Help! Overwhelmed by Italy Trip Planning
Apr 19th, 2015, 07:46 AM
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Help! Overwhelmed by Italy Trip Planning
Dear Fodorites,
Please help with planning our first 2 week trip to Northern Italy the last week of May and early June. Last time we went to Italy was early 2000 before they went euro! And we spent the entire 8 days just in Rome. We just booked flights, and I'm reading some guidebooks and already feeling totally overwhelmed by so many wonderful locations and all the complicated sounding logistics--train, museum reservation, etc. Every place sounds so wonderful that I can see spending the entire week just in one location!
Please help plan a nice 1st trip to Northern. We've been dreaming of such a trip for a while, and due to our busy frequent business travels elsewhere in the world, we never made it back to Italy until now. We're husband and wife, physically active, interested in art, architecture, beautiful natural scenery, food, pretty much open to any authentic local experience!
Flights:
May 24 (Sun): Land in Milan in the morning
June 6 (Sat): Depart from Venice in the morning
So total only 13 full days
==
Wish List:
Our original wish list was:
* Milan
* Cinque Terre
* Florence
* Padua
* Venice
But now reading up on what each place has to offer and all the wonderful surrounding places, the list above is probaby impossible to do in 2 weeks? Our last trip to Italy, we ended up spending the entire 8 days in Rome because we enjoyed it so much. Should we take out Florence and do it as a separate trip later with Tuscany since, now looking at the map, I realize it's a bit out of the way? Or might as well get a sample of it now, as we don't know how long it'll take us to come back to Italy again.
We want to a nice balance between big places and small places, and don't want a total museum hopping burnout, so mixing in some nature, scenery, or just wandering around town would be nice.
Please suggest how many days in each place and anything else wonderful to see along the way. How about this:
* Milan: 3 days (too long?)
* Cinque Terre: 2 nights/3 days (where to base ourselves, we want some hiking and mix in w train/boat for convenience sake)
* Padua: 1 day trip
* Venice: Well 7 days remaining for Venice which is probably too long. Probably 3-4 days good enough?
* What else?
===
Logistics:
* Train -- so many train options. Given our rough destinations above, does it make sense to buy a Rail Pass? Which one? How?
* Museum Reservations: Please suggest any tips here. Advanced reservation required for the time of the year we're going? (last week of May, and 1st week of June)?
Really realy appreciate any help you Fodorites can provide, and in the meantime, I'll scour your past trip reports. Thank you!
Please help with planning our first 2 week trip to Northern Italy the last week of May and early June. Last time we went to Italy was early 2000 before they went euro! And we spent the entire 8 days just in Rome. We just booked flights, and I'm reading some guidebooks and already feeling totally overwhelmed by so many wonderful locations and all the complicated sounding logistics--train, museum reservation, etc. Every place sounds so wonderful that I can see spending the entire week just in one location!
Please help plan a nice 1st trip to Northern. We've been dreaming of such a trip for a while, and due to our busy frequent business travels elsewhere in the world, we never made it back to Italy until now. We're husband and wife, physically active, interested in art, architecture, beautiful natural scenery, food, pretty much open to any authentic local experience!
Flights:
May 24 (Sun): Land in Milan in the morning
June 6 (Sat): Depart from Venice in the morning
So total only 13 full days
==
Wish List:
Our original wish list was:
* Milan
* Cinque Terre
* Florence
* Padua
* Venice
But now reading up on what each place has to offer and all the wonderful surrounding places, the list above is probaby impossible to do in 2 weeks? Our last trip to Italy, we ended up spending the entire 8 days in Rome because we enjoyed it so much. Should we take out Florence and do it as a separate trip later with Tuscany since, now looking at the map, I realize it's a bit out of the way? Or might as well get a sample of it now, as we don't know how long it'll take us to come back to Italy again.
We want to a nice balance between big places and small places, and don't want a total museum hopping burnout, so mixing in some nature, scenery, or just wandering around town would be nice.
Please suggest how many days in each place and anything else wonderful to see along the way. How about this:
* Milan: 3 days (too long?)
* Cinque Terre: 2 nights/3 days (where to base ourselves, we want some hiking and mix in w train/boat for convenience sake)
* Padua: 1 day trip
* Venice: Well 7 days remaining for Venice which is probably too long. Probably 3-4 days good enough?
* What else?
===
Logistics:
* Train -- so many train options. Given our rough destinations above, does it make sense to buy a Rail Pass? Which one? How?
* Museum Reservations: Please suggest any tips here. Advanced reservation required for the time of the year we're going? (last week of May, and 1st week of June)?
Really realy appreciate any help you Fodorites can provide, and in the meantime, I'll scour your past trip reports. Thank you!
Apr 19th, 2015, 08:03 AM
#2
My thoughts.
1) The first day in Milan is going to be a washout either with jet lag, getting to find your way around, etc etc.
2) If you want to do Milan at all then you need a full day on the ground so that requires 2 nights. (best to plan by nights or hotels)
3) If you have planned to stay 3 nights then you can spend time in a day trip say to Bergamo but there are other old cities nearby that are easy to access by train.
4) Passes, read this http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm#.VTPRGvBriSo
5) my view is Florence needs at least 3 nights to enjoy it, do you have the time
6) Padua is a good day trip from Venice
7) Venice for 3 nights leaves you 3 to 4 nights for somewhere like, Bologna, Ferrara, Mandova Ravenna in the PO delta of maybe Siena in Tuscany (Tuscany benefits by having a car though you can use public transport to get around)
1) The first day in Milan is going to be a washout either with jet lag, getting to find your way around, etc etc.
2) If you want to do Milan at all then you need a full day on the ground so that requires 2 nights. (best to plan by nights or hotels)
3) If you have planned to stay 3 nights then you can spend time in a day trip say to Bergamo but there are other old cities nearby that are easy to access by train.
4) Passes, read this http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm#.VTPRGvBriSo
5) my view is Florence needs at least 3 nights to enjoy it, do you have the time
6) Padua is a good day trip from Venice
7) Venice for 3 nights leaves you 3 to 4 nights for somewhere like, Bologna, Ferrara, Mandova Ravenna in the PO delta of maybe Siena in Tuscany (Tuscany benefits by having a car though you can use public transport to get around)
Apr 19th, 2015, 08:12 AM
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Train -- so many train options. Given our rough destinations above, does it make sense to buy a Rail Pass? Which one? How?>
Most of your train trips are rather short and Milan to 5 Terre is mainly by IC or regional trains which are very cheap - you can look at the Italy Eurailpass but also compare normal fares at www.trenitalia.com and see that a pass is probably not cost-effective in your case - plus on high-speed trains with a pass you must pay 10 euros extra for the mandated seat reservation.
For a good fix on Italian trains check not only www.seat61.com as mentioned by bilbo above but also www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
Id suggest jettisoning Milan instead of Florence if you have to pare down - Florence is only a few hours by rail from Milan - you could go - Milan - 5 Terre - Florence - Venice and do Padua as an easy day trip from Venice.
Most of your train trips are rather short and Milan to 5 Terre is mainly by IC or regional trains which are very cheap - you can look at the Italy Eurailpass but also compare normal fares at www.trenitalia.com and see that a pass is probably not cost-effective in your case - plus on high-speed trains with a pass you must pay 10 euros extra for the mandated seat reservation.
For a good fix on Italian trains check not only www.seat61.com as mentioned by bilbo above but also www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.
Id suggest jettisoning Milan instead of Florence if you have to pare down - Florence is only a few hours by rail from Milan - you could go - Milan - 5 Terre - Florence - Venice and do Padua as an easy day trip from Venice.
Apr 19th, 2015, 09:04 AM
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Hi,
My first trip to Italy I deliberately skipped Florence, even though my major interest in life is Western European art, for the same reasons you are considering it. So I am sympathetic, but in the end it is only up to you.
That said, in 13 days you can certainly visit all of the destinations you have chosen and have a good experience of them, including Florence if you would like to see some of it now. The logistics are very simple. But if you decide to take some out so you can spend more time in the ones that remain, the logistics will also remain simple. Likewise if you want to do "day trips."
But for the moment, assuming that you want to spend some time in all of the destinations you named, here is the easiest ways to do it.
Land in Milano. Spend the afternoon and night in Milano.
As soon as you feel like it, take an early afternoon train from Milano to the le Cinque Terre village of of your choice. There are some easy trains that require only one change in easy statiosn. Spend as many days in le Cinque Terre as you like.
From there, it is an easy train ride to Firenze (Florence), with only one train change.
From Florence, one suggestion would be to take a fast train to Venezia, and visit Padova ( as a day trip) from Venezia. But you could also stop by Padova on your way to Venezia. You can store your luggage in the train station.
Only you can decide how much time you want in each location, or if you would like to eliminate something, but I disagree with much of the above advice. Many people spend less than a full day in Milan and see everything that interests them most. In fact, many people arriving early in the morning in Milan put their luggage in the train station, go do some sightseeing, then pick up their luggage and move on. But even those who spend a night in Milan often leave after lunch the next day, having seen all they wanted to. Some enjoy spending days there.
Others may disagree with me, because people here obviously like to offer up their opinions, and you are asking for advice, but my opnion is that you would be making a big error to rely too much other people's opinons -- especially people who don't know you -- about where you should spend your time in Italy. Everybody who goes to Italy ends up with very strong feelings about what they think is great and what disappointed them. Very few people would enjoy 8 days in Rome -- but you did, so bear that it mind when people tell you that this or that destination should be skipped or needs this/that amount of time.
I would never take a day trip to Bergamo from Milan. I would never give up seeing the Last Supper in Milan or Michaelangelo's Rondanini Pieta in Milan. I can't stand Siena. Obviously other people will urge you to do just the opposite of what I just said because they enjoy what I don't. If you ask 10 people, you will get 10 very definite opinions that mostly all contradict each other.
I realize your trip is not far off, but I would recommend making a few lists of what and your partner would like to do in Milano, le Cinque Terre, Firenze, Padova and Venezia. Once you decide whether Firenze is in or out, maybe make a different post asking for new advice about how to best fill those days if you don't want to merely stretch out the time you spend in the remaining four.
My first trip to Italy I deliberately skipped Florence, even though my major interest in life is Western European art, for the same reasons you are considering it. So I am sympathetic, but in the end it is only up to you.
That said, in 13 days you can certainly visit all of the destinations you have chosen and have a good experience of them, including Florence if you would like to see some of it now. The logistics are very simple. But if you decide to take some out so you can spend more time in the ones that remain, the logistics will also remain simple. Likewise if you want to do "day trips."
But for the moment, assuming that you want to spend some time in all of the destinations you named, here is the easiest ways to do it.
Land in Milano. Spend the afternoon and night in Milano.
As soon as you feel like it, take an early afternoon train from Milano to the le Cinque Terre village of of your choice. There are some easy trains that require only one change in easy statiosn. Spend as many days in le Cinque Terre as you like.
From there, it is an easy train ride to Firenze (Florence), with only one train change.
From Florence, one suggestion would be to take a fast train to Venezia, and visit Padova ( as a day trip) from Venezia. But you could also stop by Padova on your way to Venezia. You can store your luggage in the train station.
Only you can decide how much time you want in each location, or if you would like to eliminate something, but I disagree with much of the above advice. Many people spend less than a full day in Milan and see everything that interests them most. In fact, many people arriving early in the morning in Milan put their luggage in the train station, go do some sightseeing, then pick up their luggage and move on. But even those who spend a night in Milan often leave after lunch the next day, having seen all they wanted to. Some enjoy spending days there.
Others may disagree with me, because people here obviously like to offer up their opinions, and you are asking for advice, but my opnion is that you would be making a big error to rely too much other people's opinons -- especially people who don't know you -- about where you should spend your time in Italy. Everybody who goes to Italy ends up with very strong feelings about what they think is great and what disappointed them. Very few people would enjoy 8 days in Rome -- but you did, so bear that it mind when people tell you that this or that destination should be skipped or needs this/that amount of time.
I would never take a day trip to Bergamo from Milan. I would never give up seeing the Last Supper in Milan or Michaelangelo's Rondanini Pieta in Milan. I can't stand Siena. Obviously other people will urge you to do just the opposite of what I just said because they enjoy what I don't. If you ask 10 people, you will get 10 very definite opinions that mostly all contradict each other.
I realize your trip is not far off, but I would recommend making a few lists of what and your partner would like to do in Milano, le Cinque Terre, Firenze, Padova and Venezia. Once you decide whether Firenze is in or out, maybe make a different post asking for new advice about how to best fill those days if you don't want to merely stretch out the time you spend in the remaining four.
Apr 19th, 2015, 09:25 AM
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I would start with a list of what you actually want to see and do - I mean specific places. First check which days they are open, then determine how long it will take to see things. Michelin green guide is good for this - you don;t want to try to see the Uffizi in an hour or spend 4 hours on a 1 hour hike.
This will tell you how many places you can get to in way that will make you happy - and the open/shut days will help you decide in what order.
My personal POV:
Milan is primarily a business city and one day would be plenty for me
I would bag the CT (mobbed and I don;t "hike" and spend a couple of days in the lakes (Como or Maggiore) instead for a relaxing interval
This will tell you how many places you can get to in way that will make you happy - and the open/shut days will help you decide in what order.
My personal POV:
Milan is primarily a business city and one day would be plenty for me
I would bag the CT (mobbed and I don;t "hike" and spend a couple of days in the lakes (Como or Maggiore) instead for a relaxing interval
Apr 19th, 2015, 09:35 AM
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I agree with most of the above posters. One night in Milan to recover and see the duomo and maybe the Brera, go to CT if it really appeals, and leave yourself time to appreciate Florence and Venice. Padua is wonderful but works well as a day trip from Venice, only 30 minutes by train.
Apr 19th, 2015, 09:52 AM
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Milan (24-25)
- 1.5 days in Milan to see the last supper, duomo, etc. The expo is there this year if you're interested and it may make you want to have an extra day there.
CT (26-28)
- train takes about 3 hours. Like nytraveler said, I'd probably skip CT in favour of Como, but that's up to you. CT might not be as crowded in May. As for where to base yourselves, I think either Vernazza, Manorola or Riomaggiore is fine. Monterosso is beautiful but didn't have the same feel or charm the other villages had and Camogli has 365 steps to climb from the station. Not so fun with luggage.
Florence (29-1)
- Florence is really compact so I think you'd be able to fit in a lot. Maybe from La Spezia to Florence you can stop at Pisa.
Venice (2-5)
- Train from Florence to Venice is about 2 hours. You can have 2.5 days in Venice and a day trip to Padua.
Figure out specific itineraries and then move the dates around.
- 1.5 days in Milan to see the last supper, duomo, etc. The expo is there this year if you're interested and it may make you want to have an extra day there.
CT (26-28)
- train takes about 3 hours. Like nytraveler said, I'd probably skip CT in favour of Como, but that's up to you. CT might not be as crowded in May. As for where to base yourselves, I think either Vernazza, Manorola or Riomaggiore is fine. Monterosso is beautiful but didn't have the same feel or charm the other villages had and Camogli has 365 steps to climb from the station. Not so fun with luggage.
Florence (29-1)
- Florence is really compact so I think you'd be able to fit in a lot. Maybe from La Spezia to Florence you can stop at Pisa.
Venice (2-5)
- Train from Florence to Venice is about 2 hours. You can have 2.5 days in Venice and a day trip to Padua.
Figure out specific itineraries and then move the dates around.
Apr 19th, 2015, 10:56 AM
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i'd be tempted to assume there will be more trips in the years ahead and concentrate this time on the north.
Milan a couple of days,Verona a couple of days and Venice as bases. Then day trips to Vicenza and Padua and maybe up to the lakes.
Ild leave CT, Florence and Pisa for the next trip.
Milan a couple of days,Verona a couple of days and Venice as bases. Then day trips to Vicenza and Padua and maybe up to the lakes.
Ild leave CT, Florence and Pisa for the next trip.
Apr 19th, 2015, 12:55 PM
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I agree with photoman
For me probably one of the most difficult questions to answer for someone else is "How long should I spend visiting (fill in the blank)? As for me, hurrying from one place to another does not make for a good vacation. Having said that, I would suggest Florence, Sienna and the hill towns as one vacation and Cinqua Terre, Milan, the Lakes, Venice, Padua, and Verona as another trip.
Do you like art and gardens and architecture? If so, please don't hurry. Take some time and savor it. Sit and look would be my suggestion. Again that's just me and that travel philosophy would drive most people crazy.
Another peculuraality of our vacations, especially one like you are putting together is to rent a car. We have found it really isn't that expensive compared to train travel for two or more people and it makes scheduling so much easier.
A couple of comments about some of the things we did at the recommendation of others and found to be worthwhile to pass along.
On our visit to Cinqu Terre we didn't stay in one of the five villages. Instead we stayed in Portrovenere and went back and forth. Part of the reason was that we couldn't find suitable accommodations and secondly it was recommended by friends that we use that approach and it worked great for us.
My spouse loved Venice (a lot) and I did not. It was very, very crowded with cruise boats filling the harbor and although I'm used to touristy places it was a little too much for me. On the other hand I loved Lake Como and could have stayed there a week. Yep, it was crowed too but not nearly to the extent of Venice. We also thought the food was best at Portovenere and Lake Como.
For me probably one of the most difficult questions to answer for someone else is "How long should I spend visiting (fill in the blank)? As for me, hurrying from one place to another does not make for a good vacation. Having said that, I would suggest Florence, Sienna and the hill towns as one vacation and Cinqua Terre, Milan, the Lakes, Venice, Padua, and Verona as another trip.
Do you like art and gardens and architecture? If so, please don't hurry. Take some time and savor it. Sit and look would be my suggestion. Again that's just me and that travel philosophy would drive most people crazy.
Another peculuraality of our vacations, especially one like you are putting together is to rent a car. We have found it really isn't that expensive compared to train travel for two or more people and it makes scheduling so much easier.
A couple of comments about some of the things we did at the recommendation of others and found to be worthwhile to pass along.
On our visit to Cinqu Terre we didn't stay in one of the five villages. Instead we stayed in Portrovenere and went back and forth. Part of the reason was that we couldn't find suitable accommodations and secondly it was recommended by friends that we use that approach and it worked great for us.
My spouse loved Venice (a lot) and I did not. It was very, very crowded with cruise boats filling the harbor and although I'm used to touristy places it was a little too much for me. On the other hand I loved Lake Como and could have stayed there a week. Yep, it was crowed too but not nearly to the extent of Venice. We also thought the food was best at Portovenere and Lake Como.
Apr 19th, 2015, 12:58 PM
#11
I find that a good way of planning is to work out what I will be doing every day and to see how it fits:
May 24 (Sun): Land in Milan in the morning.
May 25 [Mon] see the Last Supper if you can get tickets. If so, go to the CT in the pm, otherwise go there straight away.
May 26 [Tues] CT
May 27 [Wed] CT
May 28 [Thurs] train to Florence.
May 29 [Fri] Florence
May 30 [Sat] Florence - ? day trip to Siena ?
May 31 [Sun] Florence
June 1 [Mon] train to Venice - a good day to travel as lots of places close on Mondays
June 2 [Tues] Venice
June 3 [Wed] Venice. ? day trip to Padua?
June 4 [Thurs] Venice
June 5 [Fri] Venice
June 6 [Sat] fly home
This would suit your travel style of spending longer in a few places, but still enable you to see the places that you have listed.
May 24 (Sun): Land in Milan in the morning.
May 25 [Mon] see the Last Supper if you can get tickets. If so, go to the CT in the pm, otherwise go there straight away.
May 26 [Tues] CT
May 27 [Wed] CT
May 28 [Thurs] train to Florence.
May 29 [Fri] Florence
May 30 [Sat] Florence - ? day trip to Siena ?
May 31 [Sun] Florence
June 1 [Mon] train to Venice - a good day to travel as lots of places close on Mondays
June 2 [Tues] Venice
June 3 [Wed] Venice. ? day trip to Padua?
June 4 [Thurs] Venice
June 5 [Fri] Venice
June 6 [Sat] fly home
This would suit your travel style of spending longer in a few places, but still enable you to see the places that you have listed.
Apr 19th, 2015, 12:59 PM
#12
One thing to keep in mind is that in the Cinque Terre, many of the coastal hikes are closed due to weather, mudslides or rockslides. There are others, but we were just there a few weeks ago and only Monterosso to Vernazza was open. So I would factor in the unreliability of being able to hike into your CT plans. We stayed in Levanto, which was quite literally a 4 minutes train ride to Monterosso and it was fine.
Apr 19th, 2015, 06:15 PM
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JC98, I'm there same time as you -- arrive in Florence, though, on May 25, and fly out on June. 8. I'm spending 3 nights in Turin, 3 nights Lake Como, 2 nights Montecatini Terme, 3 nights Spello, and 3 nights Florence. I was last in Cinque Terre in the early '90s and it was amazing -- but given its rise in popularity, and crowds, I decided to be content with my memories of it .
I plan to do walk from Spello to Assisi one day for some beautiful hiking.
I've booked all of my long distance trains and will buy regionals when I'm there. Can't wait!
.I plan to do walk from Spello to Assisi one day for some beautiful hiking.
I've booked all of my long distance trains and will buy regionals when I'm there. Can't wait!
Apr 19th, 2015, 10:29 PM
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Thank you,all, for the great suggestions! So much to process!
Will have a lot more questions later but for now a quick question or more like cry for help: It looks like all tickets for The Last Supper have sold out on May 24 (Sunday), per online website. We only have Sunday and Monday in Milan and the chapel is closed on Monday. What to do? Should we stay til Tuesday or once landed in Milan airport, just head out to somewhere and come back to Milan later. Some backtracking though.
It's a must see for me else not worth going to Milan. Thanks!
Will have a lot more questions later but for now a quick question or more like cry for help: It looks like all tickets for The Last Supper have sold out on May 24 (Sunday), per online website. We only have Sunday and Monday in Milan and the chapel is closed on Monday. What to do? Should we stay til Tuesday or once landed in Milan airport, just head out to somewhere and come back to Milan later. Some backtracking though.
It's a must see for me else not worth going to Milan. Thanks!
Apr 20th, 2015, 02:18 AM
#15
JC - if the Last Supper is a must, why not go straight to the CT from Milan [you land early I seem to remember] then return to Milan for a night so that you can see the Last Supper on the Wednesday or Thursday?
it would still fit in with your overall itinerary.
it would still fit in with your overall itinerary.
Apr 20th, 2015, 08:33 AM
#16
You learn so much from this site, I went to Milan to see the cemetries which are out of this world. The Duomo is a good visit, but just watching the skinny people (so they can fit in the best clothes) or saying hi to the sex-workers or visiting the Opera when the noisy people were not in makes for a good day.
While the main station is fantastic.
Each to their own.
While the main station is fantastic.
Each to their own.
Apr 20th, 2015, 08:52 AM
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Milan to me is also a fascinating city - having spent several days there off and on - some neat parks and a lively bit of free concerts, etc. But for many it is just a big modern rather smoggy city that just does not have the ambience of say a Florence or Rome or the ancient look of those cities' historical centres.
but yes like bilbo there are things I loved about Miland - yes like the huge chaotic train station!
but yes like bilbo there are things I loved about Miland - yes like the huge chaotic train station!
Apr 20th, 2015, 04:32 PM
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Thanks, all. We'll check again for tickets. Any other museums that we need to buy tickets way in advance like for the Last Supper? How about the Uffizi? Is the Firenze Card worth it? How horrible are the lines in Florence for late May/early June?
Regarding buying inter-city train tickets, do we need to buy ahead of time or just show up at the train station and we can get tickets? If we find Milan interesting, may stay longer or just leave earlier to CT.
Thanks!
Regarding buying inter-city train tickets, do we need to buy ahead of time or just show up at the train station and we can get tickets? If we find Milan interesting, may stay longer or just leave earlier to CT.
Thanks!
Apr 21st, 2015, 05:40 AM
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IC and regional trains serve the routes to the 5 Terre and there is no reason to buy regional train tickets - same price at station - IC has a similar flat fare on this line I believe- anyway uyes just show up and nab ducats.
