PalenQ

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/wo...icial-use.html

The French government has decided to ban the use of the word 'mademoiselle' from official forms because two feminist groups, Osez le Feminism and Chiens de Garde, protested that 'mademosielle', which means young female virgin is applied to women but the French do not use a term like Mondamoiseau for a young male virgin - so there is no similar term for men like the mademoiselle for women!

So in France now be careful about throwing the term mademoiselle around!

All explained in the above link to today's New York Times article.

PalenQ

In English of course we have done the same thing - the word Miss is out of fashion by many women in favor of the more vague Ms. - men have always only been called Mr with no hint in that of being married or not.

In above post I should have said unmarried female instead of virgin in the French context of mademoiselle and madame.

flanneruk

"the French do not use a term like Mondamoiseau for a young male"

Any more.

But Moliere uses mondemoiseau. No idea whether he was being arch, or just using a word that was commonish then (the teacher DID explain which, but it was one of those afternoons after we'd snuck off to the pub at lunchtime and I knew I'd never read him again).

TDudette

It was also awkward for a poster on another thread. How can one decide on which to use when walking into a store? Just "Bonjour" seemed to be the answer.

In American, I call all women 'Miss'-older ones love it and younger ones expect it. Can't go wrong. In French, however, there are nuances, eh? How about "Meez" for all women and "Sure" for all men?

I hated it when a young person first called me ma'am.

PalenQ

TD - the article mentions that jeune homme is often used for men say under 30 and that jeune femme perhaps could be used for younger lasses.

TDudette

And it would be a wise person who applied 'jeune' correctly!

Carlux

Well, all the men I know in the 60's and 70's still call each other' jeune homme. Rather playfully, of course but still.

My experience of living in France agrees with what I've read - that very young girls are mademoiselle; mature women, married or not, are Madame. Having been a very strong Ms. in Canada, I am happy to be a Madame here.

Michael

Damoiseau:

1. Titre donné autrefois à un jeune gentilhomme qui n'était pas encore reçu chevalier. On dit aussi damoisel.

• Ils [les Vaudemont] avaient donné cette seigneurie [Commercy] en fief à des seigneurs, sous le nom de damoiseaux (SAINT-SIMON 178, 122)

• Je vous ferai voir qu'Amadis de Gaule, sous le titre de damoisel de la mer, mit fin à ses plus belles aventures, et qu'Amadis de Grèce, lorsqu'il était appelé le damoisel de l'ardente épée, occit un grand lion et délivra le roi Magadan (VOIT. Lett. 46)

• Bientôt on passait à l'office de page ou de damoiseau dans le château de quelque baron (CHATEAUB. Génie, IV, V, 4)

2. Jeune homme empressé et galant auprès des femmes.

• Je prétends qu'on soit sourde à tous les damoiseaux (MOL. le Dép. V, 9)

• Et, voyant arriver chez lui le damoiseau, Prend fort honnêtement ses gants et son manteau (MOL. École des femmes, I, 1)

• Nous savons toute l'intrigue du rendez-vous et du damoiseau (MOL. G. Dandin, III, 8)

• ....Je ne suis pas homme à gober le morceau, Et laisser le champ libre aux yeux d'un damoiseau (MOL. Ec. des femmes, II, 1)

• Voilà de mes damoiseaux fluets qui n'ont pas plus de vigueur que des poules (MOL. l'Avare, I, 6)

• La fleurette et ce badinage Dont un damoiseau vous combat, Ne donnent pas un équipage Comme les pistoles d'un fat (SEGRAIS Stances à une fille qui faisait des avances à un sot pour l'épouser)

kerouac

Mademoiselle is only disappearing from government forms. Why do people overreact and misinterpret every single thing that happens in France? Do you get a charge out of it?

theflock

"In American, I call all women 'Miss'-older ones love it and younger ones expect it. Can't go wrong."

Whatever gave you that idea? As an older woman, I find it condescending and, well, inappropriate. I prefer ma'am.

Mainhattengirl

Count me in too as someone (an older woman) who would not appreciate being called Miss. I much prefer Ms.

PalenQ

Mademoiselle is only disappearing from government forms. Why do people overreact and misinterpret every single thing that happens in France? Do you get a charge out of it?>

No because I find it interesting - can you wrap your head around that?