Germany driving itinerary starting questions
Mar 8th, 2014, 10:53 PM
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Germany driving itinerary starting questions
Hello everyone, I had so much help for my Italy trip, I am back for my Germany trip... Although will end up in Greece at the end of it, but first things first...
Basics: husband and myself, 3 weeks in total, we are in our late 40's (well I am, he's not
are open to all suggestions, LOVE driving... going to Germany for him to fulfil his 'bucket list' of driving the Nurburgring.
As we're coming a long way, and as we are in the area, I would like to go to Amsterdam and Hamburg to see where my parents lived. All else from there is open to suggestion.
I'm thinking of the following:
Arrive Amsterdam August 22nd/23rd TBC 2 nights
Fly to Hamburg 2 nights
Hire car and drive to Nurburg stay 1 night for the Nurburgring
From there drive the Romantic Road with possibly 3 stops on the way for overnight stays (depending on your recommendations)
flow through and end in Munich for 3 nights. Will do day trips here with one to Garmish and Zugspitze
So my questions are where would you stay on this route? Hotel recommendations (are open to all budgets) , and what's a must see list?
I have seen the driving distances, we are happy to drive and stop where we want.... I know it's quick but I'm trying to get a good look at as much as we can see in approx 10-12 days
We like food, wine, romance, a bit of everything as far as scenery goes and historic tours.
So please fire away and let me know your thoughts and recommendations....
Thanks in advance KC
Basics: husband and myself, 3 weeks in total, we are in our late 40's (well I am, he's not
are open to all suggestions, LOVE driving... going to Germany for him to fulfil his 'bucket list' of driving the Nurburgring. As we're coming a long way, and as we are in the area, I would like to go to Amsterdam and Hamburg to see where my parents lived. All else from there is open to suggestion.
I'm thinking of the following:
Arrive Amsterdam August 22nd/23rd TBC 2 nights
Fly to Hamburg 2 nights
Hire car and drive to Nurburg stay 1 night for the Nurburgring
From there drive the Romantic Road with possibly 3 stops on the way for overnight stays (depending on your recommendations)
flow through and end in Munich for 3 nights. Will do day trips here with one to Garmish and Zugspitze
So my questions are where would you stay on this route? Hotel recommendations (are open to all budgets) , and what's a must see list?
I have seen the driving distances, we are happy to drive and stop where we want.... I know it's quick but I'm trying to get a good look at as much as we can see in approx 10-12 days
We like food, wine, romance, a bit of everything as far as scenery goes and historic tours.
So please fire away and let me know your thoughts and recommendations....
Thanks in advance KC
Mar 9th, 2014, 12:19 AM
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Hi KC.. nice to have you over here in August..
Let me just offer some bits and pieces to get this started:
Hamburg - Nürburgring
While you may love to drive, that drive is - unfortunately - mostly through some rather bland scenery on A1, one of our busiest motorways. You can expect massive delays and bumper-to-bumper traffic once you hit the Rhine-Ruhr metro area (near Dortmund) all way till you got around Cologne. In general, you can expect heavy traffic in each direction on all 6 lanes from Hamburg till you got past Cologne. No zooming around at 200 kph.
An alternative could be to take the highspeed train from Hamburg to Koblenz and pick up car there.
Nürburgring
You probably already know that you must not drive the race track with a regular rental car or you void the insurance. And you WANT insurance as accidents are common. It is not a gentlemen's highspeed driving experience, but you will be competing with many 20somethings in their tuned 200HP Ford Fiestas or Golf GTIs which have a limited understanding of mortality.
An alternative could be a ride in a race taxi. These drivers know how to do it very fast and very safe.
Romantic Road / Munich
The RR itself is not a really scenic drive, the towns along that virtual route are. Coming from the Nürburgring, you probably will spend the first night in Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Next night could be in the Füssen area to be at the castles first thing next mornng.
As the RR will take you in the vicinity of Garmisch, Zugspitze and Linderhof, it will make more sense to add at night here than to backtrack as a day trip from Munich.
In summer we usually get PM haze from midday on sunny day. So the sunniest days often have pretty poor visibility from Zugspitze. You should decide when you get here if it's worth it on the specific day and have a plan B.
Have fun and happy travels.
Let me just offer some bits and pieces to get this started:
Hamburg - Nürburgring
While you may love to drive, that drive is - unfortunately - mostly through some rather bland scenery on A1, one of our busiest motorways. You can expect massive delays and bumper-to-bumper traffic once you hit the Rhine-Ruhr metro area (near Dortmund) all way till you got around Cologne. In general, you can expect heavy traffic in each direction on all 6 lanes from Hamburg till you got past Cologne. No zooming around at 200 kph.
An alternative could be to take the highspeed train from Hamburg to Koblenz and pick up car there.
Nürburgring
You probably already know that you must not drive the race track with a regular rental car or you void the insurance. And you WANT insurance as accidents are common. It is not a gentlemen's highspeed driving experience, but you will be competing with many 20somethings in their tuned 200HP Ford Fiestas or Golf GTIs which have a limited understanding of mortality.
An alternative could be a ride in a race taxi. These drivers know how to do it very fast and very safe.
Romantic Road / Munich
The RR itself is not a really scenic drive, the towns along that virtual route are. Coming from the Nürburgring, you probably will spend the first night in Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Next night could be in the Füssen area to be at the castles first thing next mornng.
As the RR will take you in the vicinity of Garmisch, Zugspitze and Linderhof, it will make more sense to add at night here than to backtrack as a day trip from Munich.
In summer we usually get PM haze from midday on sunny day. So the sunniest days often have pretty poor visibility from Zugspitze. You should decide when you get here if it's worth it on the specific day and have a plan B.
Have fun and happy travels.
Mar 9th, 2014, 11:23 AM
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I used to fly into Amsterdam and drive as many miles as I could go in two weeks' time. But that was before gasoline was $8 per U.S. gallon. Now, we travel slower and don't drive so far.
I would think that flight on KLM Amsterdam-Hamburg is expensive since no budget air carriers cover that route.
Your trip might go smoother if you flew into Munich and went north to Nuremburg. From there, you could go east to Prague, down to Cesky Krumlov, south and west to Salzburg, down to Innsbruck, back to Zugspitze and back into Munich.
Or you could go west and visit the Rhine & Mosel Valleys.
I do love Amsterdam, but we're now going in paths of least resistance to keep down travel costs--looking for cities to visit that are just a little closer together.
I would think that flight on KLM Amsterdam-Hamburg is expensive since no budget air carriers cover that route.
Your trip might go smoother if you flew into Munich and went north to Nuremburg. From there, you could go east to Prague, down to Cesky Krumlov, south and west to Salzburg, down to Innsbruck, back to Zugspitze and back into Munich.
Or you could go west and visit the Rhine & Mosel Valleys.
I do love Amsterdam, but we're now going in paths of least resistance to keep down travel costs--looking for cities to visit that are just a little closer together.
Mar 9th, 2014, 12:27 PM
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"...please fire away and let me know your thoughts and recommendations."
The Romantic Road really isn't so much.
Other places in Bavaria that are not far from the RR and worth researching:
Bamberg
Sommerhausen, Ochsenfurt, Marktbreit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUgpoQIFHI
Nuremberg
Iphofen (photos): http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org...&threadID=2985
Weissenburg
Bad Windsheim
After the Nurburgring (whatever) you appear to have completely overlooked what Germans consider the most "romantic" area in all of Germany - the Rhine and Mosel River valleys.
http://www.romantic-germany.info/Rom...ne.4110.0.html
http://www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/mos...ightsengl.html
http://flyhahn.com/regions/romantic-...te-germany.htm
http://www.romantic-cities.com/Cities.5616.0.html
The Romantic Road really isn't so much.
Other places in Bavaria that are not far from the RR and worth researching:
Bamberg
Sommerhausen, Ochsenfurt, Marktbreit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUgpoQIFHI
Nuremberg
Iphofen (photos): http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org...&threadID=2985
Weissenburg
Bad Windsheim
After the Nurburgring (whatever) you appear to have completely overlooked what Germans consider the most "romantic" area in all of Germany - the Rhine and Mosel River valleys.
http://www.romantic-germany.info/Rom...ne.4110.0.html
http://www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/mos...ightsengl.html
http://flyhahn.com/regions/romantic-...te-germany.htm
http://www.romantic-cities.com/Cities.5616.0.html
Mar 9th, 2014, 03:11 PM
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<<<<<<I would think that flight on KLM Amsterdam-Hamburg is expensive since no budget air carriers cover that route.
I was just about to write and say that both Lufthansa and KLM have 99 Euro round-trips on that route (some people fail to make the return flight) but just looked and Germanwings now flies that route now for as little as $56 one way. Wow!
I was just about to write and say that both Lufthansa and KLM have 99 Euro round-trips on that route (some people fail to make the return flight) but just looked and Germanwings now flies that route now for as little as $56 one way. Wow!
Mar 9th, 2014, 10:51 PM
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Since you asked..
I find "romantic" a somewhat subjective assessment.
While it is true that the famous middle section of the Rhine between Bonn and Mainz is also heavily visited by Germans, it falls into the category "must be avoided at all costs" for other Germans.
Personally, I find it too touristy, too overrun, too much artificial Gemütlichkeit (in the towns). More like Disneyland with a real river.
But I must admit that in 45 years I have never been there and have no intention to go - so judge for yourself how valid this makes my statements.
The Mosel Valley is somewhat nicer, i.e. less overrun.
But everyone has to find his/her favorites..
I find "romantic" a somewhat subjective assessment.
While it is true that the famous middle section of the Rhine between Bonn and Mainz is also heavily visited by Germans, it falls into the category "must be avoided at all costs" for other Germans.
Personally, I find it too touristy, too overrun, too much artificial Gemütlichkeit (in the towns). More like Disneyland with a real river.
But I must admit that in 45 years I have never been there and have no intention to go - so judge for yourself how valid this makes my statements.
The Mosel Valley is somewhat nicer, i.e. less overrun.
But everyone has to find his/her favorites..
Mar 9th, 2014, 10:56 PM
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P.S. re. flight connections:
Lufthansa re-organized their business last year.
Any domestic or intra-European flight does not go to/from Frankfurt or Munich is now served by their low-cost (or rather mid-cost) subsidiary Germanwings.
While this means that all the usual hassle of low-cost flying applies (3 or 4 fare types now, from no frills no bags to flex all inclusive), the advantage is that Germanwings always has individually priced one-way fares. While those often had been extremely costly with LH (or other "big" airlines).
Lufthansa re-organized their business last year.
Any domestic or intra-European flight does not go to/from Frankfurt or Munich is now served by their low-cost (or rather mid-cost) subsidiary Germanwings.
While this means that all the usual hassle of low-cost flying applies (3 or 4 fare types now, from no frills no bags to flex all inclusive), the advantage is that Germanwings always has individually priced one-way fares. While those often had been extremely costly with LH (or other "big" airlines).
Mar 10th, 2014, 05:44 AM
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@Aramis: The Rhine as I'm sure you're aware figured prominently in German Romanticism - Heine and the Loreley, Goethe, Hugo and other writers and artists all made that happen, and the Rhine, as I'm sure you know, has been a pilgrimage destination of sorts for German travelers for a couple of centuries.
If you think Rhine and "romantic" don't go together in Germany, do an images search for "Rheinromantik."
I'll confess I've done no poll of today's Germans to see which German destinations they find most romantic. Everyone's personal definition of "romantic" is just that - personal - but since the OP writes...
"We like food, wine, romance, a bit of everything as far as scenery goes and historic tours."
...then I really can't think of a better German destination myself than the Rhine/Mosel region, and I think a lot of Germans would agree. But since you appear to think that Germans would generally disagree, Aramis, perhaps you can explain why and suggest an even more romantic region with wineries, history, and good scenery. That's what the OP is looking for.
If you think Rhine and "romantic" don't go together in Germany, do an images search for "Rheinromantik."
I'll confess I've done no poll of today's Germans to see which German destinations they find most romantic. Everyone's personal definition of "romantic" is just that - personal - but since the OP writes...
"We like food, wine, romance, a bit of everything as far as scenery goes and historic tours."
...then I really can't think of a better German destination myself than the Rhine/Mosel region, and I think a lot of Germans would agree. But since you appear to think that Germans would generally disagree, Aramis, perhaps you can explain why and suggest an even more romantic region with wineries, history, and good scenery. That's what the OP is looking for.
Mar 10th, 2014, 04:07 PM
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The Mosel is gorgeous and intimate.
The Rhine is a noisy barge-way doubling as a twin tracked rail line. I have no doubt that it possessed much more romance before it became a distressingly commercial river valley.
They don't even remotely resemble each other in appeal, in my opinion.
The Rhine is a noisy barge-way doubling as a twin tracked rail line. I have no doubt that it possessed much more romance before it became a distressingly commercial river valley.
They don't even remotely resemble each other in appeal, in my opinion.
Mar 11th, 2014, 01:27 AM
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Wow, thanks for your replies...
Cowboy: really appreciate your feedback. You've definitely given me something to reconsider. As this is a loose itinery, I haven't booked yet so am open to route ideas. I will have a look at part train, part drive.
DH will be hiring a BMW M3 to do 4 laps of the ring, doing this on a weekday from 5pm. Will definitely have insurance and NOT the rental car.
We don't have to do the RR, I just looked up good drives and this of course came up. Will look at alternatives.
Bamaman: will look at starting points and see if it's better flying in and out of different cities. Thank for that
Mimar: was doing Amsterdam first as we had the car and wanted to make sure we dropped off in the same country, but you're right. We could drop it off and last visit would be Amsterdam before Greece.
Aramis: thanks for your help, I will look at the Mosel too....
Really, the musts are Amsterdam, Hamburg and Nurburgring... All the rest needs to fit in between there somewhere so trying to plan how to see the best parts of Germany in 12ish days... And the most enjoyable that combines all the bits in my opening statement.
Really appreciate your help. The more I read and research, the more confusing it is... Makes me want to see it all!
Cowboy: really appreciate your feedback. You've definitely given me something to reconsider. As this is a loose itinery, I haven't booked yet so am open to route ideas. I will have a look at part train, part drive.
DH will be hiring a BMW M3 to do 4 laps of the ring, doing this on a weekday from 5pm. Will definitely have insurance and NOT the rental car.
We don't have to do the RR, I just looked up good drives and this of course came up. Will look at alternatives.
Bamaman: will look at starting points and see if it's better flying in and out of different cities. Thank for that
Mimar: was doing Amsterdam first as we had the car and wanted to make sure we dropped off in the same country, but you're right. We could drop it off and last visit would be Amsterdam before Greece.
Aramis: thanks for your help, I will look at the Mosel too....
Really, the musts are Amsterdam, Hamburg and Nurburgring... All the rest needs to fit in between there somewhere so trying to plan how to see the best parts of Germany in 12ish days... And the most enjoyable that combines all the bits in my opening statement.
Really appreciate your help. The more I read and research, the more confusing it is... Makes me want to see it all!
Mar 11th, 2014, 05:20 AM
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"The Rhine is a noisy barge-way doubling as a twin tracked rail line. I have no doubt that it possessed much more romance before it became a distressingly commercial river valley... They (Rhine and Mosel) don't even remotely resemble each other in appeal, in my opinion."
The Rhine Castles were built centuries ago precisely because the Rhine was such an important trade route - a "distressingly commercial river valley" - for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Without the shipping industry, the Rhine might be just another pretty landscape. But it's on the UNESCO World Heritage list now - and on so many cruise and tour itineraries - in large part because of the commercial activity (mostly shipping and wine-making) that has gone on there for centuries:
"The 65km-stretch of the Middle Rhine Valley, with its castles, historic towns and vineyards, graphically illustrates the long history of human involvement with a dramatic and varied natural landscape. It is intimately associated with history and legend and for centuries has exercised a powerful influence on writers, artists and composers."
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1066
Your impression of the Rhine is noted, but it is clearly not consensus.
The Rhine Castles were built centuries ago precisely because the Rhine was such an important trade route - a "distressingly commercial river valley" - for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Without the shipping industry, the Rhine might be just another pretty landscape. But it's on the UNESCO World Heritage list now - and on so many cruise and tour itineraries - in large part because of the commercial activity (mostly shipping and wine-making) that has gone on there for centuries:
"The 65km-stretch of the Middle Rhine Valley, with its castles, historic towns and vineyards, graphically illustrates the long history of human involvement with a dramatic and varied natural landscape. It is intimately associated with history and legend and for centuries has exercised a powerful influence on writers, artists and composers."
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1066
Your impression of the Rhine is noted, but it is clearly not consensus.
Mar 11th, 2014, 08:11 PM
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My point was that I would not describe the Rhine as romantic. The fact that it is historic, possessed of ruined castles, and has long been a means of moving goods and people does not change that.
I don't think too many people's hearts go a flutter at the sight of trains lurching down the twin Deutsche Bahn tracks (on each side of the river) as barges conga up and down it.
"Glorious was" is not "Glorious is".
I don't think too many people's hearts go a flutter at the sight of trains lurching down the twin Deutsche Bahn tracks (on each side of the river) as barges conga up and down it.
"Glorious was" is not "Glorious is".
Mar 12th, 2014, 09:40 PM
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I loved driving the RR route in 2008. Flew into Frankfurt and left that day for Rothenburg. Stopped in a beautiful town and a small church. Used the Green Michelin guide to stop at 3 star sites along the way and got to Rothenburg around 5PM and stayed at B&B outside the wall. Went from there to Cinderella's castle (what I call Neuschwanstein). Stopping at another village and another famous church on the way. Left castle and drove to Linderhof and spent the night at the B&B there on grounds of castle (really pretty). So sorry that I did not keep journal. Loved the villages with all the gorgeous flowers and colorful buildings--and the cleanliness. Looked like they mowed the pastures up the sides of the hills. Going back this summer to take my grand-daughter. Went to Mainau to the gardens there and Lindau but will have to miss them this time. Did Black Forest drive too.
Have fun.
Have fun.
Mar 12th, 2014, 09:55 PM
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I agree with Cowboy's suggestions for the Romantic Road. If you stay in Rothenburg, you can do a day trip to Dinkelsbuhl and Nordinglen. At the northern end, Wurzburg is very interesting too. We found all the gasthofs & small family hotels along the RR to be well-priced and impeccably clean. Fussen is a good spot for the castles, especially first thing as they will be incredibly busy in August. From Fussen, if you do head across to Garmisch, make sure to visit Linderhof Schloss as well.
Mar 13th, 2014, 01:03 AM
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Thanks Pat and Rosemary, great feedback. Have gotten through a fair bit of planning and your comments really help.
Looks like from the comments that no matter who you ask, you will get a different opinion... LOVE it! Certainly makes the research more interesting.... Thanks everyone... KC
Looks like from the comments that no matter who you ask, you will get a different opinion... LOVE it! Certainly makes the research more interesting.... Thanks everyone... KC
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