horatio

So we have our flights booked to Lyon end of August for a river cruise. Booked ourselves 3 nights earlier and trying to decide...do we take a hotel in Lyon and simply do daytrips and hang around town or do we rent a car at the airport and do a little road trip? the cruise will take us north through Burgundy, Beaune and then south towards Avignon. I would really like to do the Annecy area for a day...but does this area merit 3 nights if I went directly there? What would you do? So many options! OUr travelling companions would like to "see Switzerland" but not sure if the timing would allow that.

dwdvagamundo

horatio--A day in Annecy would be enough. Lyon has lots of things to see.

horatio

I hear you. But we will have 2 days in Lyon during the tour. We want to maximize our time and what we see I guess.

StuDudley

We stayed on lake Annecy for 2 weeks a few years ago - and never ran out of things to do & see. We had a car & explored the Alps.

Here is something I put together for a friend who was going to Annecy for 1 week. The GG is the Michelin Green Guide and the pg is the page for the site in the GG

Sunday
Annecy market on Sunday morning– one of the best in France according to the GG
Gorges du Fier** pg 144 9:15-5 www.gorgedufier.com after the market

Tours – in order of preference (roughly)

Tour 1 – Mt Blanc*** – the tallest mountain in the Alps. Page 430 & 255
This will be an all-day event, and only do it on a clear day. It will take about 1 ¼ hrs to get from Annecy to Chamonix – mostly using the freeway. Head north from Annecy, and catch the A41 heading east to Chamonix. There is really nothing of interest in the town of Chamonix – it is only a base for Mt Blanc. Take the two lifts up to the Aiguille du Midi*** . Also, take some other lifts – perhaps le Brevent***. If it overcast when you get to Chamonix, don’t go up & find something else to do.

Tour 2 – do on clear day and get an early start (8-9am) so the sun won’t be in your face for the most scenic part..
Take the N508 southeast from the south part of Lake Annecy. Go to Ugine. Take the D109 northeast from Ugine to Flumet. Now the most scenic part starts. Take the D909 northwest from Flumet over the Col des Aravis**. If you want to hike, the Col des Aravis wold be a good place for one. Just past the Col, take the D16 west through Manigod to Thones. Then back to Lake Annecy on the D909. Once on the lake, take the lake road clockwise. Stop & visit Talloires (it is on the east side of the lake). Then continue clockwise back to your Gite.

Tour 3 – Route de la Forclaz*** pg 150 (but the map route in the GG is not correct). Do this on a clear day and in the morning. It will only take a half-day
Head southeast on the N508 again. Take the D42 (just past Doussard) north over the Col de la Forclaz. Stop at the Col for great views. Continue north & follow the road back to the lake. Head clockwise, and visit Talloires if you have not visited it yet. The views from the east side of the lake are better in the morning.

Tour 4 – best in the afternoon. Perhaps visit Annecy in the AM
The Semnoz** pg 153. Follow the route in the Green Guide

Other things you might want to do:
- Boat trip on the lake – but you can see everything from the shoreline.
- Drive around the lake – but you will probably do this going & coming from your tours
- Chateau de Menthon* close to Annecy Pg 152. We enjoyed this chateau. Nice views.

Stu Dyudley

StuDudley

spelled my name wrong

Dudley

neckervd

Dudleys suggestions are perfect.
You can also go into the Alps by public transport, however.

Some timetble datas:
Lyon - Annecy by train: about every hr, 2 hrs journey
Lyon - Geneva by train: about every 2 hrs, 2 hrs journey
Annecy - Chamonix by train: about every 2 hrs, 2 1/4 hrs journey
Geneva -Chamonix by bus: about every 4times daily, 1 3/4 hrs journey

If you like to cruise on board of a historic paddle steamboat, go to Lake Geneva: Geneva - Nyon (castle, Swiss National Museum) - Yvoire (medieval village) - Morges (castle) - Lausanne (Olympic Museum, medieval city center with cathedral) - Lavaux vineyards (Unesco site) - Vevey - Montreux - Chillon castle.

danlev

The gastronomy in Lyon is proverbial, but I have a gem of a restaurant to recommend in particular: Gourmet de Seze. Been there twice, and each time it was music for the mouth.

horatio

Okay, so today I actually started researching the Vevey, Montreux area and it is my interest of the hour
What is the difference in "feel" of Annecy vrs. Montreux, Vevey?Which would you rather as we are willing to do either? I though maybe Montreux and surrounding area would give me a better feeling of Switzerland/Alps? The one time we were in Switzerland we saw not much because of the weather but our travel companions have never been to Europe and really want to get a little taste of Switzerland. Thanks for all your expertise..am keeping a journal full of suggestions.

StuDudley

If you are flying into & out of Lyon France, and then have 3 nights/2 1/4 days to explore on your own before your cruise - why go to Switzerland????

It is a 3 hr "all autoroute/freeway" drive to Montreux - which I would not want to do on the day of arrival. You most likely will not be able to see or do much on that day. I usually can't see much from the back seat of a car anyway. If you need to be back in Lyon for your cruise early in the day - then you really only have 2 days available to sightsee.

The train from Lyon to Montreux is 4 1/2 hrs from the Lyon Pt Dieu station & involves 2 train changes.

Go somewhere that you can got to quickly if you only gave 2-2 1/2 days available.

Personally, I like the area around Annecy (Mt Blanc, etc) more than on the lake in Montreux. I hate the drive through Geneva.

Stu Dudley

horatio

well, google maps said 2.5 hours Exupery to Vevey. I did not think that was bad with 2 drivers. And then our travel companions would get to see Switzerland. I guess that is why.
The big question is Annecy and area vrs. Montreux..Your vote is Annecy. The rate it is going finding reasonable lodging maybe it will have to be Annecy.

StuDudley

After 30+ years experience with driving in Europe, I always add about 20% to the google/viamichelin estimates. Remember, somewhere along the way, you will have to purchase a "sticker" that allows you to drive on the autoroutes in Switzerland. That will consume some time. We never drive more than 2 hrs on "arrival" day.

If I waned to "experience" Switzerland, I would go somewhere in the Junfrau - Murren or Wengen. Montreux/Vevey didn't do too much for us after spending several days in the mountain villages of Switzerland.

Stu Dudley

neckervd

Lyon - Montreux is a 3 hrs train ride with 1 train change at Geneva. Trains about every hr.
Monteux has much more day trip possibilities by public transport than Annecy:
Lake Geneva cruises by historic steamboats
Chillon castle
Lavaux vineyards
Bouveret Vapeur Park and Aquapark
Blonay steam train
Rochers de Naye view point and rock restaurant
Gruyeres castle, cheese diary and chocolate factory
Martigny Roman theatre and museums

The train ride from Montreux to the Chamonix Valley lasts 1 1/2 hrs, trains every hr;
from Annecy it's 2 hrs, trains at 7.00, 9.32, 13.32, 15.30, 17.32, 18.32

If you go to the Mont Blanc area (highest mountains of Western Europe, tons of glaciers, 8 different cog railway resp cableway lines from the valley up to more than 2200metres/7000ft) there is really no need to go to the Jungfrau area afterwards.

But beside that, there are not many differences between the French and the Swiss side of Lake Geneva: same landscape, same climate, same language (you wouldn't realize the small differencies in the local dialects), same food (except for Fondue: Swiss people put cornstarch in it, Savoyards don't)......

StuDudley

>>Lyon - Montreux is a 3 hrs train ride with 1 train change at Geneva. Trains about every hr.<<

Where are you getting that schedule? The German train site says that in May there is only 1 mid-day "reasonable" trip from Exupery to Montreux. It leaves at 12:35 & arrives at 18:10 (5 1/2 hrs) with 2 train changes. If the OP wants to go into Lyon, there are more trains - but the trip is 3 1/2 hrs, with 2 train changes, and departures about every 2 hrs. Perhaps the summer schedules are not available yet????

There are plenty of things to do around Annecy to occupy 2 1/2 days. It occupied us for 14 days.

Stu Dudley

neckervd

Lyon - Geneve: http://www.ter-sncf.com/Regions/rhon...s/Default.aspx
Geneve - Montreux: http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

StuDudley

I checked the SNCF site, and found zero "no train change" schedules between Lyon & Geneva. What am I doing wrong??

Stu Dudley

neckervd

If you don't want to open the links I sent you above,
http://telechargement.ter-sncf.com/I...m-31-19820.pdf
I cannot help you. Sorry!

But the direct trains run nevertheless, since more than a century.

FrenchMystiqueTours

Never use google for driving time estimates as they always underestimate the time. Use viamichelin.com and realize that it is non-stop driving time and assumes no bad traffic or weather. The times are extremely accurate (outside of heavily urban areas such as Paris) and the only time you need to add is the time for your stops.

StuDudley

>>If you don't want to open the links I sent you above, <<

I did open them. I couldn't get them to work.


Stu Dudley

StuDudley

>> The times are extremely accurate (outside of heavily urban areas such as Paris) and the only time you need to add is the time for your stops.<<

I agree. I usually beat the viamichelin estimated times - but I've received 3 speeding tickets doing so.

The "stops" should include time for the invariable autoroute "deviation", when everyone in the two lanes on one side of the road are funneled into the opposite direction lane (1 lane) and the speed of travel is determined by the slowest truck. There may not be a deviation - but I always budget for one or two.

In horatio's case, there is a chance of making the wrong turn near Geneva. We did that once. The signage in Switzerland is completely opposite from the signage in France - which adds to the confusion (for me, anyway).

Stu Dudley

FrenchMystiqueTours

I always drive under the speed limit (usually 110km to 120km per hour on autoroutes) so the times don't assume you are doing top speed and I still occasionally beat the estimated time, excluding the stops I make. Most of the time I'm within 10 minutes, plus or minus, of the estimated time. Deviations are the exception and not the norm though they do occur. The times are affected, however, during peak travel times on the heavily traveled tourist routes. You can get traffic predictions from this website: http://www.infotrafic.com/home.php