Susanne07

My husband and I plan to visit Europe next May for the 1st time. On our wishlist at the moment are Paris, Mont-St-Michel, Giverny, Geneva, Lucerne, Zurich, Salzburg and Vienna. I would like information on travel times between the cities and if it is best to drive, fly or use the train. We are not keen on driving in Paris but are wondering how easy it is to get to Mont-St-Michel and Giverny using public transport. Are we better to fly from France to Switzerland and then use trains for travel within the country? And the same with Austria? I have read that parking and the cost of petrol are big problems with hiring a car.- true??
Look forward to hearing others tips and hints.

swandav2000

Hi Susanne07,

No need to fly from France to Switzerland as the fast train (TGV) runs from Paris to Geneva in just over three hours; it's quicker than flying! And then, yes, use the excellent train system to get around Switzerland.

You can use the Swiss rail site for train schedules for the whole continent. It's at

www.rail.ch

Be sure to use the European date format of day.month.year, and the 24-hour clock, as you input your request.

Do you have your flights yet? If not, try to get an open-jaw so that you fly into Paris and out of Vienna so that you don't have to backtrack.

How many days will you have for this trip? With six major stops, you'll need about three weeks to do justice to each stop.

Have fun!

s

ira

Hi S,

Giverny is an easy daytrip from Paris.

I think that MSM should be at least an overnight.

www.bahn.de is a very good website for train schedules all over Europe.

Fro ticket prices to/from/in France use www.voayges-sncf.com.

For Switzerland http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm

For Austria http://www.oebb.at/

For airfare, www.whichbudget.com.

I think that you would want to schedule 8 nights in France, 7 in CH, 7 in Austria.

Enjoy your planning.

suze

How long do you have for this trip? The places you mention sound like at least a 3 week itinerary to me.

Take the train Paris to Geneva, that part couldn't be easier.

I know you can get to Mont St Michel without a car for an overnight stay, sorry no details but a girlfriend did that solo her last Paris trip.

Susanne07

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. We don't yet have firm dates or a firm itinerary but 3 weeks is probably what we will spend in Europe.
Coming from Australia so want to make it worthwhile - will also spend some time in England first.

StuDudley

Why are you only visiting large cities? IMO, the charm of France & Switzerland is found in the small villages, beautiful countryside, and the fantastic Alps. I would place Geneva at the bottom of my list of interesting cities I've visited.

Here is what I would do to combine countryside, Alps, and cities.

Fly to Paris & spend 6 nights there - including a trip to Normandy, Giverny (we're not big fans of Giverny), and possibly Versailles.

Take the 9:10 TGV to Geneva, arriving at 12:30 & rent a Swiss car (with a highway sticker already attached). Drive 40 mins south to Lake Annecy & stay somewhere near Tailloires. Visit old Annecy & explore the Alps, beautiful scenery, food, & lakes in that region. In clear weather you can see Mt Blanc.

Either take a day trip to Chamonix or stay overnignt in Chamonix to see all the wonders around Mt Blanc. Best would be a day-trip so you could keep an eye on the weather to ensure good views. Spend about 4-5 nights in the Annecy/Chamonix region.

Then head east to the heart of the Swiss Alps & stay in either Gstaad or Grimentz for 2 nights - exploring the area and taking in a mountaintop view from either Stockhorn (Gstaad) to Sex Rouge near Grimentz if the weather is clear. This is rural Switzerland.

Next head over to the less rural Junfrau area, and stay in Murren for 2-3 nights and take trains, gondolas, rack-railways, etc to get you arround. Forget about the car for this portion of the trip.

Next drive to Lucern & spend 3 nights there. Make sure you don't arrive on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday when most things will be closed.


Dump the car in Lucern & take the 8:30 train to Salzburg, which arrives at 3:30 ( 1 train change). Spend 2 nights in Salzburg.

Take the 3 hr train to Vienna (many departures) and spend 2-4 nights there. Fly home from Vienna.

Stu Dudley

swandav2000

Hi again,

StuDudley's itinerary is pretty good (I love the Gstaad part) except for the car part. In about 15 trips to Switzerland since 1995, I've used a car twice -- and regretted it both times. Most of the places you'll want to go, like mountaintops and mountain villages, do not allow cars. And having a car in a big city is only expensive trouble.

Using trains in Switzerland is easy and FUN! Especially if you want to stay in a car-free town like Mürren or Wengen, a car is really a liability.

s

StuDudley

We were in Gstaad & Grimintz last week & used the car quite a bit to get to mountaintop lookouts, explore the beautiful countryside, see adjacent villages that don't have train service, and do it all on our own schedule - not the train's schedule. We never touched the car for about 5 days in Murren.

Stu Dudley

traveller1959

Stu Dudley has proposed an excellent itinerary.

And, yes, I would strongly second driving a part of the whole trip.

A trip to Europe would not be complete without some driving through breathtaking landscape and small villages. It is really fun driving those mountain roads! (They are safe and wide and excellently maintained.)

It is just a small section of the whole trip and it will add some value to your trip.

swandav2000

Holy cow!

"A trip to Europe would not be complete without some driving through breathtaking landscape and small villages"

To think that all my trips haven't been complete!

Bit of an overstatement, dontcha think? I might agree if we were talking about rural France or Italy, but definitely wrong about CH.

s

StuDudley

We stayed in Grimentz for 2 lovely nights, and there was no train service there - so there was also no service to the beautiful dam above Griments, and also to all the other lovely villages (Chandollan) in the Valley d'Anniviers. There was also no train service to the valley west of us - the Valley d'Herrens where there was more spectacular scenery & cute villages (Evolene).

When we drove into Chandollan, there was a family waiting for a bus at a bus stop. We took about 40 mins to explore the interesting lower old village. When we returned, the family was just loading themselves into the bus. We got to explore an interesting village in 40 mins - they got to wait in at bus stop for 40 (or more) mins.

Cars are necessary (IMO) in this region of the Swiss Alps, but not necessary for the Junfrau area since most of the sites & many hotels are up steep cliffs which are not driveable.

Stu Dudley

suze

The trains in Switzerland are pretty darn good (understatement). Could I have seen more renting a car? Probably. But driving for me personally in a foreign country is too stressful a proposition.

Susanne07

We're reluctant to drive because it will be the "wrong" side of the road (we're Australians) and some of the written travel guides seem to think that parking is a problem in Europe. Have also read that theft especially from hire cars is fairly high.

swandav2000

Hi again,

Susanne07, rest assured that you will not need to drive on your trip! The places you are going to are linked by (very) convenient trains, and believe me, using the trains is just FUN! Use the site I gave you above to see all the schedules; I sometimes print out the schedules for easy reference during my day.

Stu D, While it's true that Grimentz has no train station, it is linked to Sierre by bus. And while you felt sorry for that family who waited for 40 minutes, I rejoice with them. I really enjoy lingering and relishing each spot -- when I have 30 or 40 minutes to kill, I sit and slurp on an ice cream cone or a cup of coffee, watching the scenery or watching the interesting folks parade by or passing the time of day with vendors or passers-by. I enjoy memorizing the views! I do think that a car almost requires one to travel TOO fast, to accumulate four or six or ten villages before nightfall, and that kind of travel just turns me off! I'm very thankful that I haven't been forced into that mode, that I've had the freedom to spend a week or several weeks in my chosen destination, and to take my time getting to know it.

Anyway, have fun Susanne07!

s

traveller1959

>>>We're reluctant to drive because it will be the "wrong" side of the road (we're Australians) and some of the written travel guides seem to think that parking is a problem in Europe. Have also read that theft especially from hire cars is fairly high.<<<

I have just come back from a trip to England where I had been driving on the wrong side of the road. You get used to it very quickly and it is part of the adventure.

Parking might be a problem in some big metropolises (like Paris), but certainly not in the Alps.

Regarding thefts: Please forget those horror stories! Switzerland is one of the safest countries in the world.

Of course, nobody is pushing you to drive. You can do the trip just by riding trains. You will only miss the chance to see a little bit of landscape and rural towns. And you will miss the fun of driving on mountain roads.

StuDudley

>>Stu D, While it's true that Grimentz has no train station, it is linked to Sierre by bus. And while you felt sorry for that family who waited for 40 minutes, I rejoice with them. I really enjoy lingering and relishing each spot -- when I have 30 or 40 minutes to kill, I sit and slurp on an ice cream cone or a cup of coffee, watching the scenery or watching the interesting folks parade by or passing the time of day with vendors or passers-by.<<

Good grief - you mean if I have a car I'm not allowed to dawdle??? I MUST proceed to the next village immediately??

Did you get out of the bus on that curvy road & visit the isolated little church perched on the peak of a small cliff next to the road???

I prefer to set my own schedule and stop at places I choose - not what/when the bus chooses.

Stu Dudley

swandav2000

For StuD,

No, I haven't ever been to that part of the country but did find those schedules at the Swiss rail site.

Hey, you're the one who said you got done with a village in 40 minutes, hee hee! I couldn't even get started in 40 minutes. Too many trails to explore, back alleys to wander, etc. I also like to bike an area.

Yes yes, I know that tendancy to "independance" from a schedule. Well, we each have our priorities.

s

suze

There is no need to rent a car to see Switzerland. Some people LIKE to drive & that's OK... but it absolutely is not necessary for an enjoyable experience.

PalenQ

All those places are easily reached by train - even Mont Saint-Michel with a bus from Rennes train station.

Trains are fantastic in these countries - for a good look at trains in these countries i always recommend two sites that have much more than the usual railpass rates and an add to cart button - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - the latter you can download their free European Planning & Rail Guide that has chapters with itinerary planners, rail maps, etc for each of the three countries. I would strongly look at the Eurail Select Saver Pass, good in France, Switzerland and Austria as a good deal for these plans. buy it from any travel agent in Australia or online from Rail Europe in Australia - i think they must have service there. Or STA travel offices.

LLindaC

stu dudley ...Hi! We were in the Val D'Anniviers and we are doing the Val D'herens next year. I would have made a mess in my hiking pants if I had to drive. We took the postal buses evrywhere using our Swiss passes. You can also take lifts up to the higher places such as above St. Luc...just check the schedules. In May, the lift up to Moiry Dam from Zinal was not open.

I completely agree that Geneva is BO-RING, though I liked it many years ago. The area around Montreux...the wine region along the lake and the cute towns is great, however. We love rural Switzerland and the beauty of it all. However, I am nervous in the car and have had NO trouble in Switzerland and Austria taking trains and buses.