Help Planning Spain Itinerary

Old Nov 27th, 2015, 09:22 AM
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Help Planning Spain Itinerary

I was originally planning a whirlwind trip to Europe including many countries over 22 days. I've now changed my mind and would like to travel more slowly. I've instead dedicated the entire 22 days to one country - Spain. This does not include travel time.

What I would like help with is planning out what cities to go to, how long to spend, and in what order. Some things to note about me are: I like architecture, tourist/historical destinations, museums, and good food. I do not care for beaches, nightlife, or relaxation. I am also a relatively fast traveler.

Here are some cities I was considering:
Madrid - day trips to Toledo, Segovia, El Escorial/Avila, Cuenca, Aranjuez?, Alcala de Henares?
Barcelona - day trip to Tarragona?, day trip to Figueres?
Sevilla - day trip to Jerez de la Frontera/ Cadiz?
Cordoba
Granada
Bilbao
San Sebastian
Valencia
Salamanca
Santiago?
Burgos?
Ronda?

As you can see, I definitely need help narrowing down the list. If you could provide your insight into your experience with these cities, I would really appreciate it. I also really need help figuring out the best route between these cities. If there is a city very much out of the way or difficult to reach by train, I would be more willing to scrap it.
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 10:43 AM
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What time of year?
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 12:17 PM
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Bilbo - I was planning on going in the beginning of May to avoid the hot weather. My plan was to start in the South and work my way up throughout the month.
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 01:10 PM
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Also add Leon to that (way too long) list.
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 01:16 PM
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If you travel by bus and train [or indeed car, come to think of it] you won't need to book in advance, except at the beginning.

I like the idea of starting in the south and working your way north - but certain places like Valencia may prove difficult to fit into this sort of model. you also need to think where you are going to fly into and out of - and how that fits into the over-all picture.
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 01:22 PM
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Definitely Granada, and you want to see the Alhambra at night as well as during the day.

Definitely Barcelona, at least three full days (four nights) and five would be better.

Definitely Salamanca - at least two full days.

I enjoyed Ronda, but as an R&R stop.

Burgos' cathedral is interesting, but Leon's is better, and Leon also has San Isadoro.

For travel, you have a choice of trains, buses and driving. There are fast trains between some cities, like Barcelona and Madrid, but not all. Travel along the north coast is best by car.

For train travel take a look at seat61.com, you can find schedules at renfe.com and bahn.de. For buses try https://www.alsa.es/en/
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 02:26 PM
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Valencia is 1:40 min by AVE from Madrid.
I visited for a week in the pasT, but in Oct. , a friend and I took an early train to Valencia
and the last back to Madrid...I was able to show her the highlights ,
even had an early dinner by the beautiful beach. A lovely city.
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 02:56 PM
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I think you will be much happier with a more focused trip!

But yes, you WILL still need to pare you wish list down, even with a preference to travel fast! I travel HARD and have spent 7.5 weeks in Spain on two different trips, and still have not seen everything you have listed. ;-)

You might want to cluster by area. For example, if you select Andalusia, consider giving the area 10 to 14 days, to include Granada (and I agree with thursdaysd about seeing the Alhambra during both the day and night), Cordoba, Sevilla, and maybe Ronda. Plenty for you to enjoy there in terms of architecture, history, some small (and underrated) museums, and (of course) great food. And all can be visited by bus or train.

You already identified another cluster – Madrid, with its outstanding museums, Toledo, Segovia, Salamanca, Avila, El Escorial, etc. That cluster can easily take another 10 -12 days, even traveling fast. Very different architecture and history, and (of course) great food. Again, easy to see by bus or train.

I enjoyed Barcelona, especially for its Modernisme and (of course) great food, and there are some very good specialized museums in and around Barcelona (e.g., museums that feature Picasso, Miro, or Dali). I must admit that for my interests (art, architecture, and scenery, among others) I preferred Andalusia and Madrid / central Spain, but there certainly is a lot to enjoy in Barcelona and Catalunya and I'm very glad I saw it on my 2nd trip to the country. Public transportation shouldn't be a problem.

I found things to enjoy in Bilbao and San Sebastian, but am not sure they fit the description of your interests as well as other areas. Bilbao's Guggenheim is, IMO, much more interesting as a building than as a museum, which of course hits your interest in architecture, but with the possible exception of the Vizcaya Bridge, I wasn't otherwise wowed by Bilbao's architecture. (Though it has some interesting buildings, of course!) And while Bilbao's Museum of Fine Arts is excellent, it doesn't begin to compare to the artistic wealth of Madrid, IMO. San Sebastian has some lovely elements and some GREAT food, but it doesn't have the architectural diversity of some other places on your list (it's mostly Belle Epoque) and while you can dine extremely well there, at pretty much any price point, you can dine well ANY where in Spain!

I also thoroughly enjoyed both Burgos and Leon, but am not sure I would make either a high priority for this trip unless one turns out to be a convenient place to stop en route. Each has a magnificent Gothic cathedral; you might see other Gothic cathedrals elsewhere. Each has some wonderful convents and monasteries; you will find others elsewhere. Leon's parador is a remarkable example of Spanish Plateresque architecture; the entire core of Salamanca is a lesson in that style.

I haven't yet visited Valencia or Santiago, so I'm no help there.

FWIW, I find trimming my wish list the hardest part of planning ANY trip. One thing that I find helpful is to identify the things you most want to see in each location, check their opening/closing times on the internet, and mark them on a calendar. Then pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together. Another thing I find really helpful is to mark up a very rough map with approximate travel times between various possible destinations (the Rough Guide usually has great info about that) so I can see what would / would not work in terms of routing.

Hope that helps!
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Old Nov 27th, 2015, 04:22 PM
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Well starting in the south makes sense but you should know that by May temps will be well up into the 80s (we had that twice in mid/late April) and can be well into the 90s. Seaside is a little cooler but inland can be hot as hell.

When planning your days realize that some places close after lunch until opening again in the evening.

I would get a Michelin green guide and do some reading to help you decide which are your must sees - rather than trying to just randomly eliminate places, esp based on other people's perceptions. It not only gives a lot of background info it also tells you how long it will take to see a site in depth.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 02:20 AM
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<My plan was to start in the South and work my way up throughout the month.>


May is serious festival time in Andalucia, most of the festivals are old and local and provide excellent opportunities to experience the food, wine, song, music, dance and fiesta spirit: http://www.andalucia.com/festival/monthlyguide-may.htm

May in Cordoba is something special, and not much beats Roman Corduba when it comes to history, and the capital of al-Andalus was the most important city in Europe in the 10th century: http://www.andalucia.com/cities/cordoba/festivals.htm

Malaga (three thousand year old Malaka) is a major museum city (50 mins with the high speed AVE Train from Cordoba):

"City of museums: Málaga bets on culture to draw tourists and talent": http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-culture-spain

"Málaga, Spain’s Self-Appointed New Arts Hub": http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/ar...-hub.html?_r=0

Bilbao is as Basque and cutting edge as it gets, and the city has gone through a profound transformation since the spectacular Guggenheim opened in 1997. http://www.designsponge.com/2014/09/...ity-guide.html

You eat very well all around Spain, but Belle Epoque San Sebastian stands out, Conde Nast Traveler recently voted it #1 food city in the world before Paris, Rome, Tokyo, Hong Kong etc. etc. And you don't need to go to one of the many Michelin star restaurants to eat extremely well here, any small restaurant or bar serving less than great food is out of business in no time in food crazy San Sebastian: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/conde-...b_7071094.html

Architecture in San Sebastian: http://www.sansebastianturismo.com/e...e-architecture

Based on your info, my suggestion would be
Malaga
Granada (90 min with bus from Malaga)
Cordoba (2h 40 mins by bus from Granada)
Madrid (1h 40 mins from Cordoba with the high speed AVE Train)
Burgos (2h 30 mins with bus/train from Madrid)
Bilbao (90 minutes from Burgos with car)
San Sebastian (60 mins from Bilbao with car, 70 mins by bus)
Barcelona (5 hours by car from San Sebastian, or one hour flight from Bilbao with low cost Vueling)
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 03:24 AM
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Great advice above, I was in Bilbo this year and cover it towards the end of this thread http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ur-spinach.cfm
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 03:32 AM
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Though I couldn't imagine traveling to Andalucia and missing Sevilla - our favorite of the larger cities in the region! I'm sure I'm not helping you any trim your itinerary, but to me that's a don't miss. Of course, you shouldn't miss any of the other places that kimhe lists, either!
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 05:50 AM
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There's also a direct ALVIA train from San Sebastian to Barcelona taking just under six hours. For some reason it doesn't show up on bahn.de, but it's on the Renfe site. Fares start at 19 euro.

I don't know that I would stop in Burgos unless you just want to break the journey. It's not in the same class as the other places om kimhe's list. If you do go, don't go on Monday as the Museum of Evolution is closed. Also be aware that the train station is five km out of town, the bus station is more convenient.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 07:00 AM
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Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I am astonished every time I log into this forum how helpful everyone really is.

Based on your replies, I am thinking of cutting the following cities out:

Ronda - seems absolutely beautiful but a little out of the way. Cuenca is on the way to Valencia and also has some of the mountainous terrain so I think I'll have have to make do with just one.

Santiago - I hate taking this one out since it seems like an amazing city but it is extremely out of the way! It seems like no major train lines connect to it.

Burgos - I am taking this out because of several comments which point out that while the cathedral is amazing, it's not worth making a special trip out just for that when one is short on time.

What do you guys think? Am I making a ginormous mistake?
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 08:07 AM
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I think cutting those cities makes sense and is a good step in the right direction.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 08:40 AM
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While 22 days may seem like a long holiday, for all the places you've listed it isn't. The important places to visit arebr /> Madrid
Toledo
Segovia
Salamanca
Seville
Cordoba
Granada
Valencia
Barcelona
San Sebastian

If you need to eliminate more, I'd let go of Valencia and San Sebastian. Still, your intinerary would be very tight.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 08:45 AM
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You could also let go of Salamanca since it is out of the way.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 09:33 AM
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Great advice from kja and bedar and everyone else. I would cut out Valencia if you need to trim, then Salamanca only because it's a little out of the way. San Sebastian is tough. It's a beautiful city with great food but 22 days is just enough to see Anadalucia, Madrid area and Barcelona area. These are places where you want to take your time and let the great culture seep in while you wander around getting lost and stopping often for tapas.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 10:09 AM
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, highlights of Valencia could be seen in a ( long ) day trip from Madrid
1:40 min. by AVE.
Although some posters prefer a longer stay in Cordoba, a day trip from Seville
is an option. Same for Toledo from Madrid.

Most of us, frequent visitors to Spain, have our favorites ...

As said earlier, it is all very subjective.
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Old Nov 28th, 2015, 02:30 PM
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On our first trip to Spain, we spent about 2 weeks exploring a large triangle where the longest edge was the northern coast, and the southernmost point was Salamanca. We never went to Barcelona or Madrid or Andalusia and we had a great time.

We have subsequently been to all those places and more, but it's not necessary to do so to enjoy Spain.
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