beph03

Hello I should have posted this together. I at first was going to do France and then Italy, but realized it should be together on one post. So sorry if I double over on people

I have been asking the gods of fodors (you wonderful people ) for advice, and I have received some wonderful tips and to that I am thankful. As I am winding down on the planning and finalizing an itinerary I wanted to get some last minute tips and advice.

Please critique as you wish (thats why I am here) and feel free to suggest any changes. I have come a looooong way from thinking I was going to do everything (i believe i listed about 6 countries I wanted to go to, hehe) and think this is pretty good.
HERE WE GO:
NY to Paris overnight flight leave on 8/12 arrive at 7:35 AM on 8/13
Paris 8/13 - 8/17 (4 nights)
Normandy/Mont St Michel 8/17-8/18 (1 night)
{or add a night to Paris and do a day trip to Normandy MSM}
Train to Lake Como 8/18-8/20 (2 nights)
Train to Venice 8/20-8/22 (2 nights)
Train to Florence 8/22-8/24 (2 nights)
Train to Pisa 8/24-8/25 (1 night)
Train to Rome 8/25 - 8/28 (3 nights)
Fly to Dublin 8/28 (3 nights)
Fly to NY 8/31

All of the flights are set: so I can not change flying in on the 12/13 and leaving Rome on the 28. We are stopping in Dublin because the only FF flight we could get had a layover there so we decided to extend it for a few days (we have been to Ireland so this is going to be full of pints and wandering around the city).

So basically we have 15 days in France/Italy before heading out to Dublin. No hotels have been booked as of yet - so if things needed to be altered it def. could be.

Possibly staying in Cinque Terra as opposed to Lake Como?
Changing the order of the cities in Italy?
Going out to Normandy/MSM the day we get to Paris as opposed to the end of our Paris stay?

Thanks so much (This is also our honeymoon)

I am forever grateful to the people at Fodor's - you are all wonderful

beph03

whoops forgot we had decided on day trip to Pisa

ammended:
Paris 8/13 - 8/17 (4 nights)
Normandy/Mont St Michel 8/17-8/18 (1 night)
Train to Lake Como 8/18-8/20 (2 nights)
Train to Venice 8/20-8/22 (2 nights)
Train to Florence 8/22-8/24 (3 nights)
{day trip to Pisa}
Train to Rome 8/25 - 8/28 (3 nights)
Fly to Dublin 8/28 (3 nights)
Fly to NY 8/31

bobthenavigator

I would till drop MSM and Pisa---too much travel time and I hate one niters.

beph03

bob - so you wouldn't even do them as day trips? It is a lot of travel to MSM - would you ditch Normandy beaches also?

beph03

attempting to book rooms for Paris. Most I have seen online have you send a booking request and then they get back to you...does this seem right? Is it better to book through a priceline/orbitz type site or directly through the hotel?

THANKS

beph03

we are booking the:
BEAUGRENELLE SAINT CHARLES HOTEL
http://www.hotelbeaugralize.com/beau...e/en/index.tpl

anyone know if it, or have stayed there. It's in the 7th ar.

bobthenavigator

I have never been to MSM because it seemed too far for a day trip. Pisa can be done from Florence but I would much prefer Siena. My overall comment is the total time spent in transport as a percent of time in Europe. I try hard to make the next destination a max of 4 hours from the last one. I would skip Normandy and fly from Paris to Venice.

nessundorma

I disliked Siena and adored Pisa. It's really quite an idiosyncratic thing. The Duomo in Pisa is spectacular, as are the other monuments of Pisa, including the astonishingly beautiful tower. Fair warning: most of the area immediately surrounding the monuments is colonized by vendors selling THE tackiest tourist souvenirs I have ever seen. In August, it must be the pits!!!

But I found medieval Siena and its dark, ominous and lacking in the kind of bright, light-filled uplift I so love about the Renaissance. And the narrow streets were jam-packed with tourists.

But you needn't decide until you get to Firenze.

But it would also make sense for you to skip Pisa in favor of adding a night to Roma.

beph03

Bob. and Ness. thanks again for the input...as always continuing to do research. We were thinking of flying down to Italy from Paris...not sure if we would waste time in the airport...and/or if it would be nice to see the countryside?

we are debating if we should do Lake Como or Cinque Terra, as I do not think we could fly down to Lake Como area. Any thoughts?

THANKS

beph03

ness.
got your post from my other thread from when I had NO idea where to go ;-)

"If you choose carefully in Lago di Como, you can find romance, peace and quiet. That is much harder to find in Cinque Terre at the height of August -- when not only foreigners but Italians are battling to jam themselves into all the same beaches. The tiny Five Towns (Cinque Terre) really can't handle the amount of tourism they've attracted. The Lakes are a bit more used to it and capacious. You can still find lonely strolls, even in peak season.

And trying to get to the Italian Riviera pushes you way west, which means added wear and tear.

Since you are interested in going to Venice, I saw go for the lakes. Lago di Como is the beauty spot. I'll recommend Eremo Gaudio for accomodations, although they may be booked up. Dig around on the web for peaceful B&Bs, and ask on the Slow Travel website for help if you don't find something."

thanks a bunch. would you suggest flying to venice -> train to lake como ->train to florence->train to Rome

or what we originally had with training everywhere and go paris, lake como, venice, florence, rome?

we are really open to the order, whichever makes the most sense...the only hotel we have booked is Paris thus far....

THANKS

nessundorma

If the train goes through Switzerland on a sunny day, that would be fun.

It's hard to judge about whether one saves time by flying. There are now more airports than before, and trains connecting to airports. On the other hand, one has to wait longer to get through security. Plus most people find airports stressful and less romantic than train stations.

I will tell you though that Italy really rewards those who pick few destinations and really explores just those few as opposed to doing a lot of sightseeing in a variety of famous places. What one treasures about Italian vacations is the feeling of discovery something purely Italian and out-of-the-way. That is harder to find if you hurry along trying to get to the next famous sight.

An aimless walk on the other side of the River Arno, where most tourists don't go, can be more memorable than standing in a crowd of tourists somepleace else taking the same photo everybody else is taking.

nessundorma

oops -- we've been typing at the same time.

My general advice is:

Don't be afraid to slow down and skip the tourist spots.

Don't feel obliged to forego something you have dreamed all your life of seeing.

But if you are choosing Lago di Como or the Riviera because you've heard they are worth seeing, even though it isn't your life dream to see them, I suggest that you focus more on going to destinations that mean something personally to you, and taking time to explore them.

beph03

i am starting to understand this the more I look into planning this vacation It is better to slooooooow down and enjoy where you are

nessundorma

Exactly. Epecially in August.

Don't underestimate how a sudden severe heat wave will make you want to be someplace other than a boat dock or a overloaded train to the beach -- and inside a cool, dark church or caffe instead!

In Italy, it is extremely easy to make spur of the moment plans. You go to Venice and HATE the crowds? Get on a train and to to Treviso or Lago di Como, or a boat and go to Torcello. If you are in Firenze and it is boiling, take a train to the coast and have a dip.

But if you lock yourself into "on Tuesday it's the lake, on Wednesday it's the museum" then the weather can trip you up.

Believe me, sitting for an hour in a 13th century piazza ANYWHERE in Italy is a cultural education. You don't have to see the 5 star "sights" every minute.

JandaO

Ness,
<Believe me, sitting for an hour in a 13th century piazza ANYWHERE in Italy is a cultural education. You don't have to see the 5 star "sights" every minute.>

That is so true.
Have a few must sees then sit and savor the moment. You will lose this if you have too much planned. Spend a few days in one place and get to know it alittle.
So much more enjoyable. Personally I would rather know 4 places really well, than 8 only a little.

beph03

brb comp prob

beph03

sorry my comp just shut down on me and i had to call dell.

We are very open to suggestions and have not planned specific things for certain days. All we want to plan is where we are sleeping

Should we get rid of Lake Como and stay the extra nights elswhere?

nessundorma

Yes, tack one night onto Venice and another onto Rome.

nessundorma

PS: If you find yourself wanting to escape from Venice and just relax, take a boat to Torcello (have a drink at Locando Cipriani but also see the churc) and stroll around Burano.

In Rome, just find a gelateria and/or a pizza with a fountain, and relax. Museums are cool places, too.

But you are likely to find yourself fascinated by the back alleys of both Venezia and Roma, and the cool interiors of churches, and will be glad you gave yourself the extra 24 hours in each place.

beph03

hm....was thinking we would like the relaxing at Lake Como....but now I am thinking of sleeping in a lil later and not running all over and just enjoying our time....