Great "hiddn" restaurants

There is a tunnel that goes through the hillside between Amalfi and Atrani, and hanging on the cliff *outside* that tunnel is a tiny unpretentious restaurant called Da Zaccaria and it has very good food. I also had a very good meal right in Atrani, whose name I don't remember (it seems to me it had the word "dreams" in it.) Sorry!

I don't think this is "hidden," but if you are in the neighborhood of Santa Maria Novello in Firenze, I ate more than once at Uva Fragola, a very unpretentious pizzeria that had good pastas as well. I suppose what makes it unusual is that the owners are Chinese-Italiians.

Hi B,

You might wish to look up <Restaurants and "city name"> in the "search this forum" box.

Venice is not exactly the place for "hidden" restaurants, as the general kitchen level is comparatively poor (i.e., compared to the mainland, just across the bridge from Venice - even in grim Mestre, you can eat by far better than in the historic city), and almost everything has already been discovered at least by SOME American, German or Japanese guidebook - that's true even for the few really good restaurants of Venice.
Maybe the only really unspoiled and still "hidden" place (and certainly REALLY hidden in the sense of its location far, far away from everywhere you will be going to visit in Venice) is Osteria al Bacco. Hearty, excellent food, comparatively low prices (remember, it's still Venice), and atmospherically a place of gorgeous simplicity and, yes I dare saying, authenticity. Believe it or not, they have NO website. The address is Cannaregio 3054 (Fondamenta delle Capucine).

There is a great pizza place in Florence (if it's still there!) called I Tarrochi at Via de' Renai 12/14. That's a quick walk from Santa Croce on the other side of the river.

Also, maybe not so hidden anymore is Santo Spirito - Oltrarno (other side of the river) as well and less touristy, or used to be. Any restaurant in that piazza was good.

Hope this isn't TOO hopelessly outdated. I lived there ten years ago and can't believe it's been that long.

You can find good food in Venice. They are there.

If you want a hidden gem, try Antica Besseta in Santa Croce district.

Salizada de Ca Zusto


Another hidden gem is Sempione, somewhere behind St. Mark's Square on the way towards the Rialto Bridge. We happened in there and found where all the gondeliers go to eat as 8 of them were in there. So good, we went back the next day for lunch.

Venice- La Corte Sconta.

Just get the set dinner and go to town! The food is amazing, but it is almost all fish (except for some gnocchi that tastes like sauteed clouds!)

I guess we lucked out in Venice...we just wandered around and ate at a pastry shop, a pizza stand and a gelato stand, and had GREAT food. (and not overpriced) The sandwich shop was just average...but way better than the pizza and pasta near the Vatican!

Franco,

Do you know Do Farai in the Dorsoduro?

I thought the food in Venice was great, although very pricey. One place I would have mentioned a few years ago is Anzolo Raffaele but I read on this boaard that even that fairly out-of-the-way place is packed with tourists. But taking a page from Franco, I think the short trip to Mestre might yield some good spots for you. I will certainly check it out next trip. In Florence I liked Il Guscio. I am not sure if you would call the place unusual, though. Just very good food in a pretty place where I did not see any other tourists in January. You can read the detailed, perhaps far too detailed, report on what I ate in Florence if you click on my name and find my report from January.

In Rome

Il Ciak
Vicolo del Cinque 21
Trastevere
00153 Rome
06.589.4774

Opens at 8:30 pm for dinner only. You must have a reservation. No one speaks English. Best veal chops in the world. Lots of game, open fire grill right in the dining room. The real deal.

We had very good meals in Venice by just walking away from the most tourist intense parts of the city. We did the same in Rome.

Quality improved and prices dropped. Get away from the Grand Canal, P. San Marco, the Rialto area and there are nice places to dine.

That's not to say that there aren't some good restaurants in the tourist areas, but they are unfortunately outnumbered by the mediocre and worse.

The last time we were there we walked way out along the Canale di Cannereggio around 8 p.m. Once we got away from the Lista di Spagna a bit, there were very few people around. We just kept walking along, and just as we about decided to turn back, we saw a pool of light ahead.

When we got there we found a small restaurant with outdoor seating as well as indoor. To make a long story short, other than the Flys, the rest of the customers were Venetians or Italian tourists--unless there were a lot of visitors from other countries who had taken a lot of Italian lessons.

The menu was Venetian--no spaghetti and meatballs at all. And it was excellent.

We've had similar expriences over the years in Dorsoduro and Castello. And as I mentioned above, in Rome.

No, we didn't write down names--I apologize. But we'll make a point of it on our next visit.

One of the difficulties I have in recommending Venetian restaurants is that I don't always care for the food of the Veneto -- and, no, I'm not addicted to "spaghetti and meatballs" (which, by the way, I have never seen on an Italian menu anywhere in italy; meatballs are usually served without pasta).

I often enjoy risotto in Milan and the hearty stews of Piemonte. But the Veneto -- which is heavy on polenta, eels, liver, cuttlefish (and its ink) --is just not my favorite cuisine.

And to make matters worse, I actually do like liver, and have never been served a preparation of it in the Veneto that I liked.

My favorite dish of the Veneto is a whole wheat pasta with an anchovy sauce, and in Verona and elsewhere in the Veneto, duck is often prepared well.

In Venice, try to the Ostaria Ale do Marie on Calle de L'Ogia. We loved the food and service and the only other tourists there were from Rome.

With all these hidden gems coming up, we will be obliged to conclude that Venice is a worldclass place to eat...

To add a little more praise to the Corte Sconta: My boss recommended it to me. According to her, it was the only restaurant that has ever really stuck out to her in Venice. So, we went.

Along with La Giostra in Florence (high end and a lot of pomp) and Bella Napoli in Verona (a local pizza place where you eat with your hands), it was my best Italy dining experience. I cannot recommend it enough. To the point where, if I knew you, I would take you by the hand, walk you to the door, and get you a table.

baldrick--better to say, it CAN be a world class place to eat. One of the curses of Venice is the way the city is laid out and how the best known sights are situated in that layout.

As a result, the bulk of the daytripping hordes are funnelled along a relatively narrow strip of the city along the Grand Canal. Most of these folks don't have time to be picky about food, souvenir shops, etc.--so there's an inordinate number/ratio of less than stellar restaurants along this "Daytrippers' Alley" and nearby areas.

So finding the good places takes a bit of effort, but Venice does have them.

In addition, as nessundorma points out, many people don't care for the native dishes of this part of Italy, which are very different from the rest of the country's various cuisines.

We do like the cuisine of Venice--but both Mrs. Fly and I have been fortunate enough to be exposed to a wide variety of cuisines almost since birth, so we're pretty open to new flavors and ingredients. (Not to say there aren't limits and there aren't dishes one or the other of us doesn't like--I still can't hack the "aged" skate and "rotten" kimchi dish from southeastern Korea. No one is going to like every world cuisine.)

I do use spaghetti and meatballs as an example because that's what many non-Italians think of as the quintessential Italian dish--even though it isn't.

I also sometimes use the Chef Boyardee analogy--and then for some reason some people think that I seriously believe that Chef Boyardee canned spaghetti and meatballs are real Italian food. Let's think tongue-in-cheek, irony, exaggeration, metaphors satire, absurdism, etc. All acceptable forms of humor and making a point.

Rufus,

My father worked as a publicist for 14 different restaurants when I was a kid, and I grew up eating Chinese food, several different kinds of Italian food, Kosher food, Turkish food, Indonesian food, French food, etc. etc.

It's not that you've got superior tastebuds or are more cultured than other people. It's that Venice doesn't have, per square foot, as many good restaurants as the average no-name Italian town.

PS: People have experienced just as many bad meals in Canareggio, Castello and Burano, etc. as they have in San Marco. As Franco said before, you're luck will probably better heading off to Mestre if you want "great food at reasonable prices" -- although I would argue that high prices are no guarantee of a great meal in Venezia either.

About all you can do is gather up the restaurant reviews and hope whoever wrote them isn't jazzed on Venice they'll defend anything about it.

ness-I didn't say I have superior tastebuds, and I wasn't referring to you personally, but there are people who have not been exposed to a variety of foods in their lifetimes, and it is often difficult for them to adjust to something different. Just because some people like a wider variety of foods than others doesn't mean their tastes are superior, only that they are broader.

And the cuisine of Venice is different for most people. So there will be a higher percent of folks who won't take to it as compared to the food in other regions of Italy.

I guess you missed the part where I said that not everyone is going to like every style of food in the world. And that includes both people who have had very limited food experiences and people who have had broader food experiences.

And the part where I said that the parts of Venice where most people end up do have a high proportion of not so great restaurants.

And the part where I agreed with you that many people won't put the particular cuisine of Venice at the top of their favorites list.

And the part where I said it takes more effort to find good restaurants in Venice than in other parts of Italy.

Also hope that whoever writes about a place isn't so against it that they'll attack anything postive about it.

But that should be fairly easy, as I haven't seen anyone here who has either defended or attacked ANYTHING about it.

There are two restaurants south of florence and just south of Greve that are out of the way with fantastic food and exceptional scenery.

Restaurant di Lamole in a teeny town with unbelievable views of the countryside.

On the same road, and before you get to Lamole, there is Aia dei Canti inside the Castle di lamole. Its a teeny hamlet of a few buildings. Two of our best meals were at these restaurants.


http://www.ristorodilamole.it/

Thank you all for so many wonderful suggestions!

Barb

Rufus,

I spend more time talking about the treasures of Venice than a lot of people, who seem to think it's a place to go eat gelato.

ttt

nessundorma, no, I don't know Do Farai, but if it is the trattoria that you were referring to recently in another thread, where the owner would sit down and chat with the guests, I'm curious to try it next time when being in Venice.
If anybody got me wrong, I didn't want to say that there is no good food in Venice - I'm the first to preach that yes there is if you are doing sufficient research. But it is certainly true that it is difficult to discover any "hidden" places; furthermore that the average quality is much, much lower than in most other Italian cities/regions. (And for that, tourism is to blame - the cuisine of Venice is better than one might think, but there are no restaurants serving most of the interesting dishes! We might better talk about hidden dishes, thus, than about hidden restaurants To get an impression of what the cuisine of Venice boasts, just chat a little with the vendors on the fish market!)
As far as Mestre, I wouldn't exactly recommend it for reasonable prices (that would mean going a little - but really just a little! - farther from Venice: e.g. to Dolo on the Brenta canal, or to Villa Condulmer in Mogliano Veneto: http://www.hotelvillacondulmer.com/ - yes, incredible but true, a luxury hotel in a baroque villa, and the restaurant is excellent and has REALLY reasonable prices, given the more than elegant setting and service). But as for Mestre, the point in going there is that on the outskirts of Mestre, you'll find the best fish restaurant where I've ever been: Il Cason, http://www.alcason.it The reason why I'm recommending it, however, is nothing about the prices... but the food is IN-CRE-DI-BLY good.
nessundorma, if you like bigoli in salsa (that's what you were talking about, whole weat pasta with anchovy sauce), you MUST go to La Botte next time when coming to Venice. They're serving the best bigoli in salsa on this planet: http://www.osteriaallabotte.it Hard to find, but absolutely worth searching (and the best food in Venice, anyhow, not only the best bigoli in salsa). However, no hidden place (though hidden, yes, as a location... just a few metres from Ponte di Rialto, but you'll take five wrong lanes before catching the proper one), rather, already on several guidebooks from all over the world.

Thank you franco, I'm bookmarking both those restaurants for my return to Venice. Hope you enjoy the atmosphere at Do Farai in the Dorsoduro, and that the food is good that night. Say hi to Stefano.

I feel badly that I got into a tiff with Rufus, but he might understand my tiff-i-ness better if he imagined what his own reaction might be if, after describing his reactions to Korean food, the response was to talk about people who apparently expect anything eaten with chopsticks to be drowned in soy sauce and come with a fortune cookie at the end.

I don't disbelieve people who tell me they had a highly enjoyable meal in Venice. They ate it. I didn't. But they shouldn't assume others who encountered surprisingly mediocre and even bad food in Venice were being careless or are unschooled eaters. One gets so used to eating well in Italy without a lot of planning or money, Venezia is a bit of an anomaly.

Hey -- Osteria alla Botte is in San Marco!

Yes, the S. Marco district goes as far as Rialto bridge, and in fact, the bridge, too, belongs to S. Marco. La Botte is just a few steps off Campo S. Bartolomeo (Bortolomio, as the locals would say), that's the one with the Goldoni monument from where to ascend ponte di Rialto.

Franco: It is truly wonderful to read these tips from you since you know the city so well. If I may ask, where do you live now? I will surely put your recommendations at the top of my list for the next time I am fortunate enough to visit Venice and the surrounding area. I am also glad to hear you recommend Osteria alla Botte; I visited there several times during my last trip and thought the place was very friendly with excellent food. For this reason, I was surprised to read some negative comments about it a while ago on this board. I am sure I speak for many when I say we are very glad that you have decided to spend some time with us here at Fodor's.

ekscrunchy,

You certainly speak for me....

ek and Traviata, thank you so much for your overwhelming kindness - which makes it very difficult for me not to answer your question, ek. I beg you to understand, however, that I absolutely want to be anonymous, including the place where I live now; it has to do with a certain prominence in a certain country, with having deliberately disappeared from public life there, and with a (quite probably paranoid) fear of the yellow press. Honestly, I don't suppose they're reading any threads at Fodor's, but hell if they ever did, and if they'd recognize me, it would be too high a price for my presence here, as much as I enjoy it. I'm sorry...
But let's return to this thread's topic - hidden restaurants! Rome, this time. Osteria dell'Angelo might well be considered a "hidden" place; you might check this thread: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34757496; in my first entry there, I've written more about it. Another hidden place near Rome is Osteria al Monumento in Ostia Antica, an excellent, simple trattoria specializing in fish dishes (which is rare in Rome itself - Rome is 30 kilometres or so away from the sea, and that's already "inland" for an Italian; the Roman cuisine has hardly any fish dishes! Ostia Antica, however, is about 20 kilometres nearer to the coast, and there you find them... just to give a little lecture about necessary freshness of fish, as opposed to all those scallop-lobster-turbot dishes 1500 kilometres above sea level, or several hundred miles inland).
Btw, if anyone is interested in cooking him/herself while on a holiday (fun for many who are renting apartments), we could well make a follow-up on "hidden" dishes of the cuisine of Venice; maybe not exactly here, in order not to disturb Barbbroom's thread further and further...

franco,

Whatever it takes is whatever it takes...just don't stop posting on Fodor's!! I left you a note on "solo Venice" that says it for me...

Greatest little restaurant recommended by the staff at the Rome Gea di Vulcana hotel, is called Trattoria Abruzzese at via Napoli 4 (not far from the Termini station). What a great little downstairs place - I couldn't understand how they made those wonderful raviolis - but I recommend it to anyone looking for something local, and absolutely delicious. Bon Appetit.

Thank you, Traviata. Don't worry, though I can't make promises for the entire rest of my life, I have absolutely no intentions so far to stop posting here...

Gatto Nero on the island of Burano in Venice. The freshest seafood around. You can usually spot the Missonis dining here if they are in town.

Yes, surprising as it is (on an island as heavily touristed as Burano), this seems to be a really good restaurant. It's definitely on my check list for one of the next visits to Venice: I know a man who is living on a very small island in the northern laguna (no tourists there) and who used to work as a fisherman in his youth - so he should know about fish! (Until today, he wouldn't eat a clam that he didn't bring up from the muddy ground of the laguna with his own hand.) And he, too, swears that Gatto nero is the best fish restaurant around. Though, he adds, it's very expensive... well, Burano tourism can't be without ANY effect, I guess.

I'm no help but wanted to say hello to Polly Magoo.

Hi, Mimi. I am like a cat: I have nine lives!!!!! It is not that easy to get rid of me.

Your friend,
Daughter of Dior

I know everyone is off this thread by now.Thank you for the restaurants.We will be in Venice for three nights and 4 days in August.We arrive in the evening around 9 and I know that is late.The hotel suggested that we go to Do Farai or Aqua Pazza for the first night.After Venice we will be in Milan..Any Great restaurants there? I'll have to do a search .........

ttt

A most excellent hole-in-the-wall pizza place in the piazza in San Polo in Venice. It's hard to miss because there is always a line-up, or an assembled group, of locals waiting for their slices to come out of the oven and be served. No chairs/tables, but you eat just like the other locasl, while standing in the beautiful piazza.

Al Pompiere in the Jewish quarter in Rome serves very good traditional Roman dishes. Reservation is recommended.

We had a lovely, casual, rather inexpensive meal at Ristorante or Trattoria Coppelle in Rome. It's a few blocks from the Pantheon on the street of the same name. Don't know the address. It's right on the street and has red and white checkered table cloths. Good basic stuff like pasta and pizza. Great baccala and fried olives!

We just got back from Italy - one of the best meals we had was in a little mountain village in the hills of Chianti. Its' called Osteria Passignano in Badia di Passignano. It's Tuscan with a lighter really creative touch - great setting, lovley little town but you'll need a car. One of the best meals we had.

anamaria--we enjoyed Ristorante Bruno in Milan--just a few blocks from the Duomo. The antipasti bar is excellent.

Thank you Nini, we will try Bruno.

I beg you to understand, however, that "I absolutely want to be anonymous, including the place where I live now; it has to do with a certain prominence in a certain country,....

Um, I don't think I even WANT to go here! People DO have euphemistic ways of explaining their "predicaments" to others, if you know what I mean??

And I wonder at all this deference being given here to this dude. Do you think it would be the same if Franco were Franca? Something tells me not!

At any rate, I'm afraid I can't jump on this Franco bandwagon AT ALL, and I'm surprised at how many people who know Venice and its food scene don't see through this. Franco's alleged "expertise"- uh, what is it here? A seafood restaurant in MESTRE, and a couple of other small osterie in Venice? (maybe Franco is an expert on Mestre, because he stayed there instead of Venice?)

I don't know about you, but that sure don't impress-a ME much. I can name 5 osterie in Cannaregio alone that are terrific-and at least that many in San Polo/Santa Croce.

Venice has some of the best food anywhere- if it didn't it wouldn't keep getting written up in food reviews-I think there have been at least 4 major articles on the food scene in Venice within the last 6 months-all naming different places. And those are just some of the new slick restaurants-they don't hit all the old favorites of the Venetians in the two sestiere I mentioned above.

Okay, let's name 5 great osterie in San Polo (this is easy)

1. Cantina do Mori
2. Cantina do Spade
3. al Posta Vecie (more expensive-ancient bldg. right along side the Pescaria)
4. Bancogiro
5.

Now let's take the traghetto over from San Polo to Ca d'Oro and start right across the Strada Nuova on the other side of the vaporetto stop:

1. Osteria Ca d'Oro (alla Vedova)walking down the Strada Nuova, we stop off at

2. Bentigode alla Andrea-Calle delle Fornase, just past the Ponte de Guglie or just off the San Marcuola church-everyone knows this place-just ask

3. Continuing to walk down the Strada Nuova towards Gelateria Ca d'Oro and Rialto, and Campo Santi Apostali, we turn left onto tiny Calle d'Oche, and we find not ONE, but TWO osterie:

3. Osteria da Bomba (my special favorite-go to the communal tables, like alla Vedova, this is just fun-lit with candles, you're taking part in Venetian tradition)

4. Osteria Aziende Agricole-Rio Tera Farsetti(equi distant from the Ponte dei Guglie and San Marcuola, off the Strada Nuova

5. Continuing to walk down to Campo Santi Apostoli, turn left to Campiello (little Campo) Flaminio to OSTERIA OMBRA

Now, 5 TRATTORIE in Cannaregio that are excellent:

1. VINI DA GIGIO-Fondamenta San Felice

2. AI PROMESI SPOSI (the promised spouse)-on the same calle as my favorite Da Bomba-right off the Strada Nuova towards Campo Santi Apostali-vaporetto: Ca d'Oro

3. L'ANGOLO DI TANIT-Sicilian food, one of the best restaurants in the city-featured in T & L recently -vaporetto: San Marcuola/Ponte dei Guglie-Calle d'Aseo

3.

posted too soon...,

Venice-Cannaregio/San Polo Osteria, con'td:

4. OSTERIA AL VAGON-off the Campo Santi Apostali, on sotoportego del Magazen

5. DA ALBERTO-right by the Chiesa dei Miracoli, calle larga Giacinto Gallina

and to finish the osteria/trattorie list in San Polo:

1. Cantina do Mori
2. Cantina do Spade
3. Da Pinto
4. Poste Vecie
5. Antiche Carampane
6. Antiche Osteria Ruga Rialto

I could name quite a few more, but there's a good start.

GirlTravel,

Perhaps you missed the title of the thread: "Great "hidden" restaurants.

Of the 16 trattorie/osterie/cantine named, 12 have been in the guidebooks for years.

As a matter of fact, no fewer than 10 are currently listed in Fodor's.

Hardly "hidden"...

And I've seen absolutely lousy reviews of at least six of them, not only here, but on Web sites that cater to people who understand and enjoy good food rather than to passing tourists (although the two categories do sometimes overlap).

Thank you Eloise. That seems to put an end to her venoumous, unprovoked, out of context attack on another poster.

Must be jealous...

Wow. I was thinking the very same thing, Lenox.

I AM curious, I must admit, about the identity of this Franco person. Could he be Jim Morrison, perhaps???

Or Jimmy Hoffa, Guy 18, lol???

Ok on with the OP's question...

In Florence Leo’s was our favorite:
Leo’s (Via Torta 7R – www.florencerestaurant.com open for lunch and dinner – closed Mondays – phone 055 210829).

In Venice:
Tavernetta San Maurizio (San Marco 2619 – phone 041 5285240)

Delish!
Enjoy, Tiff

There is a whole post on who is Franco and its pretty funny.

Read the other posts by GirlTravel. She must get a kick out of aggravating people or she has a permanent thorn in her side. How pleasant she must be in person.