Germany-Austria 18 days itinerary
Jun 6th, 2013, 09:50 AM
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Germany-Austria 18 days itinerary
Hi all! This is my first post, but I had spent quite some time reading through earlier posts about Germany and Austria in the last week.
I'm arriving in Frankfurt on the 13th of September and coming back on the 1st of October - 18 nights total.
This will be my first time to Germany and Austria. Berlin will be the capital of choice of this trip, Vienna, I'm sorry but I will let you for the next one.
I have a draft itinerary and would like to confirm with anyone who knows these places if it is good or if I should make some adaptation.
I've split the trip into three parts, first 10 days driving around south Germany, Austria / Tyrol, etc. Then 4 days in Munich (Oktoberfest!), and then the final 4 days in Berlin. It will be more or less like this:
Day 1, arriving in Frankfurt, getting the car and driving to Heidelberg, base for days 1-4
Day 2, visiting Heidelberg (I think one whole day is enough?)
Day 3, visiting Baden Baden (maybe add another city here?)
Day 4, to Bad Dürkheim for the Wurstmarkt wine festival. I think this is not so known outside of Germany so I think it will be a great opportunity see real Germany. I think it is easy to come from Heidelberg by bus or train as I don't want to not be able to try some wines while in the festival.
Now it is the big question mark for Days 5 and 6... First option is moving base to Rothenburg ob der Tauber, maybe stopping-by some small town... Other option is going to Freiburg... I'm really not sure what is the best option for these two days, there seems to be a lot of possibilities. Freiburg I could visit the black forest but I'm not sure where exactly in the black forest I should go, I couldn't find a central city there, or there is no central city at all, you just drive by?? Need extreme help here. How can I maximize these two days.
Day 7, moving base do Salzburg OR Innsbruck (need help on which would be a better base!!!), trying to see some lakes, alps, alpine roads and scenary while on the way.
Day 8, visiting Salzburg or Innsbruck (depending on the base). Can I fit anything else?
Day 9, visiting Innsbruck or Salzburg (depending on the base)
Day 10, heading to Munich, maybe stopping-by somewhere to visit some nice old town (which?) Eagle Nest?
Day 11-14, Munich, enjoying Oktoberfest !!
Day 15-18, Berlin, enjoying the city and the Berlin Marathon festivities
While in the cities, I usually use Michelin guide to go to the most interesting spots. I think it is pretty reliable, let me know if you think these guides may not be appropriated for these towns. I used them last year for Italy (Tuscany) and it was great.
I'm feeling very lucky that while I'm in Germany there will be three big festivities (Wurskmarkt, Oktoberfest and the Marathon).
In the beginning I though 18 days would be enough, now I see that I can barely scratch the surface.
It is incredible the number of towns and places that seems to be worthy visiting in German. I didn't know it was like this until I started to better study the places.
Thanks very much for any help !!! Much appreciated.
I'm arriving in Frankfurt on the 13th of September and coming back on the 1st of October - 18 nights total.
This will be my first time to Germany and Austria. Berlin will be the capital of choice of this trip, Vienna, I'm sorry but I will let you for the next one.
I have a draft itinerary and would like to confirm with anyone who knows these places if it is good or if I should make some adaptation.
I've split the trip into three parts, first 10 days driving around south Germany, Austria / Tyrol, etc. Then 4 days in Munich (Oktoberfest!), and then the final 4 days in Berlin. It will be more or less like this:
Day 1, arriving in Frankfurt, getting the car and driving to Heidelberg, base for days 1-4
Day 2, visiting Heidelberg (I think one whole day is enough?)
Day 3, visiting Baden Baden (maybe add another city here?)
Day 4, to Bad Dürkheim for the Wurstmarkt wine festival. I think this is not so known outside of Germany so I think it will be a great opportunity see real Germany. I think it is easy to come from Heidelberg by bus or train as I don't want to not be able to try some wines while in the festival.
Now it is the big question mark for Days 5 and 6... First option is moving base to Rothenburg ob der Tauber, maybe stopping-by some small town... Other option is going to Freiburg... I'm really not sure what is the best option for these two days, there seems to be a lot of possibilities. Freiburg I could visit the black forest but I'm not sure where exactly in the black forest I should go, I couldn't find a central city there, or there is no central city at all, you just drive by?? Need extreme help here. How can I maximize these two days.
Day 7, moving base do Salzburg OR Innsbruck (need help on which would be a better base!!!), trying to see some lakes, alps, alpine roads and scenary while on the way.
Day 8, visiting Salzburg or Innsbruck (depending on the base). Can I fit anything else?
Day 9, visiting Innsbruck or Salzburg (depending on the base)
Day 10, heading to Munich, maybe stopping-by somewhere to visit some nice old town (which?) Eagle Nest?
Day 11-14, Munich, enjoying Oktoberfest !!
Day 15-18, Berlin, enjoying the city and the Berlin Marathon festivities
While in the cities, I usually use Michelin guide to go to the most interesting spots. I think it is pretty reliable, let me know if you think these guides may not be appropriated for these towns. I used them last year for Italy (Tuscany) and it was great.
I'm feeling very lucky that while I'm in Germany there will be three big festivities (Wurskmarkt, Oktoberfest and the Marathon).
In the beginning I though 18 days would be enough, now I see that I can barely scratch the surface.
It is incredible the number of towns and places that seems to be worthy visiting in German. I didn't know it was like this until I started to better study the places.
Thanks very much for any help !!! Much appreciated.
Jun 6th, 2013, 05:05 PM
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Hi Aflorio, the itinerary you proposed should whet your appetite to return to Germany. I hope you are flying open jaw.
Here are some comments on your trip based on past experiences.
Day 1- I hope you will spend part of this day also touring Heidelberg as one day is not enough for Heidelberg.
Day 3- Baden Baden is not high on very many bucket lists. You might try Gengenbach instead. It is a few Km south of Baden Baden. This makes a nice daytrip from Heidelberg.
Day 4- You can catch a local train or Sbahn from the Heidelberg Bahnhof to go to Bad Durkheim. You must make at least one change. If you go to the information desk at the Bahnhof to buy your ticket on Saturday it will be valid for Saturday and Sunday. The ticket is also valid for transportation within Heidelberg for these 2 days. You might look at this site for more information on the festival. http://www.duerkheimer-wurstmarkt.de/
Day 5 and 6- I would definitely drive to Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It will give you another flavor of Germany similar to but larger than Gengenbach. Or if you are a real beer person, drive on to Bamberg. Compared to Rothenburg ODT, the drive is another hour or so from Heidelberg, all on the autobahn.
Day 7-9- drive to Salzburg- day trip to the Strobl-Bad Ischl-Hallstatt area. The toboggans are fun. You can also do a day trip to Berchtesgaden very easily from Salzburg.
Day 10 – on your drive to Munich do the Berchtesgaden stopover or, if you want to see a really nice palace which I believe is modeled after Versailles , turn off A8 at Prein and catch the small boat to Herren Cheimsee. This would be a good alternate if the weather is bad.
When you get to Munich I suggest you turn in your car. You won’t need it in Munich and Berlin. The transportation system is very good in both of these cities. Use the money you save on the car rental and money you save on parking in these 2 cities on a train ticket from Munich to Berlin. The ticket is very inexpensive if bought in advance (92 days?). This will give you a chance to relax and recover from the Oktoberfest while in transit instead of driving. If you haven’t already made your reservations in Munich you will probably have sticker shock, but that is the subject of another thread.
Don’t drive and drink- very little tolerance by the local constables. Have a good trip and I’ll save you a beer at the ‘Fest…
Here are some comments on your trip based on past experiences.
Day 1- I hope you will spend part of this day also touring Heidelberg as one day is not enough for Heidelberg.
Day 3- Baden Baden is not high on very many bucket lists. You might try Gengenbach instead. It is a few Km south of Baden Baden. This makes a nice daytrip from Heidelberg.
Day 4- You can catch a local train or Sbahn from the Heidelberg Bahnhof to go to Bad Durkheim. You must make at least one change. If you go to the information desk at the Bahnhof to buy your ticket on Saturday it will be valid for Saturday and Sunday. The ticket is also valid for transportation within Heidelberg for these 2 days. You might look at this site for more information on the festival. http://www.duerkheimer-wurstmarkt.de/
Day 5 and 6- I would definitely drive to Rothenburg ob der Tauber. It will give you another flavor of Germany similar to but larger than Gengenbach. Or if you are a real beer person, drive on to Bamberg. Compared to Rothenburg ODT, the drive is another hour or so from Heidelberg, all on the autobahn.
Day 7-9- drive to Salzburg- day trip to the Strobl-Bad Ischl-Hallstatt area. The toboggans are fun. You can also do a day trip to Berchtesgaden very easily from Salzburg.
Day 10 – on your drive to Munich do the Berchtesgaden stopover or, if you want to see a really nice palace which I believe is modeled after Versailles , turn off A8 at Prein and catch the small boat to Herren Cheimsee. This would be a good alternate if the weather is bad.
When you get to Munich I suggest you turn in your car. You won’t need it in Munich and Berlin. The transportation system is very good in both of these cities. Use the money you save on the car rental and money you save on parking in these 2 cities on a train ticket from Munich to Berlin. The ticket is very inexpensive if bought in advance (92 days?). This will give you a chance to relax and recover from the Oktoberfest while in transit instead of driving. If you haven’t already made your reservations in Munich you will probably have sticker shock, but that is the subject of another thread.
Don’t drive and drink- very little tolerance by the local constables. Have a good trip and I’ll save you a beer at the ‘Fest…
Jun 7th, 2013, 06:42 AM
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Just saw some pitures of St. Wolfgang and it seems the kind of place that once visited will linger in memory for decades.
Travelforbeer thanks a lot, this is really massive very high quality information.
I'm flying from Rio, unfortunately I booked the flight some months ago to get it cheaper, and I didn't have the itinerary ready by then, so the return is from Frankfurt also. But only at 22:15 so from Berlin I can take whatever flight is cheaper that day. The risk is flight delay or cancellation with missed conection with no free reschedule... Train is more reliable but then it will take 4hrs. Maybe stopping-by in Leipzig? That is another story...
Yes, after some reading, Gegenbach seems more interesting then Baden Baden. Will definetely switch, thanks!
And yes, I'll be returning the car in Munich.
Innsbruck day trip from Salzburg is about 380km both ways. Probably Innsbruck will be spared for a next trip.
Alternatively I could spare Salzburg for the next trip and go to Innsbruck instead. I have to analyze the potential day-trips from both bases and decide... Maybe the green guide will help me on this.
Well, after about one entire week of heavy researching, finally it seems that the itinerary is becoming defined. Much, much more harder to define than last year in Italy.
Travelforbeer thanks a lot, this is really massive very high quality information.
I'm flying from Rio, unfortunately I booked the flight some months ago to get it cheaper, and I didn't have the itinerary ready by then, so the return is from Frankfurt also. But only at 22:15 so from Berlin I can take whatever flight is cheaper that day. The risk is flight delay or cancellation with missed conection with no free reschedule... Train is more reliable but then it will take 4hrs. Maybe stopping-by in Leipzig? That is another story...
Yes, after some reading, Gegenbach seems more interesting then Baden Baden. Will definetely switch, thanks!
And yes, I'll be returning the car in Munich.
Innsbruck day trip from Salzburg is about 380km both ways. Probably Innsbruck will be spared for a next trip.
Alternatively I could spare Salzburg for the next trip and go to Innsbruck instead. I have to analyze the potential day-trips from both bases and decide... Maybe the green guide will help me on this.
Well, after about one entire week of heavy researching, finally it seems that the itinerary is becoming defined. Much, much more harder to define than last year in Italy.
Jun 7th, 2013, 08:46 AM
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" ...so the return is from Frankfurt also. But only at 22:15 so from Berlin I can take whatever flight is cheaper that day. The risk is flight delay or cancellation with missed conection with no free reschedule... Train is more reliable but then it will take 4hrs."
It will probably take 4 hours or more for the plane also. You need to include time to get to the airport (it might not be Tegel, depending on the airline), the baggage checkin, security checkin, waiting to load on the plane, loading on the plane, waiting on the plane to takeoff, the actual flight, waiting on a gate to open at FRA (and some of the cheap flights use the Hahn airport instead of FRA), etc. And the train is more reliable. And it looks like the advance train fare is around 60 Euros- So really consider the train option.
Have a good trip and enjoy the festivals!!!
It will probably take 4 hours or more for the plane also. You need to include time to get to the airport (it might not be Tegel, depending on the airline), the baggage checkin, security checkin, waiting to load on the plane, loading on the plane, waiting on the plane to takeoff, the actual flight, waiting on a gate to open at FRA (and some of the cheap flights use the Hahn airport instead of FRA), etc. And the train is more reliable. And it looks like the advance train fare is around 60 Euros- So really consider the train option.
Have a good trip and enjoy the festivals!!!
Jun 7th, 2013, 09:45 AM
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I would definitely reconsider days 1-6. Why not do the Wurstmarkt on the weekend instead of a Monday?
Day 1: Heidelberg.
Day 2 (Sat.): Heidelberg
Day 3: (Sun.): Daytrip from Heidelberg to Bad D.
Day 4: Baden-Baden, but only if you want a spa treatment or a gambling experience. I don't see the value otherwise. Other places off the big-time tourist track and closer to Heidelberg you can visit:
Ladenburg (gorgeous old walled town just to the north.)
Neckar River: Beautiful drive, Burg Guttenberg Castle with free-flight falconry show, Bad Wimpfen (gorgeous half-timbered buildings)
Speyer and/or Worms - Romanesque cathedrals held in high regard, other sights.
Day 5&6 Black forest possibilities: Stay in Gengenbach? Visit Schiltach, Haslach, Gutach Vogtsbauernhof open-air museum. Villingen is nice too. The Black Forest Museum in Triberg is very good, but the rest of the town a bit kitschy. (Train travel is free in this area if you stay in any of these towns except Villingen, actually - maybe a good time to park the car.) Once you've seen all these fine old-world places, I doubt you'll feel the need to drive all the way up to tourist-heavy Rothenburg for much the same thing, but that's up to you.
Day 1: Heidelberg.
Day 2 (Sat.): Heidelberg
Day 3: (Sun.): Daytrip from Heidelberg to Bad D.
Day 4: Baden-Baden, but only if you want a spa treatment or a gambling experience. I don't see the value otherwise. Other places off the big-time tourist track and closer to Heidelberg you can visit:
Ladenburg (gorgeous old walled town just to the north.)
Neckar River: Beautiful drive, Burg Guttenberg Castle with free-flight falconry show, Bad Wimpfen (gorgeous half-timbered buildings)
Speyer and/or Worms - Romanesque cathedrals held in high regard, other sights.
Day 5&6 Black forest possibilities: Stay in Gengenbach? Visit Schiltach, Haslach, Gutach Vogtsbauernhof open-air museum. Villingen is nice too. The Black Forest Museum in Triberg is very good, but the rest of the town a bit kitschy. (Train travel is free in this area if you stay in any of these towns except Villingen, actually - maybe a good time to park the car.) Once you've seen all these fine old-world places, I doubt you'll feel the need to drive all the way up to tourist-heavy Rothenburg for much the same thing, but that's up to you.
Jun 7th, 2013, 09:49 AM
#8
Day 4, to Bad Dürkheim for the Wurstmarkt wine festival. I think this is not so known outside of Germany so I think it will be a great opportunity see real Germany. I think it is easy to come from Heidelberg by bus or train as I don't want to not be able to try some wines while in the festival.>>
we went once with german friends many years ago and I still remember some of it fondly [other bits are a bit hazy!] do pace yourself - though they serve the wine in what I remember being very large glasses, it seemed to disappear with surprising rapidity.
looks like a nice trip!
we went once with german friends many years ago and I still remember some of it fondly [other bits are a bit hazy!] do pace yourself - though they serve the wine in what I remember being very large glasses, it seemed to disappear with surprising rapidity.
looks like a nice trip!
Jun 8th, 2013, 10:16 AM
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Hi Travel4beer, yes, definitely train will be the transport of choice, and I am seriously considering waking-up really early and stopping by Weimar on the way to Frankfurt. I can leave my luggage in the station and do some sightseeing during the day. I'll have plenty of time to recover during the 13hrs flight back home.
Russ, you are right, I didn't notice the weekdays, will definitely go to Bad Dürkheim on the weekend, maybe even on Saturday, perhaps it will be more fun than on Sunday.
Staying in Gegenbach and visiting the Black Forest for two days is an option, I'll read about the places you recommended, thanks! Do you think Rothenburg will be really crowded mid-September?
Annhig, it seems the smallest glass is around half a litre - I will remember your advice, thanks!
Russ, you are right, I didn't notice the weekdays, will definitely go to Bad Dürkheim on the weekend, maybe even on Saturday, perhaps it will be more fun than on Sunday.
Staying in Gegenbach and visiting the Black Forest for two days is an option, I'll read about the places you recommended, thanks! Do you think Rothenburg will be really crowded mid-September?
Annhig, it seems the smallest glass is around half a litre - I will remember your advice, thanks!
Jun 9th, 2013, 04:17 AM
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Rothenburg is always filled with tourists. That being said, you should definitely go. It is a really beautiful little town. And I agree that Bamberg is a must-visit town for beer lovers, the old town is gorgeous.
If you are in Salzburg you might want to check out the salt mines. There is also an ice cave in a glacier that is pretty cool.
You can always drink weinschorles if you want to pace yourself. Half wine half sparkling water.
If you are in Salzburg you might want to check out the salt mines. There is also an ice cave in a glacier that is pretty cool.
You can always drink weinschorles if you want to pace yourself. Half wine half sparkling water.
Jun 9th, 2013, 04:59 AM
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aflorio,
So nice to see you're thinking about Weimar. A lot of these Thuringian towns in the middle of Germany get overlooked, but Eisenach (Wartburg), Erfurt, and Weimar have a lot to offer in terms of history and culture.
If you can manage the somewhat grueling schedule on the last day, Weimar makes a decent point for breaking up the Berlin - Frankfurt train, as you mention. Note that you'll probably be adding 1 hr to your total train ride, since the fastest route from Berlin to Frankfurt goes through Hannover. Getting to Weimar will likely take you to Leipzig to change trains. But Weimar is rather manageable for a few hours of meandering before you head out to the airport. Gutsy move with the evening transatlantic flight, but it could be a refreshing and memorable stop. Good luck!
So nice to see you're thinking about Weimar. A lot of these Thuringian towns in the middle of Germany get overlooked, but Eisenach (Wartburg), Erfurt, and Weimar have a lot to offer in terms of history and culture.
If you can manage the somewhat grueling schedule on the last day, Weimar makes a decent point for breaking up the Berlin - Frankfurt train, as you mention. Note that you'll probably be adding 1 hr to your total train ride, since the fastest route from Berlin to Frankfurt goes through Hannover. Getting to Weimar will likely take you to Leipzig to change trains. But Weimar is rather manageable for a few hours of meandering before you head out to the airport. Gutsy move with the evening transatlantic flight, but it could be a refreshing and memorable stop. Good luck!
Jun 10th, 2013, 06:52 PM
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The weinschorles looks tasty, will certainly try.
Also the Federweisser seems very typical and mandatory for a correct experimentation of the local drinking culture.
My plans for the Oktoberfest and the Wurstmarkt are waking-up early and going to the event also early so I don't have problems finding a seat... But if that fails (maybe because of some excesses the day before), then I think I will also have fun just walking around.
Weimar is recommended in a few websites and it is in almost mid-point between Frankfurt and Berlin (at least geographically), so yes I believe it is feasible to do the visit during the day.
And I'm probably going to Rothenburg. You know, some places we know it will be crowded, but you just have to go when it is your first time in some region. It happened to me last year in Italy, Florence and Venice... It was just too crowded, but I needed to check these cities.
Thanks guys for the tips. There is still some time for the trip, so let me get back to my German studies so I can learn how to correctly order my meals !!!
I hope to be able to write a full review when I'm back !!!
Also the Federweisser seems very typical and mandatory for a correct experimentation of the local drinking culture.
My plans for the Oktoberfest and the Wurstmarkt are waking-up early and going to the event also early so I don't have problems finding a seat... But if that fails (maybe because of some excesses the day before), then I think I will also have fun just walking around.
Weimar is recommended in a few websites and it is in almost mid-point between Frankfurt and Berlin (at least geographically), so yes I believe it is feasible to do the visit during the day.
And I'm probably going to Rothenburg. You know, some places we know it will be crowded, but you just have to go when it is your first time in some region. It happened to me last year in Italy, Florence and Venice... It was just too crowded, but I needed to check these cities.
Thanks guys for the tips. There is still some time for the trip, so let me get back to my German studies so I can learn how to correctly order my meals !!!
I hope to be able to write a full review when I'm back !!!
Jun 12th, 2013, 12:45 AM
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Federweisser is delicious (if it is available when you are there, everything is late this year!) but potentially dangerous. I don't know how to put it delicately--it can give you the trots, and fast. Consider it the best tasting potential laxative you will ever drink.
You have been warned. I would still go for it. I do every year!
You have been warned. I would still go for it. I do every year!
