GlennBev

2 couples just turned 60, seaoned european travellers want to visit Eastern Europe and Greek Islands. First draft itinerary is
2 nights Ljubljana - train to Bled
2 nights Bled - hire car, drive to
1 night Bovec - drive to
1 night Ljubljana (drop off hire car)
Rovinj by train - 2 nights - hire car, tour Istria area
1 night Plitvice Lakes
1 night Split (drop off hire car)
2 nights Hvar or Korcula
2 nights Sarajevo - hire car
2 nights Dubrovnik - drop off rental car, incl 1 day cruise islands south of Dubrovnik, day trip to Montenegro by bus
Now the difficult bit - fly Dubrovnik to Athens = 10+ hours
2 nights Athens
9 nights Greek Islands (probably 3 nights 3 islands)

Not sure if the Greek part is viable from time and cost point of view. Maybe we should spend more time in East. Europe and stay in towns longer or visit more places.
We very much look forward to accessing the wisdom and knowledge of the Fodorites.

thursdaysd

60 isn't old, I thought you were talking 80. My last trip to Eastern Europe I was mid-sixties. Click on my name for my "B" trip TRs.

I would slow down and postpone Greece. Plitvice is worth two nights, that's one full day. You don't need a car between Sarajevo and Dubrovnik and it's no use in either town. I would stop in Mostar for a night n the way.

Two nights in Dubrovnik is one day, not enough time for what you have planned. Use this to pick a day with the fewest cruise ship arrivals: http://www.portdubrovnik.hr/girica1.php Montenegro is worth more than a day trip.

IMDonehere

Those one day trips will kill ya.

kja

I agree with thrusdaysd (as usual!) -- defer Greece for another time, and add the time to Croatia, Slovenia, etc. I also agree that an overnight stay in Mostar is well worth considering. Other places that I think you might want to consider adding time: Rovinj, Split (1-2 nights, depending on your interests, and to include Trogir), at least one more night in Sarajevo, probably another night in Dubrovnik since you plan to do a day trip from there to Montenegro. And there are lots of other interesting places to consider -- Zagreb, Varazdin, Lovran, Rab, Zadar, Sibenik....

Oh, and rather than split your time in Ljubljana, you might go straight to Bled: The airport is halfway between them.

It is a beautiful part of the world -- enjoy!

GlennBev

Thanks for your amazingly quick replies. Sorry thursdaysd, hope we didn't offend, I agree old is when you feel old, we hope to be travelling for a long time yet. We're now going to email the other couple so that they can get into Fodor. Then back to the research. Will post a new itinerary soon. We look forward to more feedback. Cheers

bilboburgler

If you are looking at Hvar, try also to do some more island hoping. Hvar gets a good press but is not the nest. I like Brac but you can work your way down the islands by Ferry and experience a Greek island type hoiday but outside Greece.

As others say slow down a bit, but not too much.

Which months are you looking at?

cathies

Jaysus, when did 60 get to be an 'oldie'!

If you are seasoned travellers as you claim then you will understand that 1 night or 2 nights in a place leaves very little to actually see anything. It seems that you will spend a lot of time in the car watching countryside whizz past.

I agree that Greece is probably not the right mix for this trip.

nytraveler

Sorry - 60 is definitely inthe Middle-aged category.

Seniors come in ther somewhere

Oldies is 85 plus

And I agree that you re trying to cover too much in too little time - most places need more than 1 day to see much of anything.

GlennBev

Thank you all for setting me straight about what is old. I hope that we are still holidaying when we're 80. Also point taken about time spent we don't usually spend only a day or 2 in places. I guess our initial itinerary relects our desire to see a reasonable amount of E Europe before we went to Greece - obviously this was a mistake. Since our first post we have done a little more research on the Croatian Islands, no doubt it would be easy to spend plenty of time here.
Bilboburgler - we plan to start our holiday middle May next year for 5 - 6 weeks.
Once again thank you all

cathies

Hi again, 5-6 weeks is such a luxury that it's even more of a reason to slow the whole trip down. I hope you have a great time.

We are just home from Italy and spent a few days with a friend who inherited his grandfather's villa in a little village called Gradisca which is only 7kms from the Slovenian border. The countryside around there is stunning and we can't wait to return and explore in more detail.

kja

cathies wrote: "1 night or 2 nights in a place leaves very little to actually see anything" -- In general, I agree. But IMO, some of the places that are well worth seeing in Croatia are so small that a day or so really is quite reasonable. Many of those places can be seen on long day trips from a base, but with a LOT of backtracking; some are harder to see on a day trip. So IME, if travelers are aware of the downsides of short stays, they can be worth considering.

bilboburgler

May is good you will find more hotels empty at that time and it is easy to get around and finishing in June will also pre-crowds. Nights may be chilly though up in the hills, still you get better flowers in the hills at that time too.

GlennBev

Thank you all for your sage advice. Have discussed with our travel mates and we have dropped Greek Isles and will concentrate on Bosnia Hervegovina, Slovenia and Croatia and maybe Montenegro. We'll also be staying on some of the beautiful islands. Will after more research and hopefully more huidance from you guys. Cheers

GlennBev

ITINERARY #2
Ljubljana - 2 nights - hire car drive to Bled
Bled - 2n - drive to Buvec
Buvec - 1n - drive to Ljubljana - drop off hire car
Ljubljana - 1n - bus or train to Rovinj
Rovinj - 2n - hire car - drive to Istria area, then to
Plitvice Lakes - 2n - drive to Slit drop off car
Split - 2n - ferry to Hvar Island
Hvar Island - 3n - ferry to Vis Island
Vis Island - 2n - ferry to Split - hire car drive to Dubrovnik - drop off car
Dubrovnik - 3n
Now on to Bosnia, we are unsure best method of travel, not even sure if, at the moment, there is a train. Are trying to determine best method of travel - itinerary (but still thinking) -
Sarajevo - 3n
Mostar - 1n
Dubrovnik - 1n - ferry to Korcula Island
Korcula Island - 2n - ferry to Mljet Island
Mljet Island - 2n
Back to somewhere to fly back to Oz

kja

You've made some real progress!

"Ljubljana - 2 nights - ... drive to Ljubljana - 1n" -- If you are flying into Ljubljana, pick up your rental and go strait to Bled. The airport (which has car rental desks) is half-way between Ljubljana and Bled (about an hour from each) so there is no reason to add an extra unnecessary change of hotels into the mix!

"Rovinj - 2n" - this could be perfect, or it could be a night too short, depending on what you want to visit in the area. Do consider including enough time to visit the magnificent basilica in Porec!

"Split - 2n" -- again, this could be perfect, or it could be a night too short, depending on what you want to visit in the area. If you want to spent a half-day in Trogir (well worth it, IMO) AND see the best of Split, you'll need at least 1.5 days in Split, if not 2 days.

"ferry to Split - hire car drive to Dubrovnik" -- If you end up traveling by land from Split to Dubrovnik, do consider taking the bus -- the views are stunning, and it will be much nicer for all involved to be able to enjoy the views rather than watching the road. The bus is quite comfortable, as I recall.

"Dubrovnik - 3n ... Now on to Bosnia" Sorry, but I'm not following the logic for your route. Another option might be (if ferry schedules oblige) to go from Split to Vis, then through Hvar to Korcula, and then on to Dubrovnik; see everything you want to see in southern Croatia, then move back through Mostar to Sarajevo and fly out of there. Check out your options to see what makes most sense and gives you the least backtracking.

"not even sure if, at the moment, there is a train. Are trying to determine best method of travel" -- No trains south of Split. There is a bus between Mostar and Dubrovnik. There is a train (and perhaps a bus) between Mostar and Sarajevo. Do you have the Rough Guide for the area? It has excellent information about your transportation options, along with more comprehensive information about sites than many guidebooks and some excellent maps.

"Dubrovnik - 3n ...Dubrovnik - 1n" Again, do try to consolidate your stays.

You might want to consider shifting a couple of nights from islands along the southern coast of Croatia to islands or places further north, between Istria and Split because they are actually quite different. Just something to consider.

Despite these comments, I think it will be a much more enjoyable trip than the one you had originally contemplated!

bilboburgler

Good idea to dump the car before you go island hopping. It allows you to access more ferries and since most of the islands have their towns where the port is (and the word port is glorifying what is normally one spit a bunch of fishing boats), if an island has two ports then there will be either a bus between or taxis.

On the Islands do remember you are getting into a part of the world where being on time is less likely, so chill a bit and switch off the NA drive

GlennBev

We are in need of fine tuning help with part of our travels.
Once we hire a car in Rovinj:

- Drive to Pula (not sure to stay night or just take time look around) - if overnight then next day - if not all way to Plitvice lakes including things below

- Drive Pula to Opatija do walk along promendade to Volosko and back

- Drive to Rijeka onto Senj then inland to Plitvice Lakes (2/3 nights stay)

- Drive from Plitvice Lakes to Trogir/Split either:
1. via hilltop towns of Gospic - Obrovac - Knin OR
2. via Paklenica National Park to coast and Zadar

kja

> Opatija do walk along promendade to Volosko and back

I really hated Opatija -- seriously hated it. I did the other part of the Lungomare -- from Lovran to Opatija. I like the stretch nearest Lovran best -- truly a delight.

>Drive to Rijeka onto Senj

Be warned that the traffic around Rijeka can be truly awful. Be prepared for LONG traffic jams and delays.

I visited Nehaj Fortress in Senj -- it was OK. I wouldn't make a special trip to see it, but thought it a decent place for a break in a long drive.

> Plitvice Lakes (2/3 nights stay)

2 nights -- so one full day -- is sufficient for most people.

Hope that helps!

kja

Oh -- and if your purpose for taking the route through Zadar would be so you can take a break on your way, note that the Old Town is not generally accessible by car. So you would have to go through a lot of urban traffic, find a place to park, and then walk some distance into the Old Town -- and it is a relatively large Old Town, with interesting sites scattered at some distance from each other. I really enjoyed Zadar, but think it would be best seen if you could devote the better part of a day (or more) to it.

If you just want an interesting place to stop for an hour or two as a break from the drive, you might consider tiny, lovely Nin. (Not Knin, Nin.)

yorkshire

If your intent in walking from Opatija to Volosko is to enjoy the restaurants in Volosko, then that is a good plan indeed!
This is the first time I have not had the same opinion as kja, but I loved Opatija--surprisingly, as I really did not expect to and just stopped there to shake off jet lag en route from Zagreb to the islands. I liked Lovran more, but I found both to have such a pleasant vibe.
Lucky you--the coastal drive from Pula to Lovran is just gorgeous!