Franco's favourite ... Venetian food & restaurants

franco,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, AND,... thank you!!

Franco: This is wonderful! Thank you so much for taking the time. Here is a seafood place someone just recommended to me and I am wondering if you know it or would like to comment:

Al Vecio Bragoso, Strada Nuova/SS Apostoli, Cannareggio.

franco, thank you! I wish I had this a year ago but hope to make good use of it in the future!!

Franco,

Your efforts are greatly appreciated!

ek - I've never heard of Al Vecio Bragoso, sorry. The one of us who comes to Venice next time should perhaps try it and report here accordingly!

TTT

Good idea, Franco! Or maybe we can even meet there one day! Thanks again for all of your help, don't work too hard, and come back to us soon!

I thought I’d provide one final service: linking all “Franco’s favourite…” threads to each other, in order to make them more easily accessible to future users:

Venice:
accomodation: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34791672
sightseeing & transportation: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34791890

Rome:
where to stay: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792021
food & restaurants http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792415
sightseeing: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792538

Umbria: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792839

In case that anybody hesitates to ask just because of my currently scarce presence on Fodor’s, I’d like to repeat that if you’d like me to answer any questions related to the topic of this thread, just post them here – I’m checking rarely, but regularly, but only my “own” threads due to work pressure.

ttt

Ho fame

Thanks! We will be in Venice in June so this is a big help.

I dined at Al Vecio Bragoso in September 2005 and quite liked it, well enough to return for lunch later that same week. I can't remember exactly what I had either time apart from the dessert, which was some sort of traditional cake related to one of the other communities in the lagoon. Very good.

Though there's no way of comparing my taste to Franco's directly, I have been to several of the restaurants he mentions and agree that they serve reasonable food.

Ae Oche: very good pizza as well as traditional dishes like liver with polenta on my visit with my children several years ago, and at the time had the distinction of an entirely "no smoking" side to the restaurant (which was, interestingly, mostly Italian families with children on our visit). This is no longer an issue, as there's no smoking whatsoever in restaurants in Italy now, but at the time was nice.

La Zucca: Another place I liked so well that I returned within the same week, also the visit several years ago with my children. Not just vegetarian, by the way, but vegetables prominent on the menu. Be sure to book ahead, either the day before or the day of.

Al Nono Risorto: I happened on this place one afternoon and picked it for a later return based largely on the vibe and absence of any signage other that Italian. Turns out they host a local chess club, so my 12 year old son got to play (quite well) with some of the locals. Food fine.

Franco - wonderful recommendation about Osteria La Botte, though it took 3 tries to finally manage a visit while they were open The staff seemed a bit confused about our trip back to the dining room, as we had this space all to ourselves for the duration of our meal. The real action was in front, mostly a happy-hour kind of conflagration at the time we visited (7-ish?), with a younger crowd eating ciccheti and drinking wine and catching up with one-another. The staff took very good care of us, however, and the food was excellent... antipasti of insalata caprese, and polipo - and spaghetti al vongole. mmmmmm!

ronin - I'm glad you've enjoyed your meal at La Botte! If you come a little later, at the usual Venetian dinner time around 8-8.30, also the dining room will be cramped, and it's always wise to reserve, unless you want to be part of the happy crowd in the front room while waiting for a table (which is not the worst solution, IMO!).

Franco! Glad you're back to top this thread. I seem to always have a hit or miss experience with dining in Venice, and know this will help alleviate that possibility in the future.

franco:
Thank you so much for your most helpful posts! The first time we were in Venice, we were in a hotel for 3 days--knew we had to come back to an apartment--which we did last October for 1 week--now we are returning to the same apartment for 2 weeks this October. I love to cook, and I do appreciate the gorgeous markets. I couldn't believe the artichoke bottoms--what a luxury! I am unfamiliar with most of the seafood and felt intimidated by the huge selection. So if your time permits, could you please "...go on with Venetian recipes..." or recommend a cookbook that would help me use the seafood and produce so readily available?
We mostly eat in, but we did discover La Zucca and thorougly enjoyed it. Thank you again!

Just returned from Italy and France. al Paradiso in San Polo (Calle del Paradiso) was recommended to us by the cousin of a close friend. The cousin is a native Venetian and his family always eat there when they have guests to treat. It doesn't have a tourist menu, though it is near the Rialto. The meal was excellent, prices moderate and the service was very kind. Hope we can go back someday!

roamer - I'm happy to oblige (this weekend, I'm taking a downtime from my work!). For a first start, I'm trying to limit myself to recipes that you can prepare in October (but if you or anybody else would like to get recipes for other seasons as well, don't hesitate to ask - cooking is my passion!). October is not the very best season, I must say - the artichokes' season will long be over, but for the really good radicchio types (tardivo di Treviso and Castelfrano), it will still be too early - they're arriving by mid-November. And as far as fish and seafood, spring is usually the best season...
But never mind - there is still plenty to cook! First of all, we'll prepare one of the foremost Venetian specialties: baccalà mantecato, mash of cured cod (easily available everywhere, but NO restaurant is catering it in really good quality, not even La Botte, strange enough). In some shops besides (not on!) the fish market, you'll find cured (i.e. salted) cod already soaked - or at least, you can ask them to prepare it for two days later or so (that's the minimum time for soaking cured cod). Cook the drained cod in milk until tender (don't add salt, obviously - it's already salted!). Take it out of the milk, mash it with a fork. Generously add excellent olive oil: get yourself a bottle from Casa del Parmigiano, the best delicatessen shop of Venice, located on the way from S. Giacomo di Rialto, the small church behind the bridge, to the fruit & vegetable market - it's on the left side, and everyone knows it, should you have problems; they've two qualities, both are gorgeous: a more delicate Tuscan and a very, very strong Apulian oil. For baccalà mantecato, I'd prefer the Tuscan oil. Add SOME of the milk in which you've cooked the cod (attention, it's salty!). Add a small quantity of garlic, and some parsley, both chopped, of course, and if necessary (likely not!), some salt. Eat with fresh white bread as a starter. (Bread is not always very good in Venice. I recommend the "filone" of the bakery on Ruga dei Speziali, two steps from the Rialto market.)

Seafood: one of my favourite recipes is mazzancolle con lardo di Colonnata - another starter (the cuisine of Venice is big on starters). Mazzancolle are a particularly delicious kind of small tiger prawns. On the Venice market, they're always raw (which is a sign of quality, of course). Wrap in razor-thin slices of lardo di Colonnata (this planet's best raw salted bacon, 100 percent fat, salt, herbs, incredibly delicious, to be found at - exactly, Casa del Parmigiano). Fry cautiously in olive oil with a small quantity of garlic (the lardo will almost melt away). Give a dash of dry white wine, add salt and pepper, let cook a little. Away from the heat, add some chopped parsley. Serve lukewarm (!) with white bread.

Another starter: latti di seppia - I hope they're available in October! Latti di seppia are some sort of squid entrails, but they don't resemble any better known entrails. Rather, they resemble the squid itself, but their taste is more subtle and their consistency more tender. Put into COLD water. Bring to a boil. Continue boiling for 8 minutes. Drain. Season with olive oil, salt, pepper, parsley, and some fresh lemon juice. Marinate for some hours. Serve cold.

And now, a main course that I owe to the owners of the apartment that I'm usually renting in Venice (see my "accomodation" thread, the link is somewhere here above): swordfish with zucchini and olives - there should still be some zucchini in October, and the zucchini of S. Erasmo (the Venetian vegetable island) are certainly the world's best!! Cut the zucchini into rather thin slices. Brown in olive oil (I'd suggest the Apulian variety, this time), add chopped green olives (once more, I use to purchase them at Casa del Parmigiano - or try the tremendous olive taggiasche, a green-brown-grey sprinkled variety, incomparably delicious), add few (!) salt. Serve with sword fish steaks, simply fried in olive oil with salt and pepper and maybe a little lemon juice. (Sword fish steaks are always available in excellent quality in Venice.)

Finally, if you happen to find gò (this is possible most periods of the year) - that's the best fish to make fish soups, and maybe the best single product available in Venice. Gò is Venetian dialect, but I don't know how they're named in proper Italian, nor in English - it's a laguna fish, a kind of goby (but there are more than 2000 kinds of gobies on this planet!!). If you add some small passere (the passera is a kind of flounder, but not the usual dull flounder - it's gorgeous both cooked and fried!), maybe a small scorpionfish, and/or a small gurnard, you'll get the best fish soup you've ever had in your life. Sometimes, the fishmongers of Venice are preparing a mixture of small soup fishes (but gò are always to be ordered separately... for the true Venetian, they're the "stars" of the market). Whatever the seasoning, this soup will be unique. I use to make a French bouillabaisse with these Venetian fish, since I love bouillabaisse, but that's of course no Venetian recipe, not at all! (I don't of course dare telling any Venetian that I'm using their gò for a French soup! Italians are so conservative in gastronomic respects...) Btw, of the gò, not much will remain. They will cook to rags, and at the end, you simply throw their heads and bones away - they're making the soup a little thicker, and above all, they leave their incomparable taste...

I hope that's sufficient for the moment - at least, I stop it here because writing so much has already made me tired, I must admit. But don't hesitate to ask for further recipes!

franco-
You are so very kind to take your precious downtime to reply to my request--thank you, thank you! Now, I can hardly wait to get cooking in Venice--cooking is my passion, also, and wine is my husband's passion--so we make a good pair!
The apartment we stay in has quite a well equipped kitchen--not too far from the Rialto market. ( It's near Campo Santa Maria Mater) I will definitely find Casa del Parmigiano--thank you for that recommendation.
We don't leave home until the end of August (will be in Stresa, Montepulciano and Fonterutoli before we get to Venice early October), so should your work schedule and inclination permit, I would appreciate any other recipes or specialty shop recommendations you have time to provide--mille grazie!

Hi franco,

Great to see you back.....I wish, I wish, I wish I could be across the table from you watching you put these amazing dishes together!!!!...You describe with such brio that I can taste it all as I read....

ttt

Traviata - hi. They're even better when you taste them with your papillae than just with your imagination

roamer - you're welcome. I might add that for the baccalà mantecato, it's important to mash it till it falls apart into its single thin fibers, and if it's too strenuous to do that with a fork, you can use a food processor as well, provided it's a slow food processor, one that doesn't crush those thin fibers to pulp. Buon appetito!

Franco,
It isnt Venetian food & restaurants
but do you know anything about the ca foscari apts. or that area in Venice?
Thank you so much for your time.

Franco,
What a lovely thread. We will be in Venezia from June 9-15, staying in an apartment not far from the Rialto market and we are looking forward to cooking there, as well as trying your favorite restaurants. Any produce or fish for which we should particularly be on the lookout at this time of year? Also, any favorite spring or summer recipes?
Grazie mille!

Sea_Marks - since you're leaving so soon, I simply must take time to give you some recipes, though in a hurry. I'll take mostly recipes that I've already written down once, for an exchange with another food addict...

Now in June, you'll still find artichokes, and of course, zucchini!! (The main season for seafood is in winter and spring, and spring means March in Venice, not June - this is already early summer!, so the most interesting goods on the market might be vegetables now.)

First of all, my favourite artichoke pasta: take those marvellous artichokes that they're selling already cleaned in Venice, cut them into thin slices, sauté in a small quantity of water with a dash of white wine, salt, pepper. When half of the cooking is done, add a little bit of minced hot pepper. When the cooking is done, add butter and lemon juice, mash. Prepare a light bechamel sauce (made of butter, flour, milk, salt, pepper and nutmeg), combine with the artichoke mash. Serve on farfalle or penne.

Another artichoke delicacy is Marcella Hazan's gratinated artichokes (she's actually living in Venice, so she must be preparing it with Venetian artichokes herself). Cook four or six artichokes (according to size) in plenty of boiling water with a dash of lemon juice, don’t overcook. Cut them into very thin slices now. Put into a baking pan, alternating with grated parmesan cheese and small pats of butter, finishing with plenty of parmesan and butter. (The parmesan, of course, should be bought at Casa del Parmigiano, theirs is the best. But if anyone wants to prepare this recipe elsewhere: please take only Parmigiano Reggiano for every recipe that says "parmesan" - never Grana, this cheap surrogate.) Put into the hot oven, let brown for 15 or 20 minutes. Let stand for a few minutes. Serve with white bread.

Another marvel of the Venice markets are the small onions that they're equally selling already cleaned (how many tears they're sparing their clients!). They're just delicious marinated, as a starter: Fry one pound of small onions in olive oil. Add the juice of one lemon, a glass of white wine and 20 leaves of sage. Boil for four minutes, adjust with salt and pepper. Let stand for one day before eating.

And here comes another great delicacy: stuffed zucchini (or pumpkin) blossoms (yes, in Italy they don't just eat zucchini, but also they're blossoms!!).
This is no easy cooking (you have to work very carefully in order not to tear those tender blossoms apart), but it's worth every effort. You'll need about six to eight blossoms per person; the stuffing is made of mozzarella cheese (of course, mozzarella di bufala, made of buffalo milk, and of course to be purchased at the Casa del Parmigiano), cut into small cubes, basil, and some (few, but not too few!) hashed salted (of course, washed and drained) anchovies (the shops alongside the fish market are selling them, in two qualities, from Spain and from Sicily - those from Spain are the better ones; btw, you have to fillet them yourself), few salt, pepper. Stuff carefully into the blossoms, dip the stuffed blossoms into a light, almost liquid pancake dough (milk, egg, flour, salt), fry in olive oil. Exciting!

Zucchini: other than the zucchini with olives (and swordfish) mentioned above, I'll give you one of my pasta recipes. For two persons, cut one small or two tiny zucchini in thin slices; mince one onion; and cut two slices (each as thick as a lady's finger) of pickled, and of course already cooked and tender and peeled, beef tongue (lingua salmistrata, in Italian) into cubes. In olive oil, fry the onion first, then add the tongue, then the zucchini. Add salt and pepper, nutmeg, few garlic and, if you happen to find that in Venice, ground caraway seeds (cumino, in Italian - try at the "drogheria" on Ruga dei speziali). Sprinkle with two spoons each of water and balsamico vinegar, cook vividly for a few moments, serve on penne.

IMPORTANT ADDITION FOR ROAMER, and for everybody:
I've taken for granted, and maybe erroneously, that you've already husked the mazzancolle in the recipe above, before wrapping them into the lardo slices - sorry if this may have caused confusion.

If you don't mind, now... I have to go back to my work!

Franco,
Grazie mille! My mouth is already watering with the thought of the artichoke and zucchini and we'll think of you when we're shopping at the Rialto market on Saturday morning.

franco,
I think I would have figured out that the mazzancolle needed to be husked before wrapping in lardo, but grazie mille for taking the time to mention it!
I have eaten the stuffed zucchini blossoms in restaurants, but never dared try them myself--now I will, thanks to your kind response to Sea-Marks.
The only way I had prepared artichokes before Venice last year was to boil them in water with lemon, then pull off each leaf, dip in butter or lemon-mayo, scrape the tender part off with my teeth, and anticipate the lovely heart after scraping out the bristly choke. I was just amazed at the market to see the vendor--with a few quick whacks of a very sharp knife--cut off and discard the leaves and choke, pare the heart, and toss it into a bucket of lemon water! The hearts were something like 2 euro for 5, and we enjoyed them just sauteed with a little garlic and lemon. Now I will surely make the pasta!
Please do not jeopardize your work to supply more recipes, but if time permits for you, could you explain how to prepare the quite small artichokes that I see in the markets in Italy? They are not available here--we get only the large "globe" kind.
Again, thank you.
-roamer

Wonderful!

Franco:
I was referred to your threads from Eloise and the information is invaluable. It is really helping me plan for Venice and Rome. Thanks!
Carol

roamer, sorry to answer only now - but better late than never, isn't it?
Well, the preparation of small artichokes depends on the variety - artichoke and artichoke is not the same!
In Venice, you'll find castraure, very early in winter (beginning already in November, but the castraure "nostrane", i.e. those from Venice itself, would arrive in February). You can eat them raw, as a salad; or you can simply wash them thoroughly, and without cutting away anything, fry them in plenty of olive oil (the leaves are still perfectly tender, no woody parts at all). I must say, though, that castraure are not my favourite artichoke variety; for me, they're slightly too bitter, and generally, their taste is not as subtle as you might expect from vegetables as young as they actually are, especially since the "adult" artichokes of Venice are VERY subtle. (In Rome, they have another variety, I don't recall the name, that's being gathered very young, too, in order to be fried - for which purpose I prefer that Roman variety.)
Another small variety that is to be found actually now in Venice is called botoi. They have to be cleaned, but with less effort than big artichokes, since you don't need to eliminate the "hay" (which accounts for most of the labour of cleaning artichokes) - just break away the dark leaves, cut all green parts from the outer side of the bottom, and cut the upper half of the yellow leaves, too, but don't bother about the hay. Cook them in a mixture of half (or slightly less than half)olive oil and half water, add a dash of white wine, garlic and parsley, cover, and heat for 20 minutes - delicious as a starter, or as a side dish. You could also marinate them (either sour, with vinegar, or just with olive oil and anchovies).

Sea_Marks, please don't fail to report on your culinary experiences in Venice.

Everybody else, I'm glad if these threads are helpful for some of you!

franco,
Certainly better late than never--but I won't leave for Italy until the end of August anyway.
Thanks to you, I now know quite a lot more about artichokes-I thought the smaller ones were just young ones of the large variety! I will see what is available when we are there and follow your suggestions.
Once again, mille grazie!

Hello Franco, I have a friend in the region of Veneto that cooks the artichokes that you describe along with boiled potatoes. Quite good actually.

ek - I've stolen a few days for myself and been to Venice (it was already time!!)... and I must admit: I've had a look at Al Vecio Bragoso, and yet didn't go in! The menu was quite ok, but when I had looked at it for 15 seconds, there was already a waiter addressing me in English with the usual Venetian "nice food, nice price" litany, at 6.30 or 7 p.m. (!!), when no Italian would ever go for dinner (and I wouldn't, either). Sorry, but this is the perfect method to chase me away; if a waiter in Italy addresses me in English, I'm away in a second (not without answering in Italian)!

LoveItaly - I didn't know that they're combining artichokes and potatoes in the Veneto, but I've done that myself (without any recipe), and I confirm that it's a particularly good combination!

Wonderful information. Makes me want to return to Venice.

Woody

Sorry you found the waiter at Al Vecio Bragoso off-putting, franco. I generally drop by and book at restaurants earlier in the day. Given that Americans and northern Europeans eat dinner early it's perhaps not surprising that he took you for somebody who might be anglophone if you were perusing the menu at 6:30 or 7:00, and it's also not surprising that he might approach you, as he knows that he'd still be able to feed you and turn the table in time for later, much busier time of the evening when I ate.

The night I ate there (in the company of an American friend who speaks English only) there were no attempts to speak English by any of the staff (although Italian is not my first language) and the crowd was predominantly if not entirely Italian.

I ate lunch with an Italian friend later in the week, similarly nice experience.

We loved La Zucca. It was our favorite meal in Venice.

I was wondering if you are familiar with the restaurant Da Pinto? We had the best house red wine there. We ate there a couple of times. Food was always decent, but the house red wine was amazing. Do you have any idea what it is? I would love to have some more. Thanks.

Thank you so much for all of the information. My husband and I will be leaving for Italy for the first time this month. Info will definentely come in handy.

mauitammy - I know this place only from passing by. I recommend to simply call them by phone and ask about the red house wine. If you need Italian telephone numbers, this is where to search: http://www.infobel.com/italy/
(Venice, of course, has to be Venezia in an Italian telephone directory.)

What do you know about the restaurant Da Ivo.

I've never noticed this restaurant so far, though I've been passing by dozens of times (Calle and Ramo de' Fuseri being one of the mainfares, as well as Frezzeria just around the corner). This will be due to the fact, no doubt, that in this part of Venice, I'm blind for any restaurants - way too many tourists! I can't simply imagine that you'd get really good food in such a touristy quarter (but maybe da Ivo is the one and only exception - I hope you'll check and tell us...).

As some of you may have noticed, I'm back on Fodor's - but since these "favourite" threads have proved quite practicable, I invite everybody to continue posting questions here related to the subject of this thread.

Franco, Your list was very helpful, and I hope everyone who sees it profits from the information, but as you may have seen in another thread, I do not like to mention restaurants by name. Very few restaurants, particularly if they are small and not very well known, benefit from the presence of floods of tourists. You will recognize them, I think, from the descriptions.

That said, I must admit that I only ate three meals in the restaurants you have recommended. It does not seem like many over nine or ten days, but please bear in mind that I only eat a full lunch or dinner, never both. And when I say full, I mean the whole classical Italian meal that even Italians are no longer eating as often as they used to. I did not go to any of the pizzerias - chiefly because they do not offer full meals, but also because pizza, to me, is something I eat in Rome, not in Venice. (I know some purists eat it only in Naples, but I prefer the thinner Roman version and, in any case, I’m in Rome once or twice a year and almost never in Naples.) Vegetarian food does not appeal to me. On two visits to Venice many, many years ago, I ate at the elegant establishment you suggest. As you say, the location is wonderful, the food only average. What is more to the point is that I can simply no longer afford it; I didn’t even glance at the menu when I went to Torcello.

I ate very well on all three occasions. At one off-the-beaten-path restaurant, I did find the prices somewhat high, given the location. But the other, where I hesitated to go because I was afraid I might not feel comfortable, was perfection. The food was excellent, the service pleasant and the prices not only more than reasonable but, oh rarity of rarities in Venice, the same for locals and tourists. I was the only tourist there the first time, but when I returned, there was a French couple there with a very well known and widely used guide to inexpensive restaurants. I hope that is not a bad omen for the future; for the time being, I certainly enjoyed the second meal as much as the first.

Of my other meals, one was in a SlowFood establishment where there were almost no Venetians, only tourists, which may or may not explain why I found the meal disappointing. I ate well but expensively in two old, well-established fish restaurants. I returned to a restaurant on Burano where I had had a superb risotto alla crema di scampi the last time I was in Venice; this time, the meal was good, but not more than that. With a friend from Rome who works in the arts-communications-journalism sphere, I went to a newly reopened restaurant - it is listed in my guidebook printed in 1993 - that had been recommended to her and was, if possible, even lower priced than your wonderful suggestion, but that in itself is not a recommendation if there are a host of other weaknesses: the food was not very good (although served in humongous portions), the decor - if one can call amateur oil paintings “decor” - appalling, the attitude problematic: we were only given reservations for 9:30; I was unprepared to wait that long, we went at 8:30, the place was empty. I think they are trying to create “buzz” by playing hard to get... All right, I will name this restaurant so that you can avoid it: Antica Adelaide on Calle Priuli near the Ca d”Oro. I count only eight meals, so the others must have been totally unmemorable.

I’m afraid it may not please you, but all in all, I have to say that I ate better and more reasonably during my three days in Ravenna...

Eloise, just a few lines to thank you for this report, too (other than your sightseeing report on the other thread). Of course I agree that you're getting much better food in Ravenna, as in most Italian places - as I said in my original post here, if you want to go for a really extraordinary meal, you have to go outside Venice (though not necessarily as far as Ravenna!). I'm glad that you've been profiting from my recommendations, and as far as pizza, I've included it only for the benefit of low-budget travelers, and of fervid pizza lovers (and no, I'm not among them); of course I fully agree that eating pizza in Venice is like eating pizza in New York, or in Paris.

I just came back from Venice (been there for more than one week), and here we go with a culinary update.
Bad news first: The Due Mori in Dolo has been closed - the family continues to run the more elegant restaurant at Villa Goetzen, but gave up the wonderfully old-fashioned Due Mori.

nessundorma, if you happen to be around: this time, I finally tried Do Farai, the osteria you once recommended on another thread. First of all, thank you for the recommendation. This is a very likeable place, with an extraordinarily committed and nice owner, and while their written menu is mostly composed of standard dishes, they are preparing actually rare and interesting dishes in addition to that (you have to ask to get them!), and thus, it seems an interesting spot for those who don't know the Venetian cuisine well and want to try something unusual. This time, they had masanete (tiny crabs to be eaten as a whole, i.e. with the crunchy casings, after boiling them, and after cutting away legs and pincers), or a salad of prawns and young raw artichokes, a rare recipe as well. But here comes the con: the quality of cooking is somehow typical of Venetian restaurants - though good, it's not excellent. I can tell that with rare precision since as luck would have it, I had got that very salad recipe myself, and I had prepared it and eaten it for brunch on that very day! And I must say: my salad was much better, especially because my prawns were much better (of course I know where to buy on the Rialto fish market, but a restaurant should know even better than I do...). So I recommend Do Farai for those who are not able to cook for themselves in Venice, and don't want to spend their entire holiday eating calamari fritti; but as far as I am concerned, though I'll certainly give them a second try (the nice owner alone is worth it), I count it among the many examples why I'm preferring to cook at "home" (i.e., at the apartment I rent) when in Venice.

And just in case that roamer is around, as well, or that anybody else needs a preparation for young, tender artichokes, here is the recipe; it's a glorious preparation, and a premiere for me cause as mentioned above, I didn't love artichokes of the castraure variety so far - but if they are prepared this way, I do:
4 castraure (tender young artichokes with a very strong flavour - no need to cut away much of them, maybe you want to remove the two or three outmost leaves, but there is no "hay" inside), cut into very thin slices lengthwise. You can also use the stem, if you peel it. Sprinkle with juice of half a lemon, salt, let stand for 15 minutes. Cut one (raw) fennel, again in very thin slices. Reserve the green fennel herb. Mix fennel and artichoke slices. Add minced parsley and rucola (rocket), peel the second half of the lemon, clean from white internal membranes and seeds. Put fennel green, lemon pulp, one clove of garlic, one tablespoon of capers and four of olive oil into the cutter, blend; if the sauce is too thick, add a few drops of water. Salt and pepper, mix with the vegetables. You can add more lemon juice if you want.
Separately, gently fry super-fresh (i.e. raw) shelled prawns in olive oil, season with salt, pepper and a few drops of lemon juice. Don't mix prawns and artichoke salad before serving.
Frankly, this is a recipe that you can do justice only in Venice - you need castraure artichokes, and prawns of exceptional quality. But it is DELICIOUS.

I should have added that also the prawns are to be eaten cold - you prepare both salad and prawns the night before.

Thank you, Franco! I'm going back to Venice in March, and this will be a big help.

I was trolling through your posts and came to your suggestions for castraure artichokes--to add to my Venice cooking file. The apartment where we stay does not have a blender--can I hand chop the ingredients? I presume this recipe was being made long before modern kitchen appliances came along! I am long overdue to thank you for the helpful suggestions on food, recipes, etc. that you provided before our trip last October. I really intended to write a trip report, but shortly after we returned home I noticed a special on Max Jet's new route from Las Vegas, and since we had enjoyed our trip on that airline so much, we decided to spend New Year's in London and then on to Paris for two weeks. So planning a new trip took precedence over the trip report! We did have a lovely time in Venice in October--the weather could not have been better; we especially had fun following off-the-beaten-path walks described in "Corto Maltese's Hidden Passages" by Hugo Pratt. Do you know the book? We leave in March for Italy once again--two weeks in Montepulciano, 4 days in Lucca, 3 days in Santa Margherita, a week in Bel Girate on Lago Maggiore, then Venice for the last two weeks. Are there any special seasonal delights I will find in Venice in late April? Again, thanks for your always helpful suggestions.

Hello roamer, of course, the recipe is older than food blenders - but what they used before the blender had been invented was a mortar, and I suppose "your" apartment won't have a mortar, as well... ok, this is maybe an apt opportunity to advertise, once again, the apartment where I usually stay and cook: www.rosadivenezia.com - they have a food blender there!
No, I don't know the Hugo Pratt book - "my" guide of hidden passages in Venice is Paolo Giordani's "30 itineraries". Highly recommended!
In late April, it's artichoke time! - too late for castraure, I'm almost sure, but high season for "adult" artichokes, so you could prepare all the artichoke recipes given above! Zucchini and zucchini blossoms should be available, too, though their best season is summer.

Franco...
Thank you for the response. The apartment where you stay and cook looks lovely--perhaps we will try it next time. Casa Veronica at www.athomeinvenice.com has been very comfortable for us and we like the location near Rialto Market. Maybe I will bring my mortar and pestle from home! I look forward to the zucchini!

I meant to mention in my previous post three restaurants we enjoyed last October. Antiche Carampane at San Polo 1911--we had scallops with 3 different sauces, then pasta with crab, and perfectly cooked John Dory. Vini da Gigio 30131 Venezia in Cannaregio--baccala mantecato(good, but not as good as your recipe, Franco!), a delicious pasta with duck sauce, then osso buco for me and steak in pink peppercorn sauce for my husband. And Trattoria Corte Sconta at 3886 Calle del Pestrin in Castello--black pasta with amber jack, a beautifully presented mixed grilled seafood platter with some grilled vegetables, and a memorable white wine from Friuli. Just thought you--and others who read your notes--might like to know of these places. Oh! Io ho fame! Must stop!

Thank you, roamer, of course that's interesting! I really have to try Corte Sconta - till now, I used to be put off by the prices, but since everyone praises their kitchen...
I'm glad that you already seem to have prepared baccalà mantecato yourself, and liked it!

Franco,

Just saw your posts for the first time. I am so glad they have reappeared. I'll be in an apartment in mid-April in the Castello area. I am so looking forward to shopping in the market and attempting to prepare the food for myself. Years ago, my family stayed in a Rome apartment, and the food prepared from the markets was of much better quality than the restaurants. We learned to keep it simple, and it was a delight. Glad I caught up with your posts. Thanks for all the information.

I feel very uncomfortable about this last posting, as I do for quite a while with all postings of HelpVenice aka Ivan Gianni. His is an extraordinarily weird website, and I'm not sure what to think of his recommendations - either this is ONLY hair-raising amateurism (which is true in any case), or it's at the same time a disguised business that Mr. Gianni is trying to advertise on this forum. At least, it's strange that the only hotel (imagine! the ONLY hotel all over Venice) that has his recommendation is on the Lido, and it's the one where he is - as he himself admits on his website - working as a receptionist. And as for the apartments he is "recommending", you're inquiring with HIM, so if he didn't earn at least some money from these rentals, this would be unusual philantropy, to say the least.
But even if he is just a philantropist (and he pictures himself as such), I'm not entirely sure about his restaurant recommendations (five out of the eight restaurants he's giving here are also advertised on his website, btw). I've recommended Locanda Cipriani myself (above), but not because of "quality and price onest/good", rather, I think it's a memorable place for celebrating whatever, IN SPITE of the average food and the high-above-average prices. And please: Osteria alla Madonna is such a standard recommendation, every clerk at the tourist office would send you there. It's not a bad restaurant, it has a very professional staff, and sometimes, you can get one excellent dish, but generally, the kitchen quality is so-so, and certainly not as high as the prices. The Gatto Nero on Burano island comes with a recommendation in which I trust somewhat more than in Ivan Gianni's, by a local living a few steps from the restaurant, but at the same time, he warned me about the prices (cf. "onest/good"???), which is why I haven't tried it yet. (I will, maybe next summer, and I'll report accordingly.)

And now for something more pleasant: roamer and stuart, in April, you should still find moeche! (Their main season is in March, but you can find some most times of the year, and I guess April should be a fine month for them, though I don't recall precisely.) Moeche are small, green (!!) crabs sold alive and so tender that you eat them as a whole, with carapace and pincers. This is among the most splendid specialties I've ever tasted, though maybe for adventurous eaters only (forgive me, Eloise, if you happen to be listening). And it's a dish that you can only prepare at home, if you want to savour the traditional Venetian recipe - restaurants can't do it, and in a moment you'll see why. Ah yes, and they're really expensive, and available in Venice only. Very filling, btw, so you don't need large quantities.
Get up early and buy ONLY living moeche. Whisk several eggs, season with salt and pepper, and put the living moeche into the mixture... they LOVE eggs, and you'll hear them smacking loudly (really!!). They're eating their own stuffing now, though they don't know yet... As soon as they're fed up with the eggs, prepare a thin pancake dough of just milk, flour and salt; dip the (now full and tired) moeche into the dough (don't fear anything when touching them, they can't do you any harm with their pincers - having molted the night before, their carapace is a soft skin at the moment, pincers included) and fry them in boiling olive oil. Serve immediately. The reason why restaurants can't prepare this dish is easy - the living moeche, being sold in the morning only, would either die without food, or their digestion would ruin the flavour of the egg stuffing until all of them would have been ordered, fried and eaten.

What an amazing recipe. Although I'm not sure I have the capability to try it by myself.

Ok, "try and sign", "smiling clients", I guess it's obvious now that this is a business abusing Fodor's for advertising their services. And now, in order to make sure that Mr. Ivan Gianni will get me right...

Senti un po', Ivan Gianni: ti xe Venexian? Allora, perché non ci fai sapere le moeche come sono in Aprile - è questo il genere d'informazione che chiediamo qui. Questo è un forum non per i turisti, ma per i viaggiatori (conosci la differenza?), e NON per gli operatori professionali come te - la tua presenza qui, cioè la tua continua promozione degli affari tuoi, è assolutamente intollerabile ... xe vietà, intendi? Allora, sii buono, e smetti a fare il rompicoglioni, grazie.

I am fascinated by the moeche recipe! We are (fairly) adventurous eaters, so will hope to give it a try, although we won't get to Venice until mid May. Will moeche still be available then? I know how busy you are, franco, but any other seasonal "Venice only" recipes you can provide are much appreciated. We especially enjoyed the swordfish with zucchini and olives--and I think the zucchini and other fresh vegetables should be readily available in May.

Honestly, I don't know. I know that the main season for moeche is in March, but I've seen them at many different seasons; never in December or January, though. Lucky me, I'm not busy anymore - I'm just busy figuring out how to get from one Greek island to another in May, which is kind of impossible cause most of the ferry schedules are still to be published...

Just for the reference of future readers: no, I'm not nuts, and I'm not fighting with an (Italian) phantom here. There were postings of a Venetian business trying to abuse Fodor's for advertising, and I tried to convince them to get out of here - in vain, but the editors have been kind and attentive enough to ban this poster quickly, and to delete all of his postings...

Franco, grazie

BKM

franco - grazie for the very informative thread(s)...

We are making our first visit to Venezia at the end of April and will use some of your recomendations as we can for the wine bars and casual trattorias you suggest.

We are staying at hotel riva which is close to your favorite apartment I believe.

Do you have a recomendation for a first night quick place to get food and wine since we will be arriving late on Friday night (flight arrives at 8PM) and will be a bit tired. We want to be close to the hotel but away from the tourist traps of San Marco...

montys - no way, sorry. If your flight arrives at 8 pm at Marco Polo (right?), you won't be in town much before 9.30, and at that time, most restaurants are already closing in Venice. Places that stay open in the later evening are either the tourist traps you wisely want to avoid (there are some of them on Calle Larga S. Marco, five steps from your hotel), or Ae Oche (see above), which is on the other end of town...

bm

Franco, yes we are getting in at Marco Polo airport at 8PM...so thanks for the update on what might be open. We will either get food at the airport (gasp) or somewhere along our journey...

What is you recomendations right close to the hotel for later on our trip?

We were told to try Cantina Canaletto but I am not sure about it - we like simple casual food and love wine...

Right close to the hotel, I cannot recommend anything, and I don't know Cantina Canaletto. But on your other, "normal" evenings, distance should not be an issue - Venice is a small town, you can go and eat anywhere. Along your way from the airport into town, btw, you won't eat either - I guess you'll take the Alilaguna, and along your way, nothing but water will surround you. I'm having the same problem regularly - eating on the first evening in Venice, immediately upon arrival, is tricky. If I were to choose, I'd go - tired or not - to Ae Oche, as I've done often on my first evening.

Thanks again for the help!

I am not sure how tired we will be, since we will only be coming in from Dublin on a direct flight and should already be over our jet lag...

I think the Ae Oche sounds great and the menu looks awesome!

Thank you so much again - I will look at your other suggestions for our "normal" nights as well

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Update: I've been learning on another thread that Do Spade has been closed since the owner has obviously retired. Whether it's yet open again or not has not been clarified so far, anyhow, it will be a different management, and I'm afraid we'll have to forget about donkey stew and goose sausages.

I'll take the opportunity though and add a nice update, as well (I always forgot about it so far): last summer, I discovered the best gelato by far that I've ever had in Venice: on Rio di S. Trovaso, right across the bridge from S. Trovaso church. Their pistacchio gelato, above all, is sensational!

That pistacchio icecream is sensational isn't it! My personal favorite too. Even in winter there's loads of people there ordering it.

Franco, I have heard from my friend who has a B & B in San Polo, she tells me that Do Spade has reopened with new owners, so it is not the original owner or Emilio, the last owner. She said it is always empty.

rialtogrl, thank you.

re: that pistacchio icecream, they're using Sicilian pistacchios, which are supposed to be the best in the world... well, I guess I wouldn't tell my Iranian friends, but let's agree on "the best in the Western world". Still, Sicilian pistacchios are excellent enough to have been awarded the title of a Slow Food produce.

Franco, would you like to contribute to my thread about "Restaurants with a view - Italy"? I'd love to hear your suggestions! (it is near the top currently - but if you click on my name you will find it easily).

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I will be staying near Campo San Angelo. My hotel reccommended Al Bacareto. Can you tell me anything about it? Or do you know of a good moderate priced eatery in the area? Thank you, Lynne

The Bacareto is quite good, but one of the best examples of heavy Venetian overpricing. The prices, if you look at their menu, may not seem so absolutely frightening, but the price-value relation is really bad: 1. it's good, as I said, but not really exciting, 2. above all, their helpings are so minimal that you'd leave almost as hungry as when entering, but not without paying a considerable bill.
That's a very, very nice neighbourhood (one of my favourites, actually), but as far as moderately priced, good eating, I don't think you'll find anything there. But Venice is small, don't hesitate to go for dinner on the far end of the city.

Hi franco, bookmarking for future reference, nice to see you bursting into print here when our other Italian food thread is quiet (Where is ekscrunchy, and koreaprincess's trip report??)PS, at last found a radichio in a market here in the desert, now can attempt the gnocci recipe we discussed at length. I know it's not a Venetian radichio, but I can't be too fussy about these things in my neck of the woods.

Hi Franco Thank you for my answer about Al Bacareto. I am considering your recommendation about Osteria ala Botte. There will be 5 of us, arriving by plane at 12n, seeing the Doges Palace and St. Marks. After dinner we hope to take a leisurely ride by vaparetto down the Grand Canal. This restaurant is not far from our Hotel. Do they have sit down dinner? Is there a good time to go for dinner? Thanks again. Lynne

arabianjedi, ek IS already back, I've noticed several postings of hers, it's just that she didn't come back to Italian food so far... btw, I hope you've noticed the recipes I've left for you on the other thread!

Lynne, dinner time in Venice is somewhat earlier than elsewhere in Italy: around 8 p.m., in summer 8.30. Of course you can sit down at La Botte - that's not a fastfood hell!!! Since that place is always packed, it's wise to reserve - or you join the happy (standing) crowd in their first room, and have a drink or two while waiting to be seated.

Thanks Franco I am going to make a reservation. I'll let you know how it works out. Lynne

Franco,
I've read some of your recipes & we are going to cook!! when we are in Venice. You probably don't use a cookbook, but do you have a favorite cookbook for Venetian cooking? My brother will be joining us & he's a commercial fishing boat (actually catches clams in New York City) & he loves to cook. He's a really good cook. We are going to go to the fish market at the Rialto. He probably doesn't even need a cookbook.
I printed & I am taking this thread to Italy.
Last year, I printed your Umbria threat & followed a lot of it. Loved Umbria! Thanks for all your input.
Maria
Redondo Beach, CA

Maria, congratulations on your upcoming trip, a passionate cook like your brother will love the Rialto market. I do have a favourite Venetian cookbook, but it's - in German!!, of all languages. Strange but true, it's much better than anything I found in Italian on Venetian cooking. If you or your brother happen to read German: Cornelia Schinharl, Original venezianische Küche, Seehamer Verlag. If not, you'll have to stick to this thread, I'm afraid... some of the recipes here are actually from that book, others are unavailable in any book (like the moeche recipe that I've got from a Venetian restaurateur by word of mouth).

Let me add one more really great recipe by that same restaurateur - sopa coada, pigeon soup. Cut two pigeons into quarters. Chop one carrot, one stalk of celery and one onion, brown in three tablespoons of butter, add the pigeon quarters, brown. Little by little add a glass of dry white wine, let cook, salt and pepper, cover, let gently simmer. After 25 minutes, add the pigeon livers, continue for 5 minutes. In the meantime, roast six slices of bread in four more tablespoons of butter. Bone the pigeons and cut the livers into halves. To the cooking juice, add one liter of broth (beef broth for instance, or pigeon broth of course), and set aside one more liter of broth. Grate 3.5 oz. of parmesan (Reggiano). Butter a large fire-proof pan, soak two of the bread slices in broth, put into the pan, sprinkle with one third of the parmesan, put the meat of one pigeon on top and two liver halves, continue with bread, parmesan, meat, liver, bread and parmesan. Add the broth/cooking juice mixture till the upper layer of bread is barely soaked ´(use more broth if necessary). Put into a very slow oven for at least (!!!) three hours, add some broth from time to time. In the end, heat the rest of the broth and serve it in separate bowls together with the main dish (which is rather a stew than a soup).

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Topping since for a while, questions are coming up regularly whose answers are to be found here...

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grazie franco!...I am interested in a nice restaurant that doesn't really feature seafood. None of our party of 4 likes it that much and I know that Venice has nice and specializes in it..but would really like a good restaurant for us to go to celebrate one in our group's birthday. grazie for your help ...we will be staying about 70 km from St Marks Square...

Hi russwuf, I recommend Vini da Gigio. They're definitely not specializing in seafood, and while some seafood will certainly be on the menu (Venice IS seafood country, of course), this is clearly a restaurant for carnivores. Pretty, too, so quite a nice place for a birthday celebration!

grazie....franco....grazie!

What a posting will be very useful for our next trip to Venice next May. Many thanks.

franco...what is your opinion of Cips Club? i am contemplating taking the private launch from St Marks to Cips Club to grab some pre/post dinner drinks.

Sorry, russwuf, I've never been there - I'm not a big fan of posh hotel bars. IF I want to splurge and visit such a place once in a while, I go to Hotel Gritti's bar, which has a traditional Venetian flair (and wonderful drinks, for grotesque prices of course). But Cip's is famous for the view, and I don't think the Gritti bar can concur for that matter.
Pre-dinner drinks, however, are a great Venetian tradition: andare all'ombra, literally "go for the shadow". Strange expression, used nowhere else in Italy but in Venice. The story goes that there was once upon a time a popular ambulant aperitif seller on Piazza San Marco, who used to move his cart so to remain always in the shadow (ombra) of the Bell Tower. However - you should take your ombra in a traditional Venetian place, and not in a hotel bar (they're nice for after dinner, when everything else is closed in sleepy Venice). Favourite choices include Al Volto, Ai Rusteghi and La Botte (see above), then the wonderful Cantine di Vino già Schiavi on Rio di S. Trovaso, opposite the church - excellent drinks and even better snacks, justly famous and - surprise, in Italy! - highly creative (but already for decades, so the Venetians have adopted these creations as quasi-traditional). Their most famous sandwich is with tuna-caper-cocoa cream, and strange as it sounds, it's quite certainly the best sandwich in the whole wide world. If you want a less famous ombra but with a view (not the view Cip's boasts, but a very nice view nonetheless), sit down outdoor at the bar on the corner of Campo S. Stefano (officially Campo Francesco Morosini) and Calle delle Botteghe, and watch Venetian life walk by.

grazie franco! wonderful information as always!

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Is there a really good non-alcoholic drink to order in Italy. My DH doesn't drink alcohol and enjoys ordering something local while I sip my wine or spritz.

Thanks for the suggestions

Non-alcoholic, I'm afraid not. Oranges are very good in Italy, so fresh orange juice is usually a delight, but I wouldn't call this a typical Italian drink.

Thanks Franco

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FRANCO, I HOPE YOU SEE THIS
If you have a moment. I will be in Venice on my birthday, Sept 15th 2007 and want to have a nice dinner out. I have seen some nice reviews of a restaurant I would like to ask you about. Are you familiar with the Restaurant Del Giglio, or Al Giglio or is it the same as the one you talk about Vini del Giglio. I am confused by the name. Maybe you can enlighten me This restaurant is in the San Marco area, at Campo Santa Maria del Giglio, between Hotel Ala and Hotel Gritti. I am staying in hotel adjacent to the Museo Furtuny. Perhaps you have another suggestion for me. I like good food, decent portions, maybe a glass of wine at moderate prices

hpeabody, I'm sure Franco can give suggestions, but from your description of the location, Vini del Giglio is not the restaurant you're talking about. It's near the Ca' d'Oro vaporetto stop, nowhere near Hotel Ala. That said, I had wonderful grilled squid at Vini del Giglio in July. Reservations are definitely needed. My favorite, though, is Al Paradiso, Calle de Paradiso in San Polo.

hpeabody, as Susan already told you, there is no similarity between Vini da Gigio (NOT del Giglio) and that restaurant named Giglio that you are mentioning. I don't know it, but wouldn't eat there, especially not if looking for moderate prices - in that part of the city (which used to be the home district of a friend of mine as long as he lived in Venice), there's only one decent (though crazily overpriced) restaurant, Haig's opposite the Gritti. Vini da Gigio, on the other hand, would certainly be a nice idea for your birthday; or any other of those recommended above. Having your gastronomic self-description (good food, decent helpings, moderate prices), I think you would be most happy at La Botte, which is - I think I've repeated it too often already - also my favourite restaurant in Venice.

Thanks for this - we also loved Alle Testiere for a splurge restaurant. We had some of the best seafood we've ever eaten.

Calle del Mondo Novo, Castello 5801; 39-041/522-7220;

First of all, thank you Franco and others, I've gleaned many good restaurant notes and ideas from this thread (to add to the way-too-many that I already had).

We (me and DH) will be in Venice this fall, with some first-time-to-Europe visitors (another couple); I'm the planner. Four dinners (and lunches) in Venice. So far, for dinner, I'm planning on Alle Testiere, Anice Stellato & Vecio Fritolin. Those choices made on the basis of locations out of the tourist fray and/or general excellence. Lunches will probably be in the San Marco area, as 2 of our party will be breaking away from meetings at San Giorgio, and will need to return to them.

So, I'm looking for the just-right restaurant for their first (jet-lagged) night in Venice (and Italy, and Europe) (it will be our 2d night there this trip). Not formal, unusual or expensive, maybe more centrally located (their hotel is near Campo Santa Marina), somewhere easy and fun. Alla Madonna would be good, but they don't take reservations, so that's a NO. Alla Botte is a possibility, but maybe we'll go there for lunch. Osteria di Santa Marina, maybe, but I remember checking it out on our last trip, and it seemed a bit over-priced, though the location is charming. Trattoria da Remigio is another possibility.

Any suggestions?

Lexma, admittedly, I'm feeling a bit ridiculous when recommending it twice a day, but La Botte is of course the top choice - it's more or less around the corner from their hotel, and it's a gorgeous casual place, just right after an exhausting journey. Santa Marina is so formal, I wouldn't want to go there jet-lagged. But I wouldn't want to go there anyway since I don't love to be ripped off (see my July 4th, 8:00 pm posting on this thread: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34967038), so I may not be unprejudiced enough for this choice...
I'm also curious whether you'll like any of the other restaurants (all more famous and more expensive) as much as La Botte...

...ah yes, and Remigio is not bad (overpriced, thus, as usual in Venice), but that's quite a walk from Campo S. Marina!

Thank you, Franco. Maybe then we'll visit la Botte for dinner (or maybe Remigio, but there is that walk). I wasn't sure if it's primarily for cicchetti, but it sounds like the dinners, or full meals, are a great choice too. And I wanted something not so upscale, etc. as our other dinners. Anice Stellato we really like - we've been there several times, and consider the prices reasonable (for Venice!). A restaurant-owner friend in our town can't stop telling us how wonderful Alle Testiere is, so we have to see for ourselves. And Vecio Fritolin, I liked the location and the looks of their website. Though I have a lot of wine bar types of places (probably many recommended by you) on my list; maybe we'll go to those instead of Fritolin. But the first night, I wanted a more restaurant-type place, because I think that'll be an easier experience for the newbies to Venice.

Grazie, Franco.

I will check out La Botte

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Franco, When you replied to Lexma90 you said that Alla Botte was "more or less around the corner from their hotel" Were you referring to the Hotel San Giorgio? That is where I am staying. It would be great if that is the case. If not, do you think it is walkable from the Hotel San Giorgio/Museo Fortuny. Also, do you know of a website that has their menu. The link above is in italian and I did not see what might have a button for a menu. The full name is Osteria alla Botte, right?

Osteria alla Botte, sì, Signor/a. They don't even have a menu at their venue, so they don't of course have one on the web - their menu is (like in all good restaurants) changing daily, and they're simply handwriting it in chalk on a blackboard, that's the menu.
As far as the hotel, Lexma said their friends are staying in a hotel on Campo S. Marina, and from there, it's just a few minutes to La Botte (I don't think Lexma was referring to a hotel S. Giorgio, rather to S. Giorgio island, i.e. the Fondazione Cini, I guess). From Palazzo Fortuny, it's a mid-distance walk, nothing strenuous: from S. Beneto (that's where you are, Venetians are always quoting the nearest church to describe locations), to S. Luca - S. Salvador - S. Bortolomio, and there you are. And of course, everything is walkable in Venice - it's not a large city!

I'm MUCH less familiar with Venice than is Franco, but based on the map I looked at, your Hotel San Giorgio is very close to alla Botte, I would guess about 5-10 min. walk. The hotel my friends are staying at is on Campo Santa Marina, which is also very close to alla Botte. I couldn't locate a menu (in Italian or English) for alla Botte either.

Yes, indeed, a 6 or 7 minutes walk for me, 12 minutes for someone who is less acquainted with the city. From S. Marina, it's even nearer, thus, and easier to find.

Ooooh, Thank you both so much. That was very helpful. I am very much looking forward to my visit to Venice

thanks Franco ... I have so enjoyed reading your posts and the wealth of info you have shared. We will be heading to Venice (our first trip to Italy) in a few weeks and I am soaking up lots of good ideas for our trip. I am usually one to plan every detail before we leave but was unable for this trip so we're going to sort of wing it. Hoping we can read a little and just walk around and chose things as we see. That said, for our anniversary (the reason for the trip) I would like to plan the dinner ahead just to prevent an evening spoiling experience. My husband and I appreciate good food & wine, but atmosphere is just as important to us at times. Looking for a good view, quaint cove, sweet music, or something a little special but not bank-breaking. Of your recommendations is there one that has a stand-out atmosphere? Can you please advise? Also any "after-dinner" spots for wine and maybe music? Thanks so much.

Update after a recent visit: upon warm recommendation by a Venetian friend, I've tried a new place: Antico Giardinetto (S. Croce 2253, Calle dei Morti). Well, while that friend is a woman of impeccable taste in fashion matters, I guess I won't follow her gastronomic recommendations again... food eager to hide every trace of taste, you wouldn't know whether you're eating fish or polystyrene - shudder! The prices are nevertheless considerable, of course, after all, this is Venice. But certainly a pretty and somewhat fancy place...
Another evening in S. Croce, another story: Capitan Uncino (see above), the service grunchy as always, the place not fancy at all, but the kitchen better than ever. Really delicious food, this time!

baemel, in atmospheric respect, of all the recommendations above, Locanda Cipriani certainly has no competition. The food is not memorable, but good enough not to spoil your evening, and the place, and the boat trip to and from Torcello, are really among the most special Venice & lagoon experiences. Another pretty and nice place (certainly not with the views the trip to Torcello boasts!) is Vini da Gigio, which may be more of a place where foodies would want to celebrate an anniversary. If you happen to have a car, consider Villa Condulmer on the mainland, that's certainly the best choice: great food, great location, and reasonable prices.

Locanda Cipriani sounds very interesting. thanks very much for the info.

do they keep the terrace/garden tables open in early October? we'd love to dine outside... I assume we need reservations?

do you know anything about what food options are at Christmas time in Venice? We have been to Venice before,staying again on Dorsoduro ,understand much is closed...

Franco, I'm so happy that you recommend winter as a fine time to visit Venice! As the time of our visit draws nearer (January 11-24, 2008), I'm again asking for your always helpful advice on food preparation. Please tell me about castraure and cime di rapa artichokes. The only artichokes I know are the large ones (mostly from California) which we stuff, or usually, boil, then dip the bottom of the leaves in melted butter and scrape the flesh off on our teeth. Also, which fish am I likely to find at the Rialto and what best method of preparation? I'm looking forward to a new experience--frittelle--and will certainly try Maria Boscolo's. Thank you in advance for your time and helpful response.

First of all, sorry to take so long to reply, I've been – well, in Venice, of course.

dodgergoes, sorry, I've never been to Venice for Christmas. But that's one of those easy-to-solve problems: just call all the restaurants where you'd like to dine, and ask them - nobody knows better than they do!

roamer - cooking in January! Wonderful season on the Rialto market, especially for all those gorgeous bitter vegetables they're having in Italy! As far as castraure artichokes, my one and only recipe (I think I told you once that I'm not a big castraure buff, but prepared this way, yes I do love them) has already been on this thread for a while, with special dedication to you - see above, my post of Dec. 21st, 2006.
As far as cime di rapa, these are NO artichokes - rather, turnip tops, if you happen to ever have seen or eaten such a thing. In fact, it's a variety of its own that develops only "tops" (i.e. leaves) and almost no turnips; its closest relatives are broccoli, that's why they're being called, very confusingly, broccoletti in some regions of Italy (not in Venice). They consist of leaves, stems, and tiny broccoli-like umbels (appunto, i broccoletti); all three are edible and delicious, but the stems (the thicker ones) need to be peeled, which is a little laborious, but absolutely rewarding. Delicious on pasta; here come my favourite cime di rapa recipes (both not Venetian, but Venice is a perfect place to prepare them – cime di rapa are excellent there; both for 400 grams/14 oz. pasta):
1. the classic recipe from the Puglia region: orecchiette con cime di rapa
Wash, clean and chop 17.5 oz. cime di rapa. Heat PLENTY of salted water, drop the orecchiette in, and after 5 or 6 minutes ADD the cime di rapa (very unusual to cook pasta and vegetables together!). Drain as soon as the pasta is al dente. In the meantime, gently (!) fry a clove of garlic (not chopped; discard before serving) and two chopped anchovy fillets in 0.1 pt. olive oil. Pour over drained pasta/vegetables mixture and serve.
2. less rustic version: with cime di rapa and pine nuts
Clean and wash 26.5 oz. cime di rapa. Wet as they are, put them into a pot, cover, blanch the vegetables (5 to 8 minutes should be enough). Let cool, chop coarsely, salt and pepper. Cook the pasta (spaghetti, linguine, trenette or the like) al dente (actually, a little less than al dente). In the meantime, softly heat 4 tablespoons olive oil with 2 cloves of garlic and 1 small hot pepper (all chopped), and separately roast 3.5 oz. pine nuts without oil at lowest heat. Add the drained pasta to the garlic-chili oil, add the cime di rapa, shortly heat everything together. Sprinkle with the pine nuts.

Sorry again, but typing recipes is somewhat strenuous - I have many more for you, but will add them by and by over the next few days!

Franco welcome back! You have just returned and already I have learned something new! I always thought that cima de rape was synonymous with rapini, which is the name I often use for broccoli rape.

Is the vegetable ingredient in the famous dish of orechiette with "broccoli rape" and sausage, (which I think of as Puglian(??)) actually cima de rape???

Sorry this is so poorly worded but I think you will understand my question...

Also, in the past few months (since last summer) I have discovered the joys of cooking with baby artichokes and at the moment one of my favorite dishes is braised baby artichokes with shrimp and lemon peel. Sometimes I throw in some tiny fingerling or new potatoes..the artichokes are gone from our farmers markets now, but if you can get them, this is a supremely easy dish...I also throw in some peperoncino (or smoked paprika)...

sorry I got way off the topic here..

ek, if you're meaning this one: http://www.jupiterimages.com/popup2.aspx?navigationSubType=itemdetails&itemID=23230690, then yes, it's broccoli rape. I must say the term is unfamiliar with me, I know them as turnip tops in English, which would seem synonymous with broccoli rape (see http://www.babbonyc.com/in-turniptops.html - from the website of a restaurant that you might know, ek!), but then, I don't know them in English at all - I've actually never seen them anywhere than in Italy!

Hi, Franco-

you say that you've never been in Venice at christmas - how about Easter - which is when we'll be there?

anything special to look out for, food-wise?

regards, ann

Yes, Franco! The vegetable in the first photo is the one I referred to..I call it either rapini or broccoli rape..many people here (NYC) call it broccoli rabe.

But in reading the Babbo description, this is looks to be a different vegetable...more like the greens which grow at the top of our turnips..and these are not as easy to find. We call them turnip greens and they are popular in our southern states..

Rape is one of my favorite vegetables and I make it very often. In fact I was dismayed that I did not see any in the farmer's market this morning...I suspect that the season may be past and I will have to buy them in the supermarket (where they arrive from the west coast, or Mexico). My new favorite use (besides just cooking it with garlic and perhaps, adding currants or raisins) is to grill some good bread with smoked scamorza and top this with boiled broccoli rape and dried red pepper flakes warmed in oiol.... it does not sound interesting but it is a very tasty snack..somehow the bitter green compliments the smoked cheese..I need to move this discussion to the Italian food thread..sorry for hijacking Venice here..

ek, this problem seems too difficult to definitely solve. I've done some research for Latin names (hoping they should be non-ambiguous - HAH!)... Italians call their cime di rapa, in Latin brassica rapa var. cymosa or brassica campestris var. cymosa; broccoli rabe is being translated into Latin as brassica ruvo, and yet it seems to be the same vegetable... and the same as turnip tops, at least for some people in some regions. No, cime di rapa have definitely no subsurface turnips (or none to speak of) - they're a variety that grows only leafs and umbels, so if for you, turnip tops are the greens of "real" turnips, this is not what cime di rapa means. This site (British), however, calls it turnip tops, and it's definitely cime di rapa (you would say broccoli rabe, true?): http://www.gonegardening.com/xq/asp/dept_id.404111/pf_id.2201844/referer./qx/gg_shop/product.htm
On the other hand, would you perhaps say these are turnip tops? http://70.249.97.241/rapini.htm ... The site says broccoli rabe, however...
In any case, I think you're doing well with what you're calling broccoli rabe.

annhig, I beg your patience. Recipe translating is time-consuming, and you still have some time left until Easter - check again, and I promise to leave some recipes for you, as well. First comes roamer, however, since she's already travelling in January...

Thank you, Franco, for your time and efforts! I will certainly try the orichette with-what I call-broccoli rabe. I look forward to more recipes when you have time. Why don't you help us all and publish a cookbook with Italian--especially Venetian--recipes?

Hi Franco,,

that's great - mille grazie.

I'm happy to wait and learn from what you suggest for Roamer.

regards, ann

Franco: The second photo depicts the vegetable that I know. The UK site vegetable appears to have too many florets (proper word?).. I will keep on the trail here and see if we can sort this out...

Anyway, those greens are delicious!!!

ek, yes, it has many, and big “florets” (what I called umbels). Either a very rich variety, or a photo meant to be promotionally effective. Either way, it’s the right vegetable, even though “normal” cime di rapa have far less florets.

roamer, what is to become my “Venetian cookbook” is actually this thread! – I hope that’s satisfying, as well. Today, we’re going on with radicchio; one of my two favourite vegetables. There has already been a major radicchio discussion on our general Italian food thread, so this time, let me suffice it to say: if you can envision cooking a delicious, sweet jam with just a hint of tart with the radicchio you’re eating, then it’s really radicchio; if radicchio jam seems inconceivable, then you’re eating the stuff they seem to produce for export only, since they wouldn’t even touch it in the Veneto. Radicchio is not an Italian vegetable, it’s a Veneto vegetable – the best quality isn’t to be found anywhere but there. And it’s a pure winter vegetable; the colder the weather is, the better. Radicchio in spring, summer and autumn? See above: stuff for the rest of the world, where they have no clue about radicchio (only exception: frozen radicchio – yes, you can freeze COOKED radicchio, and eat it all year round). Of course, Venice in winter is the perfect place to prepare radicchio; of the five varieties to be found there, two are the real pleasure: tardivo di Treviso (this is what made radicchio famous!), and Castelfranco. I strongly advise against sampling the three others, Verona, precoce di Treviso, and worst of all, Chioggia. Enjoy, roamer!!
First comes my latest addition to my radicchio repertory: salad of warm beans and radicchio. You need white beans; preferably fresh ones (there was a particularly delicious variety available when I was in Venice recently), 2 lbs. before hulling; but also dry beans are of course acceptable (6 oz., soak overnight). Cook beans in water WITHOUT salt. In the meantime, clean 1 lb. of radicchio, cut into stripes. Soak in cold water for a few minutes, drain and dry. Mix with beans as soon as they’re done. Add salt, your very best olive oil, a dash of red wine vinegar, and plenty of freshly ground black pepper. This is sounding so simple that I didn’t prepare it for quite a long time (I had got this recipe years ago)… what a mistake! It’s delicious beyond description. I had it with salsicce al prosecco, fresh sausages with prosecco in the meat, a terrific specialty of the butcher on Ruga dei Spezieri, behind the Rialto market.
A long-time favourite is gnocchi al radicchio: this time, we’re starting with 0.5 lbs. radicchio tardivo di Treviso, cut into stripes again. Chop one onion and 1.8 oz. pancetta (a kind of unsmoked bacon), gently fry in 2 large tablespoons of butter. Add radicchio stripes. Add 0.25 pt. prosecco, and 0.3 pt. liquid cream. Let simmer for five minutes. Add 4 tablespoons of grated parmesan or asiago cheese, salt, pepper and nutmeg. Pour over gnocchi; while I, of course, prefer home-made gnocchi, this is a problem in Venice since they have rarely any good potatoes there, so you might want to buy fresh gnocchi at any grocery store. If you happen to find floury Dutch potatoes (Bintje e.g., sometimes available on the Rialto market), make the gnocchi yourself: 2.2 lbs. potatoes (peel BEFORE cooking), salt, 1 egg, 5.3 oz. flour.
Excellent, as well, is risotto al radicchio. Clean and chop 10 oz. radicchio, mince a small onion and two cloves of garlic. Sauté everything in 1.5 tablespoons butter, add 0.25 pt. dry red wine, let evaporate, add 12 oz. risotto rice (in Venice, the classic variety has to be Vialone Nano!, but of course, Carnaroli would be excellent, as well) and cook with light beef broth, salt and pepper as you are used to do it (risotto cooking is a matter of beliefs – every cook sticks to his/her own method!). In the end, add again 1.5 tablespoons butter, and some grated parmesan. Variations: you could also use half butter, half olive oil for sautéing the vegetables. You could use some pancetta instead of the garlic. You could add five or six crushed juniper berries to the soffritto. You could sprinkle the risotto with parsley before serving.
And maybe my favourite Venetian radicchio recipe is coda di rospo al vino rosso con radicchio – monkfish with red wine sauce, very unusual, very delicious! Clean 14 oz. radicchio di Castelfranco, cut into quarters, separate leaves. Mince one onion. Sprinkle 1.3 lbs. monkfish steaks (wonderful quality on the Rialto market!) with one tablespoon lemon juice, salt and pepper. Blanch radicchio in salted water (for 2 minutes), drain and quench. Heat 2 tablespoons olive oil, sauté onion, add 0.25 pt. dry red (!) wine, bring to a boil, add radicchio, salt and pepper, let simmer for a few minutes. Separately, heat 2 more tablespoons olive oil (or maybe more), gently fry monkfish steaks (2 or 3 minutes on each side), serve on radicchio bed with fried polenta slices, or simply with bread.

Franco: This is GROSS but it is also the truth:

There is saliva on my keyboard!

Your cookbook will be a best-seller!

Franco-
Thank you so much for your recipes. I know it is time consuming for you to translate and enter your recipes, and I, and as well as others on this thread, are very appreciative.
One question--are the different varieties of radicchio identifed in the market? As I remember the Rialto, there aren't indications--one is just supposed to know which is which! Can you provide clues to identify the tardivo di Treviso and the Castelfranco? Again, sorry to cause more work for you, but your efforts are much appreciated! My mouth is watering already!

I just found an article about radicchio in the January 2008 Bon Appetit magazine. It says "Trevisio is a milder variety that's elongated like Belgian endive. Two rarer types are particularly appealing: Tardivo--which looks like a flower drawn by Dr. Seuss--is crisp and flavorful, and the rosette-shaped Castelfranco is tender and mild." I think that what the article calls Tardivo must be the "tardivo di Treviso" that you
use in your recipes?
The article has recipes for Radicchio Salad with Oranges and Olives, Sausages with Caramelized Red Onions and Radicchio, and Penne with Radicchio, Spinach and Bacon. The only radicchio available in the markets here is Chioggia--can't wait to get to "Radicchio Heaven" in Venice in January to taste the other varieties!

roamer, yes, tardivo is what it's usually "nicknamed"; "tardivo di Treviso" is the official name (it's an IGT, a protected indication of origin). Look here - this site http://www.ortofruttabaldan.it/verdura/Radicchio.htm shows pictures of all five varieties (scroll down, please), and even of a sixth that I've never heard of, as well.

Hold on - more recipes to follow before you leave!

franco, that site is perfect--thank you so much! Now I won't have trouble identifying the different vaieties. Castelfranco looks too pretty to eat, though! I will look forward to more recipes. Meantime, Buon Natale!

The same is true for tardivo - extraordinarily pretty, as well! Here is a nicer picture: http://www.producehunter.com/productdisplay.asp?ID=2184

Much nicer picture of tardivo--now can't wait to taste these varieties!

franco-Thank you for all your helpful information. We are not going back to Italy until June 09,but I love to start researching ahead of time. We have a week at Le Barchesse Di Villa Corner in Cavasagra di Vedelago. We were in No. Italy in the 80's and took a day trip to Venice. While it was one of my favorite cities it was also one of the worst meals I had so I wrote down the places you reccomended outside of Venice.I will look forward from time to time to get any other ideas for Will look forward to any other food information in the future-Chris

Franco--

You helped so much with my apartment questions for Rome, and now I'm looking at the Venice poriton of our trip. I've read this thread with interest and have copied down lots of info. We'll have an apartment in Venice in the beginning of January and are fish and seafood lovers, so we'll want to try some of those things from the markets. Do you have any suggestions for Venetian fish/seafood and vegetable specialities available at this time of year? Do any of the markets also have vendors that have prepared certain dishes one can take back and rewarm? And, finally, other than the places you mentioned at the very beginning of this thread, where can we have a good inexpensive meal, nothing fancy just good? Thanks again. You are a font of knowledge.

Thank you both for your nice comments.
BeniciaChris, hold on, I'm going to add another marvellous place out of Venice soon - I just want to finish those January recipes first!
julies - restaurants other than those already mentioned here, sorry I have none for you. But there are some throughout this thread, not just at the beginning. And as far as January recipes, please read my most recent posts, they're full of them. Please keep reading - there's more to follow, and I'll say also something on seafood.

Happy holidays to everybody!

The next installment is on my second favourite vegetable: cardoons; another winter vegetable. In Venice, they’re having particularly delicious cardoons. Cardoons, for who doesn’t know them, are close relatives of artichokes; much more delicious; and the ultimate cleaning nightmare. We had a discussion about artichoke cleaning on our general Italian food thread; well, if you think artichokes are tough to clean, it’s a walk in the park compared with cardoons. Disposable rubber gloves are obligatory, or your hands will be dark-brown for a week. You have to peel them thoroughly from the leaves and all the fibrous parts, every single stalk. To make things worse, the smaller they are (i.e. the leaner the stalks), the better. (Buy cardoni nostrani – i.e. those from the Veneto region, which are VERY lean.) It’s kitchen work you won’t forget – but then, you won’t forget the taste, either. One of the most delicious tastes on this planet…
A general remark: I’ve decided to give Italian measures from now on – after all, these recipes are meant to be prepared in Venice, and it doesn’t in fact make sense to give Angloamerican measures, though I always did till now; in Venice, it will be harder to re-convert them into Italian measures than converting them into what you are used to when and if you are preparing them at home (which is, in many cases, not recommended, as you know, since the ingredient quality will simply not be the same). Italy has the metric system, of course; but its most common kitchen measure is an Italian specialty, I’ve never encountered it anywhere else: the name is etto (one etto, two or more etti, abbreviation hg), which translates into 100 grammes (abbreviation g), for the rest of continental Europe. This is what you have to order when shopping – only etti and kilograms (abbreviated kg) are common in everyday life in Italy!
Ok, back to cardoons. Cardoons are always cut into pieces before cooking, and the water used for cooking them must ALWAYS be poured away – uncooked cardoons are INCREDIBLY bitter (you’ll pour the bitter taste away with the water). The three recipes I have to offer are not Venetian, I’m sorry – but I don’t simply know what Venetians are doing with their great cardoons. I’ve never seen a Venetian cardoon recipe, and never seen cardoons on a Venetian restaurant menu. Never mind – since their cardoons are so wonderful, Venice is the right place for these dishes (the first is from Umbria, the second from Liguria, the third from the Abruzzo region). They’re all terrific!
Gobbi in parmigiana (gobbo, cardo or cardone are the Italian words for cardoons – in Venice, they say cardo; parmigiana is an Italian standard preparation with tomatoes and parmesan involved)
Cut the cleaned cardoon in pieces as long as a finger, throw them into boiling salted water, drain as soon as they are al dente. Let cool. Coat with flour, then with egg, and fry in olive oil. Serve with a ragù made from (thinking of a big cardoon of perhaps 1.2 kg) 2 hg minced beef, 3 chicken livers and 3 chicken hearts, one small salsiccia (a fresh sausage), and 2.5 hg fresh tomatoes (yes, you can buy tomatoes even in winter in Venice – they’ll still be tastier than what most non-Italians are getting in summer), starting with olive oil, and plus salt & pepper, of course. Layers of fried cardoons and ragù (each ragù layer sprinkled with grated parmesan) are arranged in an oven-proof dish, and bake in a hot oven for 30 minutes.
Cardi al tegame (i.e. in the clay pot)
Cook cardoon pieces (smaller pieces than for the recipe before, of a cardoon that had about 1 kg before cleaning) in boiling water, drain. Melt 50 g butter in a terracotta pot, add cardoon pieces, 3.5 hg salsiccia (peel it and mash the sausage meat with a fork) and 60 g grated parmesan, salt, cover and let simmer for 40 minutes.
Cardone in brodo con fegato di gallina (with broth and chicken liver)
Cut a 1 kg cleaned cardoon into small pieces (a finger’s breadth) and put into cold water for an hour, then boil & drain as usual. In your terracotta pot, fry 2 chopped chicken livers in olive oil, salt. (Believe it or not, also chicken livers are of unusual quality in Venice. I’ve never sampled better ones.) Add the cardoon pieces, 2 big ladles of chicken broth and a small ladle of veal ragù (of course, prepared with tomatoes and olive oil, maybe starting with frying a little quantity of onion or scallop). Let cook for five minutes, let cool for a moment, add 2 raw eggs and grated pecorino. Bake in a hot oven for ten minutes. Don’t be mystified by the "brodo" in the recipe’s name – this is not a soup, it’s a casserole.

Franco, thank you so much for your time and energy in translating these recipes. I have learned so much from your posts! I have heard of cardoons, but never seen any (that I know of). Now I will certainly seek them in the market in Venice. I did find a picture on the internet, so I know what to look for. I knew about the etto/etti measurement, but did not know exactly how many grams, or that the abbreviation is hg. Very helpful! We will be in Venice one week from tomorrow--can't wait!

p.s. We have had fegato alla Veneziana in restaurants several times and found it to be delicious. Now I must try the chicken livers. Would it be "fegato di pollo" in Italian?

Since chicken livers are so small, they're usually called fegatini di pollo. Try the wonderful butcher on Calle dei Spezieri.
Actually, I wanted to add something on seafood for you, as well, but we're running out of time. January is a marvellous month for fresh seafood - look out for what I've already mentioned above! It should be easy to find gò now, some moeche, latti di seppia, mazzancolle (do try that wonderful simple recipe given above with lardo di colonnata) - and canestrelli. This is a new ingredient to this thread - sort of small scallops, but tastier, and IMO more delicious than their famous "big brothers". You can substitute them for any scallop or clam recipe, they're truly delicious. Important: clean them like oysters - i.e. open them before cooking, with a knife (much much easier and less dangerous than with oysters!). Cut away all the grey parts, and wash the rest thoroughly - they're FULL of sand!
Enjoy Venice, and enjoy cooking, and please don't fail to report back on your culinary achievements.

Thank you, Franco, for all of the information you have provided--more than enough for cooking during the two weeks we will be in Venice! I have all of your fish recipes from above and will definitely look for canestrelli. I will report on my culinary adventures when we return. Arrivederch for awhile!

I must finally take time to add all due updates after my last visit. Chris, are you listening? Another great recommendation for dining outside Venice - a thousand times better than almost any place in town: Al Bacaro in Noventa di Piave! (No website.) Reservation is obligatory: call 0421-658282. Closed Tuesday evening and Wednesday. This is the best place I know to sample the traditional Veneto cuisine - Veneto, not Venice! Which means hardly any seafood here; this is inland cooking. The place is a little confusing for newbies - no written menu, and there are two kinds of eating here: either you choose the standard order of primo and secondo piatto (with an antipasto, if you like) - then they'll tell you by word of mouth what the choices are. Or you take the "menu di antipasti" - a menu of "starters" only, though those so called starters are large to huge helpings here. In this case, they don't tell you anything, but just start carrying gorgeous food to your table, whatever they have ready, and they won't stop before you make clear that you're going burst NOW. (Stop them a little before and leave space for their wonderful cakes.) Terrific quality, terrific atmosphere (the place is always packed with happy eaters), heartily recommended.

Regularly over the last weeks, people who wanted to contact me opened new threads and addressed me in the title, like "Franco (and others), ... question, please". I hope I've noticed all of them, but nevertheless, this is a little hazardous since I'm not such a diligent forum reader - rather the lazy type. Very often, I'm just checking the threads on which I've already posted before...
So if you want my opinion, please post your question on "my" appropriate thread (all the links are above, near the top); or, if you open a new thread for your question hoping that this way, more others might weigh in, then please post a short notice or a link to your question on "my" thread as well to prevent me from overlooking it. Thanks!

Thank you Franco for the information-I have jotted the information down in my notebook. Also I didn't thank you for letting me know about my timeshare. In the printout it says very little English spoken at this resort. It looks nice and quiet. We will be in a wonderful area to pop into. I love little towns.Again Thanks Chris

Hello Franco,

Thank you for all the wonderful information, I am busy re-reading for my trip in March.

I'm traveling alone this time and was hoping you could suggest good places for casual dinners or just having a glass of wine alone. This is my third trip to Venice and I will be there for 6 days. My husband has been with me before and I am going to miss the companionship at dinner. Any other ideas for passing the evenings on my own?

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a good place to be alone, but if I think of eating or having a drink in my hometown then there are places I definitely feel more comfortable in alone above others.

I'm hoping to buy some radichio seeds while I am there, do you have any idea where I could buy them?

I'm also hoping to buy different things on this trip. Rather than the typical tourist stuff I'd like to get gadgets for my kitchen (ie: those wooden rolling pins with ravioli shapes on), anything unusual, so if anyone knows of good places to find the kind of everyday stuff venicians buy I'd be most grateful.

I know this isn't food related but I am also looking to buy glass seed beads. I bought lots of big Murano beads previously but only managed to find a few bags of seed beads and would love to get more this time.

Thanks again for a great thread.

Mischka, thanks much for the accolade. Well, solo dining is certainly not too amusing; but having dined solo quite often myself in Venice, I assure you it's a lesser problem if you only speak Italian. Italians will rarely leave a solo diner completely solo; innkeepers and waiters will cheat with you a little, and so will probably the diners next table.
Of my recommendations on this thread, a place to avoid when eating alone is Al Bacco - most of their primi are only available for two!! And Capitan Uncino is also not the best choice since the people working there (owners and waiters alike) are so terribly grumpy, they're not going to speak one word with you.
La Botte, once again, is certainly the most commendable place, as it's always packed with merry people; and of the wine bars, the Cantine di Vino già Schiavi are an excellent choice for single visitors, as well as Al Volto, where I always found the barkeepers very friendly and communicative. If you want to splurge, I recommend the bar of the Gritti over that of the Europa & Regina (these are the two best hotel bars in Venice), as far as affable waiters - at these hotel bars, you could probably even have a chat in English.

As far as radicchio seeds, there is a large florist in the Frezzeria - Calle dei Fuseri neighbourhood (I don't recall the precise location) that has all kinds of seeds... BUT: don't expect to get proper radicchio. It definitely needs the specific climate and soil of the Veneto region. Nowhere else will the results be satisfying, and mostly not even edible!

Venice is not big on casalinghi... shudder to hear that the best place to go is a huge shopping center on the mainland, in Marghera - not quite the place where you'll want to spend some hours of your holiday! Btw, I prefer stamps to make ravioli, like those: http://www.tncasalinghi.com/html/uk/products_all.htm (a simple version on top of the page, art. 121, but scroll down to art. 135-139-140 for the "real" thing).
And Murano glass, sorry, that's definitely not my cup of tea.

Thanks Franco, I have printed your advice with a little map of how to get to La Botte etc. (Thanks to Google maps, I love them)

Thanks too for the advice about the radicchio, I will buy the seeds and give it a try and hope for the best. We are members of our local Italian Club where I always eat radicchio salads, it's not the same as in Venice but it's better than nothing. I am telling myself that our climate is similar, as we live next to the sea so I will be able to grow it. We will wait and see.

Thanks for the link for the casalinghi, at least now I know the correct name. You’re right, I don’t think I would want to give up valuable time in Venice to go off to a shopping center so I will just keep my eyes open in Venice and maybe I will get lucky and find what I am looking for. The stamps look like a very good idea. My husband and I were extremely lucky to have a great time at Jamie Oliver’s Fifteen Restaurant last September, we were given bar stools to sit on next to the pasta making table and we sipped wine while watching them make ravioli. They only used pastry wheels for cutting out squares (just checked my photos to make sure). I found other good shopping ideas on your link, thanks.

Anyone else like to chip in with good ideas?

Three important updates after a recent visit to Venice:
1. Osteria alla Botte has changed character a bit. The first room is no more wine bar where crowds are standing with their glasses; thus, no more crowds outside in the lane, as well - the first room has been integrated into the dining/restaurant area! Which has certainly rendered this place more quiet, and less funny. BUT: the gorgeous food is still the same, and so are the prices. AND: they're staying open longer in the evening - the kitchen will prepare food until 10 pm now, or 10.30 if there are many customers.
2. Finally, Venice is growing adult as far as late dining - there is a new restaurant that solves the severe problems of anybody arriving in town late in the evening! Ristorante Centrale caters to hungry tourists until 2 am!!! It's located on Piscina Frezzeria, in San Marco (see http://www.centrale-lounge.com/en/lounge_restaurants.htm). The prices are incredibly bold, and I would and will never eat there, but nevertheless, this is an important improvement in a city with so many tourists (many of whom do actually arrive late, and had to starve on their first evening until now).
3. A very, very nice new wine bar has opened in Campo del Remer near the main post office, appropriately called "Remer". They're also serving delicious-looking cold food (I didn't try yet) like salami, prosciutto and so on in huge helpings, and they're staying open until late (around midnight, I guess). Campo del Remer is one of those hidden jewels Venice is full of, and tourists never find them... a terrific little place directly on Canal Grande, but tucked away in a corner near Rialto Bridge, and not easy to find, fortunately.

bookmarking

I posted this question in a separate thread but it was suggested I also add it to this one.
I'm looking for a place for a 50th birthday dinner for around 18 people in Venice. We're hoping for something not too formal but with good food and a lively atmosphere. We're open to having it in a restaurant or private space. Any suggestions are welcome.

Sequess, we ate at Trattoria Alla Rivetta, recommended by our hotel for its fish menu. It’s at Ponte S. Provolo 4625. It was nice, with a lot of locals and others lining up to eat there. Our meal was 58.24EUR, for two fish entrees, and a half-liter of house wine. This was two years ago.

The room we ate in would probably serve 18.

Maybe Franco can comment on it?

PeaceOut, I can't comment on La Rivetta since I don't know it. This is an area of Venice where I don't normally eat: far too touristy and thus, far too risky IMO. Of course, if you've liked the food, I bow to the one who's been there. What does still deter me, though, is the price, which is definitely exaggerated for just two antipasti and half a liter of wine. Which shouldn't cost more than 33 Euros.

sequess, La Botte very often caters to groups as large as yours. However, all of you should be fine being short of space if you decide to celebrate your birthday there - it's really a small place, and those large groups (typically of locals) that I regularly see there are sitting more on than next to each other. Personally, I'd choose Vini da Gigio; or, if you are there in summer and want to sit in a beautiful garden, Al Bacco (see above for details). To put it more precisely, I'd choose one of those two if I really wanted to celebrate my birthday in Venice. But if I wanted to have a really unforgettable meal, and the informal & lively atmosphere you were asking for, I'd go to Noventa di Piave and eat there at the Bacaro (details, once again, above). However you decide, remember to book early.

Thank you for the information. I have not been able to access alla Botte's website. Vini da Gigio looks promising.
Thanks again

Franco, not two antipasti. I meant two main dishes with vegetables, which I referred to as "entrees".

The food was good. The atmosphere was better.

Thanks for your reply.

bookmarking

Just a quick note to tell that - after a long and unexpected absence for reasons of work - I'm back on Fodor's.

Definitely bookmarking!

Try La Bitta, Calle Lunga San Barnaba. We ate there twice, about two weeks ago. 80 Euro for two.

Hi Franco,
You have been so helpful with dining and food suggestions for Venice for our last trips - thank you. We are returning to Venice on May 16 for 10 days, and I wonder if you have any new suggestions for recipes - fish, produce - available during that time? As before, I appreciate your helpful advice.

Hello roamer, please allow for a few days - next week, I'll certainly have something for you!