French in Paris..advice needed!

What kind of guidance are you looking for? You're going to a place where you don't speak the language, is that the issue? You have 5 months to learn some French, so do it.

No, you certainly didn't make a mistake adding Paris to your trip! It's a wonderful city.

My suggestion: learn basic phrases in French. The french are big on basic politeness. When walking into a shop, you always say "bonjour" and "au revoir" upon leaving. Learn "s'il vous plait" and "merci" and use them often. You won't become fluent in French before June, and you don't need to. But learning basic phrases plays a big role in how you are treated (and this really goes for most places in the world). Always ask "parlez-vous Anglais?" (Do you speak English?) before you start speaking in English. Most people do speak some English, those who don't will be more patient with trying to figure out what you need (you will use sign language a lot!) if you are polite.

And definitely invest the $6.95 it costs for a phrase book--very, very helpful, especially for menus.

Enjoy Paris!

If your family can learn a few words and phrases, it will make a good opening for when you address a local. Any guidebook should cover some useful terms..always apply a polite greeting and 'title', such as "Bonjour Madame" before you ask for anything. You can always ask "parlez-vous anglais, s'il vous plait?".. and say "s'il vous plait" and "merci" to people, just like you should at home.

Your French-speaking family member can help you with the pronunciation.

I should have been more specific. I know there is no way to become fluent in 3 months. Focusing on phrases to broker transactions, get pointed in the correct direction, read and order from a menu sounds like a good place to start. Fortunately, I do understand the the use of basic greetings, etc..and do at least know some of them (from when I was in France before).

Guidance on general etiquette (such as asking in French if someone speaks English first) etc, would be helpful. Can you point me in the direction of some helpful resources?

In all locations frequented by tourists in Paris, you will find people who speak English. They are almost never highly fluent, but they speak well enough for the types of interactions you'll be likely to have with them (standard questions, purchases, etc.).

In locations not frequented by tourists, such as hypermarkets or home-improvement stores, insurance brokers, etc., you may find people who speak only French. But since these are places rarely frequented by tourists, you're unlikely to find yourself in this type of situation.

You cannot learn any useful level of French by June or July without full-time, intensive study. The best you can do is learn a few polite phrases. Some locals consider the few phrases to be a courtesy, others may question why you bother with a few phrases when they are essentially useless for communication and seem a bit like a token, non-serious effort (whereas many of them must study for years to learn English).

If you go this latter route, I'd limit the French phrases to courtesy greetings and the like. Don't ask where the pharmacy is in French unless you can understand the response in French as well.

I strongly recommend the "Just Enough" series phrasebooks. I have used French, Spanish, Portugese, Italian, and Croatian with success.

They are cheap and require a bit of interpretation since they are written for British audience, but they cover most basic travel needs phonetically.

They have good sections on disasters (explaining what hurts to a doctor or pharmacist) and lots of possible responses to your questions, some of them negative: "Not my problem"

You did not make a mistake in adding Paris to your trip. I don't speak French but learned the basic phrases to interact in tourist situations and to be polite. I have found that all Parisians have been very helpful in speaking English when they realize I don't speak French but only after a polite greeting and a polite inquiry as to whether they speak English. If they didn't speak English we laughinly managed through "sign language". My experience has been that French perople are very friendly and helpful if you present yourself in a respectful manner. I think the rumor of the ugly Parisian comes from people who are loud and rude and don't practice basic politeness. They get what they give and the same thing would happen at home. Have fun in Paris, I am so envious.

Nelcarp
Though it is nice to be able to communicate with locals in the language of the country you are visiting, it is not "must". Here is a list of countries I have visited without speaking the national idiom:
- Germany
- Czech Republic
- Switzerland (German speaking regions)
- Thailand
- Egypt
- Greece
- Netherlands

I also will be visiting France in June & found a helpful language program that can be downloaded free. It is really quite good. Here's the site: http://www.byki.com/ Hope this helps.

Hi

I went to Paris last year with my wife and we don't speak much French...just a few basic phrases. We didn't have that much trouble due to this...yes, there were a couple of misunderstandings but nothing serious. So I'm sure you will have a wonderful trip

Here is my trip report with pictures, links and maps http://gardkarlsen.com/Paris_France.htm . Hope you can find some useful info there.

Regards
Gard
http://gardkarlsen.com - trip reports and pictures

Hi N,

You'll only be there for 3 days, and you will be visiting the tourists spots.

All you need is

Bonjour, Bon soir, au revoir, s'il vous plait, merci, oui, non

ou est......
le toilette
le metro
le autobus

Quelle est le prix?

It helps to have pencil and paper for the answer to the last one.

Enjoy your visit.

We have been to France before and got by with just a few phrases, and a good phrase book. This time though, I wanted a better grasp of it so found a short course at the local community college, called "French for Travelers". You might want to look into something like this.

Ditto MissZiegeld's response.

Don't forget to say "bonjour" when you enter a shop, and "au revoir" when you leave.

The French equivalent of "to take French leave" i.e. to leave without saying goodbye is "filer à l'anglais" "to leave like an Englishman", and is the height of bad manners.

While it would be nice to be fluent in another language, I am not, and had no problems visiting Paris for a week as a tourist.

A phrase book with restaurant translations is helpful. And also should outline general greetings and such, in order to be polite, like you're looking for.

Also works well if you are organized and have a map, to get where you want to go, so you don't need to be trying to ask assistance from strangers on the streets.

I agree with posters above that you at least learn the key phrases Bonjour, Au Revoir, S'il vous plait, and Merci.

It's especially important that you greet someone with Bonjour, before asking them something. I was rudely lectured by a train station guard when I approached him and asked "les toilettes?" without first saying Bonjour. He immediately turned his back on me to help other people. When we turned back to me, he very sternly (and loudly) made it clear I should have greeted him properly.

Yes, I knew better-- but I'd just gotten off a one-hour train ride that was so packed I couldn't get to the bathroom. I had been counting on using it. So, I was in desperate need of directions to the restroom. He actually gave me the wrong directions, too!

PS,

Je suis désolé, "I am sorry" is also helpful.

It would be sad to skip Paris because you can't speak French. I didn't travel to Paris for that reason for many years.
DUMB!!
When my daughter (who is fluent in French) lived there for awhile I finally went.
I have wandered by myself all over Paris not speaking French and I 've never had a problem.
Many have recommended knowing a few phrases. That is good advice and will serve you well.
Paris is the prettiest city in the world - you can't miss out.

My partner, who speaks no French, caused a lot of smiles and helpful responses when he said: "Je suis desole (I am sorry). Je ne parle pas Francais (I don't speak French)." It even rhymes and they love it. Sorry, I don't know how to put the accent marks on desole, but you pronounce it: des-soul-lay.

It doesn't really matter if you don't speak French, just don't be rude about it. I lived in Paris for a while and I saw many people (usually British and American) just approaching people and speaking English without asking first if they spoke English. I mean, common sense tells you not to do that - imagine if you were working in your hometown and someone came up to you and started speaking French. You wouldn't be too pleased. Just put yourself in their position - greet them properly, ask if they speak English in French and don't forget to thank them. They may still be rude - no big deal, don't let it ruin your day. They deal with thousands of tourists every day, it gets irritating so don't take it personally. Just do your best to be polite and nobody can fault you!

>You wouldn't be too pleased.
Well I would be rather pleased and try to start a longer conversation and I believe most people here would do the same. In no way would I find it rude. On the contrary, people would try to find out how they could help. Rude would be standing on the left side of the stairs in the train station or sitting on them, forcing people to walk around you like many tourists do. Language isn't an issue.

FWIW, désolé and français don't rhyme.

Désolé and français can rhyme if you don't speak French.

the common language of the EU is english. most parisians are cosmopolitan enough to speak at least some english. there are some who refuse to speak english or who can't speak it (you wonder how they can get by outside of france - perhaps they don't or they just go on group tours). for the most part, you won't find very many people like this in paris.

that said, learning some french will make your trip much more fun and easier.

>the common language of the EU is english
Definitively not!

<<désolé and français don't rhyme.>>

hmmm... interesting

">the common language of the EU is english
Definitively not! "

However, I've read more than twice that "more people in the EU speak English than any other single language." Is this NOT true?

I do beleive that more Germans can speak English than they can French or Italian, and more Italians can speak English than German, etc. Add in all the people in the UK and Ireland who speak English only, and I'd think the above statement is probably true.

Come to the continent and see for yourself.

logos, I've spent over a year total on the continent in the past 10 years. And yes, I think that's true. Rarely do I run into anyone in France, Italy, or Spain who doesn't speak at least a little English. Germany is the country where I find the fewest English speakers. Of course, my experiences are more with professionals and those in tourist related industry, but even in smaller towns and off the beaten path, I often find a lot of people who speak some English -- certainly a lot more than I'd find in similar places in the US who speak anything other than English.

>more with professionals and those in tourist related industry,
That's the point. You need at least a little knowledge in French, German, Spanish, Italian and Russian to get around (almost) everywhere. English is only a common language as it's used in advertisement where they make up funny new words that sound "cool". However most people have no idea what they might mean. They speak their local language. You havn't got the slightest chance on a decent job without the local language, however.
I remenber translating to a Portugese girl from an Italian. The Italian only spoke her own language, while the Portugese was able to understand my French. Well, we managed to communicate. Sometimes English works, in most cases, it doesn't and you need a third person.

I agree with the strategy of getting a good phrase book and learning as much as possible in advance with tapes, etc. I can still get by reasonably well with my high school French and in german and sometimes those languages help in other European countries.

Our family spent a week in Rome in early march, and I was glad to have an Italian phrase book for the basics and ordering in restaurants and stores. Our 16 year old son made a point of learning Italian phrases, too. He was rewarded by having several people complement him on his efforts.

Let me restate my point. I don't speak more than a smattering of phrases in any language (hello, thank you, etc.). In my 12 + months of European travel in the past 10 years (not counting the UK) I could list on one hand the number of times I've had any serious problem "communicating".

When we stayed in a small hotel in Germany and the owners didn't speak A WORD of English, we managed to select our room, order our breakfast, pay our bill, and wish each other well with no difficulty.

When we traveled by car in the very south east of Italy well "off the beaten track", we never had an issue with being able to have a great time and "communicating", even when we encountered people who don't speak English. Pointing to a map and looking inquisitively to a person can get you a response as to which way you need to go. Smile, say "Grazie" and you're on your way.

I'm an expert at charades and there are many ways to communicate without having a full fledged verbal conversation.

So I would disagree that "Sometimes English works, in most cases, it doesn't and you need a third person."

That has NOT been my experience.

Don't get me wrong. Speaking a language would get you further and could add greatly to your appreciation of a place, but it is NOT necessary. And frankly, I don't believe I could learn enough of a language in a couple months to fully comprehend either what I'm saying or more importantly what I'm hearing.

>>>>>
You havn't got the slightest chance on a decent job without the local language, however
>>>>>

to get a good job in europe, you need to speak english (in addition to the local language-but increasingly even this is less of an absolute requirement). having worked for many years all over europe, i have sadly seen many people who have had their careers shut down because they would not or could not learn english...mostly middle aged people.

almost all real business in europe crosses national boundaries within the EU and commonly outside of it. this business will almost always be conducted in english. just look at logos' hometown...to get a good, real job with siemens, bmw, munich re, hvb, allianz, etc, you need to speak english. these are multi-nationals that have little use for insular local types that can't work at a global level. if you want to get an mba in munich you also need to speak english.

to say that english is only used in munich for novelty 'cool words' (that nobody can understand) is so far from reality, it's disturbing. it's also very insulting and fails to recognise that munich is not an insular city.

only jim thompson of germany steadfastly refuses to see any of this. most real germans are happy to get on with participating in the global economy...and this means speaking english.

You're correct, there isn't any foreign language needed to "communicate" anywhere. I loved China where travelling without them understanding me, or me understanding them was easy! All the basic things very easy to get across. However the flaw in the argumentation that many people understand or speak English in Europe ist that when people are approached in English, they'll try to answer in that language, even if they only know very litte. If they tried i.e. French in Italy they would be amazed that it generally works better than English.

Well, walkingaround, we are on different levels. I'm not coming down to yours

<<Speaking a language would get you further and could add greatly to your appreciation of a place, but it is NOT necessary.>>
Certainly that sums it up nicely and addresses the OP's quandry.

A common 'mistake' I see people makingn is to freak out when they are somewhere they don't speak the language.

Instead just stay calm and observe how things are being done around you. How people line up, how the person in front of you does it at the grocery store (in Switzerland you bag your own, for example).

My friend who has lived in Europe for quite some time reminds me, they are a shop (restaurant, whatever) and want to sell you, what you want to buy... you'll figure it out together.

With just a review of the basic French phrases and words in my guidebook, a foggy remembrance of conversational pleasantries from elementary school, the occasional glance at a list of foods to make sure the entree wasn't pork, and many humble looks and "sil vous plait's" and "merci's" - we functioned very well for a week in Paris. Most everyone we met spoke English (when recognizing that our French was limited to Bonjour, Bonsoir, L'eau, deux, Merci, etc.) because we were in tourist areas, and they did so happily. We were always humble and appreciative, and there were no worries.

You'll be fine!

"My experience has been that French people are very friendly and helpful if you present yourself in a respectful manner".
Ditto.
Mind you, on a resent visit Liguria we found that very few Italians spoke English. My minimal knowlege of Italian was very helpful ( especially for asking directions and communicating with taxi drivers)

"My experience has been that French people are very friendly and helpful if you present yourself in a respectful manner".
Ditto.
Mind you, on a resent visit Liguria we found that very few Italians spoke English ( this was in small towns). My minimal knowledge of Italian was very helpful ( especially for asking directions and communicating with taxi drivers).

This bit about the Parisenes being reserved and polite is a load of crock. I was traveling through De Gaulle airport en route to Budapest (I wasn't even stepping into Paris). I misplaced my wallet, passport etc. I tried to speak to the cops in the airport who wouldn't speak to me cause I wouldn't speak French! This in the international transit terminal!! After having the American Counsul eventually help me out, I found out that a British Airways steward had found my stuff and placed it in the lost+found. The cops were told of this, but they refused to tell me cause I didn't speak their sodding language. Personally, I think they are miffed cause the Brits beat them in being better pillagers of the world. Most Paris natives speak English, but the only English word they volunteer to speak is 'HELP'. That's after they say 'surrender'.

If you are lost, or need help, and if you are polite, people you approach are generally very helpful and friendly. I do NOT know if this applies to officials, though. But in all cases, you have to be polite IN THE FRENCH WAY, and here's how you do it:
First you say: "Excusez-moi monsieur or madame "(as the case may be.)
"BONJOUR."
"Desole(e), mais..." (pronounced "DAY-zo-LAY, may...." )It means, Sorry, but...
"Je ne parle pas francais " or "Parlez-vous anglais?"
At this point, you can usually name a place or a street, point to a map, or ask for the nearest subway stop" Ou est le metro?(pronounced: "OOH EH")le metro?"
BUT NEVER forget the S'IL VOUS PLAIT and the MERCI or MERCI BEAUCOUP.
Jess

You don't have to be polite in any special way. As long as you try to be nice and you are sincere, that will work … and that's anywhere, not just in Paris.

French cops will speak to you in English if they can, and if you aren't too boorish. Many of them don't speak English, though. How many French-speaking police officers are there at Heathrow?

If you say Hello, or Good Morning, etc., in English that's OK but YOu HAVE to GREET the person. Or they WILL think you are rude. I once addressed a train info. guy, - w/o a Bonjour, as I was in distress and late and knew it was his JOB to tell me which track to go to. And he said, smiling: You forgot to say Bonjour. In fact, if you see someone for the second time in a day, they will eaven ray RE-Bonjour! I am not making this up!
Jess

I was in the International terminal INSIDE the airport. I didn't need to spew out any french pleasantaries. It is particularly stupid to suggest that I wasn't polite. In a civilized country, such officials would have had their hide handed to them for not doing their job. It wasn't just the cops, it was most of the airport officials. However, there was one airport worker who noticed my plight and spoke to me in fluent English and apologized for 'his countrymen'. He let me use his cell phone to call the US consulate and I am embarassed to say that in my distress I didn't remember to ask him his name. The only class act in what seems to be a nation of over-perfumed, post-colonial, pillaging, intellectually phoney louts. Almost all the other passengers in the terminal also noticed that the officials weren't being helpful. I only found out that my stuff was in the lost+found much later, although I had filled in an official inquiry. The whole ordeal cost me over $650 and excerbated my stress-related health condition. It could have been all sorted out if the airport officials had told me that my stuff had been found. The folks at the lost+found were themselves shocked that I hadn't been informed. They claimed that they had informed all the concerned authorities including the cops. Having traveled the world, and often to some of the most economically disadvantaged parts, I have been the object of extreme kindness and generosity. The frogs, however, will always be the object of my scorn and disdain.

traveler1234 - Let it be noted that your first post on this forum is to complain and insult and generalize about another country based on your one experience in an airport. Enuff said.

I would not even spend one nano-second seriously considering any post that uses the term "the frogs". That kind of attitude deserves what it gets.

In case you still want to learn a little french. I bought learn french in your car cd and it is great. My kids are learning too.

traveller1234 wrote "I was in the International terminal INSIDE the airport. I didn't need to spew out any french pleasantaries. It is particularly stupid to suggest that I wasn't polite."

Those three sentences persuade me that you were not polite.

I'm guessing that stress-related health condition of yours is a severe anger management issue...

An average of 156,000 passengers go through CDG daily and he thinks that the police actually give a foie gras where his wallet is.

Your foie gras up up your ***. Trust a snivelling frog to 1. conclude that I wasn't polite 2. suggest that the cops shouldn't give a hoot about my wallet. Curiously, the only well-mannered french at the airport were the under-class immigrants. It's little wonder that the frogs are the object of derision the world over. Horror stories of Paris visits abound but I'd imagine that's a different website? I'm told Paris is a beautiful city. I'd think that if the city was flushed of its current inhabitants and replaced by a more genteel people, it might actually be worth visiting. Maybe we could send them to Tripoli or Bagdhad, their favorite trading partners of yesteryear.
I don't recall the frogs being particularly polite when they plundered lands in Africa and Asia. Or when they blow up Atolls in the south Pacific.
Have you ever seen a polite french tourist here? Anywhere? Considering that a good bit of Paris lives on tourist cash, you'd think they'd be a little more grateful. And it's time they started learning German, for the next time around we won't be there to save their sorry backsides.

http://www.allthingsbeautiful.com/all_things_beautiful/images/straightjacket.jpg

Oh for the "report an inappropropriate post" like on Trip Advisor!!!!

St Cirq - I think we could add to your list:

periods of irritability or anger

constant anxiety

irrational behaviour

lack of concentration

If you were of being smart enough to read my first posting, you'd notice that it was a general recount of a ghastly experience. The response I received from you lot however was as ridiculous as the incident itself. First, I was accused of being impolite. Then of being insignificant. For the record, the cops were sitting in their office with an open girly magazine watching TV. The first response I received after I said, "excuse me sir" (I'm from the deep south, we address everyone as sir/ma'am or honey) was 'parlez vous francais' followed by a string of guttral gibberish. I know what that means now, but then I was in a state of panic and kept repeating 'I'm sorry?'. I was then tossed a clip-board with a form where I listed what I had lost. All this while the cops sniggered and laughed. I can distinctly remember being called 'XXXX American'; not a bad term in itself, but I can't remember the context of that. This went on for a while, in full view and earshot of a couple of airport workers, one of whom came up to me and apologized for his countrymen. You know the rest. It's unlikely that this guy would have been apologetic and helpful if "I" was being the badly-behaved one. The response I receive from you lot is in perfect line with the generalizations that I made in the airport with the incompetence and boorishness of the officials.
Hence my later postings and my reference to the 'frogs'. Contrast that to how non-English speaking people are treated by the authorities here. One only has to stand in line at the Customs and Immigration line in the US and overhear the "welcome to the US sir/ma'am" in any American airport.

http://houseofwax666.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/straightjacket.jpg

I think the police at the airport are concerned with things like bombs, narcotics, weapons, kidnapping, criminals crossing borders, and what have you.

I don't think the lost-and-found department falls under their jurisdiction.

Did you expect them to use their sniffer dogs to find your wallet?

For free?

"One only has to stand in line at the Customs and Immigration line in the US and overhear the "welcome to the US sir/ma'am" in any American airport"

Would that be in English, or in the non-English speaker's language?

"I'm from the deep south"
That would have been my first guess

<<Hence my later postings and my reference to the 'frogs'.>>
Also from your first post:
their sodding language.

Brits beat them in being better pillagers of the world.

the only English word they volunteer to speak is 'HELP'. That's after they say 'surrender'.

Now imagine if a stranger went up to a cop in "the deep south" and starting speaking French.....

robjame wrote: "Now imagine if a stranger went up to a cop in "the deep south" and starting speaking French....."

Do you consider Louisana to be in the deep south?

French to a cop in the deep south, hmm, that would get an interesting response. French in an international airport, now that would get some concerned attention. All international airports here have translators to handle emergencies.
Perhaps you should read my first post. I didn't ask the cops to sniff out my wallet. The Lost+found dept called them up to tell them that they had found it, but they didn't tell me even thought I was sitting in the room with them. Even the folks at the L+f folks were shocked to hear that. I later found out from other airport folks that they were pissed that I didn't speak french. I suppose you frogs learn Swahili, should you happen to have a 3-hour lay-over in Nairobi.
Therein, lies the angst of the frogs, the english-speaking peoples beat 'em at it all! The frogs even make second-rate pillagers!!!
At the airport here in the US the 'welcome to the US' is in english. Most, barring the frogs, don't have a problem with that. In Paris, it's a grunt, if you're lucky.

Well, traveller1234, I am sorry but from the way you've posted here, the impression I get is this:

1. You lost your wallet.

2. You freaked out. Understandable, yes. However I suspect that:

3. You freaked out on every airport official you saw. You freaked out loudly.

4. You got a response in a language you don't understand, and that made you freak out even more.

5. You seriously annoyed them with all your freaking out, to the degree that when the call came that your wallet was found, they didn't care. Eating lunch, going to the bathroom, taking another call, or whatever was going on was more important to them than reassuring the exploding ball of fury that his wallet was okay. They did not want to engage you.

Culture clash- as service providers, you expected them to jump to attention when you needed it, and that your freaking out should have driven the point home to them instead of making them care less.

I'm sorry you went through the stress and apparent expense of losing your wallet, but I do hope you didn't start screaming about frogs and the second world war at the airport. It's a little koo-koo, even on an internet forum.

Perhaps contrary to what some say, the French are extremely polite, courteous and helpful - Just like I'll assume you and your family members would be if you ran into a Parisan in your home town, who spoke little or no English. The essentials are to learn the basics before you go; hello, good-bye, please and thank you really TRULY go a long way. I just returned last night from a week in Paris; not only do I think you did not make a mistake in adding this trip to your itinerary, but I'm sorry that you will not have more time there! It is truly a city in it's own class and it's people, incredibly culteraly diverse I might add, were incredibly gracious and helpful to us, they went out of their way for us more often than not!!! Have a great time!! And buy a guide book, Fodors has words and phrases that you will use most.

Thanks. That's more like it. It isn't that people around the world should speak the same language. It was the hokey being peddled here that Parisenes are a polite, classy bunch relative to..??? The impression I have (and many others too) is that Parisenes are boorish and dishonest. Dishonest because they speak English but refuse to when a desperate tourist (or passerby like me) needs help. There are other places in the world where I've gotten by without following a word of what they spoke, but they were respectful, understanding and helpful, and I came away with the warmest regard for them and their culture. It isn't that one expects the French to speak another language, it is that the Parisenes can and do speak english quite fluently (as I found out later after my wallet, passport, and tickets were found), but will not unless 'they' are in need. Given that there is a substantial economic contribution by non-french speaking tourists to their foie gras, one would expect a modicum of decency in return on their part.
I have never visited france and have been invited as a speaker to conferences twice since this incident 2 years ago, the last was 2 weeks ago at in Strasbourg, but I have always declined. I don't intend ever visiting france. I have aquaintances who are french who seem an OK lot; none seem to be from Paris and even they dismiss the Parisenes as being rude.

"I have always declined. I don't intend ever visiting france."

Good decision. Stick with it!

traveler1234, thanks for the laughs.

"The impression I have (and many others too) is that Parisenes are boorish and dishonest."

how funny, that although you've never been there you KNOW your impression is right. Meanwhile I've been there many, many times and have yet to ever have anyone pretend not to speak English and help me. And I can only recall running into one truly rude or boorish Parisian in all my stays there -- a much lower percentage than almost any other travel destination I've been to.

My impression (having been there) is totally different from yours (never having been there), but no doubt yours is right and mine is wrong.

ROTFLMAO. Robjame is right however. I think it is wise for you to stay away especially since your mind is made up.

This discussion needs a bit of civility. Where is somedayparis when we need her???

And NeoPatrick thanks for your deep insight into my misadventure. After all you've visited Paris 'many' times. There are scores of others who've had encounters with the boorishness that parisenes have to offer. If you've even read a bit of what I've said, I didn't have to travel to the city - iI felt the parisene loutishness pervade thro the transit lounge of the airport. My experience only confirmed the well known caricature of the parisien frenchman. His fabled disdain for the 'Ugly-American' (his words, not mine). It's not you, it's your government, he explains in inspector clouseau fashion. Oddly, the US consul herself told me that the parisenes were notorius for being rude to Americans, particularly those who didn't speak the language. Obviously, you've been there 'many' times, you MUST know better.
You like it so much there... stay there... good riddance.

Re: Ugly American...from what you've posted here, I'd say you fit that description bang on.

traveler - reread your posts. You start each one sanely then whip yourself into such a lather that what you say is both laughable and pathetic
I'd pay to go and hear you speak - I'll bet you could pick a fight with yourself in a phonebooth
Apres_Londee had you pegged

Ribbit

Actually Apres_Londee only has it half right. I did freak out when I lost my papers. I didn't freakout with the cops - I was huddled in the corner in fear and doubled over in pain. Contrary to what you say, the US consul told me later that she thought that if I had been a little firmer with the cops instead of appearing fearful and anxious, I may have gotten more help. Standing up to a bully, I suppose.
As regards the 'ugly American' bit, I was quoting from a conversation overheard between a frenchman and another person.
My first posting was in response to a series of postings, long before my first, that suggested that parisenes were all these charming classy types bending over backwards and barely coping with the problems with all those tiresome tourists and visitors. Paris has a reputation of being a site to see. I don't plan on finding out. Parisenes have a repution of being obnoxious (which explains the flurry of e-mails throughout in rabid earnest to dispel) which I experienced the hard way. In no other city-related site here is there a discussion on the behavior of the city's inhabitants. Check out London, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Madrid, Lisbon, Prague, NYC, Chicago, Singapore, Mumbai...etc.
Ugly parisene instead?

What in h*ll is a Parisene?

If you're going to spend half a day berating an entire city, at least get the spelling right.

nice... very nice... the only responses i have received have been abusive. no explanations. not even surprise. some denial.
a parisene is the loutish inhabitant of the city of paris. also referred to as a parisienne... i ignore the 'i' and the 'e' for brevity. and some levity. and now that it rankles, for derision.
it's particularly amusing how the same people find it an extension of their feigned sophistication to deride an entire country (who's handouts they most shamefully lap up), find it so prickly when made the object of the same derision.

and while we're on the subject of correcting one another's use of the english language, one cannot 'berate' a city. one can deride it, be disparaging perhaps. but to berate is to 'scold'...
back to language school, dear.

traveler1234~~ One huge problem with all your generalizations & name calling is you have never even BEEN TO PARIS and plan never to go to France.

What I want to know is, how the heck do you know so d*mn much about what the people are like in a place you have never been?

suze..but i have! i was in the airport. then was taken to the US consulate to get a new passport. and back again to find my old one in the airport.
the response has been oddly expected, given my brief experience with the people there. if i was made aware of a visitor being treated poorly in my city, i'd be mortified. whenever someone has a poor experience in another world city, the natives have almost always been as embarassed and apologetic.
with the parisenes, it's very expectedly the opposite. one of the rare instances where the lore matched the experience.

"a parisene is the loutish inhabitant of the city of paris. also referred to as a parisienne"
I'm glad it's only the women that you don't like

StCirq - add to that list of yours


Inability to concentrate.
Confusion.
Seeing only the negative.
Repetitive or racing thoughts.
Poor judgment.
Loss of objectivity.
Desire to escape or run away

OK my mistake. You were ranting so much I lost track of the story. I still think calling the French people "frogs" is absolutely inexcusable.

OK, smartypants:

It's parisien - masculine singular
parisienne - feminine singular

Add an "s" to either and it becomes plural.

None of those takes a capital P.

And I'll warn you right up front - don't take up language issues with me unless you're really well equipped.

Berate means to rebuke or chide vehemently and at length, which is precisely what you did to Paris and Parisians (that's the English spelling of parisiens). Scold is one synonym only - get yourself a Webster's International or an American Heritage Dictionary with the grammar and usage notes.

As an aside, I would never have found myself in your predicament because I speak French.

I agree it's best if you just stay off French soil.

traveler1234, you must have to restrict your travel greatly. Everyone knows that "all New Yorkers are loud and rude" so you certainly can't go there. And "all Californians are shallow" so that leaves that out. We know the "Germans are loud and cold" and for that matter "so are the English". The Spanish and the Irish are hot blooded, so better not go there. So tell me, where on earth can you travel to where nobody has preconceived ideas of how rude the natives are?

As to your comments? Well, it's always said that rude finds only rude -- so we know you wouldn't like anywhere. And anyone with an IQ above 15 has already figured YOU out, my dear.

And as to your statement that others feel the same as you do -- well, perhaps they have traveled almost extensively in France as you have -- not at all -- so that doesn't even merit a comment.

I am biting my tongue to refrain from making sweeping generalizations about people who live in the "deep south".

really, suze? Why? It seems so appropriate when people are making such sweeping generalizations about countries they've never even travled to.

By the way, has anyone else noted that traveler1234 has never posted here before, but registered on Fodors just to post these idiotic observations? Makes you wonder who it REALLY is.

And once more a simple question has degenerated into a slanging match on whether or not the Americans are liked. Yawn.

Back on track:

<<désolé and français don't rhyme.>>

Indeed they don't, but to Anglo-Saxon ears they are so close that they may as well.

Similarly for "aller" and "allais"

Patrick, ah I was worried I might unintentionally offend other good posters who happen to live in that region.

I don't mind how this threads gone off-topic. I think it's hysterical (literally). Will be interesting to see if Traveler1234 continues to join us on other topics.

Hopefully the OP is not being influenced in a negative way -lol!

Hey, maybe I should let this one die down, but I can't help myself. I don't believe Traveler1234 is an American. I don't know of any American who uses the terms "sodding" and "ghastly" in a normal conversation; seems to be usually used by the English. Just sayin'.

If he's a Brit faking being American, he's pretty consistant in his spelling.

This is the bit I don't get:

I didn't freakout with the cops - I was huddled in the corner in fear and doubled over in pain

I agree, that the language and writing style is not typically American.

Traveler1234,

Please, please don't do any more traveling outside the US. You give us all a black eye because you are truly the Ugly American.

I have been stranded in Moscow (I speak hello/goodbye Russian) and managed to get myself the 40 kilometers from the airport to the hotel with a lot of help from some very nice Muscovites. Not everyone responded to my smile and sign language but I was persistent and eventually found someone to help me. I don't think anyone would have helped me if I'd been rude and obnoxious!

Put yourself in their shoes. How much help do you think you'd give them if they came here and spoke no English and were obviously yelling at you for something you had nothing to do with?

Also, I find it offensive when you call people names based on their ethnic origin. We've had way too much of it in this country and it's time it stopped. There's a name for that -- it's called bigotry.

I definitely think you should see America first.

>> then was taken to the US consulate to get a new passport. and back again to find my old one in the airport. <<

How on Earth have you been authorized to enter French territory without your passport ?

Desole and francais don't rhyme? I guess that's an indication of how people can tell I'm not French. Gotta start working on that accent. Although I have been told by several French people that they like my charming American accent. Sounds like an oxymoron to me. Those same people were busy practicing their English to get rid of what they considered their unpleasant French accent, so go figure.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I just have to say that my best experiences with French people have not been at CDG airport.

"and have been invited as a speaker to conferences twice since this incident 2 years ago,"

You can't say the French don't have a sense of humor.

I'm curious how T1234 knew he was being called an Ugly American, since he doesn't speak French and they "refused" to speak English.

And I don't believe for a second that you spoke to the US Consul. But why am I nit-picking? I don't believe any of this rant.

It appears Traveler1234 has left the building.

And after all our good advice

My wife and I spent seven wonderful days in Paris and the only French either of us knew was:
Bon jour - good morning
Merci - thank you
Au revoir - good bye
Bonsoir - good evening

As MissZiegfeld said "My suggestion: learn basic phrases in French. The french are big on basic politeness. When walking into a shop, you always say "bonjour" and "au revoir" upon leaving. Learn "s'il vous plait" and "merci" and use them often. You won't become fluent in French before June, and you don't need to. But learning basic phrases plays a big role in how you are treated (and this really goes for most places in the world). Always ask "parlez-vous Anglais?" (Do you speak English?) before you start speaking in English."

A side note - getting around Paris is extremely easy if you use the Metro. You can buy a three-day pass which will save $.