franco,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, AND,... thank you!!

Franco: This is wonderful! Thank you so much for taking the time. Here is a seafood place someone just recommended to me and I am wondering if you know it or would like to comment:

Al Vecio Bragoso, Strada Nuova/SS Apostoli, Cannareggio.

franco, thank you! I wish I had this a year ago but hope to make good use of it in the future!!

Franco,

Your efforts are greatly appreciated!

ek - I've never heard of Al Vecio Bragoso, sorry. The one of us who comes to Venice next time should perhaps try it and report here accordingly!

TTT

Good idea, Franco! Or maybe we can even meet there one day! Thanks again for all of your help, don't work too hard, and come back to us soon!

I thought I’d provide one final service: linking all “Franco’s favourite…” threads to each other, in order to make them more easily accessible to future users:

Venice:
accomodation: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34791672
sightseeing & transportation: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34791890

Rome:
where to stay: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792021
food & restaurants http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792415
sightseeing: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792538

Umbria: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34792839

In case that anybody hesitates to ask just because of my currently scarce presence on Fodor’s, I’d like to repeat that if you’d like me to answer any questions related to the topic of this thread, just post them here – I’m checking rarely, but regularly, but only my “own” threads due to work pressure.

ttt

Ho fame

Thanks! We will be in Venice in June so this is a big help.

I dined at Al Vecio Bragoso in September 2005 and quite liked it, well enough to return for lunch later that same week. I can't remember exactly what I had either time apart from the dessert, which was some sort of traditional cake related to one of the other communities in the lagoon. Very good.

Though there's no way of comparing my taste to Franco's directly, I have been to several of the restaurants he mentions and agree that they serve reasonable food.

Ae Oche: very good pizza as well as traditional dishes like liver with polenta on my visit with my children several years ago, and at the time had the distinction of an entirely "no smoking" side to the restaurant (which was, interestingly, mostly Italian families with children on our visit). This is no longer an issue, as there's no smoking whatsoever in restaurants in Italy now, but at the time was nice.

La Zucca: Another place I liked so well that I returned within the same week, also the visit several years ago with my children. Not just vegetarian, by the way, but vegetables prominent on the menu. Be sure to book ahead, either the day before or the day of.

Al Nono Risorto: I happened on this place one afternoon and picked it for a later return based largely on the vibe and absence of any signage other that Italian. Turns out they host a local chess club, so my 12 year old son got to play (quite well) with some of the locals. Food fine.

Franco - wonderful recommendation about Osteria La Botte, though it took 3 tries to finally manage a visit while they were open The staff seemed a bit confused about our trip back to the dining room, as we had this space all to ourselves for the duration of our meal. The real action was in front, mostly a happy-hour kind of conflagration at the time we visited (7-ish?), with a younger crowd eating ciccheti and drinking wine and catching up with one-another. The staff took very good care of us, however, and the food was excellent... antipasti of insalata caprese, and polipo - and spaghetti al vongole. mmmmmm!

ronin - I'm glad you've enjoyed your meal at La Botte! If you come a little later, at the usual Venetian dinner time around 8-8.30, also the dining room will be cramped, and it's always wise to reserve, unless you want to be part of the happy crowd in the front room while waiting for a table (which is not the worst solution, IMO!).

Franco! Glad you're back to top this thread. I seem to always have a hit or miss experience with dining in Venice, and know this will help alleviate that possibility in the future.

franco:
Thank you so much for your most helpful posts! The first time we were in Venice, we were in a hotel for 3 days--knew we had to come back to an apartment--which we did last October for 1 week--now we are returning to the same apartment for 2 weeks this October. I love to cook, and I do appreciate the gorgeous markets. I couldn't believe the artichoke bottoms--what a luxury! I am unfamiliar with most of the seafood and felt intimidated by the huge selection. So if your time permits, could you please "...go on with Venetian recipes..." or recommend a cookbook that would help me use the seafood and produce so readily available?
We mostly eat in, but we did discover La Zucca and thorougly enjoyed it. Thank you again!

Just returned from Italy and France. al Paradiso in San Polo (Calle del Paradiso) was recommended to us by the cousin of a close friend. The cousin is a native Venetian and his family always eat there when they have guests to treat. It doesn't have a tourist menu, though it is near the Rialto. The meal was excellent, prices moderate and the service was very kind. Hope we can go back someday!

roamer - I'm happy to oblige (this weekend, I'm taking a downtime from my work!). For a first start, I'm trying to limit myself to recipes that you can prepare in October (but if you or anybody else would like to get recipes for other seasons as well, don't hesitate to ask - cooking is my passion!). October is not the very best season, I must say - the artichokes' season will long be over, but for the really good radicchio types (tardivo di Treviso and Castelfrano), it will still be too early - they're arriving by mid-November. And as far as fish and seafood, spring is usually the best season...
But never mind - there is still plenty to cook! First of all, we'll prepare one of the foremost Venetian specialties: baccalà mantecato, mash of cured cod (easily available everywhere, but NO restaurant is catering it in really good quality, not even La Botte, strange enough). In some shops besides (not on!) the fish market, you'll find cured (i.e. salted) cod already soaked - or at least, you can ask them to prepare it for two days later or so (that's the minimum time for soaking cured cod). Cook the drained cod in milk until tender (don't add salt, obviously - it's already salted!). Take it out of the milk, mash it with a fork. Generously add excellent olive oil: get yourself a bottle from Casa del Parmigiano, the best delicatessen shop of Venice, located on the way from S. Giacomo di Rialto, the small church behind the bridge, to the fruit & vegetable market - it's on the left side, and everyone knows it, should you have problems; they've two qualities, both are gorgeous: a more delicate Tuscan and a very, very strong Apulian oil. For baccalà mantecato, I'd prefer the Tuscan oil. Add SOME of the milk in which you've cooked the cod (attention, it's salty!). Add a small quantity of garlic, and some parsley, both chopped, of course, and if necessary (likely not!), some salt. Eat with fresh white bread as a starter. (Bread is not always very good in Venice. I recommend the "filone" of the bakery on Ruga dei Speziali, two steps from the Rialto market.)

Seafood: one of my favourite recipes is mazzancolle con lardo di Colonnata - another starter (the cuisine of Venice is big on starters). Mazzancolle are a particularly delicious kind of small tiger prawns. On the Venice market, they're always raw (which is a sign of quality, of course). Wrap in razor-thin slices of lardo di Colonnata (this planet's best raw salted bacon, 100 percent fat, salt, herbs, incredibly delicious, to be found at - exactly, Casa del Parmigiano). Fry cautiously in olive oil with a small quantity of garlic (the lardo will almost melt away). Give a dash of dry white wine, add salt and pepper, let cook a little. Away from the heat, add some chopped parsley. Serve lukewarm (!) with white bread.

Another starter: latti di seppia - I hope they're available in October! Latti di seppia are some sort of squid entrails, but they don't resemble any better known entrails. Rather, they resemble the squid itself, but their taste is more subtle and their consistency more tender. Put into COLD water. Bring to a boil. Continue boiling for 8 minutes. Drain. Season with olive oil, salt, pepper, parsley, and some fresh lemon juice. Marinate for some hours. Serve cold.

And now, a main course that I owe to the owners of the apartment that I'm usually renting in Venice (see my "accomodation" thread, the link is somewhere here above): swordfish with zucchini and olives - there should still be some zucchini in October, and the zucchini of S. Erasmo (the Venetian vegetable island) are certainly the world's best!! Cut the zucchini into rather thin slices. Brown in olive oil (I'd suggest the Apulian variety, this time), add chopped green olives (once more, I use to purchase them at Casa del Parmigiano - or try the tremendous olive taggiasche, a green-brown-grey sprinkled variety, incomparably delicious), add few (!) salt. Serve with sword fish steaks, simply fried in olive oil with salt and pepper and maybe a little lemon juice. (Sword fish steaks are always available in excellent quality in Venice.)

Finally, if you happen to find gò (this is possible most periods of the year) - that's the best fish to make fish soups, and maybe the best single product available in Venice. Gò is Venetian dialect, but I don't know how they're named in proper Italian, nor in English - it's a laguna fish, a kind of goby (but there are more than 2000 kinds of gobies on this planet!!). If you add some small passere (the passera is a kind of flounder, but not the usual dull flounder - it's gorgeous both cooked and fried!), maybe a small scorpionfish, and/or a small gurnard, you'll get the best fish soup you've ever had in your life. Sometimes, the fishmongers of Venice are preparing a mixture of small soup fishes (but gò are always to be ordered separately... for the true Venetian, they're the "stars" of the market). Whatever the seasoning, this soup will be unique. I use to make a French bouillabaisse with these Venetian fish, since I love bouillabaisse, but that's of course no Venetian recipe, not at all! (I don't of course dare telling any Venetian that I'm using their gò for a French soup! Italians are so conservative in gastronomic respects...) Btw, of the gò, not much will remain. They will cook to rags, and at the end, you simply throw their heads and bones away - they're making the soup a little thicker, and above all, they leave their incomparable taste...

I hope that's sufficient for the moment - at least, I stop it here because writing so much has already made me tired, I must admit. But don't hesitate to ask for further recipes!

franco-
You are so very kind to take your precious downtime to reply to my request--thank you, thank you! Now, I can hardly wait to get cooking in Venice--cooking is my passion, also, and wine is my husband's passion--so we make a good pair!
The apartment we stay in has quite a well equipped kitchen--not too far from the Rialto market. ( It's near Campo Santa Maria Mater) I will definitely find Casa del Parmigiano--thank you for that recommendation.
We don't leave home until the end of August (will be in Stresa, Montepulciano and Fonterutoli before we get to Venice early October), so should your work schedule and inclination permit, I would appreciate any other recipes or specialty shop recommendations you have time to provide--mille grazie!

Hi franco,

Great to see you back.....I wish, I wish, I wish I could be across the table from you watching you put these amazing dishes together!!!!...You describe with such brio that I can taste it all as I read....

ttt

Traviata - hi. They're even better when you taste them with your papillae than just with your imagination

roamer - you're welcome. I might add that for the baccalà mantecato, it's important to mash it till it falls apart into its single thin fibers, and if it's too strenuous to do that with a fork, you can use a food processor as well, provided it's a slow food processor, one that doesn't crush those thin fibers to pulp. Buon appetito!

Franco,
It isnt Venetian food & restaurants
but do you know anything about the ca foscari apts. or that area in Venice?
Thank you so much for your time.

Franco,
What a lovely thread. We will be in Venezia from June 9-15, staying in an apartment not far from the Rialto market and we are looking forward to cooking there, as well as trying your favorite restaurants. Any produce or fish for which we should particularly be on the lookout at this time of year? Also, any favorite spring or summer recipes?
Grazie mille!

Sea_Marks - since you're leaving so soon, I simply must take time to give you some recipes, though in a hurry. I'll take mostly recipes that I've already written down once, for an exchange with another food addict...

Now in June, you'll still find artichokes, and of course, zucchini!! (The main season for seafood is in winter and spring, and spring means March in Venice, not June - this is already early summer!, so the most interesting goods on the market might be vegetables now.)

First of all, my favourite artichoke pasta: take those marvellous artichokes that they're selling already cleaned in Venice, cut them into thin slices, sauté in a small quantity of water with a dash of white wine, salt, pepper. When half of the cooking is done, add a little bit of minced hot pepper. When the cooking is done, add butter and lemon juice, mash. Prepare a light bechamel sauce (made of butter, flour, milk, salt, pepper and nutmeg), combine with the artichoke mash. Serve on farfalle or penne.

Another artichoke delicacy is Marcella Hazan's gratinated artichokes (she's actually living in Venice, so she must be preparing it with Venetian artichokes herself). Cook four or six artichokes (according to size) in plenty of boiling water with a dash of lemon juice, don’t overcook. Cut them into very thin slices now. Put into a baking pan, alternating with grated parmesan cheese and small pats of butter, finishing with plenty of parmesan and butter. (The parmesan, of course, should be bought at Casa del Parmigiano, theirs is the best. But if anyone wants to prepare this recipe elsewhere: please take only Parmigiano Reggiano for every recipe that says "parmesan" - never Grana, this cheap surrogate.) Put into the hot oven, let brown for 15 or 20 minutes. Let stand for a few minutes. Serve with white bread.

Another marvel of the Venice markets are the small onions that they're equally selling already cleaned (how many tears they're sparing their clients!). They're just delicious marinated, as a starter: Fry one pound of small onions in olive oil. Add the juice of one lemon, a glass of white wine and 20 leaves of sage. Boil for four minutes, adjust with salt and pepper. Let stand for one day before eating.

And here comes another great delicacy: stuffed zucchini (or pumpkin) blossoms (yes, in Italy they don't just eat zucchini, but also they're blossoms!!).
This is no easy cooking (you have to work very carefully in order not to tear those tender blossoms apart), but it's worth every effort. You'll need about six to eight blossoms per person; the stuffing is made of mozzarella cheese (of course, mozzarella di bufala, made of buffalo milk, and of course to be purchased at the Casa del Parmigiano), cut into small cubes, basil, and some (few, but not too few!) hashed salted (of course, washed and drained) anchovies (the shops alongside the fish market are selling them, in two qualities, from Spain and from Sicily - those from Spain are the better ones; btw, you have to fillet them yourself), few salt, pepper. Stuff carefully into the blossoms, dip the stuffed blossoms into a light, almost liquid pancake dough (milk, egg, flour, salt), fry in olive oil. Exciting!

Zucchini: other than the zucchini with olives (and swordfish) mentioned above, I'll give you one of my pasta recipes. For two persons, cut one small or two tiny zucchini in thin slices; mince one onion; and cut two slices (each as thick as a lady's finger) of pickled, and of course already cooked and tender and peeled, beef tongue (lingua salmistrata, in Italian) into cubes. In olive oil, fry the onion first, then add the tongue, then the zucchini. Add salt and pepper, nutmeg, few garlic and, if you happen to find that in Venice, ground caraway seeds (cumino, in Italian - try at the "drogheria" on Ruga dei speziali). Sprinkle with two spoons each of water and balsamico vinegar, cook vividly for a few moments, serve on penne.

IMPORTANT ADDITION FOR ROAMER, and for everybody:
I've taken for granted, and maybe erroneously, that you've already husked the mazzancolle in the recipe above, before wrapping them into the lardo slices - sorry if this may have caused confusion.

If you don't mind, now... I have to go back to my work!

Franco,
Grazie mille! My mouth is already watering with the thought of the artichoke and zucchini and we'll think of you when we're shopping at the Rialto market on Saturday morning.

franco,
I think I would have figured out that the mazzancolle needed to be husked before wrapping in lardo, but grazie mille for taking the time to mention it!
I have eaten the stuffed zucchini blossoms in restaurants, but never dared try them myself--now I will, thanks to your kind response to Sea-Marks.
The only way I had prepared artichokes before Venice last year was to boil them in water with lemon, then pull off each leaf, dip in butter or lemon-mayo, scrape the tender part off with my teeth, and anticipate the lovely heart after scraping out the bristly choke. I was just amazed at the market to see the vendor--with a few quick whacks of a very sharp knife--cut off and discard the leaves and choke, pare the heart, and toss it into a bucket of lemon water! The hearts were something like 2 euro for 5, and we enjoyed them just sauteed with a little garlic and lemon. Now I will surely make the pasta!
Please do not jeopardize your work to supply more recipes, but if time permits for you, could you explain how to prepare the quite small artichokes that I see in the markets in Italy? They are not available here--we get only the large "globe" kind.
Again, thank you.
-roamer

Wonderful!

Franco:
I was referred to your threads from Eloise and the information is invaluable. It is really helping me plan for Venice and Rome. Thanks!
Carol

roamer, sorry to answer only now - but better late than never, isn't it?
Well, the preparation of small artichokes depends on the variety - artichoke and artichoke is not the same!
In Venice, you'll find castraure, very early in winter (beginning already in November, but the castraure "nostrane", i.e. those from Venice itself, would arrive in February). You can eat them raw, as a salad; or you can simply wash them thoroughly, and without cutting away anything, fry them in plenty of olive oil (the leaves are still perfectly tender, no woody parts at all). I must say, though, that castraure are not my favourite artichoke variety; for me, they're slightly too bitter, and generally, their taste is not as subtle as you might expect from vegetables as young as they actually are, especially since the "adult" artichokes of Venice are VERY subtle. (In Rome, they have another variety, I don't recall the name, that's being gathered very young, too, in order to be fried - for which purpose I prefer that Roman variety.)
Another small variety that is to be found actually now in Venice is called botoi. They have to be cleaned, but with less effort than big artichokes, since you don't need to eliminate the "hay" (which accounts for most of the labour of cleaning artichokes) - just break away the dark leaves, cut all green parts from the outer side of the bottom, and cut the upper half of the yellow leaves, too, but don't bother about the hay. Cook them in a mixture of half (or slightly less than half)olive oil and half water, add a dash of white wine, garlic and parsley, cover, and heat for 20 minutes - delicious as a starter, or as a side dish. You could also marinate them (either sour, with vinegar, or just with olive oil and anchovies).

Sea_Marks, please don't fail to report on your culinary experiences in Venice.

Everybody else, I'm glad if these threads are helpful for some of you!

franco,
Certainly better late than never--but I won't leave for Italy until the end of August anyway.
Thanks to you, I now know quite a lot more about artichokes-I thought the smaller ones were just young ones of the large variety! I will see what is available when we are there and follow your suggestions.
Once again, mille grazie!

Hello Franco, I have a friend in the region of Veneto that cooks the artichokes that you describe along with boiled potatoes. Quite good actually.

ek - I've stolen a few days for myself and been to Venice (it was already time!!)... and I must admit: I've had a look at Al Vecio Bragoso, and yet didn't go in! The menu was quite ok, but when I had looked at it for 15 seconds, there was already a waiter addressing me in English with the usual Venetian "nice food, nice price" litany, at 6.30 or 7 p.m. (!!), when no Italian would ever go for dinner (and I wouldn't, either). Sorry, but this is the perfect method to chase me away; if a waiter in Italy addresses me in English, I'm away in a second (not without answering in Italian)!

LoveItaly - I didn't know that they're combining artichokes and potatoes in the Veneto, but I've done that myself (without any recipe), and I confirm that it's a particularly good combination!

Wonderful information. Makes me want to return to Venice.

Woody

Sorry you found the waiter at Al Vecio Bragoso off-putting, franco. I generally drop by and book at restaurants earlier in the day. Given that Americans and northern Europeans eat dinner early it's perhaps not surprising that he took you for somebody who might be anglophone if you were perusing the menu at 6:30 or 7:00, and it's also not surprising that he might approach you, as he knows that he'd still be able to feed you and turn the table in time for later, much busier time of the evening when I ate.

The night I ate there (in the company of an American friend who speaks English only) there were no attempts to speak English by any of the staff (although Italian is not my first language) and the crowd was predominantly if not entirely Italian.

I ate lunch with an Italian friend later in the week, similarly nice experience.

We loved La Zucca. It was our favorite meal in Venice.

I was wondering if you are familiar with the restaurant Da Pinto? We had the best house red wine there. We ate there a couple of times. Food was always decent, but the house red wine was amazing. Do you have any idea what it is? I would love to have some more. Thanks.

Thank you so much for all of the information. My husband and I will be leaving for Italy for the first time this month. Info will definentely come in handy.

mauitammy - I know this place only from passing by. I recommend to simply call them by phone and ask about the red house wine. If you need Italian telephone numbers, this is where to search: http://www.infobel.com/italy/
(Venice, of course, has to be Venezia in an Italian telephone directory.)

What do you know about the restaurant Da Ivo.

I've never noticed this restaurant so far, though I've been passing by dozens of times (Calle and Ramo de' Fuseri being one of the mainfares, as well as Frezzeria just around the corner). This will be due to the fact, no doubt, that in this part of Venice, I'm blind for any restaurants - way too many tourists! I can't simply imagine that you'd get really good food in such a touristy quarter (but maybe da Ivo is the one and only exception - I hope you'll check and tell us...).

As some of you may have noticed, I'm back on Fodor's - but since these "favourite" threads have proved quite practicable, I invite everybody to continue posting questions here related to the subject of this thread.

Franco, Your list was very helpful, and I hope everyone who sees it profits from the information, but as you may have seen in another thread, I do not like to mention restaurants by name. Very few restaurants, particularly if they are small and not very well known, benefit from the presence of floods of tourists. You will recognize them, I think, from the descriptions.

That said, I must admit that I only ate three meals in the restaurants you have recommended. It does not seem like many over nine or ten days, but please bear in mind that I only eat a full lunch or dinner, never both. And when I say full, I mean the whole classical Italian meal that even Italians are no longer eating as often as they used to. I did not go to any of the pizzerias - chiefly because they do not offer full meals, but also because pizza, to me, is something I eat in Rome, not in Venice. (I know some purists eat it only in Naples, but I prefer the thinner Roman version and, in any case, I’m in Rome once or twice a year and almost never in Naples.) Vegetarian food does not appeal to me. On two visits to Venice many, many years ago, I ate at the elegant establishment you suggest. As you say, the location is wonderful, the food only average. What is more to the point is that I can simply no longer afford it; I didn’t even glance at the menu when I went to Torcello.

I ate very well on all three occasions. At one off-the-beaten-path restaurant, I did find the prices somewhat high, given the location. But the other, where I hesitated to go because I was afraid I might not feel comfortable, was perfection. The food was excellent, the service pleasant and the prices not only more than reasonable but, oh rarity of rarities in Venice, the same for locals and tourists. I was the only tourist there the first time, but when I returned, there was a French couple there with a very well known and widely used guide to inexpensive restaurants. I hope that is not a bad omen for the future; for the time being, I certainly enjoyed the second meal as much as the first.

Of my other meals, one was in a SlowFood establishment where there were almost no Venetians, only tourists, which may or may not explain why I found the meal disappointing. I ate well but expensively in two old, well-established fish restaurants. I returned to a restaurant on Burano where I had had a superb risotto alla crema di scampi the last time I was in Venice; this time, the meal was good, but not more than that. With a friend from Rome who works in the arts-communications-journalism sphere, I went to a newly reopened restaurant - it is listed in my guidebook printed in 1993 - that had been recommended to her and was, if possible, even lower priced than your wonderful suggestion, but that in itself is not a recommendation if there are a host of other weaknesses: the food was not very good (although served in humongous portions), the decor - if one can call amateur oil paintings “decor” - appalling, the attitude problematic: we were only given reservations for 9:30; I was unprepared to wait that long, we went at 8:30, the place was empty. I think they are trying to create “buzz” by playing hard to get... All right, I will name this restaurant so that you can avoid it: Antica Adelaide on Calle Priuli near the Ca d”Oro. I count only eight meals, so the others must have been totally unmemorable.

I’m afraid it may not please you, but all in all, I have to say that I ate better and more reasonably during my three days in Ravenna...

Eloise, just a few lines to thank you for this report, too (other than your sightseeing report on the other thread). Of course I agree that you're getting much better food in Ravenna, as in most Italian places - as I said in my original post here, if you want to go for a really extraordinary meal, you have to go outside Venice (though not necessarily as far as Ravenna!). I'm glad that you've been profiting from my recommendations, and as far as pizza, I've included it only for the benefit of low-budget travelers, and of fervid pizza lovers (and no, I'm not among them); of course I fully agree that eating pizza in Venice is like eating pizza in New York, or in Paris.

I just came back from Venice (been there for more than one week), and here we go with a culinary update.
Bad news first: The Due Mori in Dolo has been closed - the family continues to run the more elegant restaurant at Villa Goetzen, but gave up the wonderfully old-fashioned Due Mori.

nessundorma, if you happen to be around: this time, I finally tried Do Farai, the osteria you once recommended on another thread. First of all, thank you for the recommendation. This is a very likeable place, with an extraordinarily committed and nice owner, and while their written menu is mostly composed of standard dishes, they are preparing actually rare and interesting dishes in addition to that (you have to ask to get them!), and thus, it seems an interesting spot for those who don't know the Venetian cuisine well and want to try something unusual. This time, they had masanete (tiny crabs to be eaten as a whole, i.e. with the crunchy casings, after boiling them, and after cutting away legs and pincers), or a salad of prawns and young raw artichokes, a rare recipe as well. But here comes the con: the quality of cooking is somehow typical of Venetian restaurants - though good, it's not excellent. I can tell that with rare precision since as luck would have it, I had got that very salad recipe myself, and I had prepared it and eaten it for brunch on that very day! And I must say: my salad was much better, especially because my prawns were much better (of course I know where to buy on the Rialto fish market, but a restaurant should know even better than I do...). So I recommend Do Farai for those who are not able to cook for themselves in Venice, and don't want to spend their entire holiday eating calamari fritti; but as far as I am concerned, though I'll certainly give them a second try (the nice owner alone is worth it), I count it among the many examples why I'm preferring to cook at "home" (i.e., at the apartment I rent) when in Venice.

And just in case that roamer is around, as well, or that anybody else needs a preparation for young, tender artichokes, here is the recipe; it's a glorious preparation, and a premiere for me cause as mentioned above, I didn't love artichokes of the castraure variety so far - but if they are prepared this way, I do:
4 castraure (tender young artichokes with a very strong flavour - no need to cut away much of them, maybe you want to remove the two or three outmost leaves, but there is no "hay" inside), cut into very thin slices lengthwise. You can also use the stem, if you peel it. Sprinkle with juice of half a lemon, salt, let stand for 15 minutes. Cut one (raw) fennel, again in very thin slices. Reserve the green fennel herb. Mix fennel and artichoke slices. Add minced parsley and rucola (rocket), peel the second half of the lemon, clean from white internal membranes and seeds. Put fennel green, lemon pulp, one clove of garlic, one tablespoon of capers and four of olive oil into the cutter, blend; if the sauce is too thick, add a few drops of water. Salt and pepper, mix with the vegetables. You can add more lemon juice if you want.
Separately, gently fry super-fresh (i.e. raw) shelled prawns in olive oil, season with salt, pepper and a few drops of lemon juice. Don't mix prawns and artichoke salad before serving.
Frankly, this is a recipe that you can do justice only in Venice - you need castraure artichokes, and prawns of exceptional quality. But it is DELICIOUS.

I should have added that also the prawns are to be eaten cold - you prepare both salad and prawns the night before.

Thank you, Franco! I'm going back to Venice in March, and this will be a big help.

I was trolling through your posts and came to your suggestions for castraure artichokes--to add to my Venice cooking file. The apartment where we stay does not have a blender--can I hand chop the ingredients? I presume this recipe was being made long before modern kitchen appliances came along! I am long overdue to thank you for the helpful suggestions on food, recipes, etc. that you provided before our trip last October. I really intended to write a trip report, but shortly after we returned home I noticed a special on Max Jet's new route from Las Vegas, and since we had enjoyed our trip on that airline so much, we decided to spend New Year's in London and then on to Paris for two weeks. So planning a new trip took precedence over the trip report! We did have a lovely time in Venice in October--the weather could not have been better; we especially had fun following off-the-beaten-path walks described in "Corto Maltese's Hidden Passages" by Hugo Pratt. Do you know the book? We leave in March for Italy once again--two weeks in Montepulciano, 4 days in Lucca, 3 days in Santa Margherita, a week in Bel Girate on Lago Maggiore, then Venice for the last two weeks. Are there any special seasonal delights I will find in Venice in late April? Again, thanks for your always helpful suggestions.

Hello roamer, of course, the recipe is older than food blenders - but what they used before the blender had been invented was a mortar, and I suppose "your" apartment won't have a mortar, as well... ok, this is maybe an apt opportunity to advertise, once again, the apartment where I usually stay and cook: www.rosadivenezia.com - they have a food blender there!
No, I don't know the Hugo Pratt book - "my" guide of hidden passages in Venice is Paolo Giordani's "30 itineraries". Highly recommended!
In late April, it's artichoke time! - too late for castraure, I'm almost sure, but high season for "adult" artichokes, so you could prepare all the artichoke recipes given above! Zucchini and zucchini blossoms should be available, too, though their best season is summer.

Franco...
Thank you for the response. The apartment where you stay and cook looks lovely--perhaps we will try it next time. Casa Veronica at www.athomeinvenice.com has been very comfortable for us and we like the location near Rialto Market. Maybe I will bring my mortar and pestle from home! I look forward to the zucchini!

I meant to mention in my previous post three restaurants we enjoyed last October. Antiche Carampane at San Polo 1911--we had scallops with 3 different sauces, then pasta with crab, and perfectly cooked John Dory. Vini da Gigio 30131 Venezia in Cannaregio--baccala mantecato(good, but not as good as your recipe, Franco!), a delicious pasta with duck sauce, then osso buco for me and steak in pink peppercorn sauce for my husband. And Trattoria Corte Sconta at 3886 Calle del Pestrin in Castello--black pasta with amber jack, a beautifully presented mixed grilled seafood platter with some grilled vegetables, and a memorable white wine from Friuli. Just thought you--and others who read your notes--might like to know of these places. Oh! Io ho fame! Must stop!

Thank you, roamer, of course that's interesting! I really have to try Corte Sconta - till now, I used to be put off by the prices, but since everyone praises their kitchen...
I'm glad that you already seem to have prepared baccalà mantecato yourself, and liked it!

Franco,

Just saw your posts for the first time. I am so glad they have reappeared. I'll be in an apartment in mid-April in the Castello area. I am so looking forward to shopping in the market and attempting to prepare the food for myself. Years ago, my family stayed in a Rome apartment, and the food prepared from the markets was of much better quality than the restaurants. We learned to keep it simple, and it was a delight. Glad I caught up with your posts. Thanks for all the information.

I feel very uncomfortable about this last posting, as I do for quite a while with all postings of HelpVenice aka Ivan Gianni. His is an extraordinarily weird website, and I'm not sure what to think of his recommendations - either this is ONLY hair-raising amateurism (which is true in any case), or it's at the same time a disguised business that Mr. Gianni is trying to advertise on this forum. At least, it's strange that the only hotel (imagine! the ONLY hotel all over Venice) that has his recommendation is on the Lido, and it's the one where he is - as he himself admits on his website - working as a receptionist. And as for the apartments he is "recommending", you're inquiring with HIM, so if he didn't earn at least some money from these rentals, this would be unusual philantropy, to say the least.
But even if he is just a philantropist (and he pictures himself as such), I'm not entirely sure about his restaurant recommendations (five out of the eight restaurants he's giving here are also advertised on his website, btw). I've recommended Locanda Cipriani myself (above), but not because of "quality and price onest/good", rather, I think it's a memorable place for celebrating whatever, IN SPITE of the average food and the high-above-average prices. And please: Osteria alla Madonna is such a standard recommendation, every clerk at the tourist office would send you there. It's not a bad restaurant, it has a very professional staff, and sometimes, you can get one excellent dish, but generally, the kitchen quality is so-so, and certainly not as high as the prices. The Gatto Nero on Burano island comes with a recommendation in which I trust somewhat more than in Ivan Gianni's, by a local living a few steps from the restaurant, but at the same time, he warned me about the prices (cf. "onest/good"???), which is why I haven't tried it yet. (I will, maybe next summer, and I'll report accordingly.)

And now for something more pleasant: roamer and stuart, in April, you should still find moeche! (Their main season is in March, but you can find some most times of the year, and I guess April should be a fine month for them, though I don't recall precisely.) Moeche are small, green (!!) crabs sold alive and so tender that you eat them as a whole, with carapace and pincers. This is among the most splendid specialties I've ever tasted, though maybe for adventurous eaters only (forgive me, Eloise, if you happen to be listening). And it's a dish that you can only prepare at home, if you want to savour the traditional Venetian recipe - restaurants can't do it, and in a moment you'll see why. Ah yes, and they're really expensive, and available in Venice only. Very filling, btw, so you don't need large quantities.
Get up early and buy ONLY living moeche. Whisk several eggs, season with salt and pepper, and put the living moeche into the mixture... they LOVE eggs, and you'll hear them smacking loudly (really!!). They're eating their own stuffing now, though they don't know yet... As soon as they're fed up with the eggs, prepare a thin pancake dough of just milk, flour and salt; dip the (now full and tired) moeche into the dough (don't fear anything when touching them, they can't do you any harm with their pincers - having molted the night before, their carapace is a soft skin at the moment, pincers included) and fry them in boiling olive oil. Serve immediately. The reason why restaurants can't prepare this dish is easy - the living moeche, being sold in the morning only, would either die without food, or their digestion would ruin the flavour of the egg stuffing until all of them would have been ordered, fried and eaten.

What an amazing recipe. Although I'm not sure I have the capability to try it by myself.

Ok, "try and sign", "smiling clients", I guess it's obvious now that this is a business abusing Fodor's for advertising their services. And now, in order to make sure that Mr. Ivan Gianni will get me right...

Senti un po', Ivan Gianni: ti xe Venexian? Allora, perché non ci fai sapere le moeche come sono in Aprile - è questo il genere d'informazione che chiediamo qui. Questo è un forum non per i turisti, ma per i viaggiatori (conosci la differenza?), e NON per gli operatori professionali come te - la tua presenza qui, cioè la tua continua promozione degli affari tuoi, è assolutamente intollerabile ... xe vietà, intendi? Allora, sii buono, e smetti a fare il rompicoglioni, grazie.

I am fascinated by the moeche recipe! We are (fairly) adventurous eaters, so will hope to give it a try, although we won't get to Venice until mid May. Will moeche still be available then? I know how busy you are, franco, but any other seasonal "Venice only" recipes you can provide are much appreciated. We especially enjoyed the swordfish with zucchini and olives--and I think the zucchini and other fresh vegetables should be readily available in May.

Honestly, I don't know. I know that the main season for moeche is in March, but I've seen them at many different seasons; never in December or January, though. Lucky me, I'm not busy anymore - I'm just busy figuring out how to get from one Greek island to another in May, which is kind of impossible cause most of the ferry schedules are still to be published...

Just for the reference of future readers: no, I'm not nuts, and I'm not fighting with an (Italian) phantom here. There were postings of a Venetian business trying to abuse Fodor's for advertising, and I tried to convince them to get out of here - in vain, but the editors have been kind and attentive enough to ban this poster quickly, and to delete all of his postings...

Franco, grazie

BKM

franco - grazie for the very informative thread(s)...

We are making our first visit to Venezia at the end of April and will use some of your recomendations as we can for the wine bars and casual trattorias you suggest.

We are staying at hotel riva which is close to your favorite apartment I believe.

Do you have a recomendation for a first night quick place to get food and wine since we will be arriving late on Friday night (flight arrives at 8PM) and will be a bit tired. We want to be close to the hotel but away from the tourist traps of San Marco...

montys - no way, sorry. If your flight arrives at 8 pm at Marco Polo (right?), you won't be in town much before 9.30, and at that time, most restaurants are already closing in Venice. Places that stay open in the later evening are either the tourist traps you wisely want to avoid (there are some of them on Calle Larga S. Marco, five steps from your hotel), or Ae Oche (see above), which is on the other end of town...

bm

Franco, yes we are getting in at Marco Polo airport at 8PM...so thanks for the update on what might be open. We will either get food at the airport (gasp) or somewhere along our journey...

What is you recomendations right close to the hotel for later on our trip?

We were told to try Cantina Canaletto but I am not sure about it - we like simple casual food and love wine...

Right close to the hotel, I cannot recommend anything, and I don't know Cantina Canaletto. But on your other, "normal" evenings, distance should not be an issue - Venice is a small town, you can go and eat anywhere. Along your way from the airport into town, btw, you won't eat either - I guess you'll take the Alilaguna, and along your way, nothing but water will surround you. I'm having the same problem regularly - eating on the first evening in Venice, immediately upon arrival, is tricky. If I were to choose, I'd go - tired or not - to Ae Oche, as I've done often on my first evening.

Thanks again for the help!

I am not sure how tired we will be, since we will only be coming in from Dublin on a direct flight and should already be over our jet lag...

I think the Ae Oche sounds great and the menu looks awesome!

Thank you so much again - I will look at your other suggestions for our "normal" nights as well

bookmarking

bookmark

Update: I've been learning on another thread that Do Spade has been closed since the owner has obviously retired. Whether it's yet open again or not has not been clarified so far, anyhow, it will be a different management, and I'm afraid we'll have to forget about donkey stew and goose sausages.

I'll take the opportunity though and add a nice update, as well (I always forgot about it so far): last summer, I discovered the best gelato by far that I've ever had in Venice: on Rio di S. Trovaso, right across the bridge from S. Trovaso church. Their pistacchio gelato, above all, is sensational!

That pistacchio icecream is sensational isn't it! My personal favorite too. Even in winter there's loads of people there ordering it.

Franco, I have heard from my friend who has a B & B in San Polo, she tells me that Do Spade has reopened with new owners, so it is not the original owner or Emilio, the last owner. She said it is always empty.

rialtogrl, thank you.

re: that pistacchio icecream, they're using Sicilian pistacchios, which are supposed to be the best in the world... well, I guess I wouldn't tell my Iranian friends, but let's agree on "the best in the Western world". Still, Sicilian pistacchios are excellent enough to have been awarded the title of a Slow Food produce.

Franco, would you like to contribute to my thread about "Restaurants with a view - Italy"? I'd love to hear your suggestions! (it is near the top currently - but if you click on my name you will find it easily).

bookmark

I will be staying near Campo San Angelo. My hotel reccommended Al Bacareto. Can you tell me anything about it? Or do you know of a good moderate priced eatery in the area? Thank you, Lynne

The Bacareto is quite good, but one of the best examples of heavy Venetian overpricing. The prices, if you look at their menu, may not seem so absolutely frightening, but the price-value relation is really bad: 1. it's good, as I said, but not really exciting, 2. above all, their helpings are so minimal that you'd leave almost as hungry as when entering, but not without paying a considerable bill.
That's a very, very nice neighbourhood (one of my favourites, actually), but as far as moderately priced, good eating, I don't think you'll find anything there. But Venice is small, don't hesitate to go for dinner on the far end of the city.

Hi franco, bookmarking for future reference, nice to see you bursting into print here when our other Italian food thread is quiet (Where is ekscrunchy, and koreaprincess's trip report??)PS, at last found a radichio in a market here in the desert, now can attempt the gnocci recipe we discussed at length. I know it's not a Venetian radichio, but I can't be too fussy about these things in my neck of the woods.

Hi Franco Thank you for my answer about Al Bacareto. I am considering your recommendation about Osteria ala Botte. There will be 5 of us, arriving by plane at 12n, seeing the Doges Palace and St. Marks. After dinner we hope to take a leisurely ride by vaparetto down the Grand Canal. This restaurant is not far from our Hotel. Do they have sit down dinner? Is there a good time to go for dinner? Thanks again. Lynne

arabianjedi, ek IS already back, I've noticed several postings of hers, it's just that she didn't come back to Italian food so far... btw, I hope you've noticed the recipes I've left for you on the other thread!

Lynne, dinner time in Venice is somewhat earlier than elsewhere in Italy: around 8 p.m., in summer 8.30. Of course you can sit down at La Botte - that's not a fastfood hell!!! Since that place is always packed, it's wise to reserve - or you join the happy (standing) crowd in their first room, and have a drink or two while waiting to be seated.

Thanks Franco I am going to make a reservation. I'll let you know how it works out. Lynne

Franco,
I've read some of your recipes & we are going to cook!! when we are in Venice. You probably don't use a cookbook, but do you have a favorite cookbook for Venetian cooking? My brother will be joining us & he's a commercial fishing boat (actually catches clams in New York City) & he loves to cook. He's a really good cook. We are going to go to the fish market at the Rialto. He probably doesn't even need a cookbook.
I printed & I am taking this thread to Italy.
Last year, I printed your Umbria threat & followed a lot of it. Loved Umbria! Thanks for all your input.
Maria
Redondo Beach, CA

Maria, congratulations on your upcoming trip, a passionate cook like your brother will love the Rialto market. I do have a favourite Venetian cookbook, but it's - in German!!, of all languages. Strange but true, it's much better than anything I found in Italian on Venetian cooking. If you or your brother happen to read German: Cornelia Schinharl, Original venezianische Küche, Seehamer Verlag. If not, you'll have to stick to this thread, I'm afraid... some of the recipes here are actually from that book, others are unavailable in any book (like the moeche recipe that I've got from a Venetian restaurateur by word of mouth).

Let me add one more really great recipe by that same restaurateur - sopa coada, pigeon soup. Cut two pigeons into quarters. Chop one carrot, one stalk of celery and one onion, brown in three tablespoons of butter, add the pigeon quarters, brown. Little by little add a glass of dry white wine, let cook, salt and pepper, cover, let gently simmer. After 25 minutes, add the pigeon livers, continue for 5 minutes. In the meantime, roast six slices of bread in four more tablespoons of butter. Bone the pigeons and cut the livers into halves. To the cooking juice, add one liter of broth (beef broth for instance, or pigeon broth of course), and set aside one more liter of broth. Grate 3.5 oz. of parmesan (Reggiano). Butter a large fire-proof pan, soak two of the bread slices in broth, put into the pan, sprinkle with one third of the parmesan, put the meat of one pigeon on top and two liver halves, continue with bread, parmesan, meat, liver, bread and parmesan. Add the broth/cooking juice mixture till the upper layer of bread is barely soaked ´(use more broth if necessary). Put into a very slow oven for at least (!!!) three hours, add some broth from time to time. In the end, heat the rest of the broth and serve it in separate bowls together with the main dish (which is rather a stew than a soup).

bookmarking....

Topping since for a while, questions are coming up regularly whose answers are to be found here...

bookmarking

grazie franco!...I am interested in a nice restaurant that doesn't really feature seafood. None of our party of 4 likes it that much and I know that Venice has nice and specializes in it..but would really like a good restaurant for us to go to celebrate one in our group's birthday. grazie for your help ...we will be staying about 70 km from St Marks Square...

Hi russwuf, I recommend Vini da Gigio. They're definitely not specializing in seafood, and while some seafood will certainly be on the menu (Venice IS seafood country, of course), this is clearly a restaurant for carnivores. Pretty, too, so quite a nice place for a birthday celebration!

grazie....franco....grazie!

What a posting will be very useful for our next trip to Venice next May. Many thanks.

franco...what is your opinion of Cips Club? i am contemplating taking the private launch from St Marks to Cips Club to grab some pre/post dinner drinks.

Sorry, russwuf, I've never been there - I'm not a big fan of posh hotel bars. IF I want to splurge and visit such a place once in a while, I go to Hotel Gritti's bar, which has a traditional Venetian flair (and wonderful drinks, for grotesque prices of course). But Cip's is famous for the view, and I don't think the Gritti bar can concur for that matter.
Pre-dinner drinks, however, are a great Venetian tradition: andare all'ombra, literally "go for the shadow". Strange expression, used nowhere else in Italy but in Venice. The story goes that there was once upon a time a popular ambulant aperitif seller on Piazza San Marco, who used to move his cart so to remain always in the shadow (ombra) of the Bell Tower. However - you should take your ombra in a traditional Venetian place, and not in a hotel bar (they're nice for after dinner, when everything else is closed in sleepy Venice). Favourite choices include Al Volto, Ai Rusteghi and La Botte (see above), then the wonderful Cantine di Vino già Schiavi on Rio di S. Trovaso, opposite the church - excellent drinks and even better snacks, justly famous and - surprise, in Italy! - highly creative (but already for decades, so the Venetians have adopted these creations as quasi-traditional). Their most famous sandwich is with tuna-caper-cocoa cream, and strange as it sounds, it's quite certainly the best sandwich in the whole wide world. If you want a less famous ombra but with a view (not the view Cip's boasts, but a very nice view nonetheless), sit down outdoor at the bar on the corner of Campo S. Stefano (officially Campo Francesco Morosini) and Calle delle Botteghe, and watch Venetian life walk by.

grazie franco! wonderful information as always!

bookmarking...

Is there a really good non-alcoholic drink to order in Italy. My DH doesn't drink alcohol and enjoys ordering something local while I sip my wine or spritz.

Thanks for the suggestions

Non-alcoholic, I'm afraid not. Oranges are very good in Italy, so fresh orange juice is usually a delight, but I wouldn't call this a typical Italian drink.

Thanks Franco

bookmarking

FRANCO, I HOPE YOU SEE THIS
If you have a moment. I will be in Venice on my birthday, Sept 15th 2007 and want to have a nice dinner out. I have seen some nice reviews of a restaurant I would like to ask you about. Are you familiar with the Restaurant Del Giglio, or Al Giglio or is it the same as the one you talk about Vini del Giglio. I am confused by the name. Maybe you can enlighten me This restaurant is in the San Marco area, at Campo Santa Maria del Giglio, between Hotel Ala and Hotel Gritti. I am staying in hotel adjacent to the Museo Furtuny. Perhaps you have another suggestion for me. I like good food, decent portions, maybe a glass of wine at moderate prices

hpeabody, I'm sure Franco can give suggestions, but from your description of the location, Vini del Giglio is not the restaurant you're talking about. It's near the Ca' d'Oro vaporetto stop, nowhere near Hotel Ala. That said, I had wonderful grilled squid at Vini del Giglio in July. Reservations are definitely needed. My favorite, though, is Al Paradiso, Calle de Paradiso in San Polo.

hpeabody, as Susan already told you, there is no similarity between Vini da Gigio (NOT del Giglio) and that restaurant named Giglio that you are mentioning. I don't know it, but wouldn't eat there, especially not if looking for moderate prices - in that part of the city (which used to be the home district of a friend of mine as long as he lived in Venice), there's only one decent (though crazily overpriced) restaurant, Haig's opposite the Gritti. Vini da Gigio, on the other hand, would certainly be a nice idea for your birthday; or any other of those recommended above. Having your gastronomic self-description (good food, decent helpings, moderate prices), I think you would be most happy at La Botte, which is - I think I've repeated it too often already - also my favourite restaurant in Venice.

Thanks for this - we also loved Alle Testiere for a splurge restaurant. We had some of the best seafood we've ever eaten.

Calle del Mondo Novo, Castello 5801; 39-041/522-7220;

First of all, thank you Franco and others, I've gleaned many good restaurant notes and ideas from this thread (to add to the way-too-many that I already had).

We (me and DH) will be in Venice this fall, with some first-time-to-Europe visitors (another couple); I'm the planner. Four dinners (and lunches) in Venice. So far, for dinner, I'm planning on Alle Testiere, Anice Stellato & Vecio Fritolin. Those choices made on the basis of locations out of the tourist fray and/or general excellence. Lunches will probably be in the San Marco area, as 2 of our party will be breaking away from meetings at San Giorgio, and will need to return to them.

So, I'm looking for the just-right restaurant for their first (jet-lagged) night in Venice (and Italy, and Europe) (it will be our 2d night there this trip). Not formal, unusual or expensive, maybe more centrally located (their hotel is near Campo Santa Marina), somewhere easy and fun. Alla Madonna would be good, but they don't take reservations, so that's a NO. Alla Botte is a possibility, but maybe we'll go there for lunch. Osteria di Santa Marina, maybe, but I remember checking it out on our last trip, and it seemed a bit over-priced, though the location is charming. Trattoria da Remigio is another possibility.

Any suggestions?

Lexma, admittedly, I'm feeling a bit ridiculous when recommending it twice a day, but La Botte is of course the top choice - it's more or less around the corner from their hotel, and it's a gorgeous casual place, just right after an exhausting journey. Santa Marina is so formal, I wouldn't want to go there jet-lagged. But I wouldn't want to go there anyway since I don't love to be ripped off (see my July 4th, 8:00 pm posting on this thread: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34967038), so I may not be unprejudiced enough for this choice...
I'm also curious whether you'll like any of the other restaurants (all more famous and more expensive) as much as La Botte...

...ah yes, and Remigio is not bad (overpriced, thus, as usual in Venice), but that's quite a walk from Campo S. Marina!

Thank you, Franco. Maybe then we'll visit la Botte for dinner (or maybe Remigio, but there is that walk). I wasn't sure if it's primarily for cicchetti, but it sounds like the dinners, or full meals, are a great choice too. And I wanted something not so upscale, etc. as our other dinners. Anice Stellato we really like - we've been there several times, and consider the prices reasonable (for Venice!). A restaurant-owner friend in our town can't stop telling us how wonderful Alle Testiere is, so we have to see for ourselves. And Vecio Fritolin, I liked the location and the looks of their website. Though I have a lot of wine bar types of places (probably many recommended by you) on my list; maybe we'll go to those instead of Fritolin. But the first night, I wanted a more restaurant-type place, because I think that'll be an easier experience for the newbies to Venice.

Grazie, Franco.

I will check out La Botte

b-mark

Franco, When you replied to Lexma90 you said that Alla Botte was "more or less around the corner from their hotel" Were you referring to the Hotel San Giorgio? That is where I am staying. It would be great if that is the case. If not, do you think it is walkable from the Hotel San Giorgio/Museo Fortuny. Also, do you know of a website that has their menu. The link above is in italian and I did not see what might have a button for a menu. The full name is Osteria alla Botte, right?

Osteria alla Botte, sì, Signor/a. They don't even have a menu at their venue, so they don't of course have one on the web - their menu is (like in all good restaurants) changing daily, and they're simply handwriting it in chalk on a blackboard, that's the menu.
As far as the hotel, Lexma said their friends are staying in a hotel on Campo S. Marina, and from there, it's just a few minutes to La Botte (I don't think Lexma was referring to a hotel S. Giorgio, rather to S. Giorgio island, i.e. the Fondazione Cini, I guess). From Palazzo Fortuny, it's a mid-distance walk, nothing strenuous: from S. Beneto (that's where you are, Venetians are always quoting the nearest church to describe locations), to S. Luca - S. Salvador - S. Bortolomio, and there you are. And of course, everything is walkable in Venice - it's not a large city!

I'm MUCH less familiar with Venice than is Franco, but based on the map I looked at, your Hotel San Giorgio is very close to alla Botte, I would guess about 5-10 min. walk. The hotel my friends are staying at is on Campo Santa Marina, which is also very close to alla Botte. I couldn't locate a menu (in Italian or English) for alla Botte either.

Yes, indeed, a 6 or 7 minutes walk for me, 12 minutes for someone who is less acquainted with the city. From S. Marina, it's even nearer, thus, and easier to find.

Ooooh, Thank you both so much. That was very helpful. I am very much looking forward to my visit to Venice

thanks Franco ... I have so enjoyed reading your posts and the wealth of info you have shared. We will be heading to Venice (our first trip to Italy) in a few weeks and I am soaking up lots of good ideas for our trip. I am usually one to plan every detail before we leave but was unable for this trip so we're going to sort of wing it. Hoping we can read a little and just walk around and chose things as we see. That said, for our anniversary (the reason for the trip) I would like to plan the dinner ahead just to prevent an evening spoiling experience. My husband and I appreciate good food & wine, but atmosphere is just as important to us at times. Looking for a good view, quaint cove, sweet music, or something a little special but not bank-breaking. Of your recommendations is there one that has a stand-out atmosphere? Can you please advise? Also any "after-dinner" spots for wine and maybe music? Thanks so much.

Update after a recent visit: upon warm recommendation by a Venetian friend, I've tried a new place: Antico Giardinetto (S. Croce 2253, Calle dei Morti). Well, while that friend is a woman of impeccable taste in fashion matters, I guess I won't follow her gastronomic recommendations again... food eager to hide every trace of taste, you wouldn't know whether you're eating fish or polystyrene - shudder! The prices are nevertheless considerable, of course, after all, this is Venice. But certainly a pretty and somewhat fancy place...
Another evening in S. Croce, another story: Capitan Uncino (see above), the service grunchy as always, the place not fancy at all, but the kitchen better than ever. Really delicious food, this time!

baemel, in atmospheric respect, of all the recommendations above, Locanda Cipriani certainly has no competition. The food is not memorable, but good enough not to spoil your evening, and the place, and the boat trip to and from Torcello, are really among the most special Venice & lagoon experiences. Another pretty and nice place (certainly not with the views the trip to Torcello boasts!) is Vini da Gigio, which may be more of a place where foodies would want to celebrate an anniversary. If you happen to have a car, consider Villa Condulmer on the mainland, that's certainly the best choice: great food, great location, and reasonable prices.

Locanda Cipriani sounds very interesting. thanks very much for the info.

do they keep the terrace/garden tables open in early October? we'd love to dine outside... I assume we need reservations?

do you know anything about what food options are at Christmas time in Venice? We have been to Venice before,staying again on Dorsoduro ,understand much is closed...

Franco, I'm so happy that you recommend winter as a fine time to visit Venice! As the time of our visit draws nearer (January 11-24, 2008), I'm again asking for your always helpful advice on food preparation. Please tell me about castraure and cime di rapa artichokes. The only artichokes I know are the large ones (mostly from California) which we stuff, or usually, boil, then dip the bottom of the leaves in melted butter and scrape the flesh off on our teeth. Also, which fish am I likely to find at the Rialto and what best method of preparation? I'm looking forward to a new experience--frittelle--and will certainly try Maria Boscolo's. Thank you in advance for your time and helpful response.

First of all, sorry to take so long to reply, I've been – well, in Venice, of course.

dodgergoes, sorry, I've never been to Venice for Christmas. But that's one of those easy-to-solve problems: just call all the restaurants where you'd like to dine, and ask them - nobody knows better than they do!

roamer - cooking in January! Wonderful season on the Rialto market, especially for all those gorgeous bitter vegetables they're having in Italy! As far as castraure artichokes, my one and only recipe (I think I told you once that I'm not a big castraure buff, but prepared this way, yes I do love them) has already been on this thread for a while, with special dedication to you - see above, my post of Dec. 21st, 2006.
As far as cime di rapa, these are NO artichokes - rather, turnip tops, if you happen to ever have seen or eaten such a thing. In fact, it's a variety of its own that develops only "tops" (i.e. leaves) and almost no turnips; its closest relatives are broccoli, that's why they're being called, very confusingly, broccoletti in some regions of Italy (not in Venice). They consist of leaves, stems, and tiny broccoli-like umbels (appunto, i broccoletti); all three are edible and delicious, but the stems (the thicker ones) need to be peeled, which is a little laborious, but absolutely rewarding. Delicious on pasta; here come my favourite cime di rapa recipes (both not Venetian, but Venice is a perfect place to prepare them – cime di rapa are excellent there; both for 400 grams/14 oz. pasta):
1. the classic recipe from the Puglia region: orecchiette con cime di rapa
Wash, clean and chop 17.5 oz. cime di rapa. Heat PLENTY of salted water, drop the orecchiette in, and after 5 or 6 minutes ADD the cime di rapa (very unusual to cook pasta and vegetables together!). Drain as soon as the pasta is al dente. In the meantime, gently (!) fry a clove of garlic (not chopped; discard before serving) and two chopped anchovy fillets in 0.1 pt. olive oil. Pour over drained pasta/vegetables mixture and serve.
2. less rustic version: with cime di rapa and pine nuts
Clean and wash 26.5 oz. cime di rapa. Wet as they are, put them into a pot, cover, blanch the vegetables (5 to 8 minutes should be enough). Let cool, chop coarsely, salt and pepper. Cook the pasta (spaghetti, linguine, trenette or the like) al dente (actually, a little less than al dente). In the meantime, softly heat 4 tablespoons olive oil with 2 cloves of garlic and 1 small hot pepper (all chopped), and separately roast 3.5 oz. pine nuts without oil at lowest heat. Add the drained pasta to the garlic-chili oil, add the cime di rapa, shortly heat everything together. Sprinkle with the pine nuts.

Sorry again, but typing recipes is somewhat strenuous - I have many more for you, but will add them by and by over the next few days!

Franco welcome back! You have just returned and already I have learned something new! I always thought that cima de rape was synonymous with rapini, which is the name I often use for broccoli rape.

Is the vegetable ingredient in the famous dish of orechiette with "broccoli rape" and sausage, (which I think of as Puglian(??)) actually cima de rape???

Sorry this is so poorly worded but I think you will understand my question...

Also, in the past few months (since last summer) I have discovered the joys of cooking with baby artichokes and at the moment one of my favorite dishes is braised baby artichokes with shrimp and lemon peel. Sometimes I throw in some tiny fingerling or new potatoes..the artichokes are gone from our farmers markets now, but if you can get them, this is a supremely easy dish...I also throw in some peperoncino (or smoked paprika)...

sorry I got way off the topic here..

ek, if you're meaning this one: http://www.jupiterimages.com/popup2.aspx?navigationSubType=itemdetails&itemID=23230690, then yes, it's broccoli rape. I must say the term is unfamiliar with me, I know them as turnip tops in English, which would seem synonymous with broccoli rape (see http://www.babbonyc.com/in-turniptops.html - from the website of a restaurant that you might know, ek!), but then, I don't know them in English at all - I've actually never seen them anywhere than in Italy!

Hi, Franco-

you say that you've never been in Venice at christmas - how about Easter - which is when we'll be there?

anything special to look out for, food-wise?

regards, ann

Yes, Franco! The vegetable in the first photo is the one I referred to..I call it either rapini or broccoli rape..many people here (NYC) call it broccoli rabe.

But in reading the Babbo description, this is looks to be a different vegetable...more like the greens which grow at the top of our turnips..and these are not as easy to find. We call them turnip greens and they are popular in our southern states..

Rape is one of my favorite vegetables and I make it very often. In fact I was dismayed that I did not see any in the farmer's market this morning...I suspect that the season may be past and I will have to buy them in the supermarket (where they arrive from the west coast, or Mexico). My new favorite use (besides just cooking it with garlic and perhaps, adding currants or raisins) is to grill some good bread with smoked scamorza and top this with boiled broccoli rape and dried red pepper flakes warmed in oiol.... it does not sound interesting but it is a very tasty snack..somehow the bitter green compliments the smoked cheese..I need to move this discussion to the Italian food thread..sorry for hijacking Venice here..

ek, this problem seems too difficult to definitely solve. I've done some research for Latin names (hoping they should be non-ambiguous - HAH!)... Italians call their cime di rapa, in Latin brassica rapa var. cymosa or brassica campestris var. cymosa; broccoli rabe is being translated into Latin as brassica ruvo, and yet it seems to be the same vegetable... and the same as turnip tops, at least for some people in some regions. No, cime di rapa have definitely no subsurface turnips (or none to speak of) - they're a variety that grows only leafs and umbels, so if for you, turnip tops are the greens of "real" turnips, this is not what cime di rapa means. This site (British), however, calls it turnip tops, and it's definitely cime di rapa (you would say broccoli rabe, true?): http://www.gonegardening.com/xq/asp/dept_id.404111/pf_id.2201844/referer./qx/gg_shop/product.htm
On the other hand, would you perhaps say these are turnip tops? http://70.249.97.241/rapini.htm ... The site says broccoli rabe, however...
In any case, I think you're doing well with what you're calling broccoli rabe.

annhig, I beg your patience. Recipe translating is time-consuming, and you still have some time left until Easter - check again, and I promise to leave some recipes for you, as well. First comes roamer, however, since she's already travelling in January...

Thank you, Franco, for your time and efforts! I will certainly try the orichette with-what I call-broccoli rabe. I look forward to more recipes when you have time. Why don't you help us all and publish a cookbook with Italian--especially Venetian--recipes?

Hi Franco,,

that's great - mille grazie.

I'm happy to wait and learn from what you suggest for Roamer.

regards, ann

Franco: The second photo depicts the vegetable that I know. The UK site vegetable appears to have too many florets (proper word?).. I will keep on the trail here and see if we can sort this out...

Anyway, those greens are delicious!!!

ek, yes, it has many, and big “florets” (what I called umbels). Either a very rich variety, or a photo meant to be promotionally effective. Either way, it’s the right vegetable, even though “normal” cime di rapa have far less florets.

roamer, what is to become my “Venetian cookbook” is actually this thread! – I hope that’s satisfying, as well. Today, we’re going on with radicchio; one of my two favourite vegetables. There has already been a major radicchio discussion on our general Italian food thread, so this time, let me suffice it to say: if you can envision cooking a delicious, sweet jam with just a hint of tart with the radicchio you’re eating, then it’s really radicchio; if radicchio jam seems inconceivable, then you’re eating the stuff they seem to produce for export only, since they wouldn’t even touch it in the Veneto. Radicchio is not an Italian vegetable, it’s a Veneto vegetable – the best quality isn’t to be found anywhere but there. And it’s a pure winter vegetable; the colder the weather is, the better. Radicchio in spring, summer and autumn? See above: stuff for the rest of the world, where they have no clue about radicchio (only exception: frozen radicchio – yes, you can freeze COOKED radicchio, and eat it all year round). Of course, Venice in winter is the perfect place to prepare radicchio; of the five varieties to be found there, two are the real pleasure: tardivo di Treviso (this is what made radicchio famous!), and Castelfranco. I strongly advise against sampling the three others, Verona, precoce di Treviso, and worst of all, Chioggia. Enjoy, roamer!!
First comes my latest addition to my radicchio repertory: salad of warm beans and radicchio. You need white beans; preferably fresh ones (there was a particularly delicious variety available when I was in Venice recently), 2 lbs. before hulling; but also dry beans are of course acceptable (6 oz., soak overnight). Cook beans in water WITHOUT salt. In the meantime, clean 1 lb. of radicchio, cut into stripes. Soak in cold water for a few minutes, drain and dry. Mix with beans as soon as they’re done. Add salt, your very best olive oil, a dash of red wine vinegar, and plenty of freshly ground black pepper. This is sounding so simple that I didn’t prepare it for quite a long time (I had got this recipe years ago)… what a mistake! It’s delicious beyond description. I had it with salsicce al prosecco, fresh sausages with prosecco in the meat, a terrific specialty of the butcher on Ruga dei Spezieri, behind the Rialto market.
A long-time favourite is gnocchi al radicchio: this time, we’re starting with 0.5 lbs. radicchio tardivo di Treviso, cut into stripes again. Chop one onion and 1.8 oz. pancetta (a kind of unsmoked bacon), gently fry in 2 large tablespoons of butter. Add radicchio stripes. Add 0.25 pt. prosecco, and 0.3 pt. liquid cream. Let simmer for five minutes. Add 4 tablespoons of grated parmesan or asiago cheese, salt, pepper and nutmeg. Pour over gnocchi; while I, of course, prefer home-made gnocchi, this is a problem in Venice since they have rarely any good potatoes there, so you might want to buy fresh gnocchi at any grocery store. If you happen to find floury Dutch potatoes (Bintje e.g., sometimes available on the Rialto market), make the gnocchi yourself: 2.2 lbs. potatoes (peel BEFORE cooking), salt, 1 egg, 5.3 oz. flour.
Excellent, as well, is risotto al radicchio. Clean and chop 10 oz. radicchio, mince a small onion and two cloves of garlic. Sauté everything in 1.5 tablespoons butter, add 0.25 pt. dry red wine, let evaporate, add 12 oz. risotto rice (in Venice, the classic variety has to be Vialone Nano!, but of course, Carnaroli would be excellent, as well) and cook with light beef broth, salt and pepper as you are used to do it (risotto cooking is a matter of beliefs – every cook sticks to his/her own method!). In the end, add again 1.5 tablespoons butter, and some grated parmesan. Variations: you could also use half butter, half olive oil for sautéing the vegetables. You could use some pancetta instead of the garlic. You could add five or six crushed juniper berries to the soffritto. You could sprinkle the risotto with parsley before serving.
And maybe my favourite Venetian radicchio recipe is coda di rospo al vino rosso con radicchio – monkfish with red wine sauce, very unusual, very delicious! Clean 14 oz. radicchio di Castelfranco, cut into quarters, separate leaves. Mince one onion. Sprinkle 1.3 lbs. monkfish steaks (wonderful quality on the Rialto market!) with one tablespoon lemon juice, salt and pepper. Blanch radicchio in salted water (for 2 minutes), drain and quench. Heat 2 tablespoons olive oil, sauté onion, add 0.25 pt. dry red (!) wine, bring to a boil, add radicchio, salt and pepper, let simmer for a few minutes. Separately, heat 2 more tablespoons olive oil (or maybe more), gently fry monkfish steaks (2 or 3 minutes on each side), serve on radicchio bed with fried polenta slices, or simply with bread.

Franco: This is GROSS but it is also the truth:

There is saliva on my keyboard!

Your cookbook will be a best-seller!

Franco-
Thank you so much for your recipes. I know it is time consuming for you to translate and enter your recipes, and I, and as well as others on this thread, are very appreciative.
One question--are the different varieties of radicchio identifed in the market? As I remember the Rialto, there aren't indications--one is just supposed to know which is which! Can you provide clues to identify the tardivo di Treviso and the Castelfranco? Again, sorry to cause more work for you, but your efforts are much appreciated! My mouth is watering already!

I just found an article about radicchio in the January 2008 Bon Appetit magazine. It says "Trevisio is a milder variety that's elongated like Belgian endive. Two rarer types are particularly appealing: Tardivo--which looks like a flower drawn by Dr. Seuss--is crisp and flavorful, and the rosette-shaped Castelfranco is tender and mild." I think that what the article calls Tardivo must be the "tardivo di Treviso" that you
use in your recipes?
The article has recipes for Radicchio Salad with Oranges and Olives, Sausages with Caramelized Red Onions and Radicchio, and Penne with Radicchio, Spinach and Bacon. The only radicchio available in the markets here is Chioggia--can't wait to get to "Radicchio Heaven" in Venice in January to taste the other varieties!

roamer, yes, tardivo is what it's usually "nicknamed"; "tardivo di Treviso" is the official name (it's an IGT, a protected indication of origin). Look here - this site http://www.ortofruttabaldan.it/verdura/Radicchio.htm shows pictures of all five varieties (scroll down, please), and even of a sixth that I've never heard of, as well.

Hold on - more recipes to follow before you leave!

franco, that site is perfect--thank you so much! Now I won't have trouble identifying the different vaieties. Castelfranco looks too pretty to eat, though! I will look forward to more recipes. Meantime, Buon Natale!

The same is true for tardivo - extraordinarily pretty, as well! Here is a nicer picture: http://www.producehunter.com/productdisplay.asp?ID=2184

Much nicer picture of tardivo--now can't wait to taste these varieties!

franco-Thank you for all your helpful information. We are not going back to Italy until June 09,but I love to start researching ahead of time. We have a week at Le Barchesse Di Villa Corner in Cavasagra di Vedelago. We were in No. Italy in the 80's and took a day trip to Venice. While it was one of my favorite cities it was also one of the worst meals I had so I wrote down the places you reccomended outside of Venice.I will look forward from time to time to get any other ideas for Will look forward to any other food information in the future-Chris

Franco--

You helped so much with my apartment questions for Rome, and now I'm looking at the Venice poriton of our trip. I've read this thread with interest and have copied down lots of info. We'll have an apartment in Venice in the beginning of January and are fish and seafood lovers, so we'll want to try some of those things from the markets. Do you have any suggestions for Venetian fish/seafood and vegetable specialities available at this time of year? Do any of the markets also have vendors that have prepared certain dishes one can take back and rewarm? And, finally, other than the places you mentioned at the very beginning of this thread, where can we have a good inexpensive meal, nothing fancy just good? Thanks again. You are a font of knowledge.

Thank you both for your nice comments.
BeniciaChris, hold on, I'm going to add another marvellous place out of Venice soon - I just want to finish those January recipes first!
julies - restaurants other than those already mentioned here, sorry I have none for you. But there are some throughout this thread, not just at the beginning. And as far as January recipes, please read my most recent posts, they're full of them. Please keep reading - there's more to follow, and I'll say also something on seafood.

Happy holidays to everybody!

The next installment is on my second favourite vegetable: cardoons; another winter vegetable. In Venice, they’re having particularly delicious cardoons. Cardoons, for who doesn’t know them, are close relatives of artichokes; much more delicious; and the ultimate cleaning nightmare. We had a discussion about artichoke cleaning on our general Italian food thread; well, if you think artichokes are tough to clean, it’s a walk in the park compared with cardoons. Disposable rubber gloves are obligatory, or your hands will be dark-brown for a week. You have to peel them thoroughly from the leaves and all the fibrous parts, every single stalk. To make things worse, the smaller they are (i.e. the leaner the stalks), the better. (Buy cardoni nostrani – i.e. those from the Veneto region, which are VERY lean.) It’s kitchen work you won’t forget – but then, you won’t forget the taste, either. One of the most delicious tastes on this planet…
A general remark: I’ve decided to give Italian measures from now on – after all, these recipes are meant to be prepared in Venice, and it doesn’t in fact make sense to give Angloamerican measures, though I always did till now; in Venice, it will be harder to re-convert them into Italian measures than converting them into what you are used to when and if you are preparing them at home (which is, in many cases, not recommended, as you know, since the ingredient quality will simply not be the same). Italy has the metric system, of course; but its most common kitchen measure is an Italian specialty, I’ve never encountered it anywhere else: the name is etto (one etto, two or more etti, abbreviation hg), which translates into 100 grammes (abbreviation g), for the rest of continental Europe. This is what you have to order when shopping – only etti and kilograms (abbreviated kg) are common in everyday life in Italy!
Ok, back to cardoons. Cardoons are always cut into pieces before cooking, and the water used for cooking them must ALWAYS be poured away – uncooked cardoons are INCREDIBLY bitter (you’ll pour the bitter taste away with the water). The three recipes I have to offer are not Venetian, I’m sorry – but I don’t simply know what Venetians are doing with their great cardoons. I’ve never seen a Venetian cardoon recipe, and never seen cardoons on a Venetian restaurant menu. Never mind – since their cardoons are so wonderful, Venice is the right place for these dishes (the first is from Umbria, the second from Liguria, the third from the Abruzzo region). They’re all terrific!
Gobbi in parmigiana (gobbo, cardo or cardone are the Italian words for cardoons – in Venice, they say cardo; parmigiana is an Italian standard preparation with tomatoes and parmesan involved)
Cut the cleaned cardoon in pieces as long as a finger, throw them into boiling salted water, drain as soon as they are al dente. Let cool. Coat with flour, then with egg, and fry in olive oil. Serve with a ragù made from (thinking of a big cardoon of perhaps 1.2 kg) 2 hg minced beef, 3 chicken livers and 3 chicken hearts, one small salsiccia (a fresh sausage), and 2.5 hg fresh tomatoes (yes, you can buy tomatoes even in winter in Venice – they’ll still be tastier than what most non-Italians are getting in summer), starting with olive oil, and plus salt & pepper, of course. Layers of fried cardoons and ragù (each ragù layer sprinkled with grated parmesan) are arranged in an oven-proof dish, and bake in a hot oven for 30 minutes.
Cardi al tegame (i.e. in the clay pot)
Cook cardoon pieces (smaller pieces than for the recipe before, of a cardoon that had about 1 kg before cleaning) in boiling water, drain. Melt 50 g butter in a terracotta pot, add cardoon pieces, 3.5 hg salsiccia (peel it and mash the sausage meat with a fork) and 60 g grated parmesan, salt, cover and let simmer for 40 minutes.
Cardone in brodo con fegato di gallina (with broth and chicken liver)
Cut a 1 kg cleaned cardoon into small pieces (a finger’s breadth) and put into cold water for an hour, then boil & drain as usual. In your terracotta pot, fry 2 chopped chicken livers in olive oil, salt. (Believe it or not, also chicken livers are of unusual quality in Venice. I’ve never sampled better ones.) Add the cardoon pieces, 2 big ladles of chicken broth and a small ladle of veal ragù (of course, prepared with tomatoes and olive oil, maybe starting with frying a little quantity of onion or scallop). Let cook for five minutes, let cool for a moment, add 2 raw eggs and grated pecorino. Bake in a hot oven for ten minutes. Don’t be mystified by the "brodo" in the recipe’s name – this is not a soup, it’s a casserole.

Franco, thank you so much for your time and energy in translating these recipes. I have learned so much from your posts! I have heard of cardoons, but never seen any (that I know of). Now I will certainly seek them in the market in Venice. I did find a picture on the internet, so I know what to look for. I knew about the etto/etti measurement, but did not know exactly how many grams, or that the abbreviation is hg. Very helpful! We will be in Venice one week from tomorrow--can't wait!

p.s. We have had fegato alla Veneziana in restaurants several times and found it to be delicious. Now I must try the chicken livers. Would it be "fegato di pollo" in Italian?

Since chicken livers are so small, they're usually called fegatini di pollo. Try the wonderful butcher on Calle dei Spezieri.
Actually, I wanted to add something on seafood for you, as well, but we're running out of time. January is a marvellous month for fresh seafood - look out for what I've already mentioned above! It should be easy to find gò now, some moeche, latti di seppia, mazzancolle (do try that wonderful simple recipe given above with lardo di colonnata) - and canestrelli. This is a new ingredient to this thread - sort of small scallops, but tastier, and IMO more delicious than their famous "big brothers". You can substitute them for any scallop or clam recipe, they're truly delicious. Important: clean them like oysters - i.e. open them before cooking, with a knife (much much easier and less dangerous than with oysters!). Cut away all the grey parts, and wash the rest thoroughly - they're FULL of sand!
Enjoy Venice, and enjoy cooking, and please don't fail to report back on your culinary achievements.

Thank you, Franco, for all of the information you have provided--more than enough for cooking during the two weeks we will be in Venice! I have all of your fish recipes from above and will definitely look for canestrelli. I will report on my culinary adventures when we return. Arrivederch for awhile!

I must finally take time to add all due updates after my last visit. Chris, are you listening? Another great recommendation for dining outside Venice - a thousand times better than almost any place in town: Al Bacaro in Noventa di Piave! (No website.) Reservation is obligatory: call 0421-658282. Closed Tuesday evening and Wednesday. This is the best place I know to sample the traditional Veneto cuisine - Veneto, not Venice! Which means hardly any seafood here; this is inland cooking. The place is a little confusing for newbies - no written menu, and there are two kinds of eating here: either you choose the standard order of primo and secondo piatto (with an antipasto, if you like) - then they'll tell you by word of mouth what the choices are. Or you take the "menu di antipasti" - a menu of "starters" only, though those so called starters are large to huge helpings here. In this case, they don't tell you anything, but just start carrying gorgeous food to your table, whatever they have ready, and they won't stop before you make clear that you're going burst NOW. (Stop them a little before and leave space for their wonderful cakes.) Terrific quality, terrific atmosphere (the place is always packed with happy eaters), heartily recommended.

Regularly over the last weeks, people who wanted to contact me opened new threads and addressed me in the title, like "Franco (and others), ... question, please". I hope I've noticed all of them, but nevertheless, this is a little hazardous since I'm not such a diligent forum reader - rather the lazy type. Very often, I'm just checking the threads on which I've already posted before...
So if you want my opinion, please post your question on "my" appropriate thread (all the links are above, near the top); or, if you open a new thread for your question hoping that this way, more others might weigh in, then please post a short notice or a link to your question on "my" thread as well to prevent me from overlooking it. Thanks!

Thank you Franco for the information-I have jotted the information down in my notebook. Also I didn't thank you for letting me know about my timeshare. In the printout it says very little English spoken at this resort. It looks nice and quiet. We will be in a wonderful area to pop into. I love little towns.Again Thanks Chris

Hello Franco,

Thank you for all the wonderful information, I am busy re-reading for my trip in March.

I'm traveling alone this time and was hoping you could suggest good places for casual dinners or just having a glass of wine alone. This is my third trip to Venice and I will be there for 6 days. My husband has been with me before and I am going to miss the companionship at dinner. Any other ideas for passing the evenings on my own?

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a good place to be alone, but if I think of eating or having a drink in my hometown then there are places I definitely feel more comfortable in alone above others.

I'm hoping to buy some radichio seeds while I am there, do you have any idea where I could buy them?

I'm also hoping to buy different things on this trip. Rather than the typical tourist stuff I'd like to get gadgets for my kitchen (ie: those wooden rolling pins with ravioli shapes on), anything unusual, so if anyone knows of good places to find the kind of everyday stuff venicians buy I'd be most grateful.

I know this isn't food related but I am also looking to buy glass seed beads. I bought lots of big Murano beads previously but only managed to find a few bags of seed beads and would love to get more this time.

Thanks again for a great thread.

Mischka, thanks much for the accolade. Well, solo dining is certainly not too amusing; but having dined solo quite often myself in Venice, I assure you it's a lesser problem if you only speak Italian. Italians will rarely leave a solo diner completely solo; innkeepers and waiters will cheat with you a little, and so will probably the diners next table.
Of my recommendations on this thread, a place to avoid when eating alone is Al Bacco - most of their primi are only available for two!! And Capitan Uncino is also not the best choice since the people working there (owners and waiters alike) are so terribly grumpy, they're not going to speak one word with you.
La Botte, once again, is certainly the most commendable place, as it's always packed with merry people; and of the wine bars, the Cantine di Vino già Schiavi are an excellent choice for single visitors, as well as Al Volto, where I always found the barkeepers very friendly and communicative. If you want to splurge, I recommend the bar of the Gritti over that of the Europa & Regina (these are the two best hotel bars in Venice), as far as affable waiters - at these hotel bars, you could probably even have a chat in English.

As far as radicchio seeds, there is a large florist in the Frezzeria - Calle dei Fuseri neighbourhood (I don't recall the precise location) that has all kinds of seeds... BUT: don't expect to get proper radicchio. It definitely needs the specific climate and soil of the Veneto region. Nowhere else will the results be satisfying, and mostly not even edible!

Venice is not big on casalinghi... shudder to hear that the best place to go is a huge shopping center on the mainland, in Marghera - not quite the place where you'll want to spend some hours of your holiday! Btw, I prefer stamps to make ravioli, like those: http://www.tncasalinghi.com/html/uk/products_all.htm (a simple version on top of the page, art. 121, but scroll down to art. 135-139-140 for the "real" thing).
And Murano glass, sorry, that's definitely not my cup of tea.

Thanks Franco, I have printed your advice with a little map of how to get to La Botte etc. (Thanks to Google maps, I love them)

Thanks too for the advice about the radicchio, I will buy the seeds and give it a try and hope for the best. We are members of our local Italian Club where I always eat radicchio salads, it's not the same as in Venice but it's better than nothing. I am telling myself that our climate is similar, as we live next to the sea so I will be able to grow it. We will wait and see.

Thanks for the link for the casalinghi, at least now I know the correct name. You’re right, I don’t think I would want to give up valuable time in Venice to go off to a shopping center so I will just keep my eyes open in Venice and maybe I will get lucky and find what I am looking for. The stamps look like a very good idea. My husband and I were extremely lucky to have a great time at Jamie Oliver’s Fifteen Restaurant last September, we were given bar stools to sit on next to the pasta making table and we sipped wine while watching them make ravioli. They only used pastry wheels for cutting out squares (just checked my photos to make sure). I found other good shopping ideas on your link, thanks.

Anyone else like to chip in with good ideas?

Three important updates after a recent visit to Venice:
1. Osteria alla Botte has changed character a bit. The first room is no more wine bar where crowds are standing with their glasses; thus, no more crowds outside in the lane, as well - the first room has been integrated into the dining/restaurant area! Which has certainly rendered this place more quiet, and less funny. BUT: the gorgeous food is still the same, and so are the prices. AND: they're staying open longer in the evening - the kitchen will prepare food until 10 pm now, or 10.30 if there are many customers.
2. Finally, Venice is growing adult as far as late dining - there is a new restaurant that solves the severe problems of anybody arriving in town late in the evening! Ristorante Centrale caters to hungry tourists until 2 am!!! It's located on Piscina Frezzeria, in San Marco (see http://www.centrale-lounge.com/en/lounge_restaurants.htm). The prices are incredibly bold, and I would and will never eat there, but nevertheless, this is an important improvement in a city with so many tourists (many of whom do actually arrive late, and had to starve on their first evening until now).
3. A very, very nice new wine bar has opened in Campo del Remer near the main post office, appropriately called "Remer". They're also serving delicious-looking cold food (I didn't try yet) like salami, prosciutto and so on in huge helpings, and they're staying open until late (around midnight, I guess). Campo del Remer is one of those hidden jewels Venice is full of, and tourists never find them... a terrific little place directly on Canal Grande, but tucked away in a corner near Rialto Bridge, and not easy to find, fortunately.

bookmarking

I posted this question in a separate thread but it was suggested I also add it to this one.
I'm looking for a place for a 50th birthday dinner for around 18 people in Venice. We're hoping for something not too formal but with good food and a lively atmosphere. We're open to having it in a restaurant or private space. Any suggestions are welcome.

Sequess, we ate at Trattoria Alla Rivetta, recommended by our hotel for its fish menu. It’s at Ponte S. Provolo 4625. It was nice, with a lot of locals and others lining up to eat there. Our meal was 58.24EUR, for two fish entrees, and a half-liter of house wine. This was two years ago.

The room we ate in would probably serve 18.

Maybe Franco can comment on it?

PeaceOut, I can't comment on La Rivetta since I don't know it. This is an area of Venice where I don't normally eat: far too touristy and thus, far too risky IMO. Of course, if you've liked the food, I bow to the one who's been there. What does still deter me, though, is the price, which is definitely exaggerated for just two antipasti and half a liter of wine. Which shouldn't cost more than 33 Euros.

sequess, La Botte very often caters to groups as large as yours. However, all of you should be fine being short of space if you decide to celebrate your birthday there - it's really a small place, and those large groups (typically of locals) that I regularly see there are sitting more on than next to each other. Personally, I'd choose Vini da Gigio; or, if you are there in summer and want to sit in a beautiful garden, Al Bacco (see above for details). To put it more precisely, I'd choose one of those two if I really wanted to celebrate my birthday in Venice. But if I wanted to have a really unforgettable meal, and the informal & lively atmosphere you were asking for, I'd go to Noventa di Piave and eat there at the Bacaro (details, once again, above). However you decide, remember to book early.

Thank you for the information. I have not been able to access alla Botte's website. Vini da Gigio looks promising.
Thanks again

Franco, not two antipasti. I meant two main dishes with vegetables, which I referred to as "entrees".

The food was good. The atmosphere was better.

Thanks for your reply.

bookmarking

Just a quick note to tell that - after a long and unexpected absence for reasons of work - I'm back on Fodor's.

Definitely bookmarking!

Try La Bitta, Calle Lunga San Barnaba. We ate there twice, about two weeks ago. 80 Euro for two.

Hi Franco,
You have been so helpful with dining and food suggestions for Venice for our last trips - thank you. We are returning to Venice on May 16 for 10 days, and I wonder if you have any new suggestions for recipes - fish, produce - available during that time? As before, I appreciate your helpful advice.

Hello roamer, please allow for a few days - next week, I'll certainly have something for you!

Grazie, Franco -
I await your response!
Ciao,
Roamer

After a long interruption, this thread is finally back!

First of all, a restaurant update - a place that I discovered this winter though I knew it for years already. No, this is not an error... Trattoria da 'a Marisa (Fondamenta S. Giobbe 652, at the far end of Cannaregio) is a simple restaurant famous with Venice insiders - and notably with locals. In Venice, I think it's the last of those old-fashioned "set menu" places that have nothing at all to do with set menu tourist traps - it's the oldest form of Italian trattorias, where they're doing just one menu per evening, take it or leave it, and everyone's paying the same price, with or without wine, whether you take all courses or skip some of them. At Marisa's, furthermore, all guests have to show up at the same hour. That's pretty entertaining, and yet on my first visit, years ago, I wasn't impressed at all: a so-so fish menu. However, I knew that Marisa has always been famous for meat rather than fish; the problem is just that she was almost never doing meat menus, don't ask me why. In the meantime, her daughter is the new chef (Marisa is over 80 now and finally off to her pension, for merely two years now), and my impression is that she's preparing meat menus slightly more often than her mother, at least in winter - when I called on my last visit, the programme for the next week had as many meat days as fish days. So I went on a meat day, and it was truly excellent. One dish holds a special place: a risotto con secole, an all-but-extinct Venetian specialty I had never seen anywhere before. Secole are the few fibres of beef that can be retrieved from between the vertebras; once food for the poorest of the poor, and: DELICIOUS! Closed Monday evenings and Wednesday evenings.

Second, an update for gelato buffs (I know it's the wrong season - sorry!): GROM, Campo S. Barnaba 2761. Some wonderful flavours made of Slow Food protected ingredients; some others can be a little disappointing, though. All in all, nonetheless absolutely worth a visit (next summer, that is).

And now for recipes for roamer's upcoming May visit (we talked about it on another thread)!
First of all, May is still artichoke season in Venice, and as far as artichokes, many recipes are already on this thread. But here's one more - a favourite of mine: rooster with artichokes. A few words on rooster are overdue on this thread: if you've never eaten rooster, you can't imagine its (incredibly delicious) taste; it's not at all similar to chicken, much more intense, almost game-like. And it's amazing how rare roosters are nowadays; for many years, I always wondered where they end up. The explanation is as simple as depressing: not every male chicken is a rooster, only sexually mature male chicken is; and in our industrialized agriculture, chickens don't simply grow that old. Modern, economically perfected breeds (the so-called turbo chickens) never grow older than six weeks; not just because they're butchered at that age, most of them would die anyway if someone would try to keep them longer alive: their unnaturally accelerated growth is weakening their hearts so much that they usually croak after six weeks anyway. So what we've got used to eat are baby chicken, though totally unnaturally fat and large babies. No adult chickens, no roosters. What a sad loss! In Venice, they know the difference; and in the Veneto region, a sufficient number of farmers is continuing to grow older chicken breeds to provide Venice with roosters. They're unavailable in summer; but in May, I'm sure you'll still find them. After this lengthy introduction, here's the recipe (from the Marche region - Venetians, forgive me!):
1 middle-sized rooster, cut into pieces
6 artichoke bottoms
2 tablespoons olive oil
half a glass of dry white wine
1 yolk
1 lemon (the juice only)
2 cloves of garlic, chopped
salt, pepper
Put the rooster pieces into a pot with the olive oil and the garlic, cook on medium heat for 10 minutes, add the wine, the artichoke bottoms cut into segments, salt and pepper. Let cook for about 40 minutes. In the meantime, whisk the yolk, the lemon juice and a scoop of water. Finally, pour this mixture over the rooster and serve immediately. Great, great food!
Second, May is also asparagus season, of course. The Veneto is big on asparagus; they love to use it for risotto, and I recommend to follow their example, but attention: they're sometimes offering "asparagi da risotto", which I recommend to be careful about; they're not just tart, they are, to my taste at least, outright bitter. I'd rather stick to "normal" asparagus, and use them for risotto all the same. I'm not sure whether they're still available in May, but if so, it's fun to add a bunch of carlini to the risotto - a wild herb that tastes much the same as the asparagus, so doesn't add a different flavour to the risotto, but enhances the taste of asparagus. A VERY Venetian ingredient. Needless to say, Venetians are preparing their risotti with Vialone Nano (a local rice variety).
And finally, a more sophisticated Venetian asparagus recipe: pasta with shrimps and asparagus.
3 hg (see above - Jan 3, 2008 - for this Italian weight) asparagus
half an onion, chopped
2 cloves of garlic, chopped
4 hg fresh shrimps (gamberi)
1 tablespoon butter
a small glass of prosecco
a small glass of cream
salt, pepper, nutmeg
400 grams tagliolini or similar pasta
Clean asparagus (if anybody doesn't know how to, please consult alternative sources, I'm getting tired of writing ), cut into pieces of 1 centimeter. Husk shrimps, cut large ones into pieces. Melt butter, add onion, garlic, asparagus. Pour in the prosecco, salt, cover, let gently cook for about 10 minutes (until done but not tender). In the meantime, bring the salted water for the pasta to a boil, cook the pasta al dente (!!). While the pasta is cooking, add the cream to the sauce, let reduce just a little bit, add shrimps for just enough time to heat them through, season to taste with salt, pepper and nutmeg. Obviously, mix pasta and sauce and serve instantly.

ttt

I know you may call this a tourist trap (who cares), but I have been visiting Venice since 1961 and the best Tiramisu in the world can be found at my favourite restaurant in Venice, Trattoria alla Madonna. The rest of the menu is not bad either. http://www.ristoranteallamadonna.com/eng/locale.htm

Well, Alla Madonna is a tourist trap insofar as the quality of your meal depends on your acquaintance with the staff. If you have a chance to visit with a Venetian who is a frequent guest there, don't let it pass. Otherwise, it's a hit-and-miss experience. I don't know the Tiramisu, though, so I don't say it can't be the best in the world.

ttt

Ah, Franco...So happy to see you back! i was beginning to worry. Mille grazie for the information and recipes! I will seek out a rooster, and the pasta/asparagus/shrimp I am certain will be a favorite. Never heard of carlini, but I will look for it. Can't wait - Venezia pulls my heart.

hi franco,

thank you for posting a recipe for "rooster" - readers of another of my threads will know that we produced several of these this year as a by-product of raising some more hens, so I'm always on the look-out for new ways of serving the.

you're right too about the taste - they are strong, almost gamey, though they can need quite a long cooking - I'd be inclined to give any rooster of ours at least twice the time you suggest!

my problem isn't getting the birds, it's getting the artichoke hearts! they are not too hot on the ground here in Cornwall, certainly not this time if year if at all. perhaps i can bring some back with us from Rome next week!

Franco - your advice and information is so very welcome and appreciated!
2 girlfriends and I will be in Venice for just 3 nights in early May and were lucky enough to be able to reserve the la rosa de venezia apartment. I know it might be a little cozy for three adults, but it truly looks to be worth it! I will be the main cook and although our first night we will probably eat out (at one of the great recommendations posted on this thread, perhaps osteria alla botte) but for the other two nights I would like to do some cooking based on what I can pick up during some morning market trips. Your recipes look fantastic and certainly easy to follow. Any suggestions for a nice main dish (other than the rooster)? We are coming from Nova Scotia, which has loads of fresh local seafood, but we're pretty much open to anything. Looking forward to more posts from you! jenn

Franco - your advice and information is so very welcome and appreciated!
2 girlfriends and I will be in Venice for just 3 nights in early May and were lucky enough to be able to reserve the la rosa di venezia apartment. I know it might be a little cozy for three adults, but it truly looks to be worth it! I will be the main cook and although our first night we will probably eat out (at one of the great recommendations posted on this thread, perhaps osteria alla botte) but for the other two nights I would like to do some cooking based on what I can pick up during some morning market trips. Your recipes look fantastic and certainly easy to follow. Any suggestions for a nice main dish (other than the rooster)? We are coming from Nova Scotia, which has loads of fresh local seafood, but we're pretty much open to anything. Looking forward to more posts from you! jenn

hi Jenn,

when we were in venice at Easter, as well as the lovely fish, they were selling very nice lamb in the butchers round the rialto markets. we bought a joint that looked rather like a shoulder [their butchering is different] and just roasted it with some potatoes and steamed some asparagus to go with it. the butcher even gave us some rosemary to go with the lamb, and the market stall we bought the potatoes from asked if we wanted to roast them or for salad.

there is a terrific cheese stall on the little street that leads to the market [looks like a cross between a market stall and a shop] where we bought some pecorino romano, and we got some strawberries [fragoli] for afters from the market.

we got by with a lot of gesturing and "si", "non", and "bene".

I'm sure Franco will have some better ideas, but the best guides [if he will forgive my saying so] are your own eyes and noses, rather than going out with a pre-determined idea of what you want. look for what looks fresh and seasonal and you can't go wrong.

have a great trip,

regards, ann

PS - if they are still in season, if you get the chance do try the tiny crabs or "molche". delicious!

Jenn, if you study this whole long thread, you're going to find many more main dishes than just the rooster... but I'm going to add one more artichoke main dish for you (and roamer and everybody else) next week, when I'll have more time: duck breast with artichokes, excellent and very Venetian, as well (duck is one of Venice's favourite varieties of meat). If the recipe isn't online by Friday 19th, please remind me, I'm sometimes lazy on recipe translating.

Ann, moeche (or moleche) season is March-April, and they return by October-November... but it's not entirely impossible to find some moeche at other times of the year, too. As far as cheese, I can still confirm my recommendation of Casa del Parmigiano, mentioned more than once on this thread, but as you said, there are many other shops selling fine cheese in Venice, as well. At long last, I also came to terms with "large" Aliani (the delicatessen shop run by the brother of the Casa del Parmigiano owner) on Ruga S. Giovanni (near the Rialto market). For many years, my impression was that they're a little too arrogant for pleasant shopping, but recently, I found them quite nice, too... whether they've changed or I have, I don't know. Anyway, they have excellent cheese, too, and a larger choice than Casa del Parmigiano since the shop is simply much larger.

but recently, I found them quite nice, too... whether they've changed or I have, I don't know. >>

sometimes this seems to happen, doesn't it, Franco? I'm sure it was them, not you.

sorrry about my mis-spelling of the moeche. we ate them at a restaurant on Burano, and loved them, whilst all the while my DH was talking about how un-sound it was, ecologically, to eat them....didn't stop him joining in!

hoping to eat lots of carciofi in Rome, and courgette flowers too.

Franco,
Don't mean to bother you, but you did say if you hadn't replied by February 19, remind you. I'm hoping for the duck breast with artichoke hearts recipe - both favorites of mine, and I had not realized that duck is one of Venetian's favorites. Anything else you can recommend to cook - in addition to what you have generously provided - for first two weeks in May would be greatly appreciated. Can't wait to be there!

So sorry - I've been (and still am) super-busy these days. But here goes:

Duck breast with artichokes

6.5 hg (see far above for this typical Italian weight) duck breast
4 botoi artichokes (the more rustic relatives of castraure – probably unavailable in May) or 3 small normal artichokes
1 table spoon fresh lemon juice
1 small red onion
2 cloves of garlic
parsley
olive oil
1 small glass of duck or similar gravy (or strong broth)
100 millilitres liquid cream
salt, pepper, nutmeg

Skin the duck breasts (but keep the skin), cut into slices (thin, but not overly thin).
If you happen to have botoi, cut off the leaf point and remove (few) outer leaves, that’s enough to clean them – don’t bother about the “hay” inside. If botoi season is over, you know that they’re selling artichoke bottoms already cleaned in Venice. Anyway, slice artichokes thinly and mix slices with lemon juice.
Slice onion thinly, as well. Chop garlic and parsley.
Heat about 3 table spoons olive oil in a pan, stir-fry duck slices shortly, take duck out of the pan. Add more olive oil (perhaps another 3 spoons), roast artichoke slices over medium heat for about 5 minutes. Add onion, continue until onion is very tender. For the last 30 seconds or so, add garlic and parsley. Pour in the broth/gravy and the cream. (I know the gravy is kind of a problem since you’ll find duck breasts already filetted in Venice, or you’d have to buy a whole duck. But either the butcher has some leftovers for you, or intense beef or other red meat broth would be fine, as well.) Put duck slices back into the pan for a short while, just until hot. Season to taste with salt, pepper and nutmeg.
Venetians are serving this with polenta; I for one like it even better with roast potatoes, i.e. waxy potatoes (ask for patate sode, and try to get produce from Bologna - Venice isn't big on potatoes) first boiled, then fried, and for frying them, I render down the duck breast’s skin, previously, which makes for really delicious roast potatoes. (Rather French style than Venetian, admittedly, but then, this broth-and-cream sauce is pretty similar to French cuisine, as well.)

As for duck in Venice, yes it’s a favourite – originally, wild duck (germano, in Venice) from the lagoon, which is still to be found regularly with Venetian butcheries, but since the request for duck is way exceeding available germani, duck breeding has long become a Veneto specialty, as well, and they have really great domestic ducks there, tasty old breeds.

hi franco,

getting the duck should be no problem here, but the artichokes i think I'd have to grow myself.

so it'll probably take two or three years before I'm in a position to make this delightful sounding dish.

thanks for posting it though!

Franco, we'll be in Venice this Christmas, and so I've printed this in anticipation.

Thanks

Peter

Franco,
Thank you so much for taking time to add this recipe - can't wait to try it! I hope you soon get some relief from your super busy schedule.

UPDATE - SUMMARY
Attention! Almost no new information on this post, mostly summarizing older updates!

Today, I've been asked to provide an update to this thread. Well, regular readers know that all updates are hidden in the postings above this one, but for new readers, this may be less than enjoyable, so let's summarize what has been updated by and by since 2006:

- Osteria alla Botte is slightly more upscale in the meantime; they're no longer operating the "standing room" bar near the entrance, it's now dining-only. The food is better than ever, the prices are still low (for Venice - perhaps not what you'd call low prices anywhere else in Italy, that is).
- Do Spade is open again, but with different owners. It's always empty, and after reading bad reviews, I don't feel like giving them a try.
- At Villa Condulmer, that's the only new information on this post, the ownership has changed, everything has been renovated; the new chef has been working with the old one in the old restaurant, so the food should be pretty similar to what it was; I've heard it's even better now. I still have to return to try it.
- Due Mori doesn't exist anymore.
- Maria Boscolo has changed owner, but not the staff and recipes, so this place is as good as ever (actually, perhaps even a teeny bit better)

As for every other recommendation from the first post, and as for everything else I recommended later on (please check, there are quite a few hidden between the recipes!), I'm not aware of any changes, and in most cases, I know for sure that nothing has changed.

To sum the summary up, the very best restaurant serving typical Veneto inland fare is Al Bacaro in Noventa di Piave IMO (see post of January 9th, 2008); the best for seafood is Al Cason in Mestre (see the initial post).

thanks for posting franco. sadly I don't have any trips to venice planned at present but I can dream.

bookmark

BM

bookmarking

ttt

Ciao, Franco!

I have just read very good things about this restaurant and wonder if you have been, or have heard of it:


http://www.trattorialaguna.it/HomeE.htm

No, ek, I've never heard of this place, but will certainly try it! And will let you and everybody know afterwards...

topping this wonderful thread for Tinks......

Topping for Caroline

ek, you name it - we play it. Here's my late-breaking review of Trattoria Laguna: that restaurant is certainly good; it's specializing in fish, and specifically in oven-baked rombo (turbot), which was excellent on a recent evening. I forgot to ask, but I'm absolutely convinced it was rombo chiodato (the most precious - and expensive - variety), and for a reasonable price; the helping, however, was accordingly pathetic. Antipasto and primo were good, not extraordinary; but the desserts (all home-made, and a vast selection!) were - and that's rare in Italy - the best thing they offered: really excellent. All in all, I would equal Trattoria Laguna with Vini da Gigio (in Venice center) - good food and service, pretty but not too posh setting, not cheap but not excessively expensive either; a seafood version of Vini da Gigio, so to speak.

On special request by roamer (on another thread): recipes for April!
First of all, April is of course artichoke season (cf. recipes above), asparagus season (cf. above), and there could still be some fine moeche (cf. above, once more), whose main season is right now, in March.

And here comes the recipe I promised on that other thread: seppie e piselli, cuttlefish with fresh peas, a dish from the Marche region. Cut a kilo of cleaned seppie (without the ink, that is) in chunks; they go into the pot with minced onion (quantity to your taste), half a glass of best olive oil (the quality of the oil is crucial here) and a pinch of hot pepper. After 15 minutes, add half a glass of dry white wine; after another 15 minutes, the peas (one kilo of peapods that you've podded meanwhile). Heat for another 20 minutes, season with salt and pepper.
That's a signature spring dish, and I love it - IF prepared with calamari instead of seppie, however. For me, seppie are too tart for the delicate young peas; but of course, seppie is what the original recipe says. However, I always take the liberty of using cleaned (!) calamari - cleaned, that means to remove not just the entrails (with the ink bag), but also and equally important the thin transparent rosy outer skin.

Another ingredient that we didn't talk about so far, and whose season is April, is fave (fava beans). Just in case you or anybody doesn't know them, they're no closer relatives of beans than lentils or peas are - actually a different legume. Here: http://www.gingerandtomato.com/ricetta-pasta/una-ricetta-di-stagione-le-trofie-con-fave-e-pancetta/ is a nice picture. You don't just have to pod them like other legumes, but except for really tiny specimens, you also have to remove the outer skin of every bean (it's easy, though). Here are two fava recipes:

Marò, from Liguria; you can eat it either as a spread or as a pasta sauce (I prefer it on bread). The difficulty is to determine the quantity of the fava beans... it's really so different how much the pods add to the total weight. The original recipe says it's for 560 grams of fave (with the pods), but that would only work if the beans inside the pods are really really large (and thus heavier than the pods). As a rule, I'd say you need to buy twice as much - 1.2 kilos, sometimes (if the beans are very small) even more. Pod them as described above. Add 2 tablespoon of grated pecorino (not too salty!), 85 milliliters of best olive oil, 6 fresh mint leaves, 1.5 table spoons of lemon juice, freshly ground black pepper. Put everything in the food blender and blend. Finally, stir in (by hand, not in the food blender!) half a teaspoon of finely minced garlic. (Yes, this is an uncooked preparation, that's why you can never make it with dried fava beans.)

Next, I dare giving you a recipe that is not at all traditional (it's my own creation), but it's such a nice spring dish... and with artichokes, too, hence perfect for Venice: ravioli with fava beans and artichokes, with a durum wheat flour & egg pasta dough. Clean fave (you don't need many, just one or two handful of beans). Chop pancetta, fry in a little olive oil until crispy, add some minced garlic and immediately afterwards the fava beans, brown them, add salt and pepper and a generous amount of lemon juice, let simmer until done. This is your ravioli stuffing (let cool before making the ravioli!). The sauce is more or less the same as in the artichoke pasta here above (post of June 7th, 2006 - hey, it's quite a time since this thread has been on!), but with less lemon juice and less bechamel sauce, but in that bechamel sauce, this time, goes a dash of white wine. And I don't stir the butter into the artichoke mash before blending it with the bechamel sauce, but brown it separately and pour it on top of the ravioli and the sauce.

franco, thank you so much! I've been checking the thread - hoping you were OK but busy. I will certainly try the seppi e piselli, but with calamari. I didn't know that you were supposed to remove the outer skin.
I've seen recipes for fava beans, but they are not available where I live. I will look forward to both of these preparations. Venice in 21 days - can't wait!

I hope the artichokes will still be around when we are in Venice, May 24-28th. I have taken note of all the delicious recipes on this thread, and look forward to cooking while there. Thanks Franco.

Yes, in May, you'll still find artichokes, no problem.

roamer, hold on. I hope to dig up some further fish recipes for you.

If it's permissible to wander afield for spring recipes, here's one from Lazio that combines artichokes, fave *and* peas. It's called vignarola, and it's served as a first or second course.

In a large, broad saucepan, cook 3 scallions (green onions) and 40 g of diced pancetta (optional) in 2 tbsp olive oil until transparent Add a small head of Romaine lettuce, cut in narrow strips, and 4 (6 of the smaller Venetian variety) artichokes, cleaned and cut in small wedges. Mix well and salt and pepper to taste. Cook over low heat until tender, progressively adding 300 g of shelled fave, 300 g of shelled peas and, if necessary, a little water. Generally served tepid with an optional dollop of very good olive oil.

franco, I leave for Italy in two weeks. Will be there from March 26th - April 4th.

What should I look for in fresh veggies at this time of year in Venice? In Rome? I love artichokes and asparagus, but I don't know if we'll be too early or too late for either. I plan on hitting the Rialto market first day there. And the market at Campo de Fiori first day in Rome.

Grazie!!!

sarge - when we were venice at the end of March a few years ago, the rialto market was full of lovely asparagus, new potatoes [ie the waxy sort you can steam and eat hot or cool and eat in salad] and of course moeche. we ate these as a starter at a restaurant along the main street on Burano, breaking our rule of not going into a place where we are invited in by the owner/waiter, and we were very glad we did. the moeche were delicious and the rest of the meal [a large fish, grilled and shared between us] equally good. I think that he was relieved not to be serving burger and chips to our children [who ate what we ate] and made a special effort!

other good things in the market were the lamb [we roasted it for our Easter sunday lunch and loved it] and fruit and salads of course.

Franco, I have never cooked seppie [we don't often see it here in Cornwall, though I'm sure they catch and export it] but i will certainly try your recipe with squid, which is plentiful and cheap here. sadly, no moeche though!

sarge, you'll be in Italy at the same time as roamer, so same applies as above - of course you'll find artichokes and asparagus. It might just be that you'll have to wait until Rome for the fave; end of March seems still early for them.

Zerlina, actually, this thread is wandering afield all the time - it has been a "Rialto market ingredients" rather than a "Venetian cuisine" thread for long, so vignarola definitely fits the bill. I don't simply know enough true Venetian recipes (plus it would be a shame not to use the gorgeous produce that's available in Venice for great dishes from other regions, as well!). For example, I have absolutely no idea what Venetians are doing with their terrific cardoons. Do you know anything, Zerlina?

I've never cooked cardoons, and I haven't the foggiest notion how the Venetians cook them. Googling >cardi ricetta/ricette< brought up many hits, several that seem Piedmontese, one called "alla toscana", one from the Salento, a Sicilian one, but I didn't see a Venetian one.

From Wikipedia re "cardoons":

While the flower buds can be eaten much as the artichoke, more often the stems are eaten after being braised in cooking liquid. Battered and fried, the stems are also traditionally served at St. Joseph's altars in New Orleans.

The stalks, which look like large celery stalks, can be served steamed or braised. They have an artichoke-like flavor. Cardoons are available in the market only in the winter months. In the U.S.A., it is rarely found in stores, but available in farmers' markets, where it is available through May, June, and July. The main root can also be boiled and served cold.[2] Acclaimed chef Mario Batali calls the cardoon one of his favorite vegetables and says they have a "very sexy flavor."[3]

Cardoons are also an ingredient in one of the national dishes of Spain, the Cocido madrileño, a slow-cooking, one-pot, meat and vegetable dinner simmered in broth.

In the Abruzzi region of Italy, Christmas lunch is traditionally started with a soup of cardoons cooked in chicken broth with little meatballs (lamb or more rarely, beef), sometimes with the further addition of egg (which scrambles in the hot soup - called stracciatella) or fried chopped liver and heart.

OH, and THANKS FRANCO!

i found this on the about.com website:

http://italianfood.about.com/library/rec/blr0327.htm

all you never thought you wanted to know about cardoons and weren't afraid to ask!

NB - they are apparently quite bitter in the Spring - they are an autumn/winter vegetable.

Yes, sarge, and the recipe for that cardoon soup from Abruzzo (with chicken liver and egg) is already on this thread - post of Jan. 3rd, 2008.

Ok... roamer, are you listening? Here are some more fish recipes for April.

First of all, a fish we never talked about so far is branzino, sea bass. Seems not exiting? Well - it is. In Venice, you'll get sea basses like nowhere else: branzini di valle, which are breeded, but yet better than any wild sea bass - they're breeded in the lagoon!, which is the very best habitat for sea basses. In April, the first specimens of the year should arrive on the market (read the signs carefully: "branzino", i.e. standard breeded fish, don't even think about it; "branzino di mare", wild sea bass; "branzino di valle", only insiders know it's the best one by far)... and for branzino, THE classic preparation (also Venice often uses it) is still one of the best (and definitely the best if you just want to sample the admirable quality of a branzino di valle): sea bass in a crust of salt. (The internet is full of instructions how to prepare it, so I assume nobody will need me, of all amateur chefs, to provide the recipe, right?)

Next, triglie (mullets) are available most times of the year, also in April. In Venice, they're available in two qualities (rarely at the same time, i.e. usually just one or the other): triglie di fango (mud mullets, from the lagoon) and triglie di scoglio (rock mullets). While I'm usually a great fan of lagoon fish, I clearly prefer rock mullets over mud mullets, but please judge yourself. Venetians say mud mullets should be poached, rock mullets fried, and it's true that I also prefer fried mullet over poached mullet. An excellent and simple recipe is triglie con paprika: season mullets with coarse sea salt and black pepper, fry in olive oil, sprinkle with (sweet, never hot) bell pepper powder.

A wonderful recipe from Lazio, but for a fish that you should find in Venice in April, is pasta e broccoli in brodo d'arzilla - ray soup (in Venice, though, ray is called razza, not arzilla):
Put 6 hg (see somewhere above for this Italian measure!) razza in a large pot with 1.5 liters of cold water, with some vegetables (a small carrot, a piece of celery stalk, perhaps half an onion) and salt; bring to a boil, let simmer for 30 minutes. Brown a large clove of garlic (minced) in olive oil, add a large salted anchovy fillet until it falls apart, half a hot pepper (minced), 3 chopped tomatoes, cook vividly for 5 minutes. Turn off the gas (or take pan away from the electric stove), add 3 hg broccoli (the florets only), let soak up the flavour for 10 minutes (still away from the heat, mind you!). Bone the fish, pour the fish soup over the broccoli, cook for 10 minutes, break 150 grams of spaghetti in rather short pieces, add to the soup, cook until al dente, put the ray flesh back into the soup shortly before serving.

And now, finally, a truly Venetian recipe (from Locanda Cipriani): Sampietro alla carlina, John Dory with scampi. Expensive, but great! And April is considered a good month for both John Dory and scampi. Douse 5 hg of John Dory fillets and 15 hulled scampi with flour, fry in olive oil, with salt and pepper, for 4 or 5 minutes, put in a fire-proof dish and in a warm (not hot) oven. Pour off the olive oil from the pan, add 150 grams of butter, melt, add a small amount of minced parsley, fry for 30 seconds, take off the heat. Sprinkle fish & scampi with chopped pickled cucumbers (cetriolini, in Italian) and rinsed capers (5 table spoons altogether), season with lemon juice and Worcester sauce, sprinkle with a few spoons of tomato sauce (home-made, of course!!), douse with the melted butter, serve immediately (with boiled potatoes).

We're proceding from the more classic to the more unusual recipes, today: one of the less-known ingredients available on the Rialto market (and April should be a good season) are chele di granchio, crab legs. A delicious though not traditional recipe (it's a chef's creation) is beans with crab and hot peppers: soak 250 grams of dried white beans overnight, cover with fresh cold water, add two large cloves of garlic, thyme, rosemary and laurel, a small celery stalk, a small potato (peeled) and two cherry tomatoes, bring slowly to a boil, boil until tender; don't add salt or it would cause the beans to take much longer until they are tender, and also their taste would suffer. It's important not to pour the cooking water away; immediately pour enough of that water back over the beans to half-cover them. Throw away herbs and celery, mash tomatoes, potato and garlic and add the mash to the beans, season heartily with salt and pepper, olive oil and a dash of vinegar. Add the mashed crab meat (you'll have boiled the chele di granchio well in advance, and shelled the meat, which is pretty difficult, but worth it), minced hot pepper and minced fennel green. Serve hot.

Finally, granseola, the so-called sea spider (in fact, another crab species, and one of the best) - a VERY Venetian animal, and its season is winter and spring. Tough kitchen work, as well, but with great results. I use them for a very old recipe (16th century): granseola stuffed with apple. Boil 4 granseole in salted water with a piece of cinnamon bark for about 10 minutes. Shell (that's the tough part!). Throw away the brown, grey and black entrails, keep the red ones (and the white meat, of course!); there is also some meat in the legs (use a tea spoon handle). Blend crab meat, 2 apples (diced), raisins, white bread (diced), salt, pepper, ground cinnamon, sugar (yes indeed!) and 4 egg yolks. Put back into the granseola shells, some cubes of butter on top, in the oven for 5 to 10 minutes (at medium heat). Serve with a sauce made from the upper halves of the shells, cooked in white wine. Haute cuisine...

One more that I forgot to add - another Venetian classic: sogliola al prosecco, sole with prosecco sauce, light, easy and delicious. The original recipe says sole fillets - I use the whole fish (disemboweled, of course) since it's tastier, I just cut away the (tiny) heads and use them for a fish stock, of which 50 milliliters go into this recipe. For the 6 hg of fillets that the recipe is asking for, you'll need 1.5 kilos of soles (no fish has less meat than the sole). Rinse the fish, dry, sprinkle with lemon juice, salt and pepper. Mix a table spoon of flour with 20 grams of butter. In a wide pan, bring those 50 milliliters of fish stock together with 150 milliliters of prosecco to a boil. Stir in the butter-with-flour. Put the soles into the pan, reduce heat, cover. Let simmer until done (turning them around once). Remove fish from the pan and keep warm. Mix a few cubes of cold butter into the sauce, salt and pepper to taste, pour over the fish and serve immediately with bread.

Oh, franco! Thank you so much - you have been busy! I learn more about fish in Venice from your posts than from all of the cook books I have read! I appreciate the information about branzino - see it frequently, but had no idea of the the different types. Now I know what to look for. I have enjoyed ray - razza - in restaurants, but was intimidated by the bones in the fresh fish - now I can try the ray soup. The granseola stuffed with apple is intriguing - who would think of fish combined with apple? and raisins? Am I brave enough to try it? Definitely will do the sogliola al prosecco - both favorites. Again, thank you for your time and kindness - ensuring that DH and I will eat very well a nostra casa in Venezia!

"ray - razza - was intimidated by the bones in the fresh fish"

Are you sure rays have bones? Aren't they elasmobranchs like sharks with no bones, just cartilage?

Wow Franco, you sure do know how to make a girl hungry!

Thanks for the recipes

constant - yes, I think that the ray's bones are really cartilage - but it is pretty tough stuff - not what you want to find in your soup!

Hi Franco. I haven't seen you around for awhile - I hope all is well.
We are leaving for Venice (and Vicenza) on April 18. You have been so helpful in the past by providing information on what is available in Venetian restaurants and food markets (especially fish!) and what is in season. I have used many of your recipes and will be taking them with me again. Just wondering if you have any recipes that you have discovered recently, or any new restaurants to try. As always, your thoughts are most welcome.

BOOKMARKING

Hello, roamer - this is my usual plea to wait a little. I'm going to reply after April 1st, i.e. after coming home from a current trip.

Roamer, I am not franco but I do have a newish restaurant recommendation in Vicenza - Antico Guelfo. Two sisters cook and the results are delicious, local and seasonable.

save

Thanks,franco, for your prompt response. I will look forward to hearing from you when you are home.
And tarquin, thanks for the restaurant recommendation. Antico Guelfo gets some great reviews on TripAdvisor. We will definitely try it. Any other suggestions for Vicenza?
We have never been there.

franco, wish I'd hit this thread a week ago. I was cooking sole for the first time (Dover sole) and that recipe for sogliola al prosecco sounds heavenly!

Good news is that I'll be back to Italy in October (or sooner) and will take this recipe with me. My adult DD is tagging along and she is a great cook. She'll be thrilled to add this to one of our dinners in Venice one night!

Grazie mille!
Paula

Thank you so much, Franco, and all others who have contributed. Franco, I have learned so much about the foods of Italy from your posts - I hope you know how many people you have educated and kept well-fed with the time you take with your very thoughtful posting.

Today I must especially thank you, as I am confined house-bound and immobilized by a recent foot surgery and bone graft. So, here I am, with foot elevated, but instead of feeling claustrophobic or bored, I have spent a heavenly day (and I am serious - the greater part of this day) in Venice! Last year I began planning a trip to Venice that had to be postponed due to foot problems (and a sick pet) but now I am planting positive thoughts of a quick and complete recovery by planning many hours of delightful walking through Venice (followed by Bologna and Umbria.)

Originally I thought of staying in an apartment for the very reason you mentioned. I love produce markets, and whenever I encounter one in a new city I am sorry that I am staying in a hotel with no means of cooking. However, I think now I have decided on a hotel, and am looking at Hotel San Salvador. I don't know for sure how much I will be able to walk each day, and it looks like I can reach many of your recommended trattoria quite easily from there. So,once again,thank you for all this information.

A quick question that may be a little off track. As I perused the websites of the various recommendations I viewed a photo of a wonderful looking frito misto. The batter looked so light it was transparent! Yum. I can see my DH and I enjoying that with gusto on our first night in Venice with our favorite cold beverage;o) The first thing I imagined accompanying such a plate was the delicious puntarelle salad we enjoyed in Rome. Finally, my question: would such a salad, or something similar be found in Venice? I know that is traditionally Roman, but I'm wondering if there's something similar - maybe a radicchio salad with a similar anchovy/oil/lemon dressing? Alternatively, what type of fresh salads can you recommend?

Thanks again. I apologize for being so long winded everybody, but besides a good meal, I live for a good conversation, and please bear with me--I'm housebound!
Grazie.

Hello Franco .. I will be taking my 14 year old niece to Venice in November.
I think staying in a hotel on the grand canal would be exciting for her.
Any suggestions ? Our budget would be around 250 euros per night. (or less)
Thank you ...

I know that is traditionally Roman, but I'm wondering if there's something similar - maybe a radicchio salad with a similar anchovy/oil/lemon dressing? Alternatively, what type of fresh salads can you recommend?>>

if i may butt in in Franco's absence, the restaurants that you will want to eat in will want to serve what is fresh and good in the market - so if it is the season for radicchio, by all means ask for that. otherwise a green salada [insalata verde] with a lemon dressing goes very well with fritto misto as it cuts through the oil on the fish.

Thanks, Annhig. Yes, I'm sure I'll have no problem finding wonderful accompaniments! I am learning to rely on what's in season for the best eating. If I master no other phrase in my fractured Italian, I want to have down: "What do you recommend tonight?" and "What ___ is in season?" and so on. I will have to do more reading and of course defer to Franco for advice on that. We will be in Venice the last week in September, followed by Bologna and then Umbria the first 2 weeks of October, if all goes well. Thanks again for your help.

hanabilly - sounds like a great trip.

to see what's in season in Venice, you need only make an early morning trip to the Rialto market to see what they are selling there - ask the name of it from the stall-holder, and then you can ask for it in the restaurant. IME italians love nothing better than talking about food [apart from eating it of course] and it is quite normal to have a long conversation about what they have and how it should be cooked.

any place that isn't prepared to do that probably isn't worth eating in.

Thanks again, Annhig.
" IME italians love nothing better than talking about food [apart from eating it of course] and it is quite normal to have a long conversation about what they have and how it should be cooked."
That's why, after just two short trips, I know they're my people ;o)

Ok, here I'm back. hanabilly, thank you for your kindness; I'm afraid Venice isn't big on salads, though, and the only exquisite Venetian salad I'm aware of is the one made of castraure and fennel whose recipe I've given above. Puntarelle are definitely Roman, yes, but the produce is available on Rialto market in top quality - I just don't know what Venetians are doing with it. I always buy puntarelle in Venice and prepare them in the classic Roman way; which makes by the way for an excellent combination with a near-Venetian specialty (from Trieste, that is) which couldn't be more appropriate to talk about this week: it's a classic Lent dish, and here we go (roamer, are you listening?):

Fritole con l'anima
(You're certainly aware that frittelle - fritole is Trieste dialect - are THE Venetian Carnival pastry; and frittelle con l'anima are the Lent version, so to speak.)
You need 2.5 hg (i.e. 250 grams, remember the Italian weight "etto", abbreviated hg?) flour, 10 g yeast (fresh, not dry), stirred into 25 milliliters of lukewarm milk, 1 tea spoon olive oil and 7.5 g salt. Take 2 table spoons from the total flour quantity and mix them with all other ingredients to make a yeast sponge, i.e. raise for 10 minutes, then knead in the remaining flour and as much lukewarm water as necessary to make a rather soft (but not liquid) dough. Raise (in a warm place protected from draft, do I need to stress that?) as usual, i.e. for an hour or more. Form ten balls, place half an anchovy fillet into each ball, fry the balls in peanut oil.

Since hanabilly mentioned frittura mista, I can't resist talking about Vecio Fritolin, http://www.veciofritolin.it. Their frittura is Venice's most famous, and it's abominable - an excellent proof that fame and quality are more often than not completely unrelated. That place, now a chic and expensive restaurant, used to be the most famous "fritolin" of Venice: a hole in the wall selling streetfood, frittura mista to be precise. And they still do, which is very likable in theory: you can still walk into that posh restaurant and order a cornet of frittura mista for 10 Euros. In practice, it's not at all likable: neither the food, which combines the unmistakable flavours of defrozen fish and cheap deep-frying oil, nor the behaviour of the staff who make you feel that this famous restaurant is doing you a favour by selling their lousy food in a cornet: you have to wait outside on the street until it's ready; and when I paid my 10-Euro-cornet with a 50-Euro-note, the guy behind the counter was indignated that I didn't have the precise amount, and actually dared saying, graciously: "This time, I'll give you change, but remember to have the precise amount ready next time." And the frittura looked exactly like the one the poor "normal" restaurant guests had on their plates, for a considerably higher price. So do yourself a favour and avoid that place at all costs.

Some far more pleasant recent finds: two excellent gelaterie, one, called Alaska, on Calle Larga dei Bari (almost on the corner of Lista dei Bari), selling very light water-based gelato, some highly unusual flavours are available; the other, called San Stae, on Salizzada San Stae (no big surprise, eh?) on the corner of Calle del Tintor, selling rich cream-based gelato, almost the opposite of Alaska's. Both are wonderful!
Plus a cicheti place that's a serious competition for Cantine di Vino già Schiavi (which means that we are talking about world-class snacks!): Osteria da Carla, San Marco 1535, in a court off Frezzeria (a very surprising place for good food!, in midst of the tourist bustle). Da Carla is also a restaurant, but I'm not sure I'll try it as such (quite expensive, too inventive for Italy). For the cicheti, I'll return again and again - they're also preparing Venice's best spritz con prosecco far and away (what goes into it is Adami prosecco, nothing less - Adami is one of the very best prosecco producers, so this is serious sparkling wine and nothing like the head-ache prompting swill that you know from your local supermarket).

Two more recipes for roamer or anybody who loves risotto:
Risotto ai carciofi, with artichokes
Buy 5 fondi di carciofi, cleaned and ready, on Rialto market; cut each in eight wedges, keep in fresh water with lemon juice in it until they go into the pot. In 1.5 table spoons of olive oil, gently fry one clove of garlic (minced), add artichoke wedges and 1.5 scoops of boiling chicken broth. Cover with a lid and let simmer for about 10 minutes, until most of the liquid is gone. Add 270 g risotto rice (preferably carnaroli), and cook as you would a normal risotto with more of the same chicken broth. A few minutes before done, season with salt and pepper. When done, turn off the gas and stir in: minced parsley, a few minced lemon balm leaves, butter and grated pecorino (1.5 table spoons each). Simple, but one of the best risotti I've ever had.

Risotto ai bruscandoli
This is a delicate and VERY Venetian spring dish - a risotto with wild spring herbs, readily available at Rialto in this season. What you definitely need are bruscandoli: hop sprouts, which need to be generously cleaned, much like asparagus - keep the tips apart, and keep only the tender part of the stem (which will be about half of it, probably). Agretti, or barba dei frati, is mostly eaten cold as a (previously boiled) salad, but can also be used for pasta or, of course, risotto; this herb has an English name, but I doubt many people will ever have heard it: Opposite Leaved Saltwort. And I've once mentioned carletti (they also come under the dialect name sciopeti sometimes) on this thread, but in a bout of absent-mindedness called them carlini (which I discovered only now): they are the young and tender leaves of a flower called Bladder Campion, in English. Of the three, the bruscandoli have the most interesting taste by far, and the agretti the least (actually, I think I prefer the risotto without agretti). It's also delicious as a bruscandoli-only risotto.
Gently fry in butter minced onion, the minced bruscandoli stems, minced agretti (if any) and minced carletti (minced, as well). Now cook a standard risotto with a light meat broth (beef, goose, veal - rather no chicken, here), perhaps also with a dash of white wine prior to the broth. A few minutes before done, season with salt and pepper. When done, add butter, grated parmesan, and the bruscandoli tips.

mmmm - we 're a bit short of hop plants in these 'ere parts - though where we used to live in Kent it would have been easy to get hold of them. the opposite leaved saltwort might be easier to find - I'll have to look on the beach. the bladder campion should be a doddle - though I've never cooked with it before.

but [and I suspect that this will not come as a surprise to you, Franco] none of these ingredients, not even the artichoke bottoms, will be available in our local market or supermarket.

now for a bit of foraging!

franco, you sure know how to make a girl happy.

Yes, Franco, I am listening, and my mouth is watering! So glad you are back and thank you for the recipes as well as sharing your recent finds. Our apartment is just around the corner from the San Stae gelateria, my husband knows it well!
We will definitely try the cicheti at Osteria da Carla. I'm happy to know about Adami prosecco - we have not always been pleased with the brands we tried, so will definitely seek out Adami.
One of the first things I will cook is the Risotto al Carciofi - haven't had artichoke bottoms since we were in Venice last year. I don't know "lemon balm leaves."? The Risotto ai bruscandoli looks most interesting, and will give me a chance to practice my rudimentary Italian at the Rialto market. I will write the names of all those herbs to take with me to the market. Thank you again!

roamer - as far as lemon balm, cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_officinalis; in Italian, it's melissa, and usually not difficult to find at Rialto. (Try at the popular vegetable stall that's in fact a hole-in-the-wall shop, just "around the corner", facing the fish market.)

I agree! Gelateria Alaska is one of my favorite gelaterie anywhere because of its clean, fresh, unusual flavors--I loved the carrot! Gelateria San Stae was practically next to my hotel--convenient and very good.

If I can find the initiative to trim five artichokes to the heart, that risotto sounds fabulous.

Thanks, Franco, re Lemon Balm. I know the vegetable stall you mention. We will be there!

Back checking your recipes with interest now we have moved to Venice! I was already considering risotto ai bruscandoli but was a bit perplexed by finding it translated as hop shoots, as using actual hops wouldn't be very nice I think. I managed a discreet sniff of some a copule of days ago, though, and they didn't smell hoppy

caroline - I have definitely heard before of people cooking hop shoots - but only early in the season like now. I think they get that hoppy smell later on, when they are dried.

have you really moved to Venice? how wonderful.

and are you going to change your screen-name?

Well, but that's no question of translation: bruscandoli ARE hop sprouts, cf. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humulus_lupulus, and the corresponding English article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humulus_lupulus - and there's definitely nothing wrong with eating hop. Also much later in season, the ripe flower cones are a delicious spice, much used in meat dishes in Styria, where they're growing plenty of hop.

Caroline, so cool that you are in Venice! How long will you be there, and is this an extended vacation or are you working, etc?

franco - hops are of course grown in the UK too, and used in the making of beer, but not eaten, so far as I'm aware.

I suspect a whole thesis could be written on why italians and austrians have a tradition of eating them and brits don't.

Franco, I wasn't doubting the translation, I was just surprised by the idea of eating hop shoots - since hops in the only form I've encountered them before (the flowers dried for making beer) wouldn't taste very nice IMO - although interesting to hear they are used as a spice (in very small quantities I assume?). Ann, your explanation makes sense, that they only smell what we know as 'hoppy' after drying.

Yes, we've moved to Venice - for good we hope, but we'll see how things pan out. Just enjoying ourselves at present, planning to do an intensive Italian course to really get our Italian up to speed, then we'll look for TEFL work within commuting distance. If we can't make a go of it in Venice, then we'll look elsewhere in Italy - but at least we'll have had a year (or whatever) of living here.

P.s. Ann, forget to say, I looked at changing my screen name but it seems it's not possible, unless I delete my existing profile & create a new one. So not sure.

caroline i was teasing, sort of - "carolinadivenezia" has a nice ring though!

can't you just sign in as a new person, keeping the old profile or is there something technical that stops one doing that?

you probably know this, but there is a language school in Dorsoduro somewhere:

http://www.istitutovenezia.com/en/

I looked at them when i was researching language schools and ended up on their newsletter mailing list which proved very interesting. I don't know if there are any others in Venice but they would give you somewhere to start.

Hi Ann. (Sorry to hijack your thread brirfly, Franco!) No, apparently not, sadly. Thanks - that is actually the school we've applied to! The Edinburgh ICI had offers from there and another one not actually in Venice. I realise you're proabably not near an ICI, but may be worth becoming a member of one (I think we paid c.£30 for 2)if you are thinking of doing a course in Italy - 50% off no' bad!

ICI?

Buona Pasqua a tutti!

ok, caroline, I did what I should ahve done before posting, and looked up ICI, and got the chemical company.

then i googled "ICI Edinburgh" and struck gold. Sadly there is not an "istituto italiano di cultura" in Cornwall, the nearest one is in London.

I take your point about joining the Edinburgh one anyway to get the discounts [couldn't find that on the London website, but I didn't look very hard, I have to accept].