111op

Hi, I vaguely remember that I read this article a while ago, and I tried to search it. I found the citation at

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...AE0894DB404482

The trouble is that it's now a premium article. Is there a way to get this for free somewhere?

I thought that this would be interesting to read again since I'm planning to visit the Prado again. As I recall, the article argues that the black paintings may not be by Goya (?) -- or did I misremember this?

Does anyone have further links to look at?

Thanks!

ira

Hi op,

Did you try googling "Goya black paintings"?

111op

I have tried a couple of Google searches. I'm trying a few more, but maybe someone has a more inspired way of doing the search. Or even better, maybe someone has this in an electronic format they can e-mail me. (I guess I can pay on the Times to get the article....)

I may have a hard copy at home, but obviously I just thought about it, so I didn't check at home -- but if there's one, it's probably buried in a pile of articles.

It was a pretty interesting article, and I want to try to read it again before I visit Prado.

111op

Tracked down an excerpt here, for those interested:

http://www.eeweems.com/goya/salas.html

I'll see if I can track down the full article somewhere.

Chatters

111op--- you are breaking my heart!!...I've always been fascinated by the story behind Goya's "The Black Paintings"! Are you telling me there is a chance they aren't Goya's?????

Either way, I am still excited to be in Madrid in Nov as El Prado is having a very unique exhibit from October thru February. The Prado Museum will be presenting a retrospective of Spanish portraiture with portraits from the late 15th century through the early 20th century. About 80 masterpieces, including works by El Greco, Velazquez, Goya, Miro and Picasso, some never seen before or ever exhibited at the Prado. YEAH!!!! I am sure it wil be a madhouse, so I will skip Sunday, in favor of Tuesday and just head out to the Central Gallery- Room 12. Can't wait!!!

111op

Hi Chatters, I think that the Times article argued the son of Goya painted them and the grandson passed them off as Goya. I'm not sure as I don't have the full article at my disposal.

When does that exhibition start? I seem to remember checking Prado's website and there's one that starts on the 20 Oct (?). Maybe I should check again. I've such vague memories of Prado (I missed Bosch the first time), so I need to go back.

By the way, in case you don't know this, I believe Thyssen has completed a major extension. I'm not sure if I'll have the time to go (I'll only be there for a half day and then night), but you may be interested.

Have a great trip!

111op

Found this Guardian article while searching:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/featu...065940,00.html

A new take on the famous May 3 painting.

Chatters

111op-- thanks for the info! The exhibit starts on Oct 20th, it should be pretty neat. I am, too, limited by time and have to pick and choose a route thru El Prado. Enjoy Spain!!

jsmith

Many libraries subscribe to the New York Times and if they may have it some electronic media or microfiche if not on paper.

July 27, 2003 is not ancient history.

111op

Well, I leave for the airport in five hours....

I should probably try to see if I've the article at home when I get back. If not, then I'll have to swallow my pride and pay $3 to read it online.

From what I can gather, by the way, an argument has been made that the paintings were supposedly on the second floor of a house where Goya lived, but the second floor did not exist when Goya was alive. Further, the painting techniques were deemed too modern for Goya. However, this theory is also disputed and not necessarily accepted. It's probably enough background information for me for now for my short visit, but I'm going to try to do more research on this when I've the time.

111op

Here's another interesting excerpt from the article regarding the painting "The Dog":

http://www.abstract-art.com/abstract..._goya_dog.html

111op

Ok, I'll stop obsessing about this. But here's an article from the Independent:

http://hnn.us/comments/11749.html

The Times article can't be had for free, it seems, but the Independent sums up the arguments as to why the attribution to Goya is incorrect.