raz1024

Hi all,

Four friends picking up rental car in Munich city 9 am, then travelling to Garmisch-Parkenkirchen area for 3 nights. Need some itinerary advice re logistics for routing and time for activities.

Day 1: Leave Munich by 10am, drive to Mittenwald (lunch), visit Parnach Gorge in afternoon - do the hike to the end, then circle back (how long would this hike take?). Would there be time to also visit Oberamergau + maybe do the Alpine Roller Coaster (seems like a lot packed in for one day??); drive to accommodation in Garmisch.

Day 2: Visit Zugspitze, then Linderhof, Kloster Ettal; accommodation in Garmisch.

Day 3: Book first English tours of Hohenschwangau & Neuschwanstein Castles, lunch; visit Fussen; visit Wieskirch. Accommodation in Garmisch; travelling north early the next morning.

Some have said the Tegelbahn near Fussen has views as good as Zugspitze and that the Karwendel near Mittenwald has good views and is almost as high as Zugspitze - does anyone have comments on these as an alternative to Zugspitze? Although a couple of my friends are really wanting to do the Zugspitze - please offer your comments.

Can anyone suggest reorganization of above intinerary to make a better flow to accommodate everything? Are there other suggestions for visits? Open to any and all suggestions - Thanks!

raz1024

Revised above: (Base in Garmisch)

Day 1: Drive from Munich, visit Mittenwald and then hike Partnach Gorge (though it looks like we actually go through Garmisch to get to Mittenwald - so a bit of backtracking) - Garmisch for the night

Day 2: Zugspitze, Linderhof, Kloster Ettal - Garmisch for the night

Day 3: Hohenschwangau & Neuschwanstein Castles, Fussen, Wieskirch,
Oberammergau - Garmisch for the night

From here we go to Ulm - should we be doing Day 3 backwards and be switching hotels for our last night in this area?? Don't really want to do that, but now that I look closer at our itinerary, we will be doing more back-tracking - if we finished day 3 with the castle visits in the afternoon, and stayed the night near Fussen, we would not be back-tracking enroute to Ulm the next morning...

How does the balance look for activities for each day?

raz1024

flpab, We are going in September.
How much time would you recommend we set aside for doing Zugspitze?
Thx!

eventide

We spent two weeks over Christmas just in Garmisch-Partenkirchen. We were return visitors. The gorge is lovely, if you can skip Mittenwald (per flpab's suggestion) you can take the lift up the Eckbaurbahn right next to
Olympic stadium and hike the loop through the gorge. It was half a day in snow with two small children. The views are beyond words. Mittenwald is sweet but nothing there you won't get in GaPa. Quick 20 min train ride from Garmisch if you decide to go however, train runs hourly. Buy the Bayern pass for train travel. You can put up to 4 people on it.
You sure are going to be busy! Oberammergau is not the sleepy village it was 20 years ago, it is lovely but GaPa can't be beat for sights and shopping honestly.
Good luck.

dugi_otok

Some suggestions:
Day 1: Pick up car as early as possible. You have a full day. If the car rental agency is near your hotel you and your alternate driver/navigator could pick up the car and return to the hotel for the others and the luggage. Drive to Oberammagau, about 1-1/2 hours. It is on the route Munich to Garmisch. Explore the town. Have lunch. Plan on 2 hours. Drive 20 min to Linderhof. About 2 hrs to tour the palace and the grotto. Drive 15 min back to Ettal. If time allows tour the Monastery and Pilgrimage church. If not, save for Day 3, you will driving by Ettal on your return from the castles. Drive 30 min to your hotel in Garmisch. Dinner in the pedestrian zone.
Day 2: Zugspitze in the AM. Two ways to ascend the Zugspitze from Garmisch. Cogwheel train(Zugspitzbahn from the Banhof Zugspitzbahn)(1.25 hrs one-way) or cogwheel train-plus-cable car(Eibseeseilbahn) at Eibsee-10 min ascent (45 min total one-way). Both cost 52 euro. If you take the train you complete the journey to the summit on the modern Gletscherbahn cable car. You can also drive to Eibsee and take the cable car, not sure if you save any $$$. Lunch before descending.
http://zugspitze.de/en/winter/mountain/zugspitze
Partnachklamm (Partnach Gorge) makes a good pairing with Zugspitze in the AM and Partnach Gorge (2+ hrs) in the PM. The trailhead is about 2km south of the Olympic stadium.
http://www.partnachklamm.eu/flyer/eng-flyer-inet.pdf
www.partnachklamm-info.de German only
In the late afternoon you may head to Mittenwald (30 min) and stay for dinner.

Day 3: Drive the southern route through Austria to Hohenschwangau & Neuschwanstein Castles for your pre-reserved English tours of the castles. Do not park at the first parking lot as you can keep going and park near the ticket office. You will bypass the long no reservation line and go up to the reservation only window. Smile at those in the long line. After the tours have lunch at the restaurant which is half way down the hill from Neuschwanstein. Drive the northern route back to Garmisch through Steingaden stopping at Wieskirche. Continue on to the Sommerrodelbahn Steckenberg, near Oberammergau, for one of the better summer luge rides. Dinner G-P followed by Bavarian music.

Next day: Drive to Ulm (2hrs) drop off your friend to visit relatives and continue on to Rothenburg ( 1-1/2 hrs) for the night.

raz1024

Appreciate everyone's opinions on Mittenwald - so it looks like it is a miss, unless we decide to go there for dinner one night. Had read so many people's comments about Mittenwald, that it seemed like a "must-see", however, maybe not in relation to everything else we will be seeing in the area...

We cannot pick up our rental car in Munich until 9am (since it is a Sunday), so I figured at least a half hour for paperwork etc., otherwise I would try for a much earlier start for our drive to Garmisch area.

dugi_otok, thanks for the day to day re-organization of our itinerary and great suggestions. In general, it sounds like everyone thinks we are trying to pack in too much in our few days...
(story of my travel life...)

A few questions:

Leaving Munich: Anyone know what to expect re traffic driving out of Munich city on a Sunday morning?

Linderhof Palace: I see on the Linderhof Palace website that a person can reserve - is this necessary? Would there normally be a long wait to get in (on a Sunday afternoon) -I see it is open until 6pm. I cannot at the moment, find visiting times for Kloster Ettal, but I am thinking they close earlier ?4:30pm - thought I read it somewhere; so maybe visit Ettal and then Linderhof? or maybe that would be too rushed for Linderhof Palace? (and of course, like suggested, could leave visiting Ettal until Day 3)
- I think a lot depends on how busy these places are on a Sunday...

Zugspitze: It looks like the cogwheel train starts right IN Garmisch?? -thus no need to drive unless of course we need to drive to the Banhof Zugspitzbahn from our hotel- ?paid parking there (will map out the distance from our hotel) - or would it make more sense just to drive to Eibsee so our car is possibly handier for drive on to Partnach Gorge for the afternoon?
- If we were to take the cogwheel from Garmisch, then switch to the cable car at Eibsee, is there a wait to get on the cable car?
- How much time would one want to spend once at the summit of Zugspitze?

Austria: If we were to drive into Austria enroute to the castles, does that mean we would have to stop for border-crossing checks and how much time does this usually take (as there would be two checks - into Austria, then back into Germany)? I also read somewhere that gas is cheaper in Austria, thus good time to fill up the tank.

dugi_otok, you suggested stopping for lunch halfway down hill from Neuschwanstein Castle visit - is this a particularly good restaurant (for food) or is it lovely views? (or both) -I imagine it is somewhat expensive if it is the only restaurant along the way?
Also, how much time would one allow for a visit in Fussen?

Re restaurants: is it necessary to reserve for dinner in Garmisch or Mittenwald, and if so, can anyone make suggestions? or can we just meander about and find a place to our liking...

Accommodation: we have booked a hotel about a 10 minute or so walk from the tourist office in Garmisch (I assume this is where the pedestrian walking zone is?) - (dugi_otok, we tried for the hotel you suggested but it was already full).
Since booking our hotel, I was reading that Parkenkirchen is a more desirable place to stay than Garmisch (more quaint I guess) - I realize they are close together, but I had never read this before - any comments from anyone of preference between the two places?

Thanks all!

flpab

flpab, We are going in September.
How much time would you recommend we set aside for doing Zugspitze?
Thx

Half a day at least. We always eat lunch since the views are so beautiful.

phillyboy

raz - We spent 4 days in Garmisch in September, and did most of the activities you are planning. We dipped into Austria for 15 - 20 minutes while driving to our Garmisch accommodation, and again one other time ... I'm thinking it was on our way to Hohenschwangau & Neuschwanstein.

There are no border checks, though I believe a vignette is required on highways - you can find some information at the link below.

http://www.austria.info/au/plan-your...a-1162412.html

Because we were just skirting the border for these two short trips, we took a chance and didn't purchase the vignette - we did not get caught, but I'm certainly no expert in this area, so not recommending that to you because I cannot say what the actual chances of getting caught may be. Those with more experience driving in Austria can possibly be of more help.

It's a beautiful and pristine area, have a great trip.

flpab

You are over thinking, it is really a laid back area. Traffic on a Sunday from Munich will be ok, just follow the speed limits as it does change, stay out of the passing lanes. You are thinking of stopping in Ettal on your way to Garmisch? No problem. Just go inside, take a look around and head to Oberammergau, walk around, have lunch and head to Linderhof. Linderhof grounds are very pretty, house tour is very short. Wagner's piano would have been loved by Liberace. Then head to your accommodations. You can get to the top of the Zugspitze two ways, cog train or cable car. I like the cog train for the experience but come back the cable car. It cost the same if you go from Eibsee or Garmisch.
Parkenkirchen use to have our favorite place to eat but they closed. The street there is beautiful, part of the Roman Rd. http://www.gasthof-fraundorfer.de/english/index.php hokey but a fun night there. Make a reservation for here.

raz1024

flpab, is there a restaurant at the top of Zugspitze then?

phillyboy - would you say we are doing too much for only 3 days in this area? Can you offer suggestions of what you might make less of a priority, and where you would spend more of your time?

I looked at the Austrian driving rules and we would then require an international driver's license just for that little jaunt (which we don't require in Germany - costs $25 Cdn = 18 euro), plus the cost of a vignette is 8.20 Euro. Would it be worth that expense for the small amount of time we'd be travelling in Austria do you think? And would the scenery be that much different?

Thanks

dugi_otok

Leaving Munich. Ask the car rental agency the best way to get to the Highway to Garmisch/Oberammagau. I would not expect any traffic problems on a Sunday not even the feared Umleitung.

Linderhof. No long waits that time of year. The ticket will give a tour time for the 30 min English tour of the Palace. Then visit the delightful park surrounding the Schloss, several fountains, Moorish kiosk, and the spectacular Venus-Grottte. Plan on 2 hours here.

Ettal is open 7am-7:45pm in summer, 8am-6pm winter. After you visit the church, you can purchase carvings, candles, liqueurs, and Ettaler beer in the abbey shop.

Zugspitze. Take the train from Garmisch. It will be part of your vacation. Take the Eibsee-Seilbahn cable car to save 30 min in getting to the summit.How much time up there is up to you. You can cross over to the Austria side. On clear days the views extend to Germany, Italy, Switzerland, and Austria. Have lunch. The only time there are waits to descend is bad weather. You will not see that.

Castles via Austria. There are no formal border crossings. It is like state to state in the USA. But you need an Austrian Vignette. Purchase at a gas station in Germany before you cross the border, about $10 for 10 days. You will be caught by waiting police just across the border. Heavy fines to 400 euros. You must adhere it to your window. It is a 1 hour drive to the castles.

The suggested stopping for lunch halfway down hill from Neuschwanstein Castle visit. The restaurant does have very good food and is not expensive. We were walking down from the castle. My daughter-in-law wanted to stop for lunch. We were pleasantly surprised. All 5 of us ordered differently and everyone thought it was good. Salads to lunch plates.The service was good. The college age waitresses were very nice and helpful in ordering.I recommend it.

Fussen is a pleasant town with an ancient abbey, museums, and is surrounded by lakes but is mainly a base for seeing the castles. I would just drive out and head for Weiskirche. Of course, if you see something interesting do stop. We did stop to ride the Tegelberg luge. My grandchildren wanted to stop at every luge that we saw.

No need to make dinner reservations in Garmisch unless you want to go to a special restaurant like the Gasthof Fraundorfer.

Mittenwald. I hope you can fit in Mittenwald. It is in a beautiful location below the Kranzberg and Karwendel massifs and is a beautiful town with an abundance of frescoed house facades. A great representative of Alpine Germany.

flpab

http://europeforvisitors.com/germany...estaurants.htm The panorama bistro, funny story. We were there with friends for the day and a film crew was doing a documentary on a waitress that worked there. She spoke English and they asked if we would eat and let her wait on us speaking English. Free meal and beers. We did it and saw the film several months later. There are several places to eat and the food was very good.
Oberammagau is one of my fav places in Bavaria. It is home to the Passsion place but also the NATO school. Just about the most picturesque place ever. Just pop in and look at cathedral in Ettal and save an hour for this on your way to Linderhof. If you want to skip anything it would be Neuschwanstein Castle.

scrb11

Going to Munich the week of April 6.

Thinking of doing this as a day trip with the Bayern ticket.

If the peak isn't clear, is it work the 42.50 Euro for the cogwheel and cable car combo (is it cable car for both up and down to/from the peak?)?

Is it worth touring around Garmisch-Parkenkirchen or possibly taking the 20-30 minute ride to Mittenwald if the weather isn't clear at the peak?

Guess I would have to pack a heavier coat and thermal underwear and boots just for this day trip.

dugi_otok

<< I looked at the Austrian driving rules and we would then require an international driver's license just for that little jaunt (which we don't require in Germany - costs $25 Cdn = 18 euro), plus the cost of a vignette is 8.20 Euro. Would it be worth that expense for the small amount of time we'd be travelling in Austria do you think? And would the scenery be that much different? >>
It is good that you are paying attention to detail.I like the trip you have planned especially the way you have incorporated the requirements of your friend who wants to visit relatives during your vacation.

About the drive from Garmisch to the castles.
You do not need the Austrian vignette for the drive from Garmisch to Hohenschwangau (reference Rick Steves).Sorry for the bad information. You will be in Austria for 17 miles of the 38 mile trip.You can also ignore the International driving permit which is not a drivers license but is only a translation of your home drivers license.I recommended the this route to the castles because it is about 15 min shorter and less likely to have any traffic problems than an all Germany route.You will see some Austrian villages and drive through Fussen. I would not call it scenic. I think it is better than taking the same route to and form Garmisch to the castles.

phillyboy

raz - Here's the basics of what we did during the time we spent in Garmisch and environs:

Day 1 - Saturday - Arrived late afternoon. Beautiful sunny day, walked around town and had dinner at nice local restaurant recommended by our hotel. Don't remember name of restaurant, here is the hotel

https://www.hoteledelweiss.de/language/en

Day 2 - Sunday - Another gorgeous sunny day. The hotel staff advised that this would be a good day for Zugspitze because it was so clear, so we did that - it was great. We drove to the mountain and took the cable cars - I think there were 2 of them - to the summit. Our plan was to next walk the Partnach Gorge, which is just south of Garmisch. We drove there, but my friend's wife was not feeling up to the walk, so we went back to the hotel and drank heavily for the remainder of the afternoon, then went to dinner.

Day 3 - Monday - Another very nice day. Drove to Hohenschwangau for the two castles. Between the drive (about 40 minutes), waiting in line for reservations and tickets, and the actual visits, this turned out to be a whole day. As others have said, though Neuschwanstein is spectacular from the outside, the tour itself was underwhelming. Hohenschwangau was much more interesting.

Day 4 - Tuesday - Gray and drizzly. Went to Linderhof, which was really great. Beautiful small palace with gorgeous estate grounds, waterfalls, and other interesting sights on the grounds. Went from there to Oberammergau for a late afternoon lunch and a couple of pleasant hours walking around the town.

We left Garmisch on Wednesday, spent the day at Oktoberfest before flying home on Thursday.

Hope this is helpful.

raz1024

Thanks for itemizing your days in Garmisch, phillyboy - Did you have reserved tickets for the 2 castles? What time were your tickets for? Just trying to figure out why the visits took the entire day. We were planning to book the tours early-ish in the morning and were thinking we would have most of the afternoon available for other sights. Also, you say it only took 40 min. to get to the castles but when I go on viamichelin.com, it shows 1-1.25 hrs for the route through Austria.

Thanks dugi_otok, but I am a little confused re the driver's permit and the vignette for Austria. Are you saying that neither is needed because it is only a short drive in Austria and thus, not much chance in getting ticketed, or that it is not required for a short trip (but how would the authorities know)? Looking at Austria's regulations, it definitely says that an international driver's permit is required when driving in Austria and also the vignette. Can you clarify this for me? What exactly does Rick Steves say about this?
Danke!

dugi_otok

Hi raz
From Rick Steves Germany in a section which he calls Arrival in Reutte(Austrian village on this road which he touts as a base when visiting the castles): "While Austria requires a toll sticker(Vignette) for driving on its highways(8 euros/10 days,buy at the border, gas stations, car-rental agencies, or Tabak shops), those just dipping into Tirol from Bavaria do not need one.
In another section of the Rick Steves book Know Before You Go "If you're planning on renting a car in Germany, you'll need your US driver's license. It's recommended-but not required-that you also carry an International Driving Permit." My own experience in driving in Europe for the last 50 years I have never been asked to show an International Driving Permit. I have had an IDP on occasion, but I would not get one for your trip. You should do whatever you are comfortable with.

No drinking and driving.Also Speed cameras are everywhere. We were greeted with a traffic ticket notice from Avis France when we got home last year.Had to pay a fine and an Avis handling fee.

phillyboy

raz - I'm going just from memory, and the 40 minute travel time may have been incorrect - it may have been an hour or a bit more.

We did not leave first thing in the morning. Our hotel called the ticket office around 9:30 or 10 AM, and told us we wouldn't need reservations on that day. We arrived late morning, and got in the ticket line. The process was that you tell them which castle, or both, that you wish to visit. We wanted both, and they set the tour times with the aid of some computer program - very efficient.

I think there were 2 or 2 1/2 hours between the two tour times. Even though the actual tours were only about 45 minutes each, this time was needed due to the amount of time needed just to get up and down to/from each castle - waiting for bus or carriage, walking, or whatever possible combination you choose.

I suppose if you leave first thing in the morning, you might be able to fit in another minor activity nearby on the same day, but not very much that I could see.

dlongan

raz 1024
We are going in May, but will be in Germany 3 weeks. We won't have a car and are doing trains, but starting our trip by basing in GP 4 days.
I'll be sure to post when we get back

raz1024

dlongan, I will look forward to your post when you get back - will be interested on how much you were able to accomplish in those 4 days in GP via trains and also any tips you will have for those of us travelling there. Thanks

phillyboy, I have taken a close look at the map of Hohenschwangau and now have a better understanding of what is actually involved in a visit to these castles. Even with reserved tickets, we need to pick them up 1 hour prior to our booked time, then a 20-30 min. walk to get up to Schloss Hohenschwangau for a 35 min. tour, then back down, then another 40 min. walk up to Neuschwanstein Castle for 30 min. tour, then back down again.
Hence, since we have a 1+ hour drive from Garmisch, I can't see the four of us getting there by 8am in order to pick up tickets for first tour at 9am, and I can see now why there would be at least 2 hrs necessary between the 2 tours times, and also why there won't be much time for too much else in the afternoon - though in dugi's rearrangement of our itineray on that day, it is stops at villages along the drive back to GP, so nothing big...

phillyboy, you said you were there in September - do you remember how long the lineup was for the non-reserved tickets, and was it a weekend or a weekday? Was thinking that if we didn't do the reserved tickets, it would allow us more flexibility for choosing a nice weather day for Zugpitze, but also don't want to wait in a huge line...

And did anyone do the Museum in addition to the 2 castles - is it worth the extra euros for all three?

Dugi, I see on the Hohenschwangau map there are several restaurants- looks like one on either end of the museum and another partway down the road towards the first 3 parking areas - I didn't see one partway down the hill from Neuschwanstein Castle. Just trying to figure out which one you had lunch at?
PS Hope your speeding ticket wasn't a big one... and thanks for the clarification on Austria.