Luisah

I thought that when not using the complete name you drop the "d'," but am seeing the museum referred to more and more as "the D'Orsay." Not a big deal, but I'm wondering.

Thanks.

Padraig

Neither is particularly elegant! It is better to say (the) Musée d'Orsay. Reason: the d' is a contraction of "de", which translates as "of". The "d" is never capitalised (or, more precisely, never correctly capitalised).

Michel_Paris

In a similar vein...the official name of the Louvre is the Musée du Louvre

StCirq

It's wrong to refer to it as the d'Orsay, as that translates to saying "of Orsay" in English. It's like saying you want "au jus," which drives me crazy. You don't want "in the juice," you want the juice.

But Padraic is right. One should say the Musee d'Orsay.

kevin_widrow

Conversationally, people will tend to say for example:

Je vais au Louvre (the Louvre existed as a place all on its own before the museum, so this kind of makes sense).

Saying Je vais au Musee du Louvre would sound a bit strange/redundant.

By contrast, there was never a place named Orsay all on its own in Paris. It was/is either the Quai d'Orsay, the Gare d'Orsay and now the Musee d'Orsay.

So saying for example:

Je vais à l'Orsay would sound very strange.

People say "Je vais au Musée d'Orsay" -

Hope that is only slightly confusing.

-Kevin

Christina

It drives me crazy too, when people include the preposition or partitive in the formal names of things (hotels, museums, whatever). It just sounds stupid to me -- like, oh, I really want to stay at the "du Danube" hotel.

YOu refer to the Orsay museum or Danube hotel. I wouldn't expect English speakers to say "musee d'Orsay", I don't agree that people who don't know French can always pronounce French words correctly. Now I do understand that English speakers who don't know French at all don't know what to say and are anglicizing the thing to be similar to the English language in structure (anything after musee or hotel must be the name), and I do understand why people do this because they don't even understand what they are saying and don't know what to say as it's a different structure than in English.

Padraig

It's an oddity: it seems acceptable to refer to the Musée du Louvre as the Louvre, as Michel_Paris suggests (even the French would not be thrown by references to "le Louvre"); but I don't feel the same can be done with the Musée d'Orsay.

I imagine it is because the building that houses the Musée do Louvre is actually named "le Louvre", whereas the building that houses the Musée d'Orsay was never named "l'Orsay".

Padraig

People who type faster than I do beat me to it!

Michael

I think that in French one would say <i>le d'Orsay</i> or <i>aller au d'Orsay</i> should one choose to drop <i>musée</i>.

Pvoyageuse

The French would say "je vais au musée d'Orsay" or "je vais voir une exposition à Orsay" since in this particular case there is no doubt they are not going anywhere else but a museum.

Padraig

Michael wrote: "I think that in French one would say le d'Orsay or aller au d'Orsay should one choose to drop musée."

I wouldn't.

Luisah

Great replies, thanks. It will be Musee d'Orsay for me.

Love au jus - "in the juice." I'm afraid I'll laugh out loud if I hear someone say it.

taconictraveler

StCirq: Yes, one of my all time "Drives me Crazy" things is the "au jus" - I laughed when you brought it up.

However, I guess I am sympathetic, esp. when I try to speak Italian, which I hardly know, and I am sure people are cringing.

Michael

<i>une exposition à Orsay</i>

I think that the <i>d'</i> would be kept because <i>à Orsay</i> is not very comfortable, even though it would be used that way for a place like Orléans or Auch, but that would be <i>faute de mieux</i>.

kevin_widrow

If you had to, I'd go with "une exposition à l'Orsay" but, even that doesn't sound right. Sorry, but you have to say the whole thing... "une exposition au Musée d'Orsay" -

-Kevin

Pvoyageuse

Big sigh )

http://cooldesource.blog.lemonde.fr/...llard-a-orsay/

http://www.art-marche.com/article-13954619.html

http://www.photosapiens.com/VU-a-Orsay.html

Michel_Paris

PV,

I see it, but I can't quite figure it out.

If I said "à Orsay", to me that would be something like the town of Orsay, while "à l'Orsay" would be a building.

Je suis confondu.

Pvoyageuse

Peut-être parce que le français n'est pas votre langue maternelle, qui sait?

Padraig

Michel_Paris, I think you are closer to being correct than you think (how's that for adding to confusion?). Orsay is a location: le quai d'Orsay; that gives some legitimacy to the phrase "à Orsay".

A little digging tells me that there actually was a building bearing the name Orsay. It was destroyed by fire during the commune of 1871. Read about it (en francais) here: http://www.insecula.com/musee/M0048.html

Michel_Paris

PV,
Je suis un anglophone Québecois, ce qui mélange un peu ma grammaire