PalenQ

Much has been said here about airbnb's operations in Paris - now it seems that all is smooth and the French government gives it support to airbnb - well you can read this article from New from France, published by teh French government - airbnb has agreed to conform to local laws on rentals so you can be sure now that a Paris or French airbnb will be in accordance with French laws:

The story from News from France:

Airbnb.com, launched in August 2008, is an online marketplace
where those looking for a place to stay in different
cities can rent space from people who choose to lease
rooms, apartments and houses independently through
the website. The start-up company has seen enormous
growth since its inception—currently Airbnb is available
in over 33,000 cities in 192 countries, and is continuing to
expand. As a greater number of individuals begin to participate
in the so-called “sharing economy”—wherein individuals
offer their services to others without third-party
intervention—the Airbnb marketplace has proved attractive
to travelers seeking cost-effective lodging from hosts
that may offer insight to tourists in a new city.

One of the most successful cities for Airbnb users is also the number
one tourist destination in the world: Paris.
On February 26, American Airbnb co-founder and CEO
Brian Chesky named Paris the global capital for rentals
between individuals at a conference with French entrepreneurs.
Since 2008 when Airbnb was created, over 1.8 million
tourists have flocked to the French capital, making it
the largest market worldwide. The French government is
committed to welcoming more visitors and consistently
identifying new ways to keep the tourism industry flourishing—these
efforts include the support of companies
such as Airbnb.
Chesky spoke with Paris Deputy Mayor Bruno Julliard
about two important issues for both the city and Airbnb:
the tourist tax and the application of the French ALUR law.
Following the passage of the 2015 Finance Bill and a vote
by the Paris Council, Airbnb will now collect a tourist tax on
behalf of its Parisian hosts and users. Additionally, Airbnb
will reinforce the ALUR law, which regulates the leasing of
properties in the country. Although individuals offering
short-term rentals through their residences are permitted
to do so through Airbnb, residences dedicated solely to
short-term leasing must be classified as commercial rental
property. Through this cooperation, Airbnb and the French
government will continue to enjoy a mutually beneficial
relationship.
The start-up company announced that Paris will play
host to the Airbnb OPEN Conference in November 2015,
which will bring more than 6,000 participants together for
the first time outside of the company’s founding city of San
Francisco.

thursdaysd

"Additionally, Airbnb will reinforce the ALUR law,"

I take it that should read "enforce". I would like to know how they are going to do that. Not holding my breath.

flanneruk

Let's pretend Airbnb does what it says it's going to do.

At (let's guess) an average rate of €50 a night, few hosts are likely to reach France's €32,000 VAT registration requirement - so most Airbnb guests won't have to pay VAT. The host's premises won't be liable to business premises taxation. There'll be a clutch of ways in which the French taxman won't be grabbing money he will be grabbing from conventional B&Bs.

But France's need for tax revenue won't decline. Nor will the propensity of France's hotel industry to whine at the slightest suggestion it might behave like proper businesses. Here's the tear-tantrum it indulged in when its VAT rate was brought up to half what the rest of French industry pays: http://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Article/...-a-catastrophe.

Airbnb hosts' artificial cost advantages over other lodging will inevitably be lobbies away: leaving them with just the (considerable) real advantages that they won't pay themselves a salary, and don't account for the implicit rent of the space the guest takes up.

The Airbnb agreement will force its payment systems to work with the French tax methodology - and French hosts will be inevitably be subject to some French tax auditing. It's simply a matter of time before France will impose on Airbnb hosts all the other costs any sane government expects businesses to fund.

This agreement may well mark the beginning of internet businesses being legally required to grow up. With Britain's imminent Google Tax (which will allow Britain, not the taxpayer, to determine where Google or other multinationals makes their profit on UK-related income), the brief era of web business tax-dodging may well be drawing to an end.

PalenQ

But to me this should allay any fears about airbnb in Paris or France - everything seems smoothed out - rent a airbnbn in Paris without worry and the endorsement of the French Government so point to that.

kerouac

No, I think it is a trap set by the French government to make it easy to slam down <b>HARD</b> on Airbnb as soon as it becomes clear that the law is not being respected. I won't even say that Airbnb fell for it because it is such a clever trap that they had no choice but to say that the law will be fully respected when there is no way they can do it for the vast majority of listings. It is just another example of trying to import the methods of another country without any regard for local customs and regulations -- and being thwarted.

stokebailey

I'd be happy to pay a fair tax for airbnb rentals. (Have been nervously watching our Paris trip, so am relieved by this, Pal.) I'd think airbnb would have the resources to ensure the right thing happens, especially since they have your money before handing it over to the owner.

crosscheck

Good for airbnb and for travelers to Paris! After using vrbo and local agencies for 20+ years in Europe and elsewhere, we stayed in 4 airbnbs last summer and were thrilled with the process. Most of the airbnb listings in large cities are already listed on other apt. rental sites - airbnb just streamlines and simplifies the process.

thursdaysd

"I'd think airbnb would have the resources to ensure the right thing happens,"

I am quite sure they have the resources, given the fees they charge. Whether they are in fact <i>willing</i> to do the right thing is a whole other matter. Their actions in other cities aren't particularly encouraging.

nukesafe

It is not just the streamlining and simplification of the process which are attractive about Airbnb, IMO crosscheck, it is the security that is built in that does not allow the host to get the money until 24 hours after the guest arrives and sees the place was as advertized. The other aspect is that both the host and guest review each other, so each can see if there are negative comments.

Before Airbnb we listed our guestroom with other agencies that gave us no possibility to see how potential guests behaved in other rentals. Often our guests would leave the place a mess, and with small items, like wine glasses, broken. Not enough damage to raise a fuss over, but annoying. Now, with the mutual review process, they invariably point out such minor things before leaving, and we double check the rental very carefully before they arrive to see if we neglected anything.

As a result, we have had nothing but delightful and considerate guests in the five years we have been hosting through Airbnb. It has its hiccups I'm sure, but the system seems to be working.

Christina

interesting, but I tend to agree with Kerouac, we'll see.

I fail to see anywhere in that report that the French govt endorses AirBnB, although the report on the Paris' mayor website does seem a bit gushing if they didn't like this concept, and I don't think they'd brag about being a top site for such rentals.

http://www.paris.fr/english/english/...956_port_19237

That still doesn't make anything legal if someone isn't complying with the law.

Maybe Kerouac will know this -- so if you rent more than occasionally and just say, okay, I'll be reclassified as a commercial rental property. Why wouldn't that be easy to do or why would someone not want to do that? Unless it's just a matter of then they'd have to pay taxes which they are avoiding now, and inspections.

thursdaysd

Why one would not want to reclassify (from Christina's) link:

However, a residence dedicated solely to short-term leasing requires a requalification as a furnished commercial rental property. In this case, the owner must compensate for the commercial usage by creating a comparable furnished residential property for use by Parisians. Failure to do so carries the risk of up to a year in prison and a fine of € 80,000 per infringement. "Respecting these rules is essential. Since 2009, the City of Paris has tightened legislation in this area and we’re pleased that Airbnb shares this commitment to strike the right balance between the needs of locals and visitors," said Bruno Julliard.

I am on Adrian Leeds (Parler Paris) mailing list and she is pretty upset about the idea of the law being enforced.

kerouac

Oh, they have made it super complicated. In the past it just required creating an equivalent property anywhere in Paris to compensate for the vacation rental. People could rent an apartment in a super expensive zone (let's say Saint Germain des Prés) and compensate with a tenement in the 20th arrondissement. The new law says that you must compensate with another place in exactly the same area with exactly the same value.

kerouac

Thursdaysd, that lady (?) has every reason to be upset since she has been exposed as a crook and also revealed illegal ways to get around the law on her website (such as signing a one year lease and breaking it after one month on a technicality). She has been forced to pay huge fines in Paris recently, as well as having to sell several of her apartments, and is apparently considering relocating to Nice where she has other properties. Nice has a corrupt mayor with whom she feels that she will be able to make a deal easily.

thursdaysd

@kerouac - yes, I figured she must be at least on the edge. I've never stayed in one of her properties (too pricey), I read her emails for info on what's going on.

Sorry to heat about the corrupt mayor in Nice, I really like staying in Nice - in the off season.

CarolA

Interesting turn of events. I have a "last minute" trip booked to Paris the end of May and have toyed with renting an apartment, but... the uncertainty has entered into my thoughts.

(The bigger issue is that today I put my passport in the FedEx box to get a Russia Visa added to it. I am afraid to book an apartment until it's back in my hot little hand. Right now everything I have booked can be cancelled easily up until a few days prior to departure. Apartments aren't like that so...)

PalenQ

No, I think it is a trap set by the French government>

So we should never trust the dirty low-handed French Government? Does not say much if French citizens think that about their government - NEVER TRUST THE FRENCH! Right?

stokebailey

Well, after all Pal, can't get around the fact that they are a bunch of foreigners.

stokebailey

I know it's a lot bigger issue than mere taxes. I did search hard for an entirely sanctioned apartment that would suit our family.

kerouac

As well you should have.

crosscheck

<<It is not just the streamlining and simplification of the process which are attractive about Airbnb, IMO crosscheck, it is the security that is built in that does not allow the host to get the money until 24 hours after the guest arrives and sees the place was as advertised.>>

I agree with you, nukesake. The mutual evaluation system is genius, as is the anonymity (yet instant access to the landlord/tenant) during the vetting stage, plus the detailed time-saving maps. I was just streamlining and simplifying my response

Rather than getting bogged down with Parisian bureaucracy, we should all be celebrating the endorsement of a system that takes vacation rentals into the 21st century. To those who are skeptical, I recommend trying airbnb. We stayed in one in Portland to test the waters before moving on to Europe and Latin America. Yes, I have read about growing pains, but I haven't encountered any glitches - for those who like staying in apartments or villas, airbnb is truly a travel game changer.

CarolA, Many airbnbs have a flexible policy that cancellations 24 hours prior to your reservation. This is another great advantage of airbnb over vrbo and traditional rental agencies.