What's interesting is that the standard cartoon American tourist has changed. In the 50s and 60s it was a man in a loud shirt with half a dozen cameras hanging round his neck. The woman was dressed up to the nines and wore specs with rhinestones. Now it's two ginormous people in shorts, but still with the half dozen cameras.

I observed just such a couple in line for the Louvre on my last visit. The Chewing Gum Police came by and wrote them a ticket. Usually they let you off with a warnig, but it was their second offense.

Hi

I agree.

Many Europeans view of USA was governed by tourists (seemingly lacking volume controls, who looked ridiculous, and tipped too high !), Elvis films, and latterly Dallas (still catch it dubbed into German if you missed an episode !)

No wonder they can't sell Cadillacs in Europe.

Peter

Gee, Europe is going to helll....imagine? Americans tipping too high. What an awful thing to do.

I traveled frequently to Europe and have observed these types of behaviors by reps from just about every nationality. Oh, well, I think Europe has worse problems than loud, money-spending Americans......

No it wouldn't be fair - I think it's a nostalgic, romantic perception and broad generalization on your behalf. The past always looks rosier than the present - mainly because so many people are so currently unhappy. Mind you, twenty years ago were the 80s - the ultimate hubris decade. As for the Jackie O persona mystic - during her time she was "fashionable" but now, her look was too pat - to put together. True style is the abilty to mix and match - not buy into a garanimal look, be it either head to toe Prada or Banana Republic.

Yes travel has become more affordable. But cultured doesn't have much to do with affluence - there are a lot of tacky rich people, American and European. I've seen some really loud outfits on over the hill Parisan women trying to be young - and it's worse when it's a middle aged man trying to be hip.

Your question reeks of the desire to look down on somebody - anybody. Why can't you just enjoy your trip and not be concerned about OTHER tourists?

When I recall my trips to Europe I remember the archhitecture, food and the locals - I able to filter out / forget the tourists. Or maybe the big bad tacky tourist really isn't as obnoxious as you're making them to be?

ttt

Even if travel costs remained high, relative to today's income levels, the casualization of clothing and the general decline in manners for American's would still make the change in behavior noticeable. Those trends, moreso than who is travelling, are a bigger impact on perceptions of behavior.

I think your point raises an interesting issue though. European's complain that Americans are myopic and sheltered in their world view. Yet, when we travel in greater numbers to other parts of the world, which presumably will help us with the myopia, they complain about the fact that we are "there." Those who dislike us will always find a reason.

BTW, is the reverse is also true? Are tourists to America now composed of "more lower class people" as you put it?

>BTW, is the reverse is also true? Are >tourists to America now composed of >"more lower class people" as you put >it?

Certainly in the past working class British tourists used to go to the Spanish Costas. Now many go to Florida. Going to Disney World in Florida is cheaper than going to Paris.

Mark-you are such a snob Are you embarrased that we have the largest middle and lower middle class in world history? We all want a chance to go look at the idle tower and leaning tower of pizza, so we can tell our friends and neighbors. What is wrong with that?

Look, if you are a tacky American, stay home. Go to Epcot and get one of those passports stamped. You can see 15 "countries" in an hour!!!!

Michele - Michele - so easy to be a critic......

The first time I went to Europe, it was for 3 1/2 months in 1963! It was sooo cheap. The joke was that what I saved on all my shopping paid for the trip. I think it cost $1600 for the whole time. I must confess I stayed in hostels and hotels with shared bathrooms. I ate OK meals in OK places. But shopping...the best Europe had to offer...names we don't hear of anymore.

Today...It's true I am older and I stay in better hotels...but I still cannot afford the fancier restaurants that I oogled when I was younger. And today, I could never afford the luxury brand goods that I bought in QUANTITIES in those days.

So everything is relative.

As for question...years before my trip, middle class college students didn't travel...only the very weathy did a GRAND tour, travelling by ship with trunks of clothing. These people can take the same attitude towards us that you seem to take towards those who have less than you. I personally think that it is wonderful that there are inexpensive ways to see the world. Who cares what they wear? Life is too short to worry about such things.

Zut alors! This is very bad. Chirac must speak sternly with Louvre authorities to ensue that in the future, only people dressed in silk, smoking Gitanes, and clutching flutes of champagne may stand in line for Louvre. (Although I suppose the EU will make him let the leather-wearing, garlic-chewing Irn Bru-drinkers in as well).

I say more power to us. I'm glad we lower class types are now able to see a little more of the world. Anyway, sometimes very tastefully dressed people are ugly inside, you know.

Strangely, the most obnoxious tourists I saw in London last month were Europeans.
While attempting to hear an Evensong service at St. Paul's Cathedral, folks speaking French, Danish, Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese wandered around, talked — even took pictures — DURING THE SERVICE. They had all been informed at the entrance that the church was open at this time only for the service, not for tourism, and they were invited to take a seat — which they did not.

I was mortified that some of these people were American. But most were not. I don't buy most of this Ugly American stuff. I've seen too many Ugly Tourists of all nationalities.

Lisa

I've lived in Denmark, London, Berlin, Athens and Paris. Europeans cannot tell the difference between nationalities. If you are tourists with money, and are not wearing black attire, then you will automatically be called Americans! It is a fact.

Air fares may be a lot less, but Europe is MUCH more expensive than 20 years ago. You could travel for US $5.00/ day then.

One BIG difference is all the kids. I am amazed and appalled at all the people who are dragging their infants and toddlers all over the world. Why do they do it? Do they really believe that a two year old is getting something out of a trip to Paris? How about that 9 month old baby? Why do the rest of us have to listen to them scream all the way across the Atlantic, or, as in the last trip I was on, run up and down the aisles all night playing hide and seek? It is so unfair.

The reason people take their kids more today is because the mothers usually work and want to spend their leisure time with them. In my day, we used baby sitters much more. Today, even in "fancy" restaurants, you find little kids. Times have changed a lot.

As for the person who said that airfares were higher 20 years ago...I beg to differ. I paid 1/3 or even 1/4 the price back then.

I was fortunate to serve (US Army) in Europe in the 60's and traveled around using "Europe of 5.00 per day". We dug up my wifes travel ticket dated Feb. 1968 and the cost of a one-way was 289.00 from Chicago to Frankfurt. A Paris weekend was 24.50 per person for two nights at the Friedland which now goes for about 179.00 per night. What was my pay? About $300.00 per month. What kind of tourist did we meet. Not many. Mostly GI's on leave. I remember Holland, Rome, and Venice for cheap but the amount of tourist's encountered was nowhere as frequent as today. I also remember half of Europe we know today wasn't open to tourists. Berlin was an all night trip from Frankfurt and very dull and scary. Checkpoint Charley was a test of ones patiences and nerves. Has a diferent type of tourist emerged? Certainly and so has a different type of Europe.
A new free Europe with many countries regaining their boundries and governments. The tourists who are independent travelers that I come in contact with are fine representatives of the U.S., who have disposal incomes that afford them the opportunity to travel this world.

FYI, one of the popular cost-of-living comparison calculators says that $5 in 1960 is equal to $29.98 in 2002.

Those books explaining how to do Europe on $5 a day are now up to $85 a day (Frommer's Paris & London guidebooks) --- I don't see that travel is more affordable than 20 yrs ago, rather that folks are more willing to allocate funds to do so.

I figured this would be jumped on as a troll right away! I always figured Fodors for being a bit elitist, whether fiscally or intelectually, but this is ridiculous! Imagine all the classless people out there who want to see the world, what are they thinking! They should stay in the slums and trailer parks where you put them!

Martine, Europeans can very well make distinctions between nationalities. Huh, otherwise we would think that we live in a country called Europe. There is a difference between a Greek and a Portuguese, even between a Swede and a Norwegian. And we are used to seeing those differencies.

My first trip to Europe was in 1961, as a college student, and there were plenty of people yelping about no ice in their drinks (and back then, believe me, Europe was really not into ice!!), kicking pigeons in St. Marks, demanding beer instead of wine in fine restaurants (and this was before beer was "in"), etc. There were probably just fewer travelers and perhaps dressed better--wealthier, in general, but not necessarily better mannered--accustomed to getting things the way they wanted them back here in the States.

40 years ago Noel Coward wrote a song called "Why Do the Worst People Travel?"
So there were complaints on that score, and some snobbery, even in 1961.
I think it is fair to say that there are snobs, and slobs, and rude tourists in every country, and from every country. The only thing I feel sure about is that bad behavior (that is, rude, inconsiderate behavior) seems to be on the increase everywhere, including among travelers. Even among people who post on travel message boards. That's an observation of a trend, not a decription of every individual because I've met some pretty great people here, and while traveling.

I don't think that a different "type" has emerged -- I think that there are simply more (and more and ...) of EVERY type of tourist. We're (as a species) beginning to realize what a small world it really is and to understand how little it takes to experience and enjoy other cultures and countries.

Ok. What if we only notice the tourists who are misbehaving? The loud, obnoxious, aggressive ones... I wouldn't be surprised to find out that for every hideous tourist of ANY nationality, you observed with horror, there were 150 other tourists standing around aghast but not noticed. Also, having just returned from a visit to Kenya, I must confess, we saw many large bodied, loud, aggressive "tourists" though only one other party of Americans. Obnoxious is universal, believe me.

Mark,
Ok, normally I ignore idiots like you but this is too much. I could really get in to this with you but I will say this...I am probably one of the people you describe...I never went to Europe before it became more affordable. My first trip was in 1997 at age 23. My parents could never afford it because they were working their asses off to put me through college where I learned all about Eurpean history, art, culture, etc. Don't assume middle class people have no culture or education...they probably have more work ethic and insight than you will ever have. People like us appreciate travel a lot more than people like you because we have to work for it. I have been to Europe 7 times and never spend more than $1000 on each trip. I love Europe on a budget and never where spandex or snap gum outside the Louvre. I had a very wealthy boyfriend once and he and his familu members, with all their millions, were the ones who acted like that and they knew jack about loving travel the way I do now. Shame on you...you give Americans a bad name.