas in a short time span.......... much to my husband's chagrin. Now I favor savoring an area, especially if I've already made one trip to the area already. That is why, on my return trip to Dublin, I will spend five nights there, and just do walks in the city, mingle with the locals, and totally relax. I personally love to meet the locals, observe the culture and habits of the people -- people watch. This may not be 'your thing'. If that is the case, I would say you may find 4 nights too long for Edinburgh. We spent two full days there, and found it sufficient, though a third day would have been better.

historytraveler

I do have to respond to the idea that two full days in Edinburgh is enough. If that is all the time you have, fine, but Edinburgh has considerably more to offer. I'm sure that many tour the castle, walk the Royal Mile to Holyrood and feel they've seen Edinburgh. Not so. Prior to last year, I had been to Edinburgh about a dozen times, never spending more than two or three days. On this last trip, I was determined to get to know Edinburgh better and planned on four full days. I did get to see more than I had on previous trips, but I'm still looking forward to my next trip as there remains much more to see and do. This is one of the best cities in Europe and, IMO, demands more than 48 hours.

markrosy

joeyrm7

Why not just take a connecting flight or even better say a Flyglobespan or Icelandair flight directly into Glasgow to save time. From there you would clearly be able to spend time in Edinburgh, Northumbria, the Scottish Borders and still have time to take the ferry to Belfast.

janisj

"I'm sorry -- but one simply can't compare a road trip in the USA w/ one in the UK. The congestion on UK Motorways can be really REALLY massive.

Have I driven from London to Scotland in a day -- yep - several times. Have I driven 450 miles down the center of California in a day. Yep - more times than I can count. There are no similar roads in the UK to I-5 where you can easily go 85-90 w/o stopping for hours on end"

Is plain cobblers and shows the limited experience you have of our roads. The roads north of Brimingham have four trouble spots, usually during rush hours. They are :
1. M60 Manchester ring road
2. M6 between Stoke and Preston
3. A1 near Newcastle
4. M62 near Leeds

It's not difficult this is simply commuter traffic and is easily avoided. Most people on holiday will not travel before 9am anyway.

The M6 is also difficult between Preston and Kirkby Lonsdale on Friday/Sunday evenings in summer.

It is simply incorrect to give the impression that the north of Engalnd/Scotland is a constant traffic jam. Most driving in this area will involve 85 miles an hour without any hold ups unless the Cumbrian police (who have little else to do) catch you.

Unless of course you want to argue with around 750,000 of driving on these roads over 20 years? (which you probably will!)

markrosy

Correction : Flyglobespan went under 2 months ago. Another sad loss. They and Zoom offered a good regional service.

Looks like we will all be flying through terminal 5 before long.

janisj

I'm not inexperienced on 'your' roads. I lived there for several years and go back a lot. "Most people on holiday will not travel before 9am anyway." Blokes yes -- Yanks generally are amazed they can't get breakfast by 0630 and be on the road by 0700 . . .

and . . . Unfortunately, most visitors don't have the luxury of knowing all the black spots nor know what to do when the road alerts pop up on the car radio.

What is generally easy for us who do know our way around -- is not easy for a first timer already challenged by being on the 'wrong side of the road/wrong side of the car'.

markrosy

Correction :

right side of the car, right side of the road

You lot choose to revolt - I know the French helped you but there was no need to adopt their silly habit of driving on the wrong side.

"Blokes yes" - only those without a four year old who gets up at 3am.

In all honesty, this thread brought up the idea of that trip and it had never before crossed my mind. It's a different proposition with Lytham as a start point but a round trip via Stranraer, Belfast, Dublin and Holyhead looks good for this summer.

GregPCM

Joey,

We have done the London to Edinburgh route both ways, by train and by car. By far the train is the way to go if you want to cover long distances in the shortest and least painful way. Unless you really want to stop on your way to Edinburgh, I would take the train there and then rent a car. Unless you have driven in the UK before a lot, I would highly recommend a GPS. If you get lost or just don't like driving in circles it is well worth it. Other than that I would pick Ireland or the UK. Your trip will be one big blur if you try to do both.

Have fun.

Greg