clicksys

My 16 yr. old daughter (US citizen) will be traveling from US to France for a little over 3 months, staying with a host family in France, near the Swiss border, and attending high school in Switzerland. We're having great difficulty getting her a French visa.

She will fly into Switzerland, and I assume she'll get her passport stamped upon entry there. Our hosts say they are rarely checked at the border in their daily travels back and forth to Switzerland, so it may be that France will in fact never know that she is there. What will happen, when it is time for her to return to the US? Will she have trouble with customs at the Swiss departure airport? From her passport it will appear that she stayed more than the maximum of 90 days.

Another idea: after a few weeks, she could deliberately seek to get her passport stamped into France. This would set the Schengen clock going, would stop the Swiss clock and show Switzerland that she did not over stay in their country, and give her 90 days legally in France. OTOH, would it look odd to the French authorities? Am I overly concerned about this?

I'm looking for real world advice here - I know what the law says. We've had so much difficulty with the French consulate that I just don't think we can obtain a visa. As a side note, we were assured that if her stay is LESS than 90 days, no visa is required. So, if her stay needs to be more like 100 days, will we get in trouble for that? Thanks!

P_M

First of all, let's address the issue of stamping passports. I have flown into Switzerland twice in the last few years and they never stamped my passport at all. Both times I asked them to stamp it and they refused. Last year I flew to Paris with my dad and stepmom. The customs guy did not stamp my passport until I asked. Dad and stepmom did not ask, so they got no stamp. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this info is in a computer somewhere, and if that's the case, you could have a problem. Does anyone know if that is true?

It sounds like she's flying into Geneva, and I presume she'll be leaving from Geneva also. It is true that they rarely check passports at the border, and I've never seen anyone looking for entry stamps because as I stated above, stamps aren't used much anymore.

Have you spoken to anyone from the exchange program for assistance? Just for me personally, I would want to avoid any risk and go with the proper procedures. Good luck.

esm

I don't know what qualifies as "real world advice". You can't be sure that your daughter won't have problems just because someone else may have been able to get away without a visa.

As a parent, I'd advise against putting your daughter in this situation; especially a 16 year old.

Why are you having great difficulty getting a visa? Our son was in Paris for study abroad and applying for a visa was a smooth process with no delays.

kleeblatt

Have you spoken to the Swiss high school? They should know exactly what you need to do and help you with it. I assume this is part of an exchange program.

blackduff

Just a little note: The Shengen rights and allowances only apply to European citizens but even more it's only applied to citizens from those countries which are participating with Shengen. Brits do not have any allowances for this agreement.

Blackduff - Have been told by the UK immigration that they're not a participant with Shengen and I had to pull out my passport.

Art_Vandelay

Well I've got news for you: Switzerland is part of Schengen now! OK, it's quite recent - a referendum on June 5, 2005 - and you should check whether the implementation has started, but normally things go quite fast.
And speak about the difficulty of getting a visa: with the new passport cock up in France, it's 2 to 3 months to get a US visa if your passport was renewed after Oct 05.

Michael

Is the stay organized through an official organization? If so, it may be that the piece of paper that indicates that she applied for a visa is sufficient to make her legal. That's how things worked back in the good old days.

tod

There is no way a South African citizen can enter France without a Shengen Visa - and believe me everything has to be "just so" in order to get one!
Travel agents advised me to compose my own itinerary of where I was going and when, where I was staying - addresses provided ( Hotels had to be prepaid or an extra funding by cash or credit card - bank letter)had to be provided.
If the French Consulate suspects in anyway she may want continue staying in France and "bumming her way around" they will turn her down.
You will get the Visa with LOTS of Letters of assurance and insurance - CASH speaks volumes!(by that I mean we have the amount we carry written into our passport by the bank/Rennies etc.)
The host family should have provided you with a written letter of their and your daughters intentions, which in turn you submit to the consulate.
I am surprised to learn US citizens have to apply for a visa for France - or is that just minors?
Best of luck!

AnthonyGA

You need a visa for stays of longer than 90 days, or for non-tourist visits.

A lot of Americans overstay their limits in France illegally, so there is good reason to be suspicious of Americans visiting France, at least under certain circumstances (such as youth).

In any case, I should think that the Swiss school would know exactly how to proceed.

CotswoldScouser

Switzerland is NOT part of the Schengen Common Travel Area.

The provisional agreement is that it will, subject to other members' satisfying themselves on the quality of Switzerland's external border controls and the compatibility of its IT systems with the rest of Schengen, join around mid-2007.

So the OP's daughter will, unless she has a visa for her over 90-day stay in France, be an illegal alien crossing egvery day a border where - whatever her irresponsible hosts are saying - passport controls will remain in place for the next 18 months. And she will, almost certainly, be spotted.

Is there some clever-clever way of getting round the fact that the OP's 16 yo daughter will be an illegal alien?

Yup. Get a visa. The difficulty you're having now will be piece of cake compared to the difficulty she'll have being able to travel ANYWHERE if she gets deported at 16.

logos999

CotswoldScouser you're a 100% right! I don't understand, why people post this (sorry) "nonsense" about possibilities of avoiding a visa. No way, can you cross the border more than a few times without being detected as illegal alien, even if you sit in your hosts car, who cross it every day at the same place... Strange....

nytraveler

I don;t understand what all the fuss is about. Whatever program is sponsoring this stay should have all the proper forms and info so that getting a visa for your daughter is automatic. If they can;t deal with something that simple I would be most cautious about sending a 16 year old on this "program".

If there is no official program involved and you are just sending your daughter to stay with friends - then simply shorten the trip to less than 3 months so that she doesn;t require a visa - but is simply a tourist.

lincasanova

Visas are not "automatic, " even if you have all the paperwork for the consulate.
they take TIME. But i am confused as to why the french will not issue her a visa.. is it because her schooling is in switzerland? Which papers are you having trouble with? or is it a time factor?

you might ask them directly what can happento a citizen overstaying the 90 days by a few days.

i was told by immigration AIRPORT police, THEMSELVES, in Spain, as i deal with this problem with students and clients ALL the time, that "if the person is returning to their home country.. we pass them through. If not, we are UNABLE to let them into another schengen country ", (therefore, needing to go to police and solve the problem.)

driver24

I don't if this has been resolved yet but i am also doing a foreign exchange program to France for a year (i'm 16 also) with YFU and i am a US citizen. Yfu sent me all the forms to be filled out and all of that...I have had no problem at all getting a visa but i am also going to live in france and attend school IN France. I think your problem is that they want you to apply for a student visa for over 90 days in which case they want proof of a school you are attending. They may be weary of the fact that your daughter is going to go to school in switzerland but living in France? That would be odd to me i don't know about anyone else. I'm just curious what program is your daughter going with?

crefloors

Exactly. My neice has been abroad through two programs and the programs have taken care of all documentation. She had several study tours to other countries last year while in Denmark and her group took care of all travel documents, including Visa for Russia. So, I just can't figure out what kind of program the OP's daughter was affiliated with.

hopscotch

If clicksys's daughter is flying direct from the USA her passport will most certainly be stamped at the Swiss arrival airport. Even if she stayed in Switzerland her limit is 90 days. On departure she will show her passport again. She could be nabbed. I think it is unlikely, but I wouldn't place any wagers on that. Even if nabbed would they penalize her? Stamp Verboten in her passport?

I had a lot of experience at the Geneva/Ferney-Voltaire border about 8 years ago. I drove across back and forth every Wednesday. The French border guards were invisible. Therefore so was I to French officials. The Swiss guards were on their feet every time and searched the car several times, even though the car had diplomatic plates.

Remember, clicksys's daughter has 90 days. She can go back and forth as often as she wishes for 90 days. It is perfectly legal. The Swiss guards will probably get used to seeing the girl and most of the time will wave her through before she gets her passport out of her pocket. The only problem could come after 90 days. Do you shoot craps?

Another bit of personal experience. Last year we tried to get our daughter over to Italy to live with her aunt, a naturalized citizen there, for a year and attend school. The Schengen student visa requirements stipulated that she must be 18 for a student visa. Well, she was three months short of that so no visa. We sent her for 89 days. She attended school informally, learned more Italian, and made some great friends.

I have lived in France and in Holland for more than the 90 days and never had a problem. But I didn't cross a guarded border every day either.

Another piece to consider. As I left Amsterdam in January this year I asked for an exit stamp. The police refused and asked why I wanted it. I said because of the Schengen deal I could get into a bit of trouble if I came back later and didn't get my passport stamped for some reason. It could show that I had stayed over 90 days. The guard looked at me and said "You'll NEVER have to worry about that!" He stamped it anyway.

I can't give clicksys any advice, only offer these anecdotes. But if I was to do it over again with my daughter I would send her for the full year. If you keep your nose clean you don't blip the radar screen.

elina

"I wouldn't be at all surprised if this info is in a computer somewhere, "

It is. The passports are not usually stamped (not in years), they are flashed, and the info goes straight into Schengen database.