Pegontheroad

I've been wanting to go to Smolensk, Russia, in order to visit the nearby Katyn forest, where one of the Katyn massacres of Polish officers, intelligentsia, priests, etc., took place in 1940. It's not been easy. Neither of the travel agencies I've been in contact with has been helpful.

I was concerned that Russian tour guides wouldn't be enthusiastic about showing me a place where Russian troops (under orders from Stalin and Beria) massacred 4400 Poles (out of a total of about 20,000 massacred at Katyn and several other sites.) Initially the Soviets blamed the Nazis, and the truth wasn't revealed until the Gorbachev era. Lately, apparently, Putin and his cohorts have been trying to weasel out of the blame.

I can't find any flights that go there, and the train journey from Warsaw takes 10 hours, with a two-hour layover. I finally decided I'll just have to take the train, even if it's not ideal.

I finally started exploring online to see if Smolensk tour companies offer tours to the Katyn site, and I found out that they do. That's great! I'd also like to have a tour of the city itself, since it has some beautiful architecture, and maybe something about the WWII Battle of Smolensk. .

Anyway, I'm encouraged to see that one tour company has excursions to the Katyn site as one of its regular tours.

michelhuebeli

Do you speak the language? You'll get ten times the reward out of your trip if you spend a year intensely studying, both the alphabet of course and enough grammar and vocabulary so that you can understand what people say to you.

Learning a few sentences from a phrasebook is easy but stupid if you don't understand what people say back at you.

I took two semesters at a community college and a few hundred private lessons with a young Russian (luckily that cost me nothing, it was in exchange for music lessons), and when I was in St. Petersburg on my own, it paid off. I had conversations with regular folks, learning more than any guide could have told me in any language.

Consider it - this could make all the difference when you end up going there.

thursdaysd

If you go by train from Warsaw you'll need a visa for Belarus (bahn.de shows direct trains). Don't know what they cost now, but last time I looked at them they were expensive. A transit visa is likely cheaper, though. Have you considered flying to Moscow and taking the train from there?

Definitely learn the alphabet, I'm lousy at languages and didn't find it that difficult, but I don't know that I'd wait to go until I spoke some of the language. I certainly managed in Russia without any Russian, but of course it does limit the people you can talk to.

See:
http://seat61.com/international-trai...rsaw_to_Moscow

Pegontheroad

I did briefly study Russian many years ago, but I'm not going to do that again for a stay of three or at most four days. I do think re-learning the Cyrillic alphabet is a good idea.

I speak German and Spanish but have found that many people in the tourist industry speak English.

I was surprised when I was in Gdansk, and I asked a young man sitting next to me at the bus station if he spoke English or German. He said no, but just for the heck of it, I asked "Habla Ud.Español?" and he said, "Un poco."

Christina

That's really difficult to get to, you are certainly dedicated to that mission to do that. Because it isn't just a 10 hr train ride, it's a total of about 15 hours, right, due to connections? That's what I saw.

I think it just misses working out and would probalby be more expensive, but the flight from Warsaw to Moscow is only 2 hrs (LOT or Aeroflot), and the train from Moscow to Smolensk is 4-5 hrs.

The problem is getting from the Moscow airport to the train station (which I understand takes about 30 minutes by lightrail or whatever or by taxi), and the schedules I've seen just make that tight. Flights seem to only arrive from Warsaw at 12:50 pm at the earliest, and the most reasonable train leaves around 3:15 pm. So there is only 2:15 hrs in-between, which seems too tight to me. It's because of the flight limitations, no flights earlier than that.

thursdaysd

On the other hand, if you're going to the trouble and expense of getting a visa for Russia, you might as well see more than Smolensk.

Pegontheroad

Back and forth. Back and forth. At first I thought of taking the train from Warsaw to Smolensk, even though it's a 10 hour trip with a two-hour layover in Minsk.

Then I found out I'd need a visa to go through Belarus, so I explored the idea of taking a plane to Moscow and the train back to Smolensk.

Finally I decided I'd call Red Star Travel in Seattle, who'd helped me get my visa to Russia in 2015. They were very helpful, in contrast to the Russian Consul Visa office in Seattle.

I called twice but at the wrong times, I guess, so I wasn't able to get any information. I just called again and talked to a guy who was very helpful. He nixed the idea of a plane/train combination. Said it would be a hassle to get from the Moscow airport to the train and that the train trip would be 5 hours anyway.

He thought taking the train for the whole trip would be the best solution. So that's what I think I'll do. He said to hold off on getting a visa for Belarus until later in the year, as there may be new options by then.

It's a relief to have a better idea of what I need to do.

Pegontheroad

Christina: You certainly have some research skills! I'm impressed.

Thursdaysd: I already have a visa for Russia. I did visit Russia in 1967 (Moscow, St.Petersburg and Kiev) and St.Petersburg in 2015. I wouldn't mind seeing Moscow again, but this trip is already getting out of control.

It started out that I wanted to visit some places in Poland that I hadn't seen in 2015 and 2016--Malbork castle, Westerplatte, etc.. The more I read on Fodors, the more places I added to my itinerary. I don't quite know how I came to add one of the sites of the Katyn massacres to my trip, but now I'm obsessed with visiting the one in the Katyn forest.

thursdaysd

According to Real Russia (linked from seat61.com) you can get the Moscow-Smolensk train down to 4 hours if you leave at 7:10. But I have no current info on the connection from the airport to the relevant train station, although you would need an overnight in Moscow in any case.

I'm sure you would find Moscow very much changed! Even in 2004 when I was there it was obviously changing and I know it's changed a lot more since then. The hotel I stayed in, overlooking the Kremlin, was pulled down soon after for instance, and GUM was already a posh mall.

michelhuebeli

OP is now running two threads about the same trip - the other one is at http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...o-smolensk.cfm

Christina

It's a lightrail line from the airport to the Belorussky train station, costs about US$7.
This is the website
https://aeroexpress.ru/en/


I just check any train time on www.bahn.de, they have all of Europe and it is convenient and shows you the interim stops and train station names. Most of the trains do NOT take 5 hrs, most take 4:15 to 4:38 hrs. There is one that takes 4:06 at 7:10 am, but you'd have to stay overnight to get that. The one at 1:30 pm takes 4:15, the one at 3 pm ish does take 4:38.

I use rome2rio.com to find other type of transportation, I don't consider it definitive but I am very impressed how it is generally accurate in terms of the names and bus numbers, etc., of alternatives. Then I google the option I find appealing on it to find details.

bahn.de and rome2rio.com are my go-tos for ground travel itineraries in Europe by public transportation

Christina

oh, as for your TA, it's your call as to whether a 15 hr train trip would be easier than taking a 30 minute lightrail trip from the airport to the train station. I just don't see why that would be a hassle. But I agree trains can seem easier than airports and having to transfer. If the timing on the flight arrival was earlier in the day, that's what I would do rather than take a train for 15 hrs, but either should work. It's the timing I question, not how difficult it is to take Aeroexpress.