wandering_gal -

you've already got 5 nights in Paris, [gives you 4 days]

Nice for 3 nights [to give you 2 days]

Rome, [the Vatican in in Rome but you need a day minimum to see the Basilica and the museums] Florence, and Venice - for which you would need a minimum of 2 days each, and that's REALLY rushed.

Bottom line, you haven't got time to go anywhere else. Many here would say that even this timetable is unrealistically full, taking account of the time it takes to get from one place to another [minimum 1/2 day each time you move].

personally if i were travelling in late autumn/winter I'd forget about Nice, and fly from Paris to Venice, ending in Rome.

then [assuming you have 14 nights] you could do this:

Day 1 - fly into Paris. [5 nights]
Day 6 - fly to Venice [3 nights]
Day 9 - train to Florence [2 nights]
Day 11 - train to Rome [4 nights]
Day 15 - fly home.

5 nights/4 days in Paris gives you time to recover from jetlag, but you could always borrow a day to add to Rome, where you only have 3 days, minus the time it will take you to get there from Florence.

hope this helps!

annhig,

do you really I should just consider Nice for my next visit (2nd trip to France)???

I would really want to visit at least 3 countries. I have 1 month vacation from work so I can always extend the 2 weeks trip.

do you suggest for me to visit venice and florence instead of choosing one? Y cant i just go to Rome from France via train? maybe cheaper.

really appreciate it if you can help me with this.

tnx much.

How about flying into Amsterdam, taking the train to Paris, taking an overnight train to Venice, then Florence, and Rome -- flying home?

If Amsterdam doesn't appeal to you, then you can land at the airport in Amsterdam and easily take a train right to Antwerpen in Belgium. It's a great small city for young people with great food, beer and chocolates (and fashion). Then off to Paris by train (you could visit Bruges, too, on the way).

Last but not least, fly to Paris, train to Venice, then Florence, Rome and then a flight to Barcelona from Rome, then home from Barcelona. Personally I don't care for Barcelona, but other people like it.

All that said, if you've never been to Paris or Italy, you may not realize how frustrating and sometimes confusing it can be to be in a great European city like Rome or Paris for just a few nights. You can end up hurrying past a whole lot of things you didn't realize were there that you wish you could spend more time with.

Sometimes if you are going to plan a kind of "hopscotch" trip in Europe, trying to get the feeling of the different cultures, it can be easier if you pick smaller cities. So going to Amsterdam-Florence-Barcelona, or Antwerpen-Dijon-Venice .... Dublin-Munich-Naples ... you get the idea.

But if you pick the big cities, do really good research and pick a few gems you want to see, but it can also be helpful give yourself a whole afternoon or more to walk around looking and noticing today's cities, beyond sightseeing .

Strongly advise you against lat fall or winter for several reasons:

1) days are shorter - cutting into sightseeing time
2) many sights re open shorter hours - ditto
3) weather can be chilly or cold and depending on where you go there is chance of sleet or snow - which will make sightseeing more difficult
4) while european hotels have heat - it might not be similar to what you are used to in the US (especially in older buildings they have less heat in the winter and less AC in midsummer than you may be used to)

Oct should be fine Or April/May (longer days and better weather, but still smaller crowds and the chance for hotel discounts).

As to where to go - you need to decide what you want to see much - but you should know in Nov/Dec countryside will be brown and crunchy and not much to look at. Cities will be fine and you should plan on training to taking budget airlines depending on schedules.

For major cities (Paris, Rome I would allow 4 full days - 5 nights) and for smaller cities (Venice, Florence) I would allow 3 days (4 nights). While Nice is a fascinating city the Riviera is not pleasant that time of year - with chilly weather and often very strong winds (Mistral) which can be extremely irritating. I would definitely leave the Riviera for better weather.

I disagree with the rec that you not go in Fall or Winter. One big advantage is far fewer crowds at major sites. My last two trips to Paris were over Thanksgiving (late Nov) and over Christmas. Yes, at Christmas there was some snow and some sleety, snowy rain. But, it didn't prevent us from going anywhere or doing anything we wanted. Umbrella, scarf, good boots and we were fine.

So what if they days are shorter? The monuments are lit up and it's nice to see. The day doesn't end because the sun is down. Also, in late November and Dec, Christmas markets are up and open. Gives you a different way to exoerience Europe. If not, vin chaud in a cafe is a great way to warm up.

Yeah, if you can't deal with any cold at all, then skip it. I worried about the cold interfering with our enjoyment of the trip but found that it didn't dampen our spirits at all. Certainly, it's an individual choice but I think to recommend avoiding Fall & Winter isn't sound advice.

See "Paris Glitters" T/R for another traveller's view on why being afraid of December cold weather is unfounded.

Good grief. Millions of people travel all around Europe every year during fall and winter and have a wonderful time and enjoy every minute. Right now it in the 60s and dry in Rome.

Today's European heat is every bit as good as NYC heat -- in fact, in can be more pleasant than in some of the extremely overheated stores, hotels and restaurants in NYC. How long has it been since some Fodor's posters traveled to Europe period, let alone traveled in fall or winter?

I fear that many people who "advise" on Fodor's about fall or winter travel have never done it themselves. Or maybe it's the case they are just generally irritable people who stress out on their trips over the slightest things.

How about it Nytraveler: Honesty time. Please tell us exactly which winter it was you were on the Riviera? You usually post that all your long-ago trips were in May.

Today, in Nice, it is 60 degrees, sunny, with winds at 4km per hour.

wandering gal,

I forgot why I clicked back on this thread I got so annoyed. I wanted to add that Verona is a really lovely destination to experience Italy if you don't have time to take on Rome.

Sometimes it can be fun to look at features in newspapers online like the Guardian travel section's "Short-breaks" feature or the NYTimes "36 hours in ...." to get an idea which smaller European cities can be delightful for 3 days --- Nice, Sevilla, Verona, Strasbourg, Antwerp, Porto, Dijon, Bologna -- even Vienna or Copenhagen or Prague.

The most logical third country for that short of time would be switzerland, now a Schengen country I believe as of last year. By train Switzerland is smack about half-way between Paris and say Venice or Florence - the fabled Jungfrau Region is about half-way - in and around Interlaken - great for a few days and the essence of the glacier-girdled Alpine wonderland etched perhaps in your minds' eyes.

For lots of great info on train travel on that route and in France and Italy I always spotlight these IMO superb sites - www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - these have great info on the Jungfrua Region and trains in all 3 countries.

wandering-gal,

of course you may have good weather in Nice this time of year, but also you might not. but the main problem is getting from there to Italy, if you want to go by train - if you look at bahn.de [yes, i know it's the german train website, but it's very good for looking at all european routes] you'll see that you are likely to have to change at least twice to get to Rome, and 4 times to get to Venice.

Amsterdam could also be cold and wet - or it could be lovely - who knows? if you fancy it, and it fits into your itinerary, why not? but if you potentially have longer for the trip, Pal's idea of Switzerland seems to me to be the most attractive 3rd option so far.

Dear All,

all of your comments are great! you guys are awesome.

goldenautumn, Amsterdam is a great option-mainly because i wanna try to smoke weed hahaha. However my friend, who is going to accompany me in this trip is in Paris and for the schegen visa I need to enter the Country where I applied for and stay the longest (visa from French Embassy).PLus, il be like going north then south again for Italy. But its an Option. Prague and Vienna sounds amazing.

Nytraveler, I wouldnt mind the cold weather. I live in Dubai (not not from here) and Im sick of the sun!! but thanks for the insight.

Denisea, I agree. I will definitely check "Paris Glitters"

PalenQ, Switzerland sounds great and thanks for sharing that site.

Annhig, you are ryt, i really have to plan it well, especially transportation wise. flying from one european country to another is not really an option, train is more like it. It saves me more money and my ears dont have to deal with the air pressure on flight.

All, can you suggest a which european country offers the best range of great tasting FOOD!!! I love Italian, plus Italy is already in the list so no Italy. But if you guys have been to Italy please, i beg you suggest me a restaurant with epic food. Last great food I ate was a superb Ramen in Japan, until now im still dreaming abt it.

another thing, i really enjoy a country when people are nice. That is what I like about Japanese and dont like abt HK citizens.

Happy Holidays Guys!

As to the time of year, I have been to Europe six times and the first five were in the fall. The first time was the beginning of November and the other four were September and October. The best time I liked was the middle two weeks of September. My last trip was for six weeks and started the end of March and ended the beginning of May. I MUCH prefer the spring, as mentioned the days are longer and that really does mean something and I felt the weather was better. I would recommend May and June and the number of tourists will not be as high as July and August.

5 nights in Paris is fine(longer is better), I question even going to Nice. There are other places in France I would spend a couple of days. I would think there are more than enough things to do in Italy for the balance of the time.

People in Italy are usually very nice, even in tourist areas. I have had some bad experiences with people in Paris, but DD was there this September and had good experiences. When you get out of the major cities usually people are very nice. If you are friendly and say something pleasant they usually respond.

You say you want to visit three countries, but need to spend more time in France. You could go to Provence on your way south, and work your way down to Rome by train, stopping in a couple of places on the way. Take a look at the schedules and see what appeals to you. The Italian Riviera is very pretty.

We were in Rome recently and fell in love with Glass Hosteria. Many people on the forum and a few I follow on Twitter have recently given Metamorfosi high praise. Check Elizabeth Minchilli's apps Eat Rome and Eat Florence....excellent and eay to use.