shabby

Need help with Itinerary
8 days Germany tours
Car or rail or plane

Interests include
Bavarian Alps
Concentration camps
Berlin wall
Castles
Black forest
Autobahn

we are open to new suggestions

nytraveler

Exactly how many nights do you have on the ground? Or if days, do not include the day you land and the day you depart.

It looks like you need 3 bases: Berlin (wall and about a dozen great museums), Munich or somewhere in southern Bavaria (castles and alps) and some place in the Black Forest. And if you really only have 7 full days you will have trouble seeing all of this except in a VERY cursory way.

You can see the Autobahn only by driving - but what do you expect to see? It's just a highway. Or do you mean you want to drive on it - especially the part with no speed limit (not much of this is left and it's typically not near large cities). You would need to research that in advance, I don;t know where it's still true.

And if that is your goal you will have to rent a more upscale car - the smallest ones won't give you enough speed.

We have done a number of road trips in europe - and both enjoy driving fast cars fast. But if you don;t have a car that will easily do the speeds you want not a whole lot of point in driving. I'm not a real speed demon and have only done about 125 (mph not kph) but if you want to do this be sure to follow the rules - which means driving only to the right (left lane only for passing) and be prepared for larger Mercedes and also real sports cars (Ferraris et al) doing 175 or 180 - and the need to get out of their way immediately.

Also time of year will matter a lot - when are you planning to go?

flpab

I would not do Berlin. Just not enough time unless you go non-stop. Bavaria has so many beautiful natural things you will want to see. We love Garmisch-Partenkirchen. You won't need a car in many places in Germany but it is one of the easiest to drive. Are you flying in and out of Munich or Frankfurt? Time of year?

Fussgaenger

- Land MUC. Night #1 in Munich.

- Day trip by bus to Dachau. Night #2 in Munich.

- Not a lot of good castles in Munich but an interesting palace for sure - maybe visit Nymphenburg Palace sometime while in Munich:
http://www.schloss-nymphenburg.de/en...lace/index.htm

- Train to Salzburg for 3 nights. See Hohensalzburg Castle. Possible day trip to Hohenwerfen Castle by train, 30 min. south of Salzburg:

http://www.salzburg-burgen.at/en/werfen/
http://www.salzburg-burgen.at/en/hoh...burg/index.htm

Day trip from Salzburg by train or bus to Berchtesgaden and Königssee for Bavarian Alps:
http://images.fotocommunity.de/bilde...366c66aa75.jpg

- Train to Gengenbach (Black Forest base) in early morning for night #6 and #7. The 6:43 departure from Salzburg has only one change of train (in Karlsruhe) and arrives at 13:05, leaving plenty of time to see this handsome old walled town:

http://www.stadthotel-gengenbach.de/...innenstadt.jpg

- Day trip on Day 7 along the scenic Black Forest Railway line to nearby villages and sights:

http://www.black-forest-travel.com/p...t-railway.html

Map of BF Railway route: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...28Baden%29.png

Vogtsbauernhof open-air museum in Gutach: http://www.vogtsbauernhof.de/var/vog...taccordion.jpg

Other worthwhile towns on this route include Haslach, Hornberg, Triberg, Villingen; Schiltach on a branch train line is nice as well.

There are double-decker RE trains that cover this route and are nice for sightseeing:
http://www.bensbauernhof.com/russschwarzwaldbahn.jpg

When you stay in certain villages like Gengenbach you get a free pass for rail travel called the KONUS card - it's good for the above route and throughout the Black Forest on the local and regional trains throughout your stay:

http://www.dreisamtal.de/en/service/konus.php?lang=en

- On Day 8 travel somewhere else (University town of Tübingen? Stuttgart?) and then fly out of Stuttgart on Day 9.

PalenQ

Fussganger has outlined a wonderful list of possibilities and his/her usual wealth of expertise on Germany - trains can take you to all those places but in rural areas like the Black Forest even though trains do go thru the most scenic part of it it is more leisurely to drive on side roads thru lovely country. But if interested in learning about German trains check out www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com (check the German chapter in their free online European Planning & Rail Guide for German train itineraries) and www.ricksteves.com.

shabby

Thanks

Dukey1

To Munich itself I would suggest you consider a tour of the Residenze. The Nymphenburg, as has been suggested, is good. If you are into interior decoration then the Residenze will go a long way toward satisfying that.

You could also consider doing the palace at Herrenchiemsee (for the most elaborate interior decoration of all the four Ludwig builds).

Frankly, I would not spend three nights in Salzburg; you can see the highlights in two if you move fast.

PalenQ

A highlight in Munich is also the clock show at the Marienplatz - with little characters coming out and dancing around - huge tourist draw and a lot of fun IME. You can count on having a good time!

PalenQ

http://www.destination-munich.com/va...dt-museum.html

And the Valentin Museum is as they advertsie wacky and 90 year-olds with the parents it says get in free-

shabby

Thanks for your suggestions
This is the plan I came up with


Day 1 late arrival
Day 2 self tour Berlin Wall
Brandenburg Gate
Marx & Engels Platz
Palace of the Republic
Hitler's bunker
Potsdamer Platz
Gendarmenmarkt
Nazi Topography of Terror
Unter den Linden
Checkpoint Charlie
Luftwaffe Ministry
Bebelplatz
Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe
Reichstag

Day 3 self tour - architecture tour (self)

Day 4 Fly to Munich eary arrival - city center
Day 5 Munich Dachua Concentration camp
Olympic Stadium - Daughter wants to do the climb

Day 6 leave Munich For Bavaria with rent a car
Zugpitze and Ludwig castles

Mainhattengirl

Why not join a good walking tour? At 12 euro, they are a bargain and you get to see your top sites in the most efficient way possible as well as learning about them without needing to read about them in a guide book. There are also architecture tours you could join, also very inexpensive.

Rather than visiting Dachau, consider a visit to either Sachsenhausen or Ravensbruck near Berlin. Both of these KZ do a far better job with their exhibits than what I saw in Dachau. Have visited all 3 this past year.

Have gone on 5 tours with Insider Tours and can recommend them.
http://www.insidertour.com/

traveller1959

Your plan sounds very reasonable - basically just two bases: Berlin and München

Some hints for Berlin:

- Sometimes (esp. in summer and on weekends) you get excellent rates for 5-star hotels. Use www.hrs.com for hotel search.

- In order to get a first impression of the cityscape, just take the public bus #100 and take seats on the upper deck. It drives along Unter den Linden and you will see most of the historic buildings.

- The Marx-Engels-Platz has been renamed Schlossplatz. There is currently construction of replica of the former castle on the grounds of the former Palace of the Republic which has been destroyed.

- Hitler's bunker was destroyed in 1947. The only thing you find today is an information board on its original site. See http://berliner-unterwelten.de/fuehr...ker.328.1.html. On this website you find information about other bunkers which can be visited.

- The former Luftwaffenministerium is now the Ministry of the Treasury. You can see it only from outside, right next to Topography of Terror.

All other destinations in your list are easy to visit. Pleaso do not forget the Jewish Museum.

shabby

Thanks for the response!

traveller1959

Some additional information: The bus #100 drives from Alexanderplatz (the former center of East Berlin) via Unter den Linden to Bahnhof Zoologischer Garten in the heart of former West Berlin. Total driving time is 27 minutes, but you can hop on/off everywhere (and of course return on the same line). Fare is € 2.70 p.p. From the bus stops you have short walks to several attractions like Gendarmenmarkt, Checkpoint Charlie etc.

It is like a sightseeing bus and a good and inexpensive way to get a first orientation of the city.

Another nice sightseeing option is a boat trip on the river Spree. They depart at the museum island (Kupfergraben).

Otherwise, you will use most of the time the underground U-Bahn to get around.

PalenQ

IME most of the time I use the S-Bahn, overground, to get around in Berin - a main S-Bahn line pretty much follows the course of bus #100 and you can see very good from the high-up trains with stations near many main sights - Bus #100 is a great option but so is this S-Bahn line.

shabby

@mainhattengirl
Where do I book walking tours?

PalenQ

consider a visit to either Sachsenhausen>

I not say loved Sachenhausen - but was a very sobering experience with more graphic relics like a gas chamber half in ruins you could walk right in. Dachau is fine for folks only going to Munich but I agree with menachem's take on Berlin's better not better but more more.

shabby

Im headed to the south Oberammergau
Any suggestions on Zugspitze
and castle
We love hiking
We driving from Munich to Oberammergau

flpab

Take the cogtrain at least one way. Just n good experience
http://zugspitze.de/en/service/ueberuns/fahrpla

You can hike it but will take a lot of time.
The gorge by the Olympic stadium is my favorite hike.
http://www.bavaria.us/partnach-gorge...irchen-germany

There is even a little beer garden on the top path.

wendy17

We did the Zugspitze last summer. We attempted three days in a row due to cloud cover. Make sure you go to the Tourist Information office in Garmisch and ask for a suggestion. They can tell you what the cloud cover is like on top. My boys had learned about it in school, so they really wanted to go. We made it on the third day, but went early with the first train. The clouds totally covered the view about an hour into our visit up top, so we were in luck. Unfortunately, those on the ground in the loooong line to get up top weren't going to be so lucky. It is an expensive visit and not worth it if the view is totally covered.

But, even if you cannot make it up top, a visit to Garmisch and on to the Eibsee which is a beautiful lake at the base is worth it. We picnicked there and rented kayaks. I would also recommend the outdoor museum at Glentleiten (Freilichtmuseum Glentleiten). It was a wonderful half day just a half hour from Garmisch.

Personally, I've tired of Oberammergau, as there seemed to always be tourists in buses there......I do recommend the tour at Neuschwanstein, although my husband isn't a fan of crowds and he chose to do just Linderhof while I had the kids at a water park. He enjoyed it immensely. That being said, I feel like probably everyone should see Neuschwanstein if in the area, but it will be a little more crowded, etc.