Have EU rules destroyed european cuisine??
Apr 16th, 2004, 10:31 PM
#1
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Have EU rules destroyed european cuisine??
Just read on a news website for one of the "about to be EU" member countries that EU regulations will make it impossible to serve several types of popular dishes (in restaurants) in the Czech Republic and Poland.
So I am wondering - and this is a question for you Fodorites who have travelled to various European countries pre and post EU - did the food change? Did it become less unique and more uniform?? Or did you notice a difference at all??
So I am wondering - and this is a question for you Fodorites who have travelled to various European countries pre and post EU - did the food change? Did it become less unique and more uniform?? Or did you notice a difference at all??
Apr 16th, 2004, 10:52 PM
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I believe you misunderstood the article. EU does not require any one member to change their public food offerings. What EU requires is uniformity and certain level of quality from the food suppliers. Quality control has to be brought up to EU standards.
You will still be able to have potato and cheese pierogis soaked in melted butter and topped with chilled sour cream and bacon. You could still get a heart attack after, with the knowledge that at least it was made from quality ingredients.
You will still be able to have potato and cheese pierogis soaked in melted butter and topped with chilled sour cream and bacon. You could still get a heart attack after, with the knowledge that at least it was made from quality ingredients.
Apr 16th, 2004, 11:03 PM
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Just to clarify:
Food suppliers = basically farmers/corporate farming that either will or will not be allowed to sell to food processors and/or wholesalers, exporters, etc., depending if they will meet the quality control required by EU.
In order to be able to ship their end product to any other EU member it has to meet certain quality control standards.
Food suppliers = basically farmers/corporate farming that either will or will not be allowed to sell to food processors and/or wholesalers, exporters, etc., depending if they will meet the quality control required by EU.
In order to be able to ship their end product to any other EU member it has to meet certain quality control standards.
Apr 17th, 2004, 03:05 AM
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Yes, Borealis, and the bananas have to be straight too!
I'm afraid this is the sort of scaremongering that goes on about EU membership all the time. It's usually nonsense and it usually gets sorted.
We do have serious questions arise about, for example, what is a "sausage", which obviously varies from region to region to region never mind country to country. So there'll be a debate about and during it someone will say "Lincolnshire sausages to be banned by EU" or some such gibberish.
You do get odd things tho' Some supermarkets had to stop selling "jam" because their product had too much fruit. So they now sell "conserves" instead.
I'm afraid this is the sort of scaremongering that goes on about EU membership all the time. It's usually nonsense and it usually gets sorted.
We do have serious questions arise about, for example, what is a "sausage", which obviously varies from region to region to region never mind country to country. So there'll be a debate about and during it someone will say "Lincolnshire sausages to be banned by EU" or some such gibberish.
You do get odd things tho' Some supermarkets had to stop selling "jam" because their product had too much fruit. So they now sell "conserves" instead.
Apr 17th, 2004, 03:54 AM
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Difficult EC food regs are ignored in many parts of Europe where they clash with local custom, hence you may sit at at bar with cured hams hanging up around you even though its not really legal.
Some say these regs are better observed in the UK, but as we mostly eat factory food here it doesn't affect us as much.One effect is that fish & chips may no longer be served wrapped in newspaper as the ink is even more poisonous than the text.
The regs are often just used as a way to do down the competition as in the UK Vs European "chocolate" debate.I believe one can now sell Parma ham made in England.(but not US beef!)
Some say these regs are better observed in the UK, but as we mostly eat factory food here it doesn't affect us as much.One effect is that fish & chips may no longer be served wrapped in newspaper as the ink is even more poisonous than the text.
The regs are often just used as a way to do down the competition as in the UK Vs European "chocolate" debate.I believe one can now sell Parma ham made in England.(but not US beef!)
Apr 17th, 2004, 06:19 AM
#6
We know some Kosovo refugee families whose favorite delicacy in the old country was...........cow lung.
Prohibited from sale in the U.S., this item might well be accorded similar treatment in the EU., I don't know.
But I'll take wildrahmschnitzel mit pfefferlingen und lingonbeeren any day.
Prohibited from sale in the U.S., this item might well be accorded similar treatment in the EU., I don't know.
But I'll take wildrahmschnitzel mit pfefferlingen und lingonbeeren any day.
Apr 17th, 2004, 06:53 AM
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Some things such as cheeses made from unpasteurized milk are theoretically at risk from EU regulations, but so far I don't think anything has actually been legislated out of existence. The more likely killer is increasing availability of large-label foods, e.g. Kraft "cheeses", which are havily advertised and get supermarket shelf space, squeezing out less-known local specialties (augh!). In Italy at least, though, there is still plenty of appreciation of the local goodies.
To combat food globalization, you can learn about, try, appreciate, and buy these foods, so that their producers can stay in business. Slow Food (www.slowfood.com) is a good way to learn and to help.
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan
http://www.straughan.com
To combat food globalization, you can learn about, try, appreciate, and buy these foods, so that their producers can stay in business. Slow Food (www.slowfood.com) is a good way to learn and to help.
best regards,
Deirdré Straughan
http://www.straughan.com
Apr 17th, 2004, 02:14 PM
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I'm with Sheila on this one, with a couple of glosses:
Well-organised commercial interests can and do influence the development in legislation in the EU even more than at member state level, mainly because it starts with governments agreeing some fairly windy generalisations late ar night, which over-stretched and under-specialised Eurocrats have to put into practice. So the 'experts' come up with all sorts of ideas that just happen to suit the large conglomerates.
So (especially where you have small numbers of large producers and large retail supermarkets) you might well find that all sorts of traditional varieties of raw materials (e.g., fruit, veg, breeds of food animals) turn out to fail various quality tests, or just become uneconomic over time.
Food cultures in the EU have become much more alike each other than 40-50 years ago, mainly as a result of conglomerisation (if such a word exists) and convenience/processed/fast foods. This would have happened anyway, because there has been (shall we say) a rather more influential economic and cultural power than anything dreamt up in Brussels. One side-effect is that we are all a little bit more aware of 'foreign' foods than we used to be, even if the Dutch idea of an Indian restaurant, or a German pizza (which is where a lot of supermarket pizzas in Europe do come from), might raise an eyebrow in the country of (supposed) origin.
Well-organised commercial interests can and do influence the development in legislation in the EU even more than at member state level, mainly because it starts with governments agreeing some fairly windy generalisations late ar night, which over-stretched and under-specialised Eurocrats have to put into practice. So the 'experts' come up with all sorts of ideas that just happen to suit the large conglomerates.
So (especially where you have small numbers of large producers and large retail supermarkets) you might well find that all sorts of traditional varieties of raw materials (e.g., fruit, veg, breeds of food animals) turn out to fail various quality tests, or just become uneconomic over time.
Food cultures in the EU have become much more alike each other than 40-50 years ago, mainly as a result of conglomerisation (if such a word exists) and convenience/processed/fast foods. This would have happened anyway, because there has been (shall we say) a rather more influential economic and cultural power than anything dreamt up in Brussels. One side-effect is that we are all a little bit more aware of 'foreign' foods than we used to be, even if the Dutch idea of an Indian restaurant, or a German pizza (which is where a lot of supermarket pizzas in Europe do come from), might raise an eyebrow in the country of (supposed) origin.
Apr 17th, 2004, 05:21 PM
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Hmmmm - interesting replies to my rather innocent question 
!!
Just for clarification, the on-line article was a story about changes in menu items in restaurants, and specifically referred to some stew-type dishes in the Czech Republic and Poland where the method of preparation apparently contravenes some EU regulations.
Basically the preparation of these dishes calls for re-heating over several days (to improve the flavor), and that seems to be the problem.
Being familiar with these types of stews, I have to add that I have never encountered a restaurant (yet) that could even come close to matching the delicious taste of the home-made stew (and of course each cook has their own treasured family recipe and is not subject to EU food regulations).
!!Just for clarification, the on-line article was a story about changes in menu items in restaurants, and specifically referred to some stew-type dishes in the Czech Republic and Poland where the method of preparation apparently contravenes some EU regulations.
Basically the preparation of these dishes calls for re-heating over several days (to improve the flavor), and that seems to be the problem.
Being familiar with these types of stews, I have to add that I have never encountered a restaurant (yet) that could even come close to matching the delicious taste of the home-made stew (and of course each cook has their own treasured family recipe and is not subject to EU food regulations).
Apr 18th, 2004, 12:52 AM
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I imagine that it is not deemed hygenic to slow simmer soups or stews for days. I suspect they can keep them in fridges overnight....
There is a similar problem with cheese. It MUST be kept both in restaurants and retail premises below a certain temperature. I have to bribe my local cheese shop to take the stilton out of the chiller days before I want it (I don't bribe the, you understand; I just speak sternly).
I've not worked out how they get round that rule in France. Even in the markets most cheese is now sold from refrigerated vans, but the restuarnt cheese is always in perfect nick
There is a similar problem with cheese. It MUST be kept both in restaurants and retail premises below a certain temperature. I have to bribe my local cheese shop to take the stilton out of the chiller days before I want it (I don't bribe the, you understand; I just speak sternly).
I've not worked out how they get round that rule in France. Even in the markets most cheese is now sold from refrigerated vans, but the restuarnt cheese is always in perfect nick
Apr 18th, 2004, 03:27 AM
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Sadly, most of our popular press is foreign owned and Eurosceptic.
There is a whole website devoted to trying to scotch the "straight banana" stories.
It is at http://www.cec.org.uk/press/myths/index.htm
The trouble is, as Goebbels said, if you repeat a big lie enough, it becomes truth.
There is a whole website devoted to trying to scotch the "straight banana" stories.
It is at http://www.cec.org.uk/press/myths/index.htm
The trouble is, as Goebbels said, if you repeat a big lie enough, it becomes truth.
Apr 18th, 2004, 03:53 AM
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"To combat food globalization, you can learn about, try, appreciate, and buy these foods, so that their producers can stay in business. Slow Food (www.slowfood.com) is a good way to learn and to help."
Amazing how hypocritical people are about globalization. When Chinese, Indian, etc. food start showing up on supermarket shelves here, that's good. But when American products start "take shelf space" overseas, that's bad.
The bottom line is that no is going to be forced to buy Kraft cheese. Butthen, the anti-globbalization people really despise democracy and the notion that people should be allowed to make their own choices.
Amazing how hypocritical people are about globalization. When Chinese, Indian, etc. food start showing up on supermarket shelves here, that's good. But when American products start "take shelf space" overseas, that's bad.
The bottom line is that no is going to be forced to buy Kraft cheese. Butthen, the anti-globbalization people really despise democracy and the notion that people should be allowed to make their own choices.
Apr 18th, 2004, 03:53 AM
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and, of course, any half-baked suggestion right at the beginning of the long process of consensus-building that passes for legislation in theEU becomes 'crazed Euro-fanatic conspiracy to do us all down'..
And the way the system works, it suits national governments - they can get credit if they oppose unpopular ideas successfully, and avoid the blame if they go through..
And the way the system works, it suits national governments - they can get credit if they oppose unpopular ideas successfully, and avoid the blame if they go through..
Apr 18th, 2004, 04:37 AM
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This isn't just an EU thing. Where I live local food producers had for years been allowed to 'fly under the radar' of certain production requirements. But particularly since the advent of the Internet, small local producers have begun exporting out of the region, with the result that inspectors and the government have felt obliged to enforce the rules.
All it takes is for one bad experience and the region's name is mud internationally for eons. Quality control, whether in food processing or in the production of feed for beef cattle (and we know the result of bad control in the latter) is imperative to save the jobs (not to mention possibly the health) of thousands.
I tend to be very pragmatic about food - with 6 billion people needing it, and many people not getting it, it seems shallow in the extreme to insist that cuisine be the priority.
All it takes is for one bad experience and the region's name is mud internationally for eons. Quality control, whether in food processing or in the production of feed for beef cattle (and we know the result of bad control in the latter) is imperative to save the jobs (not to mention possibly the health) of thousands.
I tend to be very pragmatic about food - with 6 billion people needing it, and many people not getting it, it seems shallow in the extreme to insist that cuisine be the priority.
Apr 18th, 2004, 05:16 AM
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<<about food - with 6 billion people needing it, and many people not getting it>>
Solutions to this problem will derive from better education, access to information, good science and at least a modest supply of portable energy (an ox pulling a plow is portable energy; so is the fuel that goes into a tractor; agriculture cannot exist without one form or another).
In the United States, 3% of the population engaged directly in agriculture can feed the other 97% - - this ratio is dreadfully worse in too many parts of the world. Ironically, though, many Americans are likely to be very uncomfortable with global economic forces that lead to better feeding of populations in less affluent countries. Yes, we may not want to hear it, but outsourcing call centers to India can produce better economic conditions in Bangladesh. But shame on me for trying to trying to sell trickle-down Reagan-onomism here on such a beautiful April Sunday morning.
Regardless of your politics, there is no need for approaches to fedding the world to clash with regional cuisines, which have flourished and evolved since globalization began - - in Rome, in Venice, in Amsterdam, the "Spice Islands", the West Indies and the Portugal of Henry the Navigator.
I'm pretty sure that EU regulations will neither cause - - nor tolerate - - the appearance of "Casu Marzu" Kraft Singles on the shelves of the Migros nearest you.
Best wishes,
Rex
Solutions to this problem will derive from better education, access to information, good science and at least a modest supply of portable energy (an ox pulling a plow is portable energy; so is the fuel that goes into a tractor; agriculture cannot exist without one form or another).
In the United States, 3% of the population engaged directly in agriculture can feed the other 97% - - this ratio is dreadfully worse in too many parts of the world. Ironically, though, many Americans are likely to be very uncomfortable with global economic forces that lead to better feeding of populations in less affluent countries. Yes, we may not want to hear it, but outsourcing call centers to India can produce better economic conditions in Bangladesh. But shame on me for trying to trying to sell trickle-down Reagan-onomism here on such a beautiful April Sunday morning.
Regardless of your politics, there is no need for approaches to fedding the world to clash with regional cuisines, which have flourished and evolved since globalization began - - in Rome, in Venice, in Amsterdam, the "Spice Islands", the West Indies and the Portugal of Henry the Navigator.
I'm pretty sure that EU regulations will neither cause - - nor tolerate - - the appearance of "Casu Marzu" Kraft Singles on the shelves of the Migros nearest you.
Best wishes,
Rex
Apr 18th, 2004, 05:55 AM
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On our last visit to Italy, we stumbled upon a Slow Food Fair.
It was wonderful and we were able to taste local sausage, wine, cheese and bread.
They have a website http://www.slowfood.com/
It was wonderful and we were able to taste local sausage, wine, cheese and bread.
They have a website http://www.slowfood.com/
