Global Travel Warning...

Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:24 AM
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Global Travel Warning...

The US issued a global travel warning a day or two ago. I am searching my favorite travel forum and surprised to see that there is no thread on this. Maybe it is the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. I am sorry to be the one to bring it up if it is an off-limits topic, but as a new world traveler with my first international trip on the horizon I am not sure how I am supposed to feel. I don't even know what I am asking for by posting this. I know that I am not the only inexperienced traveler here so I thought I might not be the only one looking to have a conversation about this.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:32 AM
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What are we supposed to say - we are sacared to travel - well then if we don't the terrorists win - I have more a desire to travel abroad, especially to Paris not less from fear.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:36 AM
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Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about the danger of terrorism for US visitors to Europe. The amount of Americans killed by terrorists while visiting Europe is historically really really low. Automobile related accidents are far more likely to be a danger for tourists than terrorists.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:40 AM
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People that adjust or cancel their travel plans due to warnings may be less likely to post. They will hear about not letting the terrorists win.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:41 AM
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Correction, if you include the Pan Am plane brought down by terrorists over Lockerbie that would be one horrible case of terrorists killing people leaving Europe, but again the overall picture isn't changed. Look at the state department list of Americans dying overseas. Its almost always typical things that kill people, illness and accident etc.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:42 AM
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Crossing the street as a pedestrian in say London when you may not look both ways kills and injures more Americans than any terrorist action - in fact I can think only of the Bologne Centrale train station bombing decades ago where some Americans were killed - average tourists that is not military personnel.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:49 AM
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I have no plans to cancel my trip or stop planning future ones. I agree...that is letting the terrorists win.
I just wondered about your opinions about this warning and warnings of the past. It is very reassuring to know that this community of travelers is functioning as usual and not letting fear get the best of them.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:50 AM
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Ideologically -- or maybe the more accurate way to put it is "verbally" -- the majority of frequent posters on this board have a rigid position that they would never change their travel plans out of fear of anything. I don't believe they actually behave that way in real life, but right at the moment, the situation in Paris does not frighten them like the situation in Syria or Gaza or Iraq. If it did, and if they are the types of people more likely to be at risk (i.e., people with Jewish sounding names, holders of American or British or French passports), they would reassess.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:54 AM
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Some or any terrorist attack pinpointing Americans would change the game suddenly I think at least in certain places and more than one would send all the tour group type folk packing and unpacking and cancelling their trips as did happen after the bombing of that jet plane with so many Yanks on board in Scotland a whiles back - I was in a tour business and folks cancelled in droves for a while but after a few months it were all back to normal.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:55 AM
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i think "letting the terrorists win" is vacuous and misunderstands the situation. We've been told "the terrorists win" if we don't shop, if we don't go to the movies, if we don't travel, if we don't tweet "je suis Charlie". The terrorists win every time we give them, through our tax dollars, more recruitment tools and more weapons to re-purpose for terrorist activity. The terrorists are still around because so many people -- much more than died this week in Paris -- are slaughtered by high-tech weaponry made in the West and deployed by the West in pursuit of policy goals that most Americans and citizens of Europe do not agree with but who will not use the power of their vote to get rid of.

If people would use more of their energy trying to understand why the policies of the West foster "blowback" terrorist activities in their own cities, they could defeat the terrorists and save innocent lives everywhere.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:56 AM
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I receive those travel warnings regularly and have not yet found any reason to take one of them seriously.

They advise only what "street smarts" have taught all of us over the years. The only thing they never mention is that in case of a terrorist event, you should not whip out your American passport and say "You can't touch me because I am an American!"
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 08:59 AM
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Where are you travelling to? And what is the warning about? Don't travel anywhere anytime? Or is it for specific countries.

An American is much more likely to be killed in the US than in Europe, according to this (humanosphere.org);
http://tinyurl.com/prbu8rz
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:09 AM
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There are reasons why you might take such issues seriously. So I went to look

http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...swarnings.html

Interestingly it does not specifically mention France, Germany, Italy or Greece. Since it is about World Wide travel I assume it includes the USA.

Given that it covers the whole Globe and since very few of us have access to other planets. I assume you should follow the instructions listed on the document which seems to suggest "Vigilance".

Now as a Brit, I might find it funny that the best the US government can offer is "look out" , I suggest you also enrol in STEP and follow the advice there.

Have fun.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:09 AM
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One more comment:

I suppose there are some people who think it is wrong to listen to terrorists, but if you are being targeted by people who want to kill as many of you as they can, I think it is important to try to understand their thinking.

In this case, the terrorists actually gave interviews to journalists in the middle of their hostage standoffs. They said very plainly that they were doing what they were doing because they wanted to inflict pain on countries that invaded Muslim countries and killed the people and tried to take the veils off their women. They also said they wanted to avenge their "prophet" for the disrespect shown in obscene cartoons about him.

At no time time did the terrorists say their goal was to stop tourist travel to Paris.

The terrorists win if (1) we stop invading Muslim countries to control their oil and killing innocent civilians there, if (2) we stop trying to make their women dress like Italians or Americans, and if (3) we stop publishing satirical cartoons about Islam. I am willing to fight and die for #3 only. Otherwise, I actually see a win-win on #1 and #2 if we end those destructive and even idiotic policies.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:19 AM
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The advice from the foreign office here in Belgium for travel to the USA warns that level of crime in the USA is higher than in Europe, and more violent. Some parts of cities are unsafe; enquire at the hotel about these. And most credit card fraud takes place in the US.

Europeans still visit the USA though.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:24 AM
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Sandralist,

Interesting points. There are so many ironies about all this. One is that through the US invasion of Iraq, a fairly secular, not strongly Islamic regime, that of Saddam Hussein, was overthrown, and has been replaced by ones that are less secular. Another irony is that the West has to one extent or another been against the Assad regime in Syria, and I would think that many in the middle east are angry at what they perceive as western meddling in internal Syrian affairs. And yet the Assad regime is also the enemy of many extremist moslems. So, in terms of the islam or not islam equation, it seems that enemies of the west are not always the most pro-islamic.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:24 AM
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Tulips...I personally am traveling to Italy, which as not been mentioned specifically at all.
Bilbo... I tagged the other countries with the exception on France randomly. This warning is global, but I could only tag 5 countries.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:30 AM
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Yes, only many things they want most people in western nations are not willing to do. They are entitled to their opinions but they are not entitled to try to enforce them through violence. Once they do that - IMHO - they lose their voice.

I am perfectly wiling to listen to Muslims - but am not willing to agree to some things many ask for. We live in a diverse society - that is the essence of who we are - and anyone that tries to eliminate that diversity is not going to succeed. The US particularly was founded based on freedom of religion - that is, no one can force their religious beleies on others (if that is prayer in public schools, the catholic church trying to end abortion rights, or muslims demanding that freedom of speech be abridged).

So either the terrorists will continue to try to force their ides on us - or we will eliminate them.

I am all for negotiation - as long as it does not require the majority to give up basic rights. But the terrorists have to be willing to give as well - and I don;t believe they will even consider this, As stated above - what THESE specific muslims want is NOT going to happen. And they will just have to get over it. Or continue to live in their own society, which can follow those rules if it chooses. To emigrate to a diverse society and then demand that it stop being diverse is simply ridiculous. As waves of immigrants from various countries entered the US they all brought their own beliefs, culture and habits with them. Some they retained and some had to be modified to fit the local culture. Sorry - that's the way it works.

And I have traveled through europe when there were clear risks (fringe IRA bombings in London, specific threats from middle eastern groups) and no - that will not stop me. I'm not heading into a war zone - but terrorists can strike anywhere. We know, NYC is a favorite target - and I refuse to be intimidated.
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 09:52 AM
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The risk of travel needs to be balanced with the risk of staying at home.

I was working from home on the day when the 7/7 London Tube and bus bombings happened, otherwise I'd have been on a tube train at that exact time, being a London commuter

I'd have been safer on a beach in Barbados...
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Old Jan 11th, 2015, 10:30 AM
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The Worldwide Caution of January 9, 2015 replaces the Worldwide Caution of October 10, 2014, and for all I know that probably replaced an earlier Worldwide Caution. The United States is the number one terrorism target, so I can't see how travel in Europe would be any riskier than travel to major cities in the US.

This is an ongoing situation, not likely to end any time soon. If you are waiting for things to improve you may never in your lifetime be able to travel, even to places like New York.

http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...e-caution.html
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